brewcrewdue80

If Cain or Yelich are up, yes. Not so with the rest. Travis Shaw says hello

Game 3 of 5 seasons of this!

Christian Yelich everybody!

The strike zone has been tighter to Suter than Perdomo, but Suter not pitching well today regardless. Was almost like til the HR given up Suter had 0 pitches below the belt much less knees. Perdomo has been filthy vs Santana. Villar looks like a pitcher in 2ABs. I get a feeling Arcia will be starting more now with his ability vs. The ability Sogard/Villar

Well, the Cain/Jeffress and Gallardo signings leave me an idea Lawrie would be AAA signing 3b. That was his prospect position, and I know he's played 2nd. So theres always that he could play should 2b need it. Maybe A Perez watch needs to put on notice. Aside from 3b he's really not needed and his bat just lacks value.

Hey I called this top 5 after yelich/cain day.

Nah. Puk will still make the Majors before Ray does since he's likely never to play a full season in it.

Sleeper to be Medieros Breakout to be Ponce Disappointments to be Grisham or Ray Comeback to be Kirby I think this year Medieros has his SP role moved to RP and his nastiness rivals Hader's Ponce is just under-rated. Somehow a 2nd round pick who goes 137IP under 3.4ERA at 6'6" with 4 pitches to pull from and improving his pitching isn't garnering attention like he should.... Let's look at why. K rate for '17. I'm going continues to improve his pitching, maybe even finding 1MPH back on his FB and the Ks follow. Will be in the top 100 before the season ends.

Late to the party but here we go with some kind of list to start the season 1. Corbin Burnes-Closer to the Bigs than Hiura at this stage equal ceilings 2. Hiura-For now with the hype to his bat. Defense will take him down this season if he doesn't prove he's average there. 3. Woodruff- Comped him to Lance Lynn. Look forward to him 200IP 32-33 Starts a season under 4ERA 4. Tristan Lutz-a lot of praise another OF to logjam us even more 5. Lucas Erceg- Erceg was Lutz in '16 6. Brett Phillips- He's not a 90win OF but a quality 80win fit OF. If his K issues ever improve he'll be more than a 4th OF. 7. Cody Ponce- He's the future Woodruff. This year will prove to a lot he's so under-rated 8. Jake Gatwood- Super improved last season, very talented and he continues climbing closer to his ceiling vs. that floor 9. Freddy Peralta 10. Luis Ortiz-step back not living up to his ceiling, behind in IP for AA level 11. Troy Stokes- Results, much like a Krush Davis w/o the recognition. (only he can take a walk) At this point, I'm not as high/super excited with these and it really doesn't matter in order 12a to12m? Grisham Williams Medeiros Lemons Brown KJ Harrison Dubon Supak Carlos Rodriquez Ray Diplan Nottingham Houser Feliciano 12.

Who started this and why? Please no more Cain talk. Hes on the 25man all season and the next 4. So close to having this 25man declared and its debbie downer crap on a player likely to be top 3 on the team this season.

It was 80 pitches and more. He went over 100 in a game. You said So you have suter who burns out easy And the examples I've given you was showing he doesn't. You are refusing to accept that he can and the fact Managers pulled him before he could attain these. See minor league pitchers have Innings limits put on them. Removing the pitcher when it appears he often completed 5 IP. and he'd be under 70 pitches. He pitches to contact, it's softer due I'd guess to his velocity as well as his height creating vertical drop. So he is efficient often in the minors and in games pitched in the Majors to be at or under 70 pitches when he's thrown 5IP. He doesn't burn out easy as to your claim.

2017 Minor League starts over 80 pitches-3 of 9 1 being a rehab start. 2016 Minor League starts over 80 pitches-5 of 15 including 3 of last 4 95, 94, 96. 2015 Minor League starts over 80 pitches-12 of 17. 1 over 100 pitches. It is false that he burns out easy. It's strictly a gameplan by Counsell as well as circumstances that limited him being stretched out due to long relief/swingman role vs. an every day starter. His longest outing in July actually came 5 days after a 1IP Relief outing.

Suter was used in so many ways last year, he wasn't asked to go deep into games for most of the season. But you know what, here's what he did in July when he was starting consistently: 6.0 6.1 4.2 6.0 7.0 So not only CAN he do it, he has done it. And if 6 innings is what qualifies as a "#3" then Chase Anderson must be a 4/5 since he only averaged a tad higher than 5.5 innings pitched per start. Followed by 3 bad starts in August 14.1 ip 13 era and a 3 week dl stint. Pay no mind. Jimmy Nelson at end of April 3 starts: 15.2IP 15ER Or how about also mid August since you want to pick at Suter's small sample of starts. 2 starts 10IP 12ER with the next start of 5IP 3ER makes two 3 game stints where he allowed 15Run in 15IP. Your partner in debate 82Brewcrew82 as we know after probably 500 posts combined between you two hating the rotation as it sits, really give no upside consideration. His July numbers posted above forgot to point out he allowed a total of 3 runs in those 4 starts. So it's not just arguing he can go 6 or more IP, but he can while giving up few runs. Those starts were 82-97 pitches thrown. His final 3 starts he went 15.1IP so 5 while averaging 69 pitches thrown. It's Counsell's decision to remove him early when he clearly could continue in to a 6th inning possibly in to the 7th. Will Counsell keep him on a short leash this year? We'll find out. He had a 3.45 ERA as a Starter and 3.18 as a RP. Not 4.5 or 5 ERA, but listening to you two talk bad about him or Woodruff you'd think they both were 5ERA pitchers and never pitched in to the 6th innings.

You said it yourself. The likes of Cobb/Lynn and even Archer don't even change that the Cubs' rotation is better than the Brewers. There are 2 top 100 pitchers the Brewers can pull from. Woodruff maybe from opening day. Newsflash to most here that argue our pitching isn't enough to compete with the Cubs. Maybe 3 or 4 teams in all of MLB have the pitching to compete with the Cubs. So I am all for the approach to improve the offense that Stearns took in getting Cain and Yelich. Cain is clearly an upgrade over the team's CF options. Yelich is a game changer. There doesn't need to be a spot for him as he is better than anything Milwaukee had. Pulling that trade off is remarkable. The hit on the Brewers minors was they don't have Studs just quanity with some quality. Yelich is 5 years of complete stud in his prime. He's been 77 OPS points better on the road vs his home stats in his career. 81 games becomes 3 or 4 in a season now for him. The regular season is 162 games and the team is better in many areas that were questionable going in to last season. Be patient many on this team is controlled for 3+ years. And the minors is better today than probably it's been since I began watching Brewer games in 1985. It's going to be a fun, winning year that most likely ends being playoff bound.

Holland is not signing for under 10million to play this season. He'll hold out as he took the discount last year and already declined a deal worth more than 10mil a year. He's very good. if Schwarzak is worth 7mil a year, Holland is easily worth 10+. Wade Davis 3/52mil is what he turned down supposedly. 17mil a year. He's 32 already taken a pay cut, He'll be sitting out for at least 3 years, probably wants that career ending 4year with 5th year option type of contract. I'd expect teams that are within the Luxury threshold are working hard for some kind of say 3-5mil contract for 2018 and 20mil the years after when they aren't paying tax.

The thought on Wilkerson not giving full effort. I'd think could come as being on a team that was outscored by 84 or more points 5 of his 7 seasons with only 1 winning season(he had 12 sacks/probowl) Put on a winning team, actually having a chance playing for a Super Bowl I'd think his effort improves especially on a 1year deal.

Can Taylor or Hernandez play 3rd? I honestly don't know. If one of them can, it may open up something in the OF but even that seems like a stretch (I know your post was tongue and cheek). buster olney replied this morning on espn that Logan Forsythe would slide over and the Dodgers have a lot of depth to absorb this, just Turner won't be batting in between Seager and Bellinger as the big loss. Also a concern on how this kind of injury is likely not something that will this season and he'll be playing through it likely the whole season. Which of course affects his projection this year.

Don't see at before this season starts, to acquire him. Seems he lost velocity coming up, but did have that velocity a bit higher last year, not to any added effect unlike Anderson. I'd have to prefer waiting near the deadline on making a deal if he shows progress. He is just 26 and 6'5" so a minor tweak and improvement could net some very positive results. I just don't want to spend resources to get him at this time because generally speaking he has borderline AAAA results lately. Jorge Lopez was a top 100 too around when Cole was.

Don't get me wrong because I'm okay with the rotation too, but I don't think it works this way. Quantity over quality doesn't mean anything with starters. You can only choose one of them for each spot in the rotation, and by the time you realize you chose the wrong one, you would have cost yourself several crucial games. Out of Guerra, Miley, Gallardo, Woodruff, Suter, Burnes, and Wilkerson, there's probably an 80% chance one of them would have a great season this year if given the opportunity. The problem is that you can't give all of them that opportunity. Not even close. My reasons for not wanting to add a starter are more about finances, draft picks, and the maximizing the best window of contention, which is not this year. The Nats will fade soon and the Cubs will be deep in the luxury tax with a weak farm system. See what you have in Suter, Woodruff, and Burnes; they're just as likely as Guerra or Gallardo to have a good season anyway. Dodgers had 10 pitchers get starts last year, 13 the season before that. Kershaw led the team with 175IP Kenta Maeda the season before with 175.2IP Quantity allows your team to withstand injuries, 15-45 day injuries forcing option 6,7,or 8 to take their turn on the mound. It's one thing that I believe the Brewers are ahead of the Cubs who are a TJ away from depleting that awesome 5man staff. 6IP 3ER is considered a quality start while at the same time being a 4.5ERA doing so. Give guys the ball who should beat 4.25ERA and we'll be fine throughout the regular season. Worry more about the Playoff Rotation as the trade deadlines come.

Looked at the box score for yesterdays game. 6IP by Anderson. Wow I don't recall ST starts even towards the end having pitchers go 6IP. This is great as typically I feel the staff is underprepared and only stretched for 75 pitches or so opening day and last through 5IP but not able to pitch beyond 6. I hope this continues with Chacin, and whoever is in line for 4 and 5. Be nice to start the season not relying on RPs to get us 4 IP nearly every game the first week to 10 days.

I agree with this. I am not convinced that Anderson is the pitcher we saw last year. I surely hope that is the case, but I would like to see the continued uptick in velocity to feel better about it. As to Woodruff, I think a lot of people on this board are having a hard time putting him in the rotation because that is what most are expecting. Typical Brewers fashion seems to trend towards older experienced veterans(good or bad) instead of a young prospect. I don't think it's people don't want him in the rotation, but that people are expecting the let down of having Guerra, Miley, etc starting. Well? How is Anderson's velocity this spring? Anyone? With 33 Starts he's around 195IP How about Davies' velocity? Went 191IP last season We pick up a guy in Chacin who went 180 last season and near 200 in the past for Colorado of all teams! Woodruff pitched 158innings in 2016. He should be able to go 180 with full health. Then you have #5 Suter Can handle around 160 which easily takes us in to Nelson's return and/or the trade deadline. Guerra a backup or Miley doesn't matter. Just overall the idea that the rotation is going to be garbage and a tired bullpen due to it isn't true on the normal basis. Some years back full of posts with how bad the rotations had been, it was idea'd? that 2 #2s and 3 #3s would be a good enough rotation to get the team in the playoffs. Anderson/Davies/Nelson are #2s ideally when good. #3s on average. Chacin=typical #3. Woodruff should be a #3 in due time. Suter has #2/3 ability 2 times through an order. Bullpen is stocked with quality RPs this season. Hader/Kneble known but Albers and Logan are better than the mistake prone RPs of last season. Cobb can improve #5 stats, but this team moving forward with it's depth doesn't need him as much as a lot think. And the money and years just don't mesh at this time apparently to sign him. If I could run the Pitching, I'd go Anderson, Davies, Chacin, #4 being Suter/ Miley or Guerra piggyback with the idea on Suter facing 18 batters and Guerra/Miley 18 batters if needed. It goes beyond that the game score dictates the bullpen usage if you have Guerra/Miley complete the game. Use the 25th man to complete it or use your studs. #5 is Woodruff. Having the ability to skip his turn at times allows him to pitch through a full season w/o innings limits. If Suter is dealing, Counsell can let him pitch to the top of the order again 19, 20, 21 faced til he gives up that next hit showing he's not effective the 3rd time through. You'd hopefully get about 4.5innings from both on the average 30 starts on the season. 135innings by both. At the same time giving the Bullpen itself a full days rest for #5 starter Woodruff.

Braun's durability is what I'm up in arms about. Thames having to play 1b full time and vs Leftys. Thames handling that workload and not injuring himself. But I suppose the JiMan is an option, so long as he stays on the team in the minors.

This is partly my concern and suggestion on Santana to AAA while Keeping Aguilar. Thames wasn't the full term product of health last season. Do you see where this is going? Thames mixed with Braun at 1b waiving Aguilar leads to the when do one or the other go down for their injury? What of both at the same time? Now we are playing Perez at 1b? Perez at 3b and Shaw to 1b? .257/.283/.388/.671 That is Perez's career slash line. And he barely beat that last year 259/289/414/704 Do you get the process of thinking?

Stated previously. Colorado in 2019. AAA backup for 2018.

Nelson missing 1/3rd the season or more and performance risk I don't think his Arby raise will be all too much. Not over 7.5mil. Anderson's 2mil raise is offset by Sogard right there. Or Chacin's 2mil drop from this season. Cain's increasing salary is negated by Braun's decreasing salary. Combined it's 34, 34, 33, and 32 if Braun's option picked up. Kneble is the only concerning Arb raise imo over the next 2 seasons. Travis Shaw comes in to play 2020 when a lot of these 1 and 2 year contracts are gone.(prospect Pre-Arb depth) Santana would be a concern, but he's on the trade market. I'm not expecting him to stay on this team for that to happen. As to the Houston comparison and comment on getting Verlander, Houston won 101 games last season. Acquired Verlander at 80-53 record September 1st morning. Full season Cobb doesn't make this team 100-win projection. He may give us a better chance of achieving 90 wins but honestly, that's pushing us for 1st wildcard behind the 100win abilities of Washington, LA Dodgers, and Cubs. A poster not to long ago, said(paraphasing) that Maybe Stearns is building this team not on the premise to go for it and win this season. Which is exactly what I want him doing. I didn't want to blow the minors up with an Archer trade. Nelson is an unknown contributor moving forward. Maybe that's why you got Chacin for 2 years. Replace Nelson's innings now. Good Nelson he's actually more attractive to trade next offseason owed under 7mil. Especially if he has a productive season. Bad Nelson and you have the depth to absorb that heading in to 2019 with the minors SPs that much closer to pitching every 5 days. Maybe Stearns changed his direction when he acquired Yelich and immediately signed Cain that he was going to be patient with the SPs: Woodruff, Hader, Burnes, and down the line Ponce, Peralta, etc. The Pitching would depth would reduce the payroll as you fill them in and move on from the starters you have today. Say Nelson is #3 quality and you don't want to extend him so with him going year to year he's traded next offseason. Moves like that. Tampa Bay's SPs filling their depth for a decade. He's a little backed in to a corner currently with the OF situation, but I'm sure it will solve itself in due time. Injuries(our team or their's) and fixing the crunch during that time. Monty, you posted going with 2 of Miley, Guerra, Suter, and Woodruff? that we are planning on winning more games 12-10. I mean, that's a bit odd for your typical posts, but it is a seeming narrative to those that have been pushing for Big 3 of 4 SP signing. As if not only will going 4IP and giving up 4-6runs, but as if the bullpen is going to just implode and give up 5-6 more. This year's bullpen is far better than last year's. But it's like they are ignored when guys like Taylor Williams and Freddy Peralta, even Cody Ponce/Adrian Houser are on the cusp to join the duo studs of Hader/Kneble who are an Elite tandem at this stage already. Then the added improvement in offense. Milw avg'd 4.5runs according to BRef which was the lowest of the top 12 MLB records last season. I'd fully expect this team to be more around top 12 in the 5.0 range moving forward with Yelich and Cain added. For Pitching references: Top 12 had 2 under 4.0 runs Cleveland and LA Dodgers. Every other team was 4.1-4.9 (Milw at 4.3) No Garza, No Peralta, No Torres, Feliz, Milone, Espino, Blazek, and Wang inflated ERAs. (Drake?) That's something around 310-365IP or 35-40 games worth removed of terrible pitching. So in the end even if we take out that bad and add the poor projections put on this pitching, what are we? 4.4RA vs 4.3 last year? We're staring at an offense scoring 5.0 runs per game. The Cubs avg 5.1-4.3 and won 92 games last year. Colorado 5.1-4.7 won 87 games. We can head in where we stand and be a Wild Card team with depth to change as needed if a push is desired. As well as Money to work with that comes in to question adding another 15million multiple year'd contract.