Game 7: Vikings @ Packers - Sunday, October 2pth 12:00 PM

[adambr2]

1 minute ago, young guns said:

I'm in full tank mode now for sure.  Titans get their third win, but the giants blow it in regulation as the jets force overtime.

The most hilarious part about all this is that we aren't even going to get our high draft pick consolation prize from the Jets. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

19 minutes ago, homer said:

still kind of hard to evaluate Love IMO which is also obviously on Gute for assembling a bad roster. 

This is where I am. I don't think he's the 3rd straight Hall of Famer but I don't feel like there's been any true evaluation opportunities. You just can't hand the keys over with all these problems and expect good results. Bad line, bad skill players, an inconsistent defense. Right now the Packers literally do nothing well. Nobody would look good. Rodgers didn't last year. 

Love obviously looks worse than Rodgers, but we get near halftime and he's thrown 5 passes and we're down 2 scores every week. It's just hot garbage on display. 

[SeaBass]

27 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Not a great look for the organization to have spent a 1st and a 4th for a QB to be a backup for a team coming off an NFC championship game appearance, sit 3 years and then be "not great."

Frankly I'm tired of this entire narrative. It's a tiny price to pay if you feel like the player is worth it, especially for a QB. The 49ers traded 3 firsts and a 3rd to take Trey Lance. QBs bust all the time, only losing out on one extra 4th round pick is getting off cheap. And we still haven't seen the actual end of Love's story.

The other alternative is not taking any risks. I'll take the front office that takes risks all day long.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

20 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Yup, it always seemed kinda obvious, now it is being proven.

Im guessing the crowd mad Rodgers didn’t allow us to run “MLFs offense” are reconsidering that stance.

Meh. The roster is substantially worse than it has been in some time and it is far from just the QB. 

I get that everyone's ticked, but let's be serious. The Packers have had some really great teams over the last 20 years and it wasn't just Aaron Rodgers. And that includes some great drafting in that span. 

[homer]

17 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

This is where I am. I don't think he's the 3rd straight Hall of Famer but I don't feel like there's been any true evaluation opportunities. You just can't hand the keys over with all these problems and expect good results. Bad line, bad skill players, an inconsistent defense. Right now the Packers literally do nothing well. Nobody would look good. Rodgers didn't last year. 

Love obviously looks worse than Rodgers, but we get near halftime and he's thrown 5 passes and we're down 2 scores every week. It's just hot garbage on display. 

I don't think the skill guys are bad. Just supper inexperienced. They miss Lazard and Lewis in the run game too. 

 

edit: thinking about it, I suppose inexperience yields bad results. 

[yourout]

13 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Meh. The roster is substantially worse than it has been in some time and it is far from just the QB. 

I get that everyone's ticked, but let's be serious. The Packers have had some really great teams over the last 20 years and it wasn't just Aaron Rodgers. And that includes some great drafting in that span. 

Yeah fixing this mess starts with the guy doing the drafting and by extension that means the coaching staff as well.

 

On edit...i think i am going to grab the guteyneeds2go.com url.

[adambr2]

33 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

Frankly I'm tired of this entire narrative. It's a tiny price to pay if you feel like the player is worth it, especially for a QB. The 49ers traded 3 firsts and a 3rd to take Trey Lance. QBs bust all the time, only losing out on one extra 4th round pick is getting off cheap. And we still haven't seen the actual end of Love's story.

The other alternative is not taking any risks. I'll take the front office that takes risks all day long.

You know what would have been more fun than taking a "risk" in 2020? Finding a player in the 1st round that would have had a chance to be an immediate difference maker on a championship level team and put that team over the edge and maybe make a Super Bowl in 20-21 or 21-22 instead of sitting here and saying "what if" on everything. 

If you're going to take a risk you had better either 1) be damn certain that you are in fact the smartest man in the room and end up being right, or 2) have a strong enough track record of wins to earn a free pass. (See John Lynch).

Brian Gutekunst has neither. This "mistake" is going to cost him his job. It's not if, it's when. 

[Sixtolezcano]

54 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

This is where I am. I don't think he's the 3rd straight Hall of Famer but I don't feel like there's been any true evaluation opportunities. You just can't hand the keys over with all these problems and expect good results. Bad line, bad skill players, an inconsistent defense. Right now the Packers literally do nothing well. Nobody would look good. Rodgers didn't last year. 

Love obviously looks worse than Rodgers, but we get near halftime and he's thrown 5 passes and we're down 2 scores every week. It's just hot garbage on display. 

I think that there has been plenty of opportunities to get a good evaluation of Love. I realize it has been 7 weeks starting this season, but we’ve seen him start a couple of games the past 2 years and with almost a dozen preseason games. 
1. Inferior accuracy - This is the most alarming deficiency that he displays. This is apparent on both long and short passes. Inaccuracy obviously leads to increased turnovers, but what sets good NFL QBs apart from scrubs is being able to thread passes into tight windows. How many of these type of passes have you seen him complete this season? This might be the most difficult talent to master, and if you’re not accurate you just aren’t going to be an average NFL QB.

2. He is poor at reading defenses and has poor decision making skills. There have been numerous times he has missed seeing wide open receivers and just chucked deep passes into double and triple coverage. Way too many interceptions. Remember he also lead the NCAA his senior year in picks.

What saves most teams, like the 49ers when they make a mistake drafting bad quarterbacks is to evaluate quickly, make a fast decision and move on. Waiting a year or two (or even 3) and hoping that the QB  will catch on typically sends teams in an extended downward spiral. What worries me is Gutey seems to hold on to failed draft picks longer than most GMs, which may portend major problems for our future.

 

 

 

[Sixtolezcano]

50 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

Frankly I'm tired of this entire narrative. It's a tiny price to pay if you feel like the player is worth it, especially for a QB. The 49ers traded 3 firsts and a 3rd to take Trey Lance. QBs bust all the time, only losing out on one extra 4th round pick is getting off cheap. And we still haven't seen the actual end of Love's story.

The other alternative is not taking any risks. I'll take the front office that takes risks all day long.

But it didn’t take long for the 49ers to evaluate Lance, realize their mistake and move on quickly. I just don’t trust Gutey to admit to his mistake.

[homer]

7 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

But it didn’t take long for the 49ers to evaluate Lance, realize their mistake and move on quickly. I just don’t trust Gutey to admit to his mistake.

If not for injuries  Lance might be the starting QB for SF. 

[Strike4]

25 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

I think that there has been plenty of opportunities to get a good evaluation of Love. I realize it has been 7 weeks starting this season, but we’ve seen him start a couple of games the past 2 years and with almost a dozen preseason games. 
1. Inferior accuracy - This is the most alarming deficiency that he displays. This is apparent on both long and short passes. Inaccuracy obviously leads to increased turnovers, but what sets good NFL QBs apart from scrubs is being able to thread passes into tight windows. How many of these type of passes have you seen him complete this season? This might be the most difficult talent to master, and if you’re not accurate you just aren’t going to be an average NFL QB.

2. He is poor at reading defenses and has poor decision making skills. There have been numerous times he has missed seeing wide open receivers and just chucked deep passes into double and triple coverage. Way too many interceptions. Remember he also lead the NCAA his senior year in picks.

What saves most teams, like the 49ers when they make a mistake drafting bad quarterbacks is to evaluate quickly, make a fast decision and move on. Waiting a year or two (or even 3) and hoping that the QB  will catch on typically sends teams in an extended downward spiral. What worries me is Gutey seems to hold on to failed draft picks longer than most GMs, which may portend major problems for our future.

 

 

 

Leading to my pessimism is that these were the exact same criticisms of Love pre-draft.  I have seen little meaningful growth.  Give Love the rest of the season but if he isn’t showing a great deal of growth by the end of the year the Packers are likely to have a shot at one of the highly regarded QBs coming out - you have to take advantage.

 

Bad QB picks don’t ruin franchises. However, not realizing it and giving bad to even average QBs extensions rather than moving on does however.

[Sixtolezcano]

With Cousins out for the year with a torn Achilles, maybe we can package Love in a trade for a high draft pick (maybe a 3 or 4th).

[adambr2]

I mean, we're all in agreement that Brian Gutekunst should be fired, right? 

Whether you think they got the wrong guy in Love...or whether you think Love sucks because the cast around him is awful...both of those are the responsibility of Brian Gutekunst, no?

[MrTPlush]

1 minute ago, adambr2 said:

I mean, we're all in agreement that Brian Gutekunst should be fired, right? 

Whether you think they got the wrong guy in Love...or whether you think Love sucks because the cast around him is awful...both of those are the responsibility of Brian Gutekunst, no?

I mean, the coaches gotta go too. MLF is quite honestly a joke. 

[homer]

the only person that absolutely has to go is Joe Berry. 

[homer]

I have no idea if this is the fault of the player or the coaching:

 

 

[yourout]

35 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I mean, we're all in agreement that Brian Gutekunst should be fired, right? 

Whether you think they got the wrong guy in Love...or whether you think Love sucks because the cast around him is awful...both of those are the responsibility of Brian Gutekunst, no?

I'm with it. One thing pretty much every super bowl team has is a really good GM that can recognize and acquire talent and guty ain't it

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, Sixtolezcano said:

But it didn’t take long for the 49ers to evaluate Lance, realize their mistake and move on quickly. I just don’t trust Gutey to admit to his mistake.

Methinks the 49ers might have acted a bit too quickly jettisoning Lance and assuming Purdy is going to be great.  San Fran about to lose their 3rd straight after they were labeled a juggernaut

[yourout]

36 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

I mean, the coaches gotta go too. MLF is quite honestly a joke. 

It's almost always a package deal that when the GM goes the coach goes with him.

[SeaBass]

2 hours ago, adambr2 said:

You know what would have been more fun than taking a "risk" in 2020? Finding a player in the 1st round that would have had a chance to be an immediate difference maker on a championship level team and put that team over the edge and maybe make a Super Bowl in 20-21 or 21-22 instead of sitting here and saying "what if" on everything. 

If you're going to take a risk you had better either 1) be damn certain that you are in fact the smartest man in the room and end up being right, or 2) have a strong enough track record of wins to earn a free pass. (See John Lynch).

Brian Gutekunst has neither. This "mistake" is going to cost him his job. It's not if, it's when. 

This is a lot of hindsight gobbledygook.

Got it, you're in the "no risk" camp because you either are or you're not. John Lynch is far from the only GM that's been burned making huge trades for high round QBs. Clearly teams value taking those risks enough to continue making those types of moves. Again, the Packers' risk was pretty mild in comparison.

Some people might feel there was a single player that if taken was going to make a difference and change Packers history as we know it. I'm in the group that thinks things would have gone pretty much the same for them as it did.

I think Gutekunst will be here through the 2024 season if not longer. This season was never going to be a serious go-for-it type of year so I'm sorry to everyone that wants him gone but he's just not getting fired after this one. Mark Murphy is in charge until the summer of 2025, I think Gutekunst is going to be around for as long as Murphy will be. Maybe he gets fired before the 2025 draft if the board puts pressure on Murphy to make a move going into his lame duck off-season but Murphy is pretty slow to act as shown by his history.

[HarryDoyle]

Listening to the Nagler postgame podcast it seems like Murphy has given both Gute and MLF through next season so if there's still anyone thinking that Murphy isn't a problem and has nothing to do with the product on the field, you might want to rethink your position.

[Sixtolezcano]

23 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Methinks the 49ers might have acted a bit too quickly jettisoning Lance and assuming Purdy is going to be great.  San Fran about to lose their 3rd straight after they were labeled a juggernaut

I don’t think Lance will amount to much than an average backup. I mean his best skill was as a running QB playing at North Dakota State.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Neither MLF nor Gute will be fired. Probably will be next season if we see more of this. 

If we do pick top 5 or so I will be very interested in the pick. Hard to argue with a QB but they need so much it's hard to argue with much. 

[adambr2]

54 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

This is a lot of hindsight gobbledygook.

No, it's not. You can go back to the 2020 draft thread and see that the general theme from a lot of us was somewhere between "what in the actual hell are we thinking/doing" and "this is an absolute disaster."

That is the opposite of hindsight. 

You also don't have to tell me twice that the Packers have a notoriously long leash to an absolute fault with both coaches and front office personnel. It's part of the reason that we haven't seen a Super Bowl in 13 years despite elite QB play because we don't hold our personnel accountable for poor performance, or we do it far too late. 

[yourout]

1 hour ago, HarryDoyle said:

Listening to the Nagler postgame podcast it seems like Murphy has given both Gute and MLF through next season so if there's still anyone thinking that Murphy isn't a problem and has nothing to do with the product on the field, you might want to rethink your position.

Ugh....that is my biggest fear.