Let’s get Bobby Miller from LAD please!

[bigred]

27 minutes ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Both are 6’4, and at that a rarity for a mlb ss (see machado),  is Bobby Miller a top 25 in all of baseball prospect or isn’t he?  If not, where does he fit on the spectrum in relation to Pratt?

The difference between them though, is about 40-50 lbs. That means a lot, when it comes to the SS position. 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

Since he was sent back to AAA, his arm must not be that elite. At the MLB level at least. 

That's...silly.

So Misiorowski doesn't have an elite arm? Burnes didn't have an elite arm? You can go on and on with this.

He's a lefty with overpowering stuff, 99+MPH Fastball...there's no world in which that's not an elite arm.

He's got a 3 other plus pitches. Don't conflate some struggles with an abnormally high BABIP, HR rate and then just some normal struggles with an arm like that one one of the teams with the most pitching talent in the league year in and year out for not "being an elite arm," because he's struggled in a small sample size.

1 hour ago, bigred said:

Now THIS I would be ok with. 

It is...beyond impossible to understand your logic. You want an "all in" move that you feel the Brewers have promised their fans...but you want to give up a SS who's averaging over 4 WAR per 162 games during his time in Milwaukee for a pitcher...who while having ace potential, is working through some things and may take a little time with the Brewers to figure out?

For the record, I'd be fine with Adames for Miller...because I don't think they need to go "all in" this year as I love their young players and think their window is the next 3-5 years, but you're pretty clear about being "all in" this year. How would trading Adames(a clubhouse leader like the Hader trade you strongly dislike, but an even more integral part of the team as their starting SS). I just...don't get it. 

[bigred]

1 minute ago, BrewerFan said:

That's...silly.

So Misiorowski doesn't have an elite arm? Burnes didn't have an elite arm? You can go on and on with this.

He's a lefty with overpowering stuff, 99+MPH Fastball...there's no world in which that's not an elite arm.

He's got a 3 other plus pitches. Don't conflate some struggles with an abnormally high BABIP, HR rate and then just some normal struggles with an arm like that one one of the teams with the most pitching talent in the league year in and year out for not "being an elite arm," because he's struggled in a small sample size.

It is...beyond impossible to understand your logic. You want an "all in" move that you feel the Brewers have promised their fans...but you want to give up a SS who's averaging over 4 WAR per 162 games during his time in Milwaukee for a pitcher...who while having ace potential, is working through some things and may take a little time with the Brewers to figure out?

For the record, I'd be fine with Adames for Miller...because I don't think they need to go "all in" this year as I love their young players and think their window is the next 3-5 years, but you're pretty clear about being "all in" this year. How would trading Adames(a clubhouse leader like the Hader trade you strongly dislike, but an even more integral part of the team as their starting SS). I just...don't get it. 

The logic is, Adames will be a FA at years end, and the Brewers have no chance of re-signing him. Think about it. 

[bigred]

3 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

That's...silly.

So Misiorowski doesn't have an elite arm? Burnes didn't have an elite arm? You can go on and on with this.

He's a lefty with overpowering stuff, 99+MPH Fastball...there's no world in which that's not an elite arm.

He's got a 3 other plus pitches. Don't conflate some struggles with an abnormally high BABIP, HR rate and then just some normal struggles with an arm like that one one of the teams with the most pitching talent in the league year in and year out for not "being an elite arm," because he's struggled in a small sample size.

It is...beyond impossible to understand your logic. You want an "all in" move that you feel the Brewers have promised their fans...but you want to give up a SS who's averaging over 4 WAR per 162 games during his time in Milwaukee for a pitcher...who while having ace potential, is working through some things and may take a little time with the Brewers to figure out?

For the record, I'd be fine with Adames for Miller...because I don't think they need to go "all in" this year as I love their young players and think their window is the next 3-5 years, but you're pretty clear about being "all in" this year. How would trading Adames(a clubhouse leader like the Hader trade you strongly dislike, but an even more integral part of the team as their starting SS). I just...don't get it. 

You 'don't get it" because it doesn't align perfectly with your opinion, and because of that, you don't even attempt to try and understand other points of view. Have a good night. 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

The difference between them though, is about 40-50 lbs. That means a lot, when it comes to the SS position. 

There is NOT a 50 pound difference between Pratt and Bitonti. There MAY be a 20LB difference at this point as Pratt is filling out.

Also...Gunnar Henderson is bigger than Bitonti. 

 

3 minutes ago, bigred said:

The logic is, Adames will be a FA at years end, and the Brewers have no chance of re-signing him. Think about it. 

Yeah...I have. Which is why I said I'D make that trade.

YOU'RE arguing Miller isn't an elite arm and that the Brewers should go "all in" this year as they've promised.

You've also brought up the Hader trade(I feel like I just made these points) and how that hurt the cluebouse. 

Guarantee an Adames trade would hurt it more at this point.

 

[BrewerFan]

2 minutes ago, bigred said:

You 'don't get it" because it doesn't align perfectly with your opinion, and because of that, you don't even attempt to try and understand other points of view. Have a good night. 

Ok.

[bigred]

5 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

That's...silly.

So Misiorowski doesn't have an elite arm? Burnes didn't have an elite arm? You can go on and on with this.

He's a lefty with overpowering stuff, 99+MPH Fastball...there's no world in which that's not an elite arm.

He's got a 3 other plus pitches. Don't conflate some struggles with an abnormally high BABIP, HR rate and then just some normal struggles with an arm like that one one of the teams with the most pitching talent in the league year in and year out for not "being an elite arm," because he's struggled in a small sample size.

It is...beyond impossible to understand your logic. You want an "all in" move that you feel the Brewers have promised their fans...but you want to give up a SS who's averaging over 4 WAR per 162 games during his time in Milwaukee for a pitcher...who while having ace potential, is working through some things and may take a little time with the Brewers to figure out?

For the record, I'd be fine with Adames for Miller...because I don't think they need to go "all in" this year as I love their young players and think their window is the next 3-5 years, but you're pretty clear about being "all in" this year. How would trading Adames(a clubhouse leader like the Hader trade you strongly dislike, but an even more integral part of the team as their starting SS). I just...don't get it. 

An elite arm, sure. But just like Miller, if Miz doesn't do well once he makes the show, then a case could be made then that apparently it wouldn't be "elite" enough for the Majors. It's happened to other high prospects with supposed "elite" arms many times before. 

[bigred]

Just now, BrewerFan said:

Ok.

Look at the listed weights of Pratt and Bitonti once. I'm giving you a SMDH on this one now. 

[bigred]

2 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

There is NOT a 50 pound difference between Pratt and Bitonti. There MAY be a 20LB difference at this point as Pratt is filling out.

Also...Gunnar Henderson is bigger than Bitonti. 

 

Yeah...I have. Which is why I said I'D make that trade.

YOU'RE arguing Miller isn't an elite arm and that the Brewers should go "all in" this year as they've promised.

You've also brought up the Hader trade(I feel like I just made these points) and how that hurt the cluebouse. 

Guarantee an Adames trade would hurt it more at this point.

 

Like I said earlier, and you conveniently overlooked, it was mentioned when they drafted Bitonti, that a positional change was almost certain with him. 

[BrewerFan]

Just now, bigred said:

An elite arm, sure. But just like Miller, if Miz doesn't do well once he makes the show, then a case could be made then that apparently it wouldn't be "elite" enough for the Majors. It's happened to other high prospects with supposed "elite" arms many times before. 

Right...but in this scenario, Misiorowski would start for a year for a 100 win team, then struggle in a very small sample size in his second year, have a blow up start in which he allows 9 ER and is then sent down to re-goup in the minors...after being recognized as one of the best young arms in the game.

 

I probably wouldn't say he's not an elite arm at that point. You can also reply to these in the same post....

5 minutes ago, bigred said:

Look at the listed weights of Pratt and Bitonti once. I'm giving you a SMDH on this one now. 

Right. It's not a 50 pound difference. 

3 minutes ago, bigred said:

Like I said earlier, and you conveniently overlooked, it was mentioned when they drafted Bitonti, that a positional change was almost certain with him. 

I don't know when you said that...I didn't even argue that Bitonti would be a SS(though if you're going to with the "it was mentioned," argument, it's been mentioned Pratt may move off of SS).

But I was merely pointing out...Bitonti is not 50 pounds larger than Pratt. He is in fact...ligher than Gunnar Henderson. 

 

I'll return the "SMDH," at the using weight of Bitonti as the reason he's not going to stick at SS. Also, are you confusing Bitonti with Wilken.? I'm just really not sure where you're getting the up to 50 pound difference?

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Both are 6’4, and at that a rarity for a mlb ss (see machado),  is Bobby Miller a top 25 in all of baseball prospect or isn’t he?  If not, where does he fit on the spectrum in relation to Pratt?

Yeah...Machado almost certainly would have been a great MLB SS if not for the circumstances in which he came up and then the teams he played for. He's not established himself as an all time great defensive 3B(not THE all time great, but, but an elite defender).

But you have Correa, Seager, Gunnar who are all 6'4 215-220, Elly De La Cruz who's 6'5, O'Niel Cruz at 6'7, the top prospect is 6'3. 

 

But sure, the question is how confident are you in Miller being able to harness his stuff...which is so electric it moves too much at times with Pratt who is also a difficult player to project as he's still in LowA.

 

I don't actually think the Dodgers would actually move Miller. I think they're just sending him down as he's a bit snakebit right now. 19 ERs have come in 3 starts among the 7 he's made this year. They could have Ohtani, Yamamoto, Glasnow, May, Gosolin, Buehler(that's 5-6 TOR type arms when healthy) and then...5-6 young pitchers with TOR type stuff, so that'd be the argument for why he COULD get traded.

But there are injury concerns among those pitchers and it seems the Dodgers entire philosophy is to try and mix the young starters like Knack or whomever in slowly as an injury replacements and bring them along slowly.

So Miller, Knack, Stone, Frasso, Hurt, Bruns...among others, they COULD be used as trade bait, but they love maintaining their depth, and it's been a pretty big reason they've been so damn good(despite losing guys like Urias and Bauers for off the field issues and plenty others to TJ). 

 

LA is the team that could more afford to trade a young potential ace with 5 years of team control left...and some record of success at the big league level and still come back with the best staff in baseball next year. 

My guess is a lot of those names make spot starts in a 6 man rotation to give Ohtani, Yamamoto, Glasnow, etc...less wear and tear, and others who have the upper 90s fastballs and a plus 2nd pitch fill out the pen with the more prized arms starting and staying stretched out in AAA. 

[bigred]

3 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Right...but in this scenario, Misiorowski would start for a year for a 100 win team, then struggle in a very small sample size in his second year, have a blow up start in which he allows 9 ER and is then sent down to re-goup in the minors...after being recognized as one of the best young arms in the game.

 

I probably wouldn't say he's not an elite arm at that point. You can also reply to these in the same post....

Right. It's not a 50 pound difference. 

I don't know when you said that...I didn't even argue that Bitonti would be a SS(though if you're going to with the "it was mentioned," argument, it's been mentioned Pratt may move off of SS).

But I was merely pointing out...Bitonti is not 50 pounds larger than Pratt. He is in fact...ligher than Gunnar Henderson. 

 

I'll return the "SMDH," at the using weight of Bitonti as the reason he's not going to stick at SS. Also, are you confusing Bitonti with Wilken.? I'm just really not sure where you're getting the up to 50 pound difference?

My mistake. For some reason I thought the prospect profile for Pratt had him listed at 170. I'm only a mere mortal. Been looking at a lot of profiles lately. Obviously I mixed his weight with someone else. Unlike most "fans" on here, I'll admit when I make a mistake, 

[bigred]

2 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Yeah...Machado almost certainly would have been a great MLB SS if not for the circumstances in which he came up and then the teams he played for. He's not established himself as an all time great defensive 3B(not THE all time great, but, but an elite defender).

But you have Correa, Seager, Gunnar who are all 6'4 215-220, Elly De La Cruz who's 6'5, O'Niel Cruz at 6'7, the top prospect is 6'3. 

 

But sure, the question is how confident are you in Miller being able to harness his stuff...which is so electric it moves too much at times with Pratt who is also a difficult player to project as he's still in LowA.

 

I don't actually think the Dodgers would actually move Miller. I think they're just sending him down as he's a bit snakebit right now. 19 ERs have come in 3 starts among the 7 he's made this year. They could have Ohtani, Yamamoto, Glasnow, May, Gosolin, Buehler(that's 5-6 TOR type arms when healthy) and then...5-6 young pitchers with TOR type stuff, so that'd be the argument for why he COULD get traded.

But there are injury concerns among those pitchers and it seems the Dodgers entire philosophy is to try and mix the young starters like Knack or whomever in slowly as an injury replacements and bring them along slowly.

So Miller, Knack, Stone, Frasso, Hurt, Bruns...among others, they COULD be used as trade bait, but they love maintaining their depth, and it's been a pretty big reason they've been so damn good(despite losing guys like Urias and Bauers for off the field issues and plenty others to TJ). 

 

LA is the team that could more afford to trade a young potential ace with 5 years of team control left...and some record of success at the big league level and still come back with the best staff in baseball next year. 

My guess is a lot of those names make spot starts in a 6 man rotation to give Ohtani, Yamamoto, Glasnow, etc...less wear and tear, and others who have the upper 90s fastballs and a plus 2nd pitch fill out the pen with the more prized arms starting and staying stretched out in AAA. 

The Dodgers having no team salary constraints is the the main reason they've been so damn good. 

[TURBO]

9 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Im starting to think the right move if available is Adames for Bobby Miller.  Feeling strong on that too.

lol

3 months of Adames for what, 5-6 years of Miller?

That offer would never be made because the Brewers know they would be laughed off the phone.

[bigred]

3 hours ago, TURBO said:

lol

3 months of Adames for what, 5-6 years of Miller?

That offer would never be made because the Brewers know they would be laughed off the phone.

If they wanted to, LA would have plenty of $$ to sign him after this season. Just saying. I doubt they would do that trade either though. 

[bigred]

11 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

There is NOT a 50 pound difference between Pratt and Bitonti. There MAY be a 20LB difference at this point as Pratt is filling out.

Also...Gunnar Henderson is bigger than Bitonti. 

 

Yeah...I have. Which is why I said I'D make that trade.

YOU'RE arguing Miller isn't an elite arm and that the Brewers should go "all in" this year as they've promised.

You've also brought up the Hader trade(I feel like I just made these points) and how that hurt the cluebouse. 

Guarantee an Adames trade would hurt it more at this point.

 

I didn't say a thing about the Hader trade. You have me confused with someone else. 

[BrewerFan]

20 hours ago, bigred said:

The Dodgers having no team salary constraints is the the main reason they've been so damn good. 

Sure. Lots of money helps. They have the #2 rated farm system and they're able to plug in for injury after injury, year after year. 

So that plays a pretty big role as well. 

 

13 hours ago, bigred said:

If they wanted to, LA would have plenty of $$ to sign him after this season. Just saying. I doubt they would do that trade either though. 

They're trying to win a WS RIGHT NOW. SS/IF is arguably their biggest weakness. Now...I don't think they'd make that trade, but I certainly would think that if I didn't think Miller was an elite arm. 

I think that'd be a pretty reasonable trade or starting point at the very least with a little bit in addition offered to Adames. 

 

[BrewerFan]

21 hours ago, bigred said:

My mistake. For some reason I thought the prospect profile for Pratt had him listed at 170. I'm only a mere mortal. Been looking at a lot of profiles lately. Obviously I mixed his weight with someone else. Unlike most "fans" on here, I'll admit when I make a mistake, 

...Yeah, I mean, if I said something so objectively false, it'd be hard to argue otherwise.

If said Yelich is hitting .200, then...I'd admit I was wrong.

You've been doing a "just trust me," thing lately and then when I ask for any type of example, it's "you're not going to listen anyway." 

Sometimes it's just really hard to understand what or why you're arguing. I say(as I've been saying for 4 years) I think Turang is "Turner-ish." You make a couple of post saying Turang....who's already bigger, will never have the frame to hit for as much power(this after I clarified and did mean he'd literally be the exact same player).

You say the Brewers "owe" it to the fanbase after "gaslighting" us for years(not an example of it) and you're alright with them trading arguably the most important clubhouse guy and an elite SS. I just don't really understand where you're coming from most of the time. 

[bigred]

6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

...Yeah, I mean, if I said something so objectively false, it'd be hard to argue otherwise.

If said Yelich is hitting .200, then...I'd admit I was wrong.

You've been doing a "just trust me," thing lately and then when I ask for any type of example, it's "you're not going to listen anyway." 

Sometimes it's just really hard to understand what or why you're arguing. I say(as I've been saying for 4 years) I think Turang is "Turner-ish." You make a couple of post saying Turang....who's already bigger, will never have the frame to hit for as much power(this after I clarified and did mean he'd literally be the exact same player).

You say the Brewers "owe" it to the fanbase after "gaslighting" us for years(not an example of it) and you're alright with them trading arguably the most important clubhouse guy and an elite SS. I just don't really understand where you're coming from most of the time. 

Your opinion on Miller was made long ago. No need to keep beating that dead horse. 

[bigred]

6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

...Yeah, I mean, if I said something so objectively false, it'd be hard to argue otherwise.

If said Yelich is hitting .200, then...I'd admit I was wrong.

You've been doing a "just trust me," thing lately and then when I ask for any type of example, it's "you're not going to listen anyway." 

Sometimes it's just really hard to understand what or why you're arguing. I say(as I've been saying for 4 years) I think Turang is "Turner-ish." You make a couple of post saying Turang....who's already bigger, will never have the frame to hit for as much power(this after I clarified and did mean he'd literally be the exact same player).

You say the Brewers "owe" it to the fanbase after "gaslighting" us for years(not an example of it) and you're alright with them trading arguably the most important clubhouse guy and an elite SS. I just don't really understand where you're coming from most of the time. 

Whatever man. Lol 🤦‍♂️ 

[jay87shot]

What about Peralta for Miller and Miguel Vargas this offseason. I am losing faith in Peralta as a top of the rotation starter. Miller would be a good rotation add and Vargas can possibly play 3B, 2B, 1B, and OF. Possibly add a lower ranked prospect or two if you want.

[Scooterfletcher]

6 hours ago, jay87shot said:

What about Peralta for Miller and Miguel Vargas this offseason. I am losing faith in Peralta as a top of the rotation starter. Miller would be a good rotation add and Vargas can possibly play 3B, 2B, 1B, and OF. Possibly add a lower ranked prospect or two if you want.

I’d rather keep Peralta and add to an Adames for miller centered trade.   Adames and Peguero for Miller or Adames and Blaylock for Miller.   Something like that.

Peralta I’d keep and try sell higher or just keep if he doesn’t improve his stature. 

[Scooterfletcher]

Just now, Scooterfletcher said:

I’d rather keep Peralta and add to an Adames for miller centered trade.   Adames and Peguero for Miller or Adames and Blaylock for Miller.   Something like that.

Peralta I’d keep and try sell higher 1-1.5 years from now or just keep if he doesn’t improve his stature. 

 

[BrewerFan]

14 hours ago, bigred said:

Your opinion on Miller was made long ago. No need to keep beating that dead horse. 

This is a reply to a comment in which there's NOTHING in there about Miller(although, he's literally the topic of the thread)...so strange reply all the way around.

 

14 hours ago, bigred said:

Whatever man. Lol 🤦‍♂️ 

So again, you can squeeze both replies into the same post(particularly if they're both replies to the same post). I'm just asking what your rationale is. They need to win now because they've been lying to us, but now it's trade Adames...so yeah, sorry if I find your messages a bit conflicting and confusing. 

[Scooterfletcher]

There are AI posters here I swear. !