Wisconsin Basketball 2022-23

[yourout]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

This team has zero depth. We need Wahl against Penn State or things could really start to go downhill.

Also, to help shake things up, Gard needs to bench Davis and start Essegian. 

+1...this was a year Gard really needed to hit the portal for another big that could at least eat a few minutes and play defense.

Less than zero depth.

[Jim French Stepstool]

55 minutes ago, yourout said:

+1...this was a year Gard really needed to hit the portal for another big that could at least eat a few minutes and play defense.

Less than zero depth.

He tried. Vander Plas had Virginia as his #1 destination pretty much from the get-go, and that's where he wound up. Grant Basile, from what I understand, wanted assurances of how he'd be used & minutes, which would've resulted in Wahl playing majority minutes at the 3, which wouldn't have been good on either end of the floor. The kid from Brookfield East who wound up at Colorado State wanted to come to UW. If he was here he'd score more than Gilmore but give up that much & more on the other end (think a weaker, less physical Ilver. If that's even possible). There were a few 5-man types that weren't very good & wouldn't be able to play in tandem with Crowl anyway.

Bottom line, they need Wahl back, or needed Ben Carlson to stay.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

 

Also, to help shake things up, Gard needs to bench Davis and start Essegian. 

I thought the same thing, mostly due to the fact Essegian is starting to get more comfy on the defensive end. Obviously his offense is superior to Davis. If Gard thinks it'll help the team get off to better starts in some of these games I'm all for it. He's been getting starter minutes anyway but it might be time. Of course then you have to hope Davis handles it well because he becomes a guy you need to come off the bench & do good things.

Jordans' best games are when he stuffs the stat sheet with some of the ancillary stuff---a couple steals, moves the ball on offense, gets to the rim a little, rebounds defensively w/maybe a putback or two & guards in the half court. A "quiet" 8 or 9 pts. A lot of that has been missing lately.

[Brewcrew82]

I’m a huge Gard supporter (anyone who thinks his job is or should be in jeopardy at this point is insane). But he’s gotta quit it with these one man recruiting classes like in 2019 and 2022. That’s absolutely killing our depth right now when you combine it with the transfers from Carlson, Bowman, and Mors and Davis leaving early for the draft.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I’m a huge Gard supporter (anyone who thinks his job is or should be in jeopardy at this point is insane). But he’s gotta quit it with these one man recruiting classes like in 2019 and 2022. That’s absolutely killing our depth right now when you combine it with the transfers from Carlson, Bowman, and Mors and Davis leaving early for the draft.

 The above people you mentioned who left are the main culprit for the lack of depth right now (you can add Kobe King to the list. Theoretically, if he stays & takes a covid year he's still here). Even if Johnny Davis hadn't blown up like he did as a sophomore, which you couldn't anticipate....... you'd still have a challenge with depth in the frontcourt but you're talking about someone scoring 20ppg instead of 6. that covers a lot of ills. 

[Samurai Bucky]

What we have seen the last few games is what happens when the smoke and mirrors are removed.

[Brewcrew82]

6 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

What we have seen the last few games is what happens when the smoke and mirrors are removed.

I would say a good portion of it also has to do with our best player being removed.

[Oxy]

The team was thin and lost its best player. Obviously, one could say the team is thin because the staff didn't recruit well enough the last few years.  That's probably a somewhat fair statement. The next 3 recruiting classes are looking very good, however, so the lapse should be temporary.  Also, with the portal things can change FAST.

If the team wins enough with whenever Wahl comes back then this losing stretch will likely be forgiven.  If not, UW could be sweating on Selection Sunday.  Gard has earned a lot of leash though. B1G titles and COY awards don't happen with smoke and mirrors.

[MrTPlush]

Greg Gard feels a lot like the basketball version of PC. Tries to win with defense and brutally stale/boring offense. Like PC, I don’t think Greg Gard is a bad coach…but I don’t think he is anything special.

I don’t think he should be on the hot seat because he does nicely in the regular season (pretty sad results in March though) for what he has. The football team might be able to attract an exciting coach to come in, but the basketball team isn’t doing that. You won’t find an obvious upgrade even if you don’t like him.

[Oxy]

About as expected.  This game is an L w/o Wahl. Particularly after Klesmit went down. Luckily for UW there are no world beaters in the B1G this year, so merely being above average and playing smart with great PG and C play and solid defense should get the job done more often than not.  But the margin is thin.

Impressed with Micah Shrewsberry.  PSU doesn't beat themselves.

[Brewcrew82]

2 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Greg Gard feels a lot like the basketball version of PC. Tries to win with defense and brutally stale/boring offense. Like PC, I don’t think Greg Gard is a bad coach…but I don’t think he is anything special.

I don’t think he should be on the hot seat because he does nicely in the regular season (pretty sad results in March though) for what he has. The football team might be able to attract an exciting coach to come in, but the basketball team isn’t doing that. You won’t find an obvious upgrade even if you don’t like him.

Bad comparison. Gard has won BIG championships 2/3 years. PC never won a BIG championship, and had some pretty big meltdowns in BIG championship games.

As for tournament success, he’s been to two Sweet 16s. People said the same exact thing about Bo Ryan not being able to succeed in March until the back to back final 4 teams.

[Brewcrew82]

This is a good team with Wahl. 12-2 now overall, including 4-0 in conference play.

Without Wahl, not so good….

We’ll see if the game is even played on Saturday. Either Northwestern will be very short handed, or Wahl and Klesmit will get some more time to recover.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Was at the game tonight. The difference with Wahl available is really astounding. Illinois---Coleman Hawkins gets hot; no defensive answer. MSU---Hauser gets hot; no defensive answer. Tuesday---Pickett is a thorn in the side all through the 1st half. Wahl switches on him in the 2nd & it's like night & day. He still got his, came reasonably close to a triple-double, but you could see how much harder PSU was made to work just to get a good shot. Hard to quantify Wahls' value just by looking at box scores.

Hepburn, again, in late-game situations on the defensive end. Sumthin' else.

More baby steps tonight for Essegian in the non-3pt shooting areas. He's really growing on the defensive end & is even looking to get in the paint at times. The 3pt shot Gard drew up for him out of the late TO........it's just killer stuff when you have a freshman who confidently drills something like that. And, I thought Davis did more good stuff than bad coming off the bench, which was a concern of mine.

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

 

We’ll see if the game is even played on Saturday. Either Northwestern will be very short handed, or Wahl and Klesmit will get some more time to recover.

They don't think it's going to happen Saturday according to Gard postgame. Apparently Sunday is still on the table.

[yourout]

5 hours ago, Oxy said:

About as expected.  This game is an L w/o Wahl. Particularly after Klesmit went down. Luckily for UW there are no world beaters in the B1G this year, so merely being above average and playing smart with great PG and C play and solid defense should get the job done more often than not.  But the margin is thin.

Impressed with Micah Shrewsberry.  PSU doesn't beat themselves.

Thats a decent Penn State team that will win some games.

[yourout]

5 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Bad comparison. Gard has won BIG championships 2/3 years. PC never won a BIG championship, and had some pretty big meltdowns in BIG championship games.

As for tournament success, he’s been to two Sweet 16s. People said the same exact thing about Bo Ryan not being able to succeed in March until the back to back final 4 teams.

It took some recruiting hits for Bo to take the next step with getting Sam and Bronson and Frank coming out of nowhere.

For Gard to take the next step its going to require more raw talent one way or another.

[MrTPlush]

10 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Bad comparison. Gard has won BIG championships 2/3 years. PC never won a BIG championship, and had some pretty big meltdowns in BIG championship games.

As for tournament success, he’s been to two Sweet 16s. People said the same exact thing about Bo Ryan not being able to succeed in March until the back to back final 4 teams.

The worst comparison is you comparing basketball championships to football championships like the difficulty achieving those is actually comparable feats. 

His only tourney success is with a roster still mostly Bo Ryan guys. Now that the roster is solidly his and only his he has missed the tourney half the time.

[stoutdude04]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

The worst comparison is you comparing basketball championships to football championships like the difficulty achieving those is actually comparable feats. 

His only tourney success is with a roster still mostly Bo Ryan guys. Now that the roster is solidly his and only his he has missed the tourney half the time.

Honest question.  Hasn't he only missed the tourny once?  

[MrTPlush]

48 minutes ago, stoutdude04 said:

Honest question.  Hasn't he only missed the tourny once?  

You are correct. I accidently took note of the COVID year...which every team in basketball missed.

[Brewcrew82]

8 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

The worst comparison is you comparing basketball championships to football championships like the difficulty achieving those is actually comparable feats. 

His only tourney success is with a roster still mostly Bo Ryan guys. Now that the roster is solidly his and only his he has missed the tourney half the time.

You’re probably right. Winning a BIG championship in basketball is definitely harder than winning in football. After all, in basketball, you have to face every team and play 20 games, whereas in football, you have only 9 games, with 6 of them being against the weak BIG West. So, that only helps demonstrate why Gard is a better coach than PC. If only PC hadn’t completely choked away his shot at a BIG title against Penn State in 2016…

As for his success being with “Bo Ryan’s guys”, the 2015-2016 team that Bo left him suffered Ls to the likes of Western Illinois and Milwaukee, and was nowhere near the tournament picture. Gard completely turned that team around and brought them to the brink of the Elite Eight if Nigel Hayes doesn’t decide to break a press by himself. That was all Greg Gard. Not to mention that Bo had pretty much delegated all recruiting efforts to Gard and co. by the end of his tenure, so I would argue they were Gard’s guys every bit as they were Bo’s.

They also were likely headed to the Sweet 16 at least last season before Chucky rolled his ankle. Who knows how deep they would have gone in 2020 with how hot that team was at the end. Bottom line is the tournament tends to be a crapshoot that comes down to how hot and healthy a team is. It was the same way for Bo until the Final Four teams.

”He’s missed the tourney half of the time”. That’s false. He missed it one season when two key players, including the starting PG, suffered season ending injuries.

Now, could Gard improve his recruiting and up the ceiling of this program to a whole new level? Yes he could. And there’s the opportunity to do that with some of the prospects we’re in on in the 2024-2025 classes. But to liken him to PC, who literally gave up on recruiting, just doesn’t square with reality.  

[Brewcrew82]

8 hours ago, yourout said:

It took some recruiting hits for Bo to take the next step with getting Sam and Bronson and Frank coming out of nowhere.

For Gard to take the next step it’s going to require more raw talent one way or another.

Agreed. Why I’m excited for the future of this team with Connor, Gus, and some of the prospects we’re heavily linked to in the 2024 and 2025 classes. But it’s up to Gard to close the deal.

[LouisEly]

Wahl was a little bit rusty the first half...

Hepburn needs to be more aggressive.  I've seen at least 3-4 possessions the last two games where he had a clear path to the basket from the perimeter and he didn't drive to the rim.  Seemed afraid, not sure if it is getting blocked or not knowing how to use his body to shield defenders from behind, but he has to attack the basket in those situations. 

[LouisEly]

On 1/14/2023 at 5:13 PM, Brewcrew82 said:

I’m a huge Gard supporter (anyone who thinks his job is or should be in jeopardy at this point is insane). But he’s gotta quit it with these one man recruiting classes like in 2019 and 2022. That’s absolutely killing our depth right now when you combine it with the transfers from Carlson, Bowman, and Mors and Davis leaving early for the draft.

I don't think they had the scholarships available those years for more than one.  They took five in 2020 and four in 2021 plus two transfers with >1 year of eligibility - that's 11 of 13 scholarships. 

Neath being injured also hurts the depth.  Hodges hasn't seen game action in two years - he redshirted last year and opted out of his 2020 senior year due to COVID.

[Oxy]

39 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

I don't think they had the scholarships available those years for more than one.  They took five in 2020 and four in 2021 plus two transfers with >1 year of eligibility - that's 11 of 13 scholarships. 

Neath being injured also hurts the depth.  Hodges hasn't seen game action in two years - he redshirted last year and opted out of his 2020 senior year due to COVID.

I love Gard, but it is fair to say he and the staff have missed on a fair number of recent recruits/transfers. Heck, Klesmit basically begged to come to UW and he's been one of the better additions in the last few years.  Mors, Hodges, Ilver, Carlson, Bowmen, Neath, Lindsey, and McGee have been so underwhelming that we have played a preferred WO-Gilmore- far more than any of those names (And it's not because Gilmore is a diamond in the rough).

Again, Gard is basically a miracle worker as far as working with what he's got, but with UWs success we should be able to attract some more talent.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Wahl was a little bit rusty the first half...

Hepburn needs to be more aggressive.  I've seen at least 3-4 possessions the last two games where he had a clear path to the basket from the perimeter and he didn't drive to the rim.  Seemed afraid, not sure if it is getting blocked or not knowing how to use his body to shield defenders from behind, but he has to attack the basket in those situations. 

I've felt this about Hepburn for awhile now. He isn't the type of PG that will get all the way to the cup on quickness alone, but has the strength & body type to do so if he can get people on his hip. Certainly way too many cases of finishing maybe 70% of the drive, then either having to make a tough pass in traffic or shoot the fallaway.

Looking forward to seeing Wahl get further removed from the injury & rebuild the endurance. Gard said he had no intention of playing him the minutes he did. He was the catalyst behind PSU scoring 24 pt in the second half, could've easily been only 19 or 20. His shots in the paint just haven't been falling with regularity this season, looking for that to balance out.