Game 1 - Packers @ Vikings - Sunday, Sept. 13th @ 3:25 PM

[yourout]

Just now, adambr2 said:

The Packers have been outscored 90-15 after the 3rd quarter in their last 6 games. 

MLF is a OC Masquerading as a HC. Give him a week locked in a film room and he usually comes up with something that works for a half but he is a complete deer in the headlights when that is taken away on top of being a terrible game manager.

[yourout]

0-9 in last 9 in games Micah Parsons has not played for this team.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Is there a soul on the planet, who, even in July, envisioned a scenario where MLF was hoisting a Lombardi Trophy for Green Bay at any point? If the answer is no, you shouldn't be the HC of a team investing the resources they are in Love in Parsons. 

It's just so incredibly frustrating as a fan right now. When expectations are tempered and there is a path forward, you can still enjoy the team. I know the Bucks aren't winning anything, but I'm at least interested in the new regime and seeing what they do with the new pieces and new coaching. The Packers are just in the worst imaginable place right now. Huge assets tied up in win-now pieces with just an overall bad roster with league-worst leadership. There's nothing fun about that. 

[Recovering Chicagoan]

57 minutes ago, yourout said:

MLF is a OC Masquerading as a HC. Give him a week locked in a film room and he usually comes up with something that works for a half but he is a complete deer in the headlights when that is taken away on top of being a terrible game manager.

I wish they hadn’t kept MLF after last season. That said, I doubt the Packers would have won today’s game even with a new head coach.

[yourout]

Just now, Recovering Chicagoan said:

I wish they hadn’t kept MLF after last season. That said, I doubt the Packers would have won today’s game even with a new head coach.

Guty needs to go as well. Mediocre doesn't cut it in this league and MLF and Guty are as Mediocre as it gets..

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Just caught a clip of Tauscher and it took me back to the 2003 offensive line, which I consider the best in franchise history. They were #1 in the NFL in the combined rush yards/sacks allowed per pass play. Ahman Green ran for nearly 1,900 yards and they racked up 160 rush ypg. 

LT Clifton

LG Wahle

C Flanagan

RG Rivera 

RT Tauscher 

All 5 drafted by GB, Clifton the highest pick at 44. The rest were a supplemental, a 6th, 7th and a 3rd. All except Tauscher made a Pro Bowl.  Incredible roster building, and something Green Bay continued doing for YEARS - although that group was exceptional - grabbing long-tenured OL late in the draft. 

Gute has really struggled to replicate that practice. They have invested much earlier picks in OL that just aren't good, and have filled gaps with FA who also just aren't good. We have a 2nd round in Belton who lost his job on a bad unit. Just bad stuff. Doesn't even hit mediocre. The state of the OL is enough to have Gute fired. 

 

[yourout]

8 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Just caught a clip of Tauscher and it took me back to the 2003 offensive line, which I consider the best in franchise history. They were #1 in the NFL in the combined rush yards/sacks allowed per pass play. Ahman Green ran for nearly 1,900 yards and they racked up 160 rush ypg. 

LT Clifton

LG Wahle

C Flanagan

RG Rivera 

RT Tauscher 

All 5 drafted by GB, Clifton the highest pick at 44. The rest were a supplemental, a 6th, 7th and a 3rd. All except Tauscher made a Pro Bowl.  Incredible roster building, and something Green Bay continued doing for YEARS - although that group was exceptional - grabbing long-tenured OL late in the draft. 

Gute has really struggled to replicate that practice. They have invested much earlier picks in OL that just aren't good, and have filled gaps with FA who also just aren't good. We have a 2nd round in Belton who lost his job on a bad unit. Just bad stuff. Doesn't even hit mediocre. The state of the OL is enough to have Gute fired. 

 

No argument here.

[adambr2]

Not to let him off the hook, Gute is an overrated GM — and his failures start and stop with the offensive line. 

He invested a lot in his franchise quarterback. — a 1st round pick, 3 years of holding a clipboard and a whole lot of money. That’s fine and all, but he has done a very poor job of protecting that investment. 

The CB room is usually pretty much patchwork and he doesn’t get nearly enough out of his day 1 picks. There was absolutely no contingency this season for a Josh Jacobs suspension. It’s just a mess of an underskilled committee. 

He’s done a nice job finding JL some targets to throw to. Other than that there’s a whole lot of failure for the guy solely responsible for your personnel. 

[HarveysWBs]

Because it may be germane to the discussion of the two critical play call decisions (the RB toss play on 3rd and 11 and the 4th and 1 QB sneak), MLF said in postgame that both of those were checks at the line of scrimmage, implying that they had different (and presumably more aggressive) plays preferred, but that the defense gave Jordan a scouted look that suggested the check would work better. Both times, the defense was ready for the adjustment and won the chess match.

To me, that does not entirely exonerate LaFleur for those decisions (since it is up to the play designer to provide an effective menu of plays and to prepare the QB to make the best decision there) but Flores was on his game in the second half. Love and LaFleur share that responsibility in those two instances.

The bigger issue remains consistently losing the second half, and specifically the fourth quarter. It is a narrative amply supported by years of anecdotal and statistical data. The media knows it, the players know it, and LaFleur knows it. It hasn’t changed, there have been no signs of improvement, and every new instance just reinforces the feeling that it will keep happening, becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. I cannot fathom a worse way to lose week one after the debacle in Chicago ended last season, barring a horrible injury to Love. It is hard to imagine the team pulling out of this vicious cycle with the current regime. Most fans likely understood this a long time ago.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

20 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

There was absolutely no contingency this season for a Josh Jacobs suspension. It’s just a mess of an underskilled committee. 

Forget about Jacobs contingency. They don't have a backup running back with Jacobs being a model citizen this off-season. And when schlubs like me are pointing it out before Jacobs even got in trouble, what the hell are they doing?

Letting Wilson leave for no money made no sense at the time, and less sense now. They do not have a running back. Everyone on the roster sucks. 

[adambr2]

7 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Forget about Jacobs contingency. They don't have a backup running back with Jacobs being a model citizen this off-season. And when schlubs like me are pointing it out before Jacobs even got in trouble, what the hell are they doing?

Letting Wilson leave for no money made no sense at the time, and less sense now. They do not have a running back. Everyone on the roster sucks. 

When I watch the Brewers, I get emotional and armchair GM but I know in the back of my head that the guys running that organization do a way better job than I could ever do and they usually end up being right.

It’s a really, really bad sign for the leadership of the current Green Bay Packers on how much the hoards of armchair GM’s are actually correct. 

[yourout]

7 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Forget about Jacobs contingency. They don't have a backup running back with Jacobs being a model citizen this off-season. And when schlubs like me are pointing it out before Jacobs even got in trouble, what the hell are they doing?

Letting Wilson leave for no money made no sense at the time, and less sense now. They do not have a running back. Everyone on the roster sucks. 

I wonder how much input MLF has on roster decisions like the running back situation.

[adambr2]

I can’t even root for a tank because we don’t even own our own 1st

Though maybe that’s no loss, Gute would draft some athletic freak with a good RAS at #8 that was projected to go late 1st and we’d redshirt him his first season before finally working him into the rotation in his second season and expect contributions by the third.

[Joseph Zarr]

SO, let me get this straight:

Same O-Line Coach
Same Offensive Coordinator
No FA O-Line additions
Same injured failed 2025 FA acquisition was to be starting LG
Spent one off-season asset drafting Jaeger Burton
Benched Burton after rotating with 1's all TC
Started Donovan Jennings and Jacob Monk

The devolution of the Packers O-Line self-scout started under LaFleur and Steno as O-Line coach. It has evaporated under Butkus. This is an uncanny quagmire.
 

[Joseph Zarr]

Back to LaFleur. You have lost 5 straight coming into Week 1 getting outscored by 53 points in the 4th qtr and OT during that span. You have an opportunity to go ahead by a TD and a two point conversion. You made the FG (!!!). 

The old adage is "Take the points on the road." for obvious reasons. LaFleur simply has zero feel. He does not know the difference between aggressive and reckless. That was the game. I don't care about the refs. I don't care about Jordan checking into the sneak with a woeful bit of execution. The HC has to see the forest for the trees. In that environment. Against Flores. With the lead. 

Just an absurd amount of obliviousness. It truly is absurd. Ben Johnson goes for it on his own 21 because that is Ben Johnson. It's who he is. Matt LaFleur has no identity but near certainty it will be the wrong play; or the wrong execution; at precisely the wrong moment. We are in Packers prison.😅

[adambr2]

13 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Back to LaFleur. You have lost 5 straight coming into Week 1 getting outscored by 53 points in the 4th qtr and OT during that span. You have an opportunity to go ahead by a TD and a two point conversion. You made the FG (!!!). 

The old adage is "Take the points on the road." for obvious reasons. LaFleur simply has zero feel. He does not know the difference between aggressive and reckless. That was the game. I don't care about the refs. I don't care about Jordan checking into the sneak with a woeful bit of execution. The HC has to see the forest for the trees. In that environment. Against Flores. With the lead. 

Just an absurd amount of obliviousness. It truly is absurd. Ben Johnson goes for it on his own 21 because that is Ben Johnson. It's who he is. Matt LaFleur has no identity but near certainty it will be the wrong play; or the wrong execution; at precisely the wrong moment. We are in Packers prison.😅

I thought it was pretty telling when they asked him after the game what the analytics would say about that 4th down call and he said he had no idea and that it wouldn’t be a factor for him. 

It’s pretty clear he has no real decision making process in the 4th quarter other than going with whatever his gut says at any particular time, which is usually wrong judging by the 90-15 score that his team has been outscored by after the 3rd quarter in his last 6 games, 

[Joseph Zarr]

13 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I thought it was pretty telling when they asked him after the game what the analytics would say about that 4th down call and he said he had no idea and that it wouldn’t be a factor for him. 

It’s pretty clear he has no real decision making process in the 4th quarter other than going with whatever his gut says at any particular time, which is usually wrong judging by the 90-15 score that his team has been outscored by after the 3rd quarter in his last 6 games, 

Yeah. LaFleur is very smart and well studied with a week of prep. He is typically a very good first half coach - I still think he is a very good if not elite offensive coordinator. When the bullets fly and he has to adjust and maneuver in real time as a Head Coach? He's just, well, he's pretty horrendous. The track record is most definitely there. He is exactly who he is. That same stuttering fumbling guy at the podium shows up with a playsheet in his hand tasked with leading his football team. What we see time and time again? Mistakes. Failed execution. Poor decision-making (top down). Poor clock management (come on, how shocked were each and every one of you when we had three timeouts in our bag at the end of the first half. Be honest 🤣). This loss got away from them, yes. And, it's just one loss and it's week 1. But, my gods, the loss itself was on brand as it gets. 

[adambr2]

Case in point, punting on 4th and 3 from midfield in the 2nd quarter. An ultra conservative move in today’s NFL.

But in the 4th quarter with a chance to be up 8, taking the points off the board to risk a 4th down because “we’re always going to be aggressive.”

No you’re not. You’re not Ben Johnson, and you’re not Dan Campbell. There’s no method or rhyme or reason. It’s just whatever the magic 8 ball in Matt’s head is telling him at that particular moment. 

[Joseph Zarr]

5 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Case in point, punting on 4th and 3 from midfield in the 2nd quarter. An ultra conservative move in today’s NFL.

But in the 4th quarter with a chance to be up 8, taking the points off the board to risk a 4th down because “we’re always going to be aggressive.”

No you’re not. You’re not Ben Johnson, and you’re not Dan Campbell. There’s no method or rhyme or reason. It’s just whatever the magic 8 ball in Matt’s head is telling him at that particular moment. 

I would wholeheartedly agree here. Not only is there no methodology to the madness (case and point the post-game comments), it very much appears to be based on Matt's emotions or 'feel' in the moment. He didn't have a validation for that stupid decision other than "We could really put them away here!" (which is also just faulty logic), imho. AND, it also just disregards what we'd seen from the O-Line play all day. Again, no feel.

[Jopal78]

2 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Not to let him off the hook, Gute is an overrated GM — and his failures start and stop with the offensive line. 

He invested a lot in his franchise quarterback. — a 1st round pick, 3 years of holding a clipboard and a whole lot of money. That’s fine and all, but he has done a very poor job of protecting that investment. 

The CB room is usually pretty much patchwork and he doesn’t get nearly enough out of his day 1 picks. There was absolutely no contingency this season for a Josh Jacobs suspension. It’s just a mess of an underskilled committee. 

He’s done a nice job finding JL some targets to throw to. Other than that there’s a whole lot of failure for the guy solely responsible for your personnel. 

Wasn’t his error believing he was Micah Parsons away from being a Super Bowl contender? 

A team with a lot of good but not great players believes they’re one step away from the Super Bowl when they haven’t even won their division since 2021, and trades for Parsons when they have holes all over the roster.

[adambr2]

1 hour ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Yeah. LaFleur is very smart and well studied with a week of prep. He is typically a very good first half coach - I still think he is a very good if not elite offensive coordinator. When the bullets fly and he has to adjust and maneuver in real time as a Head Coach? He's just, well, he's pretty horrendous. The track record is most definitely there. He is exactly who he is. That same stuttering fumbling guy at the podium shows up with a playsheet in his hand tasked with leading his football team. What we see time and time again? Mistakes. Failed execution. Poor decision-making (top down). Poor clock management (come on, how shocked were each and every one of you when we had three timeouts in our bag at the end of the first half. Be honest 🤣). This loss got away from them, yes. And, it's just one loss and it's week 1. But, my gods, the loss itself was on brand as it gets. 

I like to put it in terms of the military. LaFleur is that lieutenant platoon leader that can come up with a good tactical game plan that covers terrain, routes, squad assignments, etc.

Then he will lead you into battle, freeze up, and get you killed. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

43 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Wasn’t his error believing he was Micah Parsons away from being a Super Bowl contender? 

A team with a lot of good but not great players believes they’re one step away from the Super Bowl when they haven’t even won their division since 2021, and trades for Parsons when they have holes all over the roster.

The really crummy thing is, if this what Gute felt, he was right until the 2nd half in Denver late last season when Parsons went down.  Once Parsons blew out his knee, the injuries to really good cogs (Wyatt, Kraft, etc) turned the Packers from the top seed in the NFC to the 7 seed, and now here we are.

 

[adambr2]

5 hours ago, yourout said:

MLF is a OC Masquerading as a HC. Give him a week locked in a film room and he usually comes up with something that works for a half but he is a complete deer in the headlights when that is taken away on top of being a terrible game manager.

It doesn’t really even help his “gameplanning guru” narrative when Donavan Jennings takes 0 snaps with the first unit in preseason and he gets killed when Matt deploys him as a starting guard, 

I mean he is constantly making awful decisions like this with his units.

[Jopal78]

5 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

The really crummy thing is, if this what Gute felt, he was right until the 2nd half in Denver late last season when Parsons went down.  Once Parsons blew out his knee, the injuries to really good cogs (Wyatt, Kraft, etc) turned the Packers from the top seed in the NFC to the 7 seed, and now here we are.

 

Nah. Their offense last year had an alarmingly low floor. (10 points against Cleveland, 13 against Carolina, 7 against Philadelphia). Some wins concealed how little separation they created beating the Giants by 7 and Arizona by 4 (both awful teams). A 21-3 lead against the Bears at half time and they needed a Nixon interception at the final seconds to hang on to beat the Bears. A mediocre Dallas team drops 50 on them. And the defense last season was Parsons with a complete collapse of the unit after his injury despite being stocked with high draft picks and free agents. 

They added even more draft picks to the defense to begin this year and Minnesota’s backup quarterback drops 39 points on them. 
 

 

[adambr2]

Here’s the kicker:

Policy had an out last year with the easy excuse and lame duck status, but extended Matt anyway. I don’t know if the terms were ever disclosed, but say 3 years and 45 million would be on the low end of years and average end of dollars for an extended veteran HC.

Since those contracts are fully guaranteed, now he’s stuck. If it were a new HC, I think folks would be more understanding that you can’t just turn everything over one year after installing a new system.

But now if MLF is a (predictable) disaster, Policy either has to wait it out as long as possible, or cut bait quickly and then explain to shareholders why he donated $45 million dollars to the Matt LaFleur fund for no reason at all.