2023-24 Wisconsin Basketball season thread

[RedStickBrew]

I really like how they played that at the end. Now get it in OT

[yourout]

They earned this loss with that second half.

[stoutdude04]

Storming the court when favored. Ha.

[Jim French Stepstool]

6 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

 Plus when guys like Mast, Allick & Gary (if he's back) play with energy & do the "dirty work" they're that much tougher. 

I should've included Hoiberg. Nebraska got on one of their rolls in the 2nd half but IMO they don't win w/o Hoiberg & Garys' performance in the 2nd half on the defensive end. It sucked, but wasn't at all surprising, that they made a run. What was horrible about it was how we responded. A really ugly string of possessions for about 4-5 minutes fueled their push.

When we responded later thanks largely to Klesmit, I really felt once up 6-7 points we were one more stop from settling in & taking control late. Never happened, unfortunately.

I thought it was huge when it was 67-all, we got them to miss, but Wahl couldn't secure the rebound. Would've put us in a last-shot scenario in a tie game, and I think we'd have found a way.

Them going big w/Gary at the 3, Gotta give Hoiberg credit for that.

We saw both the beautiful & the ugly about Storr taking matters into his own hands, all within 45 minutes. Hopefully it'll be less of the latter moving forward & he gets better at reading defenses.

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 hours ago, areacodes said:

If Hodges’s sees playing time in the first half against Purdue that means the game is going amazingly well or really bad.

My thinking is if he does, it's merely to absorb 2-3 fouls vs Edey, hopefully before they're in the 1 and 1.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Live by the 3, die by the 3.  I can see how they are tired from playing defense, but c'mon.

Nebby can get real hot from there. What I didn't see coming was Mast hitting a couple big ones late, And Tominaga hitting none late, early, or in-between.

I guess the same applies to us. Thirty-one attempts from out there is too many. Their post double was very effective, but still. Yet I have a tough time berating Crowl. They did a good job limiting his attempts, and he had 13 rebounds & did a decent job passing out of the doubles. Two TOs in 37 minutes.

[yourout]

This isn't going to end well.

To much talent Gap.

[RedStickBrew]

Looks like it might be a grind all the way. UW has gotten some looks off the high screen and roll. Not getting many open looks from 3 so far

[RedStickBrew]

Got the fouls in our favor down the stretch. That can help

[yourout]

Team is kind of hitting the wall right now.

Not sure they will finish better than 3rd.

[yourout]

Officiating in the b10 is almost as bad as the PAC 10

[adambr2]

Boy, those were some careless possessions at the end with a shot to get back in it. Not that either of these last two losses was a bad one, but would have been nice to get 1 out of 2. Tough week probably drops them back out of the top 10. 

[young guns]

They played pretty well in the paint today, but the 3 ball just wasn't there today for when they did cut off the inside.

[yourout]

Jesus the refs suck.

[adambr2]

They could have pulled this one out if they weren't bricking every single 3 this half. 

[yourout]

4 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

They could have pulled this one out if they weren't bricking every single 3 this half. 

Bad time for the shooting to disappear.

[yourout]

Hopefully they can still hold off Illinois for second place but looking at the schedules I think Illinois has the easier route and the home game we have with them might be for second place although they have a better chance of catching Purdue than we do.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I think this is a good basketball team with a top-10 resume. The much more difficult question is: is this a top 10 team?

It's complicated. The Badgers are hard to play against because everyone they send out on the floor can score (maybe Carter Gilmore excepted). Storr is their best player, but you can stop him and still lose (and I thought Storr played poorly today). Klesmit can hurt you on the dribble or from deep. Wahl and Crowl are pretty good around the rim, and Chuckie will knock down jumpers late-clock. Blackwell has a ton of athleticism and Essegian can come in and stretch a defense. 

The problem is that none of those guys are pure scorers. UNC is going to RJ Davis, and Baycott's there for a dish. Purdue's going to Edey. Houston's guards are incredibly. Even Kentucky (whose defense is PUTRID right now) can find points when they really need them. The Badgers really have to make jump shots to win. It's been that way under Gard for a while. I don't think that's bad. I like Gard, and I think this is one of his best teams. This just feels like one of those Badger teams that's going to go as far as matchups and 3-pointers take them. Now, that's probably true of most teams. And I'm not complaining about it. I'll take it every year! It's just why I'm not too worked up about the two L's this week. I think it's a little bit reversion to the mean.

The one area where improvement is needed is defense. When you play slow (and the Badgers still do, even though they're very efficient), you have to be able to get stops. They really struggled to do that down the stretch against Nebraska and Purdue.  

[Jim French Stepstool]

After seeing Purdue in person today, the thought I came away with was that this is maybe a top 20 team WITHOUT Edey.  Just a lot of parts that fit together really well. Lance Jones was superb today on both ends, & Smith is a very impressive PG (was surprised to see he finished with 5 turnovers though). Even when we (sort of) got things going late, they came up with a big bucket numerous times to stem the tide. And having Edey play sort of a one-man zone while ignoring Wahl on the perimeter was a great bit of strategy.

Obviously we needed to shoot better from 3 to win. Some were well-defended, some were forced, and the good looks just didn't go in. Some bad forces by Storr, but when he's going well a lot of those seem to go in. Jones had a ton to do with that.

Three plays I thought really helped do them in: down by (I think) 2, Edey misses a FT & we get outfought for the rebound. A possession or 2 later we get another miss, the rebound caroms to Hepburn & it bangs off him & out of bounds, Then we get the steal on the press but we can't finish on the runout.

 He didn't make a 3PT shot, but I saw some things from Essegian that may help him earn some more trust. Subbing him in for Storr late was a good move that just didn't bear fruit.

Wahl was a warrior.

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

I think this is a good basketball team with a top-10 resume. The much more difficult question is: is this a top 10 team?

It's complicated. The Badgers are hard to play against because everyone they send out on the floor can score (maybe Carter Gilmore excepted). Storr is their best player, but you can stop him and still lose (and I thought Storr played poorly today). Klesmit can hurt you on the dribble or from deep. Wahl and Crowl are pretty good around the rim, and Chuckie will knock down jumpers late-clock. Blackwell has a ton of athleticism and Essegian can come in and stretch a defense. 

The problem is that none of those guys are pure scorers. UNC is going to RJ Davis, and Baycott's there for a dish. Purdue's going to Edey. Houston's guards are incredibly. Even Kentucky (whose defense is PUTRID right now) can find points when they really need them. The Badgers really have to make jump shots to win. It's been that way under Gard for a while. I don't think that's bad. I like Gard, and I think this is one of his best teams. This just feels like one of those Badger teams that's going to go as far as matchups and 3-pointers take them. Now, that's probably true of most teams. And I'm not complaining about it. I'll take it every year! It's just why I'm not too worked up about the two L's this week. I think it's a little bit reversion to the mean.

The one area where improvement is needed is defense. When you play slow (and the Badgers still do, even though they're very efficient), you have to be able to get stops. They really struggled to do that down the stretch against Nebraska and Purdue.  

Good points. My one contention is that I think they can, vs a lot of teams out there, score in the post often enough to keep them sufficiently multi-dimensional. They did a poor job dealing with the post-double vs Nebraska, that needs to get better. But Wahl came up with a 20-point outing against a defender the likes of which few, if any teams have. And Storr......when (if) he gets better at picking his spots as to when to attack the lane, can be very effective & live at the line. You're right; he wasn't good today. Hoping Blackwell has enough in the tank to finish strong. He can score with versatility but probably needs more muscle.

Can't argue re the defense. I think the parts are there. But AFA getting late stops, yeah, it happened vs PSU also.

[Playing Catch]

19 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Some bad forces by Storr, but when he's going well a lot of those seem to go in. Jones had a ton to do with that.

I thought Jones was magnificent, and I think we'll see other teams defending him with smaller, quicker guards. Of course, most teams don't have a giant just standing under the rim.

It is perhaps a bad idea to sit your best player, but I wanted Gard to at least TRY playing Crowl and Winter at the same time. If either of those two had had the open shooting opportunities that Wahl and Gilmore had, it could have at least forced Painter to make a decision with the 1-in-the-box man-to-man. Having 5 shooters on the floor at once would have been interesting.

The Badgers played really well. I thought the refs were also really good (perhaps a minority opinion). I thought Purdue was fantastic, Particularly on defense and rebounding.

As we all noted, the Badgers were just a few bounces away from winning this -- and being the better team. Wahl was spectacular.

I think the Badgers can beat them at Mackey.

[Jim French Stepstool]

52 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

I thought Jones was magnificent, and I think we'll see other teams defending him with smaller, quicker guards. Of course, most teams don't have a giant just standing under the rim.

It is perhaps a bad idea to sit your best player, but I wanted Gard to at least TRY playing Crowl and Winter at the same time. If either of those two had had the open shooting opportunities that Wahl and Gilmore had, it could have at least forced Painter to make a decision with the 1-in-the-box man-to-man. Having 5 shooters on the floor at once would have been interesting.

The Badgers played really well. I thought the refs were also really good (perhaps a minority opinion). I thought Purdue was fantastic, Particularly on defense and rebounding.

As we all noted, the Badgers were just a few bounces away from winning this -- and being the better team. Wahl was spectacular.

I think the Badgers can beat them at Mackey.

It would've been interesting to try to do something to get Edey out of the paint. Like you said, tough to take Wahl out though. We were outrebounded by like 12-13, I'd hate to think what those numbers would've been w/o him. One idea I heard brought up, was maybe try Ilver instead of Gilmore when Wahl sat. He could potentially draw Edey out of the paint, and he's certainly willing to shoot it.

Maybe we'll see the day when Winter can play the 4, but right now I don't think he can guard anyone but a traditional center. Unless, ironically, it's a 4-man like Wahl or Gilmore. I liked the shot Gard got for him late out of the TO. Thought he was gonna stick it.

The refs were IMO OK. I thought they developed a case of "makeupcall-itis" in the 2nd half though. But that's been going on for years.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

On 2/4/2024 at 9:31 PM, Jim French Stepstool said:

After seeing Purdue in person today, the thought I came away with was that this is maybe a top 20 team WITHOUT Edey.  Just a lot of parts that fit together really well. Lance Jones was superb today on both ends, & Smith is a very impressive PG (was surprised to see he finished with 5 turnovers though). Even when we (sort of) got things going late, they came up with a big bucket numerous times to stem the tide. And having Edey play sort of a one-man zone while ignoring Wahl on the perimeter was a great bit of strategy.

Obviously we needed to shoot better from 3 to win. Some were well-defended, some were forced, and the good looks just didn't go in. Some bad forces by Storr, but when he's going well a lot of those seem to go in. Jones had a ton to do with that.

Three plays I thought really helped do them in: down by (I think) 2, Edey misses a FT & we get outfought for the rebound. A possession or 2 later we get another miss, the rebound caroms to Hepburn & it bangs off him & out of bounds, Then we get the steal on the press but we can't finish on the runout.

 He didn't make a 3PT shot, but I saw some things from Essegian that may help him earn some more trust. Subbing him in for Storr late was a good move that just didn't bear fruit.

Wahl was a warrior.

Absolutely. Purdue's guards were very good Sunday. Hit some contested 18-footers that make a huge difference (Nebraska's guys did the same thing late in that game). I'm not sure I TRUST Purdue's guards fully (it's why I'd pick UCONN as the most likely national champ if I had to choose right now), but the Boilers are, for my money, the best team in the country when they get good guard play. If I'm scheming for them, I might just single-cover Edey, which sounds crazy because he's likely to put up like 50. But at least then you can hope you get hot from three or get him to pick up a few fouls. Maybe a little hack-a-Zach too, and I've seen some off nights from him from the line.

Badgers have two road games this week (never easy) against opponents who seem to always play well against them. Important to go 2-0, I think. They'll probably only be small favorites, but they'll be the better team in both. If they stick on a top-4 seed line, I'll still feel pretty good about their chances to make a run.

[Playing Catch]

30 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

If they stick on a top-4 seed line, I'll still feel pretty good about their chances to make a run.

Yes, but boy... 2-seeds are essentially 1-seeds in terms of the path to the final four.

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Absolutely. Purdue's guards were very good Sunday. Hit some contested 18-footers that make a huge difference (Nebraska's guys did the same thing late in that game). I'm not sure I TRUST Purdue's guards fully (it's why I'd pick UCONN as the most likely national champ if I had to choose right now), but the Boilers are, for my money, the best team in the country when they get good guard play. If I'm scheming for them, I might just single-cover Edey, which sounds crazy because he's likely to put up like 50. But at least then you can hope you get hot from three or get him to pick up a few fouls. Maybe a little hack-a-Zach too, and I've seen some off nights from him from the line.

Badgers have two road games this week (never easy) against opponents who seem to always play well against them. Important to go 2-0, I think. They'll probably only be small favorites, but they'll be the better team in both. If they stick on a top-4 seed line, I'll still feel pretty good about their chances to make a run.

After PSU, for sure there are no road games we can take for granted. If Hepburn can guard his tail off & bother McDaniel that would be huge.

If the way Edey shot FTs the last two games was the norm, I'd love to just use up 13-14 fouls on him. But like we saw, they likely don't win w/o the other contributions, especially Jones. I guess another way of looking at it was that we only turned it over IIRC 5 times-----we almost HAD to shoot 16% from three to NOT win.