Bucks 2022-2023 Season Thread

[adambr2]

6 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

 

I still think the Bucks win this series - it took an all time playoff performance from Jimmy Buckets to eek out a win at home in Game 4, and it's not like the Heat have got key players coming back to take the load off.  Wouldn't surprise me in the least for the Bucks to win game 5 at home, blow the doors of Miami in game 6, and cruise to a game 7 series win.  I think if the Heat do win this series that Bud is going to get canned, and rightfully so.

Why do we always do this? I don't mean you specifically or even this board in general, but everyone always seems to feel the need to rationalize a loss against what they feel is an inferior opponent.

Game 1, oh, it took 60% shooting from 3 to pull it off. THAT isn't happening again. Just a fluke. 

Game 4, oh, it took an otherworldly performance by their star to pull it off. 

I don't know what the rationalizations were in Game 3, but I'm sure they were there. Maybe there are far too many variables in an NBA game to be able to simplify a result down to "as long as THAT doesn't happen again, we'll be fine."

The Heat have kicked our butts this series, there's no benefit in trying to explain it away, it has happened. I'm not saying they can't win the next 3, they can, (although it's simply a mathematical improbability), but it won't be by hoping for Miami to stop doing what they've done. 

Has anyone at all considered the possibility that maybe the Heat are a lot better than what we thought or expected? This team was the #1 seed in the East last year. The Heat, not us, faced the Celtics in the conference finals. Yeah we steamrolled them in '21, but they did the same to us in '20, and much of the core of that team is still here. I realize the Heat haven't had a great year, but an 82 game snapshot with so many variables is not always an absolutely perfect representation of the talent level of a team. 

Perhaps the team, just like us, was excitedly looking ahead not only past this round but the next one, and are paying dearly for treating this round like a tuneup and not focusing on the task at hand.

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

Why do we always do this? I don't mean you specifically or even this board in general, but everyone always seems to feel the need to rationalize a loss against what they feel is an inferior opponent.

Game 1, oh, it took 60% shooting from 3 to pull it off. THAT isn't happening again. Just a fluke. 

Game 4, oh, it took an otherworldly performance by their star to pull it off. 

I don't know what the rationalizations were in Game 3, but I'm sure they were there. Maybe there are far too many variables in an NBA game to be able to simplify a result down to "as long as THAT doesn't happen again, we'll be fine."

The Heat have kicked our butts this series, there's no benefit in trying to explain it away, it has happened. I'm not saying they can't win the next 3, they can, (although it's simply a mathematical improbability), but it won't be by hoping for Miami to stop doing what they've done. 

Has anyone at all considered the possibility that maybe the Heat are a lot better than what we thought or expected? This team was the #1 seed in the East last year. The Heat, not us, faced the Celtics in the conference finals. Yeah we steamrolled them in '21, but they did the same to us in '20, and much of the core of that team is still here. I realize the Heat haven't had a great year, but an 82 game snapshot with so many variables is not always an absolutely perfect representation of the talent level of a team. 

Perhaps the team, just like us, was excitedly looking ahead not only past this round but the next one, and are paying dearly for treating this round like a tuneup and not focusing on the task at hand.

The best player in the league basically didn't play in the 1st 3 games because of injury, and the Bucks' roster is no longer deep enough to cope with that loss against any playoff-caliber team in a playoff series - I don't really have to come up with any other rationalization or combination of variables as to why the Bucks are up against the wall against any team in the playoffs with that being the case.  Even with key pieces injured, the Heat are a better 8 seed than typical NBA playoff teams because of what you detailed, but that doesn't also make the Bucks a weak #1 seed in a pretty darn deep conference - in case you haven't noticed, Boston has their hands full against ATL in a round 1 series that could also go 7 games.  The 76ers swept a diminished Nets squad post Durant and Kyrie trades, but two of those games could've easily gone the other way, too and made that a dicey series for Philly.

Game 3 was a whooping and Game 1's final score looked worse than where that game was in crunch time despite Giannis going down.  The Bucks spit the bit when it mattered most in game 4 and let Butler win that game on his own - I think in order for the Heat to win another game this series Butler will have to go crazy again.  If Bud can't come up with a defensive game plan to hold Jimmy Buckets below 40 then they don't deserve to even make it to game 6.  One of the Bucks' supposed strengths this season was their defense - and it hasn't shown up at all against the Heat.  This isn't the NBA from a generation ago, when it was a shock for an 8 seed to even win one game against 1 seeds in a best of 5 series format - there is much more balance across the league, and the wide open style of play also levels the playing field.

 

[adambr2]

A week ago all I heard was, the Heat stink, nothing to see here, no contest, etc. etc. The only debate was whether or not Boston could beat us. 

Now it's, well, the Heat aren't your typical 8 seed, there's a lot more balance in the league, conference is really deep. 

[CheezWizHed]

13 hours ago, adambr2 said:

A week ago all I heard was, the Heat stink, nothing to see here, no contest, etc. etc. The only debate was whether or not Boston could beat us. 

Now it's, well, the Heat aren't your typical 8 seed, there's a lot more balance in the league, conference is really deep. 

From what I've read, if you took the thread as a whole and ignored who said it... yes, that was about it.  If you looked at individuals posts (allowing for an adjustment with Giannis' injury), people have been pretty consistent.  Just like how you generally take the pessimistic approach to everything. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

14 hours ago, adambr2 said:

A week ago all I heard was, the Heat stink, nothing to see here, no contest, etc. etc. The only debate was whether or not Boston could beat us. 

Now it's, well, the Heat aren't your typical 8 seed, there's a lot more balance in the league, conference is really deep. 

Since most of this thread dating back to early this year has been a back and forth between 3-4 other posters and not me, I'll take your word for it.  Your summary is not how I've seen the NBA playoffs shaping up, because I put next to zero stock in what happens during the regular season anymore.  There have also been plenty of takes revolving around how much deeper and more difficult the eastern conference playoff field appeared to be shaping up, primarily because there really wasn't an alpha-dog team that was clearly more talented and deep than the rest - much was made about the race to the top seed, but all that really does is guarantee 1 extra home game in any 7 game playoff series.  Not really that significant with more evenly matched teams.

Collectively, the conference (and the NBA as a whole) is much more balanced than its been in quite awhile because its prime talent is much more spread out - IMO that's largely because the group of veterans who started the super team roster building approach in the current NBA financial system are all getting old yet still are crazy expensive, so the younger talent in its prime seeking initial max initial extensions aren't teaming up at the rate like the Lebron/Wade/Bosh Heat of the Curry/KD/Klay Warriors rosters, because they're aren't as many teams with enormous amounts of cap space to recruit instant all start teams.

With how the NBA game has changed (style of play, load management, etc) and with the play-in format, regular season and postseason basketball are dramatically different.  Hoping for a game 5 win in any way/shape/form to see what happens with another trip to Miami.

[adambr2]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

From what I've read, if you took the thread as a whole and ignored who said it... yes, that was about it.  If you looked at individuals posts (allowing for an adjustment with Giannis' injury), people have been pretty consistent.  Just like how you generally take the pessimistic approach to everything. 

Meh, I'm sure there's some truth in this but I don't entirely agree; I absolutely do tend to be more on the emotional side, both positively and negatively depending on the tide. I stated several times that I thought it was us or Boston and nobody else, I certainly wasn't pessimistic going into this series or ever dream we'd be staring at a 3-1 deficit.  It is what it is. I hope we can win tonight and go from there. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

17 hours ago, adambr2 said:

A week ago all I heard was, the Heat stink, nothing to see here, no contest, etc. etc. The only debate was whether or not Boston could beat us. 

Now it's, well, the Heat aren't your typical 8 seed, there's a lot more balance in the league, conference is really deep. 

You can't pretend like Giannis being out wasn't a huge factor here. It was massive. But they're all professionals. Once they're up 2-1, getting out alive is just a lot more plausible for them. At that point it was pretty much win Game 4 and this is all but over. And they needed Butler to go full MJ AND the Bucks to just completely implode in unbelievable fashion. 

I'm not even going to concede the Heat are better than anybody thought. I'll repeat what I've repeated:

It's completely inexcusable for the Bucks to lose this series, ESPECIALLY with the losses of Herro and Oladipo. All I can say about them is that they're more like your typical 6 seed than an 8. 

TLDR: People should have been looking past the Heat. The Bucks should have (I guess still could) beat them. It's a catastrophic failure of execution if they don't; it doesn't invalidate the 82-game sample of what the Heat are.

[adambr2]

3 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

You can't pretend like Giannis being out wasn't a huge factor here. It was massive. But they're all professionals. Once they're up 2-1, getting out alive is just a lot more plausible for them. At that point it was pretty much win Game 4 and this is all but over. And they needed Butler to go full MJ AND the Bucks to just completely implode in unbelievable fashion. 

I'm not even going to concede the Heat are better than anybody thought. I'll repeat what I've repeated:

It's completely inexcusable for the Bucks to lose this series, ESPECIALLY with the losses of Herro and Oladipo. All I can say about them is that they're more like your typical 6 seed than an 8. 

TLDR: People should have been looking past the Heat. The Bucks should have (I guess still could) beat them. It's a catastrophic failure of execution if they don't; it doesn't invalidate the 82-game sample of what the Heat are.

Fans can look past the Heat all they want, players shouldn't. It absolutely may have contributed to the position they're in now. 

An 82 game sample, again, isn't always indicative of a team's true talent level. There's obviously a correlation, but it's not perfect. There are too many variables. You don't just go from the 1 seed to the 8 seed in a year with most of the same core just because you suddenly suck. They outperformed their talent level last year and underperformed it this year. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm gonna avoid this one. Another loss is embarrassing and a win is just a small step. Think I'll save myself the investment and just hope I wake up at 1am to decent news. 

I still think they can do this but that's probably my own denial. 

[BruisedCrew]

Bucks being put out of their misery as the Heat continues to drain triples at will. 

[adambr2]

Look, I'm sorry, but win or lose this game, I can't understand how there are those that refuse to give the Heat their due on the way this series has gone. Middleton and Giannis are on pace for about 40 each and we're still losing. On our court.

[adambr2]

I like the way this game is trending...but I liked where we were with 5 minutes left on Tuesday, so we'll see. 

[nate82]

Middleton showed up today.

[adambr2]

https://youtu.be/B6tCAeDyjVg

[nate82]

This team just loves chucking up bad shot after bad shot.  It is like they do this for 4 minutes until they go back to running plays again.

[adambr2]

3 minutes ago, nate82 said:

This team just loves chucking up bad shot after bad shot.  It is like they do this for 4 minutes until they go back to running plays again.

A sign of very bad coaching. 

[BruisedCrew]

The fourth quarter is not the Bucks thing. 
 

How can a team of professionals playing with a 24 second clock score only 6 points in 9 minutes. 

[BruisedCrew]

Proving that Monday’s choke was no fluke. 

[adambr2]

Giannis, bro, make a freaking free throw in crunch time. 

 

You're supposed to be the best player in the world, act like it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Vincent is Fred Van Fleet. It's just getting ridiculous. The guy is a total pumpkin for 82 and he's been a nightmare this series..

[adambr2]

Absolutely stupid to make the 2nd free throw if you miss the 1st.

[BruisedCrew]

It would be very fitting to lose this game and the series because of a missed free-throw and a three-point shot at the buzzer.

[SeaBass]

Yep, miss the first and the prayer beats you no matter what.

[BruisedCrew]

1 minute ago, adambr2 said:

Absolutely stupid to make the 2nd free throw if you miss the 1st.

Except that they grab the rebound, call timeout and get the ball in the front court anyway. 

[adambr2]

Just now, BruisedCrew said:

Except that they grab the rebound, call timeout and get the ball in the front court anyway. 

They're taking a 3 either way, and that entire sequence doesn't happen in a tenth of a second, if they even get the rebound. They're probably inbounding with 1 second at best.