Wisconsin Basketball 2022-23

[MrTPlush]

13 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Wisconsin's Final Four teams were 332nd in pace of play (2013-2014) and 346th (2014-2015) in pace of play.  In 2014 they lost to Kentucky who was 193rd in pace of play, and in 2015 they lost to Duke who was 141st in pace of play.  You could have checked the link I provided...

Teams win championships because they are efficient - they score at a high % of their possessions.

I would have, if it would have been anywhere remotely close to being easy to search and find teams. I wasn't going to scroll through 360 teams to try and find each year's champion. If I could have searched by team, I would have done it. But honestly, I don't care enough about it to spend 6 hours just trying to scroll and find teams like I would have had to do in that link.

Not your fault...just why I didn't go and pile up results via that stat.

[Jim French Stepstool]

7 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Pace of play wasn't brought up as a factor in winning or losing, it was mentioned as a factor in attracting better talent.

The pace of play didn't seem to hinder them from reaching the back-to-back FFs. AND it didn't seem to keep them from recruiting very good talent, or they wouldn't have reached them.

Over the years I've seen them lose out on some talented players. Some of them even mentioned style of play as a factor. I've then seen UW go out & beat the teams these kids chose. It takes talent to do that. I'll agree, you always want to attract better & better players, but I really think there's an over-reaction here to the circumstances that have conspired to cause the current struggles.

For my money the kids they're recruiting in the '24 & '25 classes are way more than good enough. It's just a case of securing enough of them.

[LouisEly]

8 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

I would have, if it would have been anywhere remotely close to being easy to search and find teams. I wasn't going to scroll through 360 teams to try and find each year's champion. If I could have searched by team, I would have done it. But honestly, I don't care enough about it to spend 6 hours just trying to scroll and find teams like I would have had to do in that link.

Not your fault...just why I didn't go and pile up results via that stat.

It is easy to search and find teams - hit CTRL-F (or Command-F on a Mac).  A prompt will show up that will search the page for text.  Took me less than 10 seconds to find the teams.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

17 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

The pace of play didn't seem to hinder them from reaching the back-to-back FFs. AND it didn't seem to keep them from recruiting very good talent, or they wouldn't have reached them.

Over the years I've seen them lose out on some talented players. Some of them even mentioned style of play as a factor. I've then seen UW go out & beat the teams these kids chose. It takes talent to do that. I'll agree, you always want to attract better & better players, but I really think there's an over-reaction here to the circumstances that have conspired to cause the current struggles.

For my money the kids they're recruiting in the '24 & '25 classes are way more than good enough. It's just a case of securing enough of them.

The 1980's style of offense the football team has played since Barry Alvarez didn't hinder them from hanging with the big boys for a long time either. And yet suddenly they've decided to revamp the whole approach on that side. Kids they are a changing.

[MrTPlush]

19 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

The pace of play didn't seem to hinder them from reaching the back-to-back FFs. AND it didn't seem to keep them from recruiting very good talent, or they wouldn't have reached them.

Over the years I've seen them lose out on some talented players. Some of them even mentioned style of play as a factor. I've then seen UW go out & beat the teams these kids chose. It takes talent to do that. I'll agree, you always want to attract better & better players, but I really think there's an over-reaction here to the circumstances that have conspired to cause the current struggles.

For my money the kids they're recruiting in the '24 & '25 classes are way more than good enough. It's just a case of securing enough of them.

Greg Gard has secured plenty of guys and the team isn't good. The 2022 class was bad, but you wouldn't even expect those guys to be playing major minutes or contributing at all anyway yet.

2021 Class - A 4-star / three .9000+ rated 3-stars / three transfers.

2020 Class - A 4-star / two .9000+ 3-stars / two additional 3-stars

2019 Class - 3-star recruit and a notable transfer

Grabbing talent isn't an issue. Gard has arguably recruited more talent at face value than Bo Ryan had been. It isn't about securing enough of them...it is securing ones that are actually going to play well at the college level, developing them, and keeping them around. 

Honestly, I am surprised the Badgers have struggled as bad as they have. Their starting five are good basketball players and all of them have the ability to score. The bench isn't strong, but it is decent enough to not hurt a team. None of them have found the ability to consistently put up big points and they all are pretty good at having dud games. Crowl/Wahl/Hepburn are experienced enough that they shouldn't be losing 6/7 games.

[RobDeer 45]

What do you think is the biggest difference between the early season play and current play?  I'm hopping they can get off this skid tonight and play well.

[homer]

Virginia plays at a more deliberate pace than UW and it hasn't hurt their recruiting. Same with Houston 

[CheezWizHed]

I get that strong defense, deliberate offense isn't going to be all that "sexy" to the high end NBA one-and-done recruits, but that really isn't our playground anyway. Bo was pretty adamant that they were a recruit and develop spot for 3 and 4 year players.  Gard seems to follow suit.  

I'm a little torn on Gard myself.  Seems like a solid coach that gets the most out of his team, but it does seem like we are perennially ranked out of the 25, only to crawl ourselves back into the top 25 (or even 10) and then become a wall flower at the dance. 

Would be nice to see a team or two that had enough clearly talented players that we didn't have to outperform expectations every time to get some respect. 

[MrTPlush]

43 minutes ago, RobDeer 45 said:

What do you think is the biggest difference between the early season play and current play?  I'm hopping they can get off this skid tonight and play well.

Well, one quick gander at the schedule and you can see they are absolutely horrendous on the road. In the 14 games before they started struggling, they had one true road game (two if you add Marquette...but that's somewhat generous). They did edge out Iowa in that road game. So, all that early season success was largely thanks to a lot of home/neutral court games. 

In the current 7 game stretch, they have had four road games and have won none of them. Another loss to Michigan St at home. Never easy, but Michigan St isn't elite and that is only their second road win all year. Another loss at home to Illinois, which is a pretty good team.

They aren't stealing any road wins (many of which were 10+ point losses) and aren't even defending their home court lately. Good news for the Badgers is that was really the meat of their schedule. Bad news their next four have 3/4 on the road. I think they can save their season and make the tourney. It wouldn't shock me if they go 5-2 or even 6-1 in their next 7 games. 

[homer]

One "drawback" of a recruit and develop program is if you get a guy that develops at lightning speed and leaves early you probably have a hole in your lineup until the younger guys progress.

[MrTPlush]

18 minutes ago, homer said:

One "drawback" of a recruit and develop program is if you get a guy that develops at lightning speed and leaves early you probably have a hole in your lineup until the younger guys progress.

By what? Transfer? They have 6 guys that got drafted this century and Johnny Davis was the only guy that didn't stay at least three years and 2-3 of them were there 4-5 years. I can't say I have followed the Badgers to death enough to know of any guys that bailed even though they weren't drafted...but maybe there are some. You should be able to develop guys just fine if the other guys are sticking around 3+ years. 

All but like 2-3 teams these days recruit and develop their teams. Past that there are maybe 10-15 teams that consistently get a great recruiting classes where regardless of losing players via pros/transfer they always have guys to step in and likely be useful players. Past that, I think college basketball is pretty equal in the Power 5's. 

Wisconsin's main issues with recruiting and having holes in the lineup is:

#1 Gard has actually had quite a few Top 40 recruiting classes. The problem is he also has multiple 100+ recruiting classes. That can be quite problematic when your entire class is one guy.

#2 Guys transferring out. It is going to happen but feels like the Badgers have had quite a bit of it. The entire 2018 class transferred out for instance. 

Those two things plus guys simply not panning out...things can get thin rather quickly. 

[LouisEly]

Executive summary - their biggest issues are:

1. They have been a developmental program, and now with the portal if kids don't play as much as they think they should right away they look elsewhere.
2. Kids in the portal look to start, not be backups (unless it's a legit Final Four contender).
3. They are an Under Armour school, not a Nike school.
4. Wahl was injured and apparently Hepburn has been fighting an ankle injury for a while too, which might explain some of his play.

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

 they had one true road game (two if you add Marquette...but that's somewhat generous). 

No way. I've been to many games in Milwaukee between the two. That's a hostile, at times vulgar environment. Despite having a fan presence there, true road game in every sense of the word.

If they take care of business at home vs MSU & Illinois, they're 14-6 & the road woes aren't nearly as catastrophic looking. But compared to previous teams I'll agree they certainly have struggled on the road since Iowa.

[Jim French Stepstool]

20 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Executive summary - their biggest issues are:

1. They have been a developmental program, and now with the portal if kids don't play as much as they think they should right away they look elsewhere.
2. Kids in the portal look to start, not be backups (unless it's a legit Final Four contender).
3. They are an Under Armour school, not a Nike school.
4. Wahl was injured and apparently Hepburn has been fighting an ankle injury for a while too, which might explain some of his play.

I would consider #3 to be a factor, but not one that's hamstrung them all that much over the years. #1 & 2, absolutely.

#4 yes, and I would include Klesmit as he might've flipped the script vs NU because of his defense..

[yourout]

Sure seem to consistently struggle with the last 4 minutes of the first half.

[worm81]

Geez that was quite the reaction to a 50/50 call.

[Oxy]

There has been a talent identification problem the last few recruiting classes.  Nobody who has transferred out has actually helped the team they transferred to, and they are almost always transferring DOWN a tier or 2 in competition level.

[Oxy]

6 minutes ago, yourout said:

Sure seem to consistently struggle with the last 4 minutes of the first half.

this aged poorly

[MrTPlush]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I would consider #3 to be a factor, but not one that's hamstrung them all that much over the years. #1 & 2, absolutely.

#4 yes, and I would include Klesmit as he might've flipped the script vs NU because of his defense..

I looked at recent guys that have transferred (like last five years), most of them are still irrelevant. So even if they had stayed not sure that really helps anything. Only guy actually worth a lick is Kobe King…and he didn’t leave for playing time or because Wisconsin is a developmental program.

Calling them a developmental program seems odd and just trying to play the victim card. If guys that are leaving weren’t productive and weren’t big time recruits…what exactly did they develop? The reason they are leaving is because Wisconsin isn’t developing them (or not giving them the playing time). The fact that all the players  are ending up at random non power five conference teams tells me they are leaving because they don’t like Wisconsin…not that some other program is trying to pry them away because they want what Wisconsin has.

Guys leave every single program because they are mad about playing time, that isn’t something unique to Wisconsin.

[MrTPlush]

10 minutes ago, Oxy said:

this aged poorly

Poorly in a good way. Haha

They are getting destroyed on the glass though. Might want to fix that at half before OSU stops turning it over like it is going out of style.

[yourout]

11 minutes ago, Oxy said:

this aged poorly

Your welcome!

😁

[yourout]

Going to have to hang on to win.

It won't be easy.

[Oxy]

2 minutes ago, yourout said:

Going to have to hang on to win.

It won't be easy.

But it SHOULDNT be hard...

[yourout]

1 minute ago, Oxy said:

But it SHOULDNT be hard...

Lack of talent really shows up in the crunch.

[yourout]

Can't say I'm surprised by the collapse.