TooLiveBrew

Suppan is probably a 4.75-5.0 ERA pitcher. Demspter maybe a 3.75 ERA pitcher? AAA Cubs lineup.... Brewers have home field advantage.... Unfortunately, I'm not so sure this will be true. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

So many good desktop background possibilities here: I vote #2, crewcrazy. Awesome picture.

Silver Lining thread is fine now. I posted here, and went to check again. Strange.

And blingster, why did you re-post that picture of Prince? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

Glad this discussion was started. I had the exact same question (as the thread title) as I watched tonight. Unless there's a different set of rules for home plate regarding the 'baseline', there's just no way he shouldn't have been called out.

The Silver Lining Thread is stuck on a blank page 34. I just posted in there, but it doesn't show. I know the thread was 'stuck' like this since at least this morning.

I don't need more confidence; I'll never need more confidence -- Ryan Braun, 9/25/08 after hitting a walk-off grand slam

Buried in the comments of this post on Richard Justice's blog is a long piece on bunting by Mitchell Lichtman (one of The Book guys). Did you catch Justice's response a few posts down (edited into someone else's comment): ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mitchel Lichtman is one of the authors of The Book, and I believe he was once a consultant for the Cardinals. [i don't care if he was nominated to the Supreme Court. I just want to know if it was the right move for Cecil Cooper to bunt in that situation. That's the problem in dealing with the stat geeks. They've got so much stuff in their brains they can't get a coherent thought out.--Richard] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Justice, you are an ignorant tool that knows little about the sport you cover. That's the problem in dealing with sportswriting geeks. They've got so much stuff in their brains not based on anything whatsoever factual that they can't get a thought out that doesn't waste everyone's time in reading it. Justice got absolutely eaten alive in the comments after that little bit of crap. Very reassuring to see. His edited-in comments get even less coherent. Here's Lichtman's response: Wow. If you are serious with that statement, you are a real (deleted)..... I'd rather be incoherent. Thanks for the appreciation for the time I took to write a thoughtful primer on the value of the sac bunt attempt. Clearly you know little about it yourself, despite "checking with stat people" or whatever it is you said you did. Justice responds: Now you send in a post with a profanity. What's wrong with you? All I wanted to know is if Cecil Cooper should have bunted. The bottom line is you don't know if he should have or not. Just say, ''I don't know.'' Everyone knows there are eight thousand possibilities. It's the same way at Whataburger, but I've got enough sense to say ''No. 1 with cheese.'' It's ''yes'' or ''no'' on bunting. Did you expect Cecil Cooer to convene a geek convention and hold a six-hour roundtable. Good Lord.--Richard Lichtman: I don't care whether the bunt attempt in question was correct or not, and I am not going to take the time to try and figure out whether it was clearly correct, clearly not correct, or close enough that it didn't matter. Had you called or written me or one of my colleagues before you wrote this blog entry, and before you insulted me with childish invective and snark humor, I would have been more than happy to have answered your question. Between the information I gave you and your readers in my post, and the 51 page sac bunt chapter in The Book, you could probably figure it out yourself. If you are bright enough - or not too lazy to do some of the leg work yourself. That was actually one of the points in writing the book - to give people the requisite information to form cogent opinions about things like that - not to "tell them" whether a certain particular strategy choice was correct or not. What am I, "Ask Jeeves?" After some more grade-school crap from Justice, and even Tangotiger weighing in, the best summation came from a reader named Bryan: Mitchel, try not to take Justice too seriously. He generally treats people on this blog pretty bad, it's just his shtick. He's also pretty clueless on the finer points of baseball and his opinion wont be swayed, dont bother with him.

I would expect him to hold a grudge or something, but this is a nice act Same here, jjfan -- kill 'em with kindness, I guess. Classy stuff, Eric. Well done.

I believe Brian and/or Bill said it was a standing ovation Yeah, they definitely said this, and it sounds like it was pretty embellished. Did anyone else notice that when FSN-WI went to commercial after Bush's 2nd inning, they cut the stadium sound out & just played music as the audio? It was presented as just an innocent 'going to commercial' thing, but I fully expected to hear some booing as Dave walked back to the dugout. Can anyone that was in attendance confirm or deny FSN-WI dodging the boos? And if they did do that, kudos to FSN-WI.

Hopefully people that were quick to discredit Scott Bartell and our show will be prompt to give credit where credit is due. What's fair is fair. For someone that observed this thread & its unfurling after 'real time', I can say it's very much a big turnoff how blatantly you've been pimping your site & the personal name. If the whole thing would have been on the issue of Gallardo, that's one thing, but it appears (again, I'm reading this well after it initially took place) that you took every chance to regurgitate the duo of names. Turn-off. Tyler Perry presents... a movie by Tyler Perry... written & directed by Tyler Perry... starring Tyler Perry... Tyler Perry's Tyler Perry

Hart was a guy I thought would really bust out this year but he has really struggled in the second half. He seems to get a pass with the focus on Hall/Counsell, Weeks, Kendall but Hart has been borderline bad in the second half. His OBP is .275 since the All Star game, that is horrid for a corner outfielder. This is really what I'm concerned about, too. Chalking it up to fatigue holds no water for me. Corey Hart's approach at the plate is very badly broken imho, and needs to be fixed. Hart has gotten a free pass almost the entire time he's struggled. Meanwhile, Rickie Weeks has actually been hitting for months now, and is still railed on for his offense.

The natural counterpoint, however, is that by sacrificing the runner from first to second, the probability of scoring at least one run does actually increase. Thanks for bringing that in. I would grab that chart... but I don't know where to find it. I think one of my fundamental disagreements with whatever Small Ball is would be that (esp. with how the game is played now) I hate the concept of giving away outs in the pursuit of single runs at a time.

I'm sorry, but Prince is supposed to be an everyday player, and wants to be paid as much, he needs to hit LHP. Prior to games on 9/24/08, Prince Fielder career v. LHP: .246/.327/.465/.793 Ryan Howard career v. LHP: .231/.315/.470/.785

That chart you provided.....I have no idea how to read it, but from what it looks like to me is that if there is a guy on second with nobody out the team scores on average 1.14 runs per inning, and when theres a guy on first with nobody out the teams score an average of .89 runs. You're reading the chart correctly for the two scenarios you just described... but the discussion was about sacrifices or 'productive outs'... so you want to look at a runner on 1B with no outs v. a runner on 2B with one out. Runner on 1B, 0 out = .898 Runner on 2B, 1 out = .689 Why pay him so much money for him to provide something we already have. But we don't already have Cameron in that sense. We have other players at other positions. This isn't an investment portfolio, where you diversify for the sake of not relying on one specific element of the market. This is a lineup of 8 position players, where you want the best possible answer you can find at each of the 8 spots. Brantley in 2009 is not going to be better than Cameron, and TGJ is still going to suck. And, as has already been addressed, finding comparable or superior production to Cameron for less than his $10M price tag in free agency is not a likely scenario at all. Now if you somehow trade for Grady Sizemore or someone that's a pre-FA player who can provide equal or superior production to Cam, of course that's a different story. he doesnt provide anything offensively that 3 or 4 guys dont already provide......25+ HRs, 70+ RBI, few walks, lots of strikeouts. This has become totally warped by your admitted hatred of strikeouts. Cameron's BB total is 3d on the team, and you're neglecting the fact that he's amassed that tally even with missing almost a full month of the season.

I'd just like to weigh in with my thoughts last night at the time of the Fielder blast... AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Sheffield needs to realize no one cares about him... Easier said than done. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Go away Gary... please. Heck, with a .223/.321/.389/.710 (87 OPS+) line, you could argue he already has.

Part of the problem imo with 'Small Ball' is that it isn't defined well, if at all. The best way I understand to this point is that 'Small Ball' necessitates OBP (there's no such thing as a 'productive out' with no one on base... it just gets called 'crappy hitting' then), yet seems to value one run over multiple runs. Anytime you're happy and/or readily willing to give up outs to advance runners 90 feet, your chances at run scoring decrease. A runner on 2B with 1 out is NOT giving a better chance even at scoring just the one run than a runner at 1B with no outs. One other thing I seem to get from 'Small Ball' is that you play to avoid double plays as much as possible. Ok, can't find a ton of fault there... but the trouble then becomes that putting runners in motion can result in a lot of bad outcomes, too. A sort of 'delayed double play', if the runner is thrown out on a hit-&-run (runners don't get good SB jumps on h&r's... they delay a bit longer) & the batter follows with an out, a line-out double-play where the runner is caught off 1B, a batted ball hitting a runner in motion that otherwise would not have been near the ball, etc. I think 'Small Ball' is another way of saying, 'Play to avoid outcomes that really really irritate some people'. I understand the rationalizing in terms of feeling better ('hey, at least he didn't strike out'), but when it's broken down in terms of the ultimate objectives of the offense... don't make outs, score runs... 'Small Ball' actually decreases the chances. Here is Baseball Prospectus's Run Expectations generator. You can select any season & see what the run expectancies are for all the base-out states. That all being said...why spend $10 million on a guy, Cameron, that does exactley what everyone else does? No one else does exactly what he does. He's a better hitter than Corey Hart at this point, and plays far better defense at a premium position. If you want to argue that 2009 is not the right season in which to 'take a shot', and therefore we should let Cameron move on, I can get on-board with that. But to submit that he's the 'same' as 'everyone else' is just way off-base.

I have been wondering what long term impact this unorthodox decision will have in the community of "baseball men" in relation to the image of the Brewers franchise. Below are 2 quotes from the fraternity - and there's got to be some bite from every major league mananger on the topic - that, of course, have Ned's back. If we can avoid the Bobby Coxes & Ron Gardenhires of the managerial world, I'm all for it. Keep the baseball truthiness out of Milwaukee! "Yeah well, you know, I tell you, that's nuts. That's crazy. I don't know. Here's a guy who's done a pretty good job. I don't want to go there. I hid in the bathroom. I know that." How on earth is Ron Gardenhire aware of what kind of job Ned Yost had done? I can guarantee you he doesn't have enough free time on his hands to make a valid assessment. ... And what the heck do those last two sentences mean? Why would he say he 'hid in the bathroom'?

I think a lot of the booing was really Yost related. We'll get a chance to see, I guess. Given his poor interactions with the media & the fans through the media, it wouldn't surprise me.

I'm just worried that this site is going to be super negative if the Brewers don't get in. If they do get in, this site will be flooding with positive thoughts -- and I look forward to it. Maybe this should be in the Silver Lining thread, but I fully agree, JJ7. If the team can't get to the promised land, I sincerely hope that Brewers fans can keep things in perspective. I hope frustration that the team didn't fulfil both its & the fans' main goal doesn't cloud the fact that this has been the best season Brewers fans have had to enjoy in 15 seasons. Getting Gallardo back will go a long way in this short stretch to crossing that hallowed threshold. I can't say that I'm one for getting Yovani out there for a starting appearance. At this point, I hope he has been able to adapt himself to the different process of getting ready to come into a game on a reliever's timeclock. If not, then I'd guess a 3 or 4 inning start would have to be the way to go.

I think logan was talking about console gaming, not PC. Iirc, if you have Xbox, your only baseball choice is 2K sports.

but a veteran like Cameron should know what he has to do. Like get on base 36% of the time & drive in a lot of runs in said scenario?

Prince Fielder Last 7 days: .462/.533/1.038/1.572 Last 14 days: .400/.483/.840/1.323 Last 28 days: .298/.389/.543/.931 September: .319/.410/.639/1.049 It's pretty crazy to think that this insane month of September Prince has been having is basically what we got treated to all season long last year. Makes it easier to understand why many fans had been frustrated and/or disappointed with Fielder this summer.

I understand these were generic examples, paul253, but I think it's a good example of perception v. reality: Similarly, I get just as scared when theres a guy on third with one out and Cameron comes up. Or when theres someone on second with nobody out and Hardy or Braun or Weeks comes up. The lack of small ball has killed this team in the last month. 2008 -- Mike Cameron, runner on 3B & less than 2 outs: .316/.360/.526/.886 The Cameron-bashing this year borders on craziness imho. Yes, no one likes strike outs, but this has become a sort of 'forest for the trees' thing.