After Missing Out on Tarik Skubal, Brewers Still Got What They Needed Most at Trade Deadline

[Joseph Zarr]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

That's more a indictment of the Cardinals system not being very good. 

While this may be true, as myself and a few others have repeatedly had to point out to posters on this board: Frias is a Top 100 prospect in all of baseball and this community has been behind in understanding how good he is and could become for quite awhile. Many outlets believe he is already a Top 50 prospect in all of baseball for crying out loud. I spoke with people in the industry late last summer and then again with folks in Arizona in and around the Brewers and MLB baseball in early July. The glowing words and overwhelmingly excited projection opinions were astounding. I know folks here will find reasons to devalue prospects but I can tell you the opinions and sentiments shared were absolutely on the same level as Made when he was moving through the Complex. It was absolutely eye opening.

[Matt]

Just now, LouisEly said:

Losing to the eventual World Series champion?

Yes, the team the Brewers will most likely have to face again in the playoffs. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

While this may be true, as myself and a few others have repeatedly had to point out to posters on this board: Frias is a Top 100 prospect in all of baseball and this community has been behind in understanding how good he is and could become for quite awhile. Many outlets believe he is already a Top 50 prospect in all of baseball for crying out loud. I spoke with people in the industry late last summer and then again with folks in Arizona in and around the Brewers and MLB baseball in early July. The glowing words and overwhelmingly excited projection opinions were astounding. I know folks here will find reasons to devalue prospects but I can tell you the opinions and sentiments shared were absolutely on the same level as Made when he was moving through the Comex. It was absolutely eye opening.

That's great. But he's a Cardinal now, so I hope he flames out dramatically.

[MrTPlush]

Well Skubal go the Dodgers may be the straw that broke the camels back to force parity and end runaway domination in the sport…so in a way, may have gotten what we needed out of this deadline.

[Matt]

9 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Well Skubal go the Dodgers may be the straw that broke the camels back to force parity and end runaway domination in the sport…so in a way, may have gotten what we needed out of this deadline.

The problem is if and when the league does find a way to force parity into the sport, they're going to take away every advantage the Brewers currently have in the international market and player development. 

People scream for the need of a salary cap, but well run small market teams like the Rays and Brewers are going to be sacrificed to get there.

[MrTPlush]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

The problem is if and when the league does find a way to force parity into the sport, they're going to take away every advantage the Brewers currently have in the international market and player development. 

People scream for the need of a salary cap, but well run small market teams like the Rays and Brewers are going to be sacrificed to get there.

Maybe so, but we are historically great at all the small market stuff…we can’t even sniff a World Series appearance.

I guess if your enjoyment as a fan is competing, winning the division often, and have a chance equivalent of the Badgers basketball team winning March Madness then true parity would be bad. If we actually want a realistic chance to win it all, I think I’d rather look more like other sports leagues.

[titanrick]

6 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Well Skubal go the Dodgers may be the straw that broke the camels back to force parity and end runaway domination in the sport…so in a way, may have gotten what we needed out of this deadline.

Yeah, I always try to find the silver lining and that could be it.  If the Dodgers cruise to a third straight title after buying Ohtani, Yamamoto, Tucker, Diaz, Skubal (and many more), then maybe that's enough of a wake-up call to get the system changed.

I know some players are saying they will never accept a salary cap, but that's a relatively easy problem to fix if the owners really want to.  From the owners' standpoint, you show what percentage of revenue is currently being spent on player salaries, then propose a system with true revenue sharing that raises that percentage, with a cap and floor in place.  So instead of 1 player getting $700M, you wind up with seven players getting $100M.  Once you propose a system that gives more overall money to players, but spread out more evenly, then a majority of the players are going to get behind that. 

The key is, do the owners really want to solve this?  Because the current system allows them to just complain about the Dodgers' advantage, but not have to worry about a salary floor each year.  I'm skeptical you will get enough owners to agree to that.

[SeaBass]

Just now, MrTPlush said:

Maybe so, but we are historically great at all the small market stuff…we can’t even sniff a World Series experience.

I guess if your enjoyment as a fan is competing, winning the division often, and have a chance equivalent of the Badgers basketball team winning March Madness then true parity would be bad. If we actually want a realistic chance to win it all, I think I’d rather look more like other sports leagues.

I wonder what Cowboys fans would say about this take.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 minute ago, SeaBass said:

I wonder what Cowboys fans would say about this take.

I imagine most of them realize that their team is, in fact, not well run.

[Playing Catch]

The Brewers improved the team with the best record in baseball. I think it is fair to say that that is hard to do.

And as much as we dislike witnessing the power-starved offense, and crave a big bat, there were very few "starting" quality hitters available. So, you are probably having to try and acquire a platoon/bench hitter. But right now, even though they lack power, those pieces all provide important cover for the each other. The 1st base platoon is fantastic, statistically, Sanchez is a legitimate backup catcher, and right-handed power threat. Hamilton/Ortiz platoon naturally and provide enough pesky qualities to be a positive in the lineup that night, and the outfield is a mash-up of defense and offense and you want most of them in the lineup most nights. DH has been an issue, for sure. But hypothetically, Yelich would represent just the kind of hitter that the Brewers could have acquired at the deadline, and he is obviously, already on the roster.

All of May, Romero, and Senzatela represent guys that reasonable people could expect to play an important role on a playoff roster. The Brewers improved the best team in baseball at the deadline.

[SeaBass]

Just now, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I imagine most of them realize that their team is, in fact, not well run.

That's fair, but they have every resource imaginable available to them. And one huge ego impeding them.

The Packers have one super bowl championship in the last thirty-ish years, Is that what we're expecting with a salary cap? Because I don't think that's all that better odds than what we've been having.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

2 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

That's fair, but they have every resource imaginable available to them. And one huge ego impeding them.

The Packers have one super bowl championship in the last thirty-ish years, Is that what we're expecting with a salary cap? Because I don't think that's all that better odds than what we've been having.

Packers have two in the last 30 years. Since 2>0, that would be better odds ;) 

[SeaBass]

Just now, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Packers have two in the last 30 years. Since 2>0, that would be better odds ;) 

I said "ish". Is it 28 or 27 I didn't want to do the math.

[SeaBass]

3 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Packers have two in the last 30 years. Since 2>0, that would be better odds ;) 

The NFL salary cap was 2 or 3 years old in 1996, you could argue the Packers were already on their way to breaking through without it.

[Matt]

1 minute ago, SeaBass said:

The NFL salary cap was 2 or 3 years old in 1996, you could argue the Packers were already on their way to breaking through without it.

The cap came with free agency, and without free agency I don't think you can say the Packers were on their way. 

[SeaBass]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

The cap came with free agency, and without free agency I don't think you can say the Packers were on their way. 

I think you'd have to build a case that says they definitively couldn't, therefore why I said "you could argue".

[Mischief]

Absolute worst trade of May & Romero for Ragsdale & Frias.  Wait in 3-4 years until these players come back to haunt us. Both athletic, solid D, hit HRs, and hit for average.  Everyday type players, with solid floor and good potential ceiling.

 

Giving up #11 and #13 prospects isn't the problem in a trade, it's what we got for it.  The Brewers got fleeced. 

[SeaBass]

6 minutes ago, Matt said:

The cap came with free agency, and without free agency I don't think you can say the Packers were on their way. 

NFL free agency started in 1993, the salary cap began in 1994. So not tied to the salary cap.

[Thurston Fluff]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

I mean, I’m happy with the guys we got in a vacuum. I can see either or both being big contributors in the playoffs. 

If this was just Ragsdale and a lower guy I could probably get on board. 

Frias is already the number 4 in the Cardinals system. It could be a haunting move. I hope not.

I think the Cards will be more haunted by the guys we still have that are considered better than him. They still have a farm well behind ours after selling for a year and a half. The Cubs just gave up their top prospects just to try to catch up to what we were before the trades we made. One of our biggest rivals went all in to catch us now while the other had to sell to try to have a future anywhere close to what ours still is.

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

NFL free agency started in 1993, the salary cap began in 1994. So not tied to the salary cap.

The salary cap was a direct response to free agency. They absolutely go together. The Packers also don't win a Super Bowl without that defensive line of White, Dotson, and Jones, all free agents. So was the SB MVP. 

 

[MrTPlush]

28 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

I wonder what Cowboys fans would say about this take.

They probably wish there wasn’t parity so they could buy a Super Bowl.

Or if you are referring to the comment about competing, winning a division, but having little chance…I don’t think they like that? I don’t think anyone does. That’s why I think losing advantages in international markets doesn’t matter much. If our goal as fans is the championship, losing our one marginal advantage to take MASSIVE advantages away from the Dodgers is very much worth it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

15 minutes ago, Mischief said:

Absolute worst trade of May & Romero for Ragsdale & Frias.  Wait in 3-4 years until these players come back to haunt us. Both athletic, solid D, hit HRs, and hit for average.  Everyday type players, with solid floor and good potential ceiling.

Giving up #11 and #13 prospects isn't the problem in a trade, it's what we got for it.  The Brewers got fleeced. 

Welcome to Brewer Fanatic!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

22 minutes ago, Mischief said:

Absolute worst trade of May & Romero for Ragsdale & Frias.  Wait in 3-4 years until these players come back to haunt us. Both athletic, solid D, hit HRs, and hit for average.  Everyday type players, with solid floor and good potential ceiling.

 

Giving up #11 and #13 prospects isn't the problem in a trade, it's what we got for it.  The Brewers got fleeced. 

Maybe. We likely won't know that until a few years down the road. I hate giving up on potential. Especially to a division rival.

[SeaBass]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

The salary cap was a direct response to free agency. They absolutely go together. The Packers also don't win a Super Bowl without that defensive line of White, Dotson, and Jones, all free agents. So was the SB MVP. 

 

They traded for Favre in 1992 he wasn't a free agent.

They signed White in a non-capped year. Was money a problem for Green Bay when they signed him? The cap didn't prevent them from signing even more key free agents as you pointed out.

I'm not sure this is an argument that supports a salary cap being the key reason the Packers got to a Super Bowl.

Seems like revenue sharing is a major factor though.

[MrTPlush]

31 minutes ago, Mischief said:

Absolute worst trade of May & Romero for Ragsdale & Frias.  Wait in 3-4 years until these players come back to haunt us. Both athletic, solid D, hit HRs, and hit for average.  Everyday type players, with solid floor and good potential ceiling.

 

Giving up #11 and #13 prospects isn't the problem in a trade, it's what we got for it.  The Brewers got fleeced. 

I remember when we recently had a Top 15 hitting prospect with a 70 hit tool and off the charts bat speed. 

Good times