TJseven7

I'm ok with not getting Darvish because its been hard for me to get sold on the idea of 25 mil on a 30+ pitcher who hasn't been the freak he was since he passed his prime. I'd rather have gone after Grienke at his huge offer. I don't question what Darvish has done or how amazing he can be at times but 200 ip low 3 ace he hasn't been. I get very few are that but thats what I imagine for 25 mil per. I'd go 30 mil per for that. I don't love the inbetween. Its not a realistic option (wouldn't likely come here) but I'd easily go after machado for 30 mil at SS before I went after Darvish at 25. A solid deep rotation that can bat machado Huira (if he pans out) up the middle would be very hard to beat. I just don't believe small market teams should put that much into a pitcher unless they are trying to keep or steal a sale kershaw plus a small number of etcs. Nelson Anderson Davies Chacin Woodruff (hopefully) or burnes ortiz are they types I feel we should aim for. Reasonable contracts on mid 3 to sub 4 era guys. Strong offense and pen. If you are on the cusp... deal for verlander gray Q darvish, but that big arm is a icing on the cake move... we got to focus on making the cake well.

Im ok with Ortiz Diaz Lutz being off the list because they could be up there in a big way with a good 1st half... but Ray needs to stop depressing me. Ps I'd deal Brinson for Mejia in a heartbeat.

So I'm wondering why people think all in is coming. The ellsbury rumors are the opposite of all in. I get that a Darvish offer is a big now move but its also a move that could be traded to the team that loses the sweepstakes next year. Markets gripping so you buy in now, and sell when the buyers miss their mark and have money to blow. Basically az grienke, mke darvish... but we'd be buying low at 125 or 150 over 5 or 6. Cuz the market is tight.

To be completely honest, while I like that we added an arm like Ortiz, there wasn't a single player in that texas package I wanted more than mejia. The thought of the potential in mejia huira is offensely siesmic. Having those bats at 2b and C makes the rest of the lineup almost easy to fill out. Mejia Huira Diaz all pan out and thats a championship caliber offense. Corners and OF be damned. The ellsbury deal talk is incredibly interesting to me. Thats a lot of cash coming our way and the yankees system is loaded due to big money int buying and the sell off year. Shaw for ellsbury and how many top 100 prospects...3? A pitcher and 2 bats. Pushes back the window without a doubt but would likely put the farm at #1 overall. If they push back the window and get a haul for shaw and eating ellsbury, and get mejia somehow from cle. Well this year would sting for sure but 2020 could make weeks fielder hart look like childs play. Wouldn't be a talent wave, would be a tsunami.

Fulmer would cost a ton but he's a heck of a target. I wonder how they see that fitting in with anderson davies chacin woodruff and good news on nelson. Burnes Ortiz are not THAT far away either.

But none of that is harmful. Some stuff reported is exaggerated... likely true and meaningless to any specific case Some stuff that hasn't been reported publically... literally could be anything. It would not surprise me if we make a substancial move... with how many things they are linked to be working on and add things they are working on that (no one is reporting) he's merely saying, we are in the mix for something big. Which seems to always be the case with him. That doesn't hurt leverage. It helps drive up prices as the brewers are in the market for something substancial. Literally could be anything at this point. The interesting part, keep you waiting a little longer. A little. Thats like saying I expect something to come together soon. Just waiting on dominos to fall. It'd be really easy to say, we're done. From reading it I has the vibe of... ok how little can I say while saying enough to keep them clued in and excited. Some gms lie... some gms are silent. He's shown to be more the silent type. Things trickle out later that show we were in the bidding but got outbid. The need to point out there's stuff you don't even know we're working on... its to boast tgat we keep things underwraps here. I'd kinda be stunned if we aren't buying something or trading for something big in the next two weeks. Unless the market heats up all of a sudden I see no reason to avoid it and he's pointed to buying power. He's waiting out the market. Granted "substancial" could be neil walker at 10/2. I wonder how we handle the cool market on santana mixed with brinson phillips harrison lutz, then grisham ray etc. Lots of bodies there. The weeding out the 40 nan process is already well under way.

Im a big Lance Mccullers fan too. Not sure if he can ever get his innings up as high as you'd want but he's not near his upside. Eduardo Rodriguez seems to fit as well.

Glad we kept Wang over a guy everyone seemed to want. Or 1 of 2 catchers we clearly wont keep. Or drake. Or....

Dylan Bundy. Has been solid but there's more there. Woulda said Taijan Walker a year ago.

3 plus war bats dont net 2 arms. That's hilarious. Those days are dead and gone.

Im off reed if davis just set the market... no thank you

I'm not so sure it's only going to continue (EDIT: The constantly skyrocketing closer trades/salaries that is, I agree that the trend of starters covering fewer innings will continue). At some point the diminishing returns will mean other areas of the bullpen give you bigger upgrades with each $ spent (Although of course if you already have 7 above average relievers and a great team overall, then a Wade Davis will make sense at higher prices as well. But there aren't many of those teams around at any one point) Are we at that point yet? I don't know, but at some point we will be. If anything, I think the multi-inning relievers will see increased importance and more money allocated. And not just the Andrew Miller "fireman" types or the multi-inning saves, but in general valuing the added flexibility that gives you in using your setup guys and closer when you need them the most. Yes. If average start stays the same or even declines, relievers who can go multiple innings are as valuable as a closer. Used to be the long relief guy was used to eat innings during a blow-out. These days, wouldn't it be nice to have a couple guys who could go 2 innings in close games? I think this a trend we'll see. Just makes more sense than paying huge money to a 7th inning guy, 8th inning guy, and closer. Especially when they all need rest at times. So you mean Hader ;-) This is too much. Good for him and good for colo if that's what they want but if we did this I'd be speechless in a bad way. Makes me really wish we had cishek at his price over this nonsense. Where did cishek land again... oh thats right. Don't count on theo being dumb.

Guerra when healthy pitched 20 starts and 121 ip. Was a great run. Has not looked durable at all. Got hurt in April. Came back in May early june with 15.2 and 2 er in 3 gs. Then fell apart and showed no signs of getting right the rest of the year. Why do people assume it was health? I know he got hurt... but he came back fine then imploded from mid june thru the seasons end. Why 3 guerra like starts then an implosion. If he got rehurt he'd be back on the dl... if he wasn't right when he cam back he wouldnt have been sub 2 for 3 starts.

It's really hard to believe this team would be any good with a starting rotation of Anderson Davies and insert 3 of Woodruff Suter Guerra Jungemann Wilkerson Ventura Derby. We tried that roller coaster last year with Garza Peralta Guerra Espino and turned to Suter when we lost Anderson... and got Woodruff and Anderson back when we lost nelson and suter. We didn't sign Fiers and I highly doubt we paid Gallardo or plan on putting him in the rotation. Without Nelson starting the year we are in a deep dark hole of uncertainty without someone like chacin who could be a big stabalizing force in that rotation. It's very unlikely we could throw that much stuff against the wall in our rotation without burying ourselves before we find the right mix. Last year out of the gates had 3 who appeared to be guys we could trust. Suter saved the anderson injury. I don't think what are proposing even gets us back to that level. Not to mention we refuse to bat Walker where his bat belongs. So despite it not being a true trade off, if it were I'm still not taking a 2b upgrade and rotation chaos over rotation stability and more 2b crap. Basically and in summation... until we sign a cobb arrieta or lynn I think your opinion is completely wrong.

To the original topic... Anderson davies chacin woodruff Guerra Seems to be the best fit. Gallardo has great numbers in a small sample size as a reliever. The early game numbers look dreadful though. But Guerra, even in last years disaster was a 3.6 era guy thru 4 ip. That's a piggy back guy. You cuff him with Suter and thats interesting. Woodruff hader works as well. You can keep woodruff building towards 200 ip while not forcing the issue this year. Hader can "start" out of the pen and on days where he's grooving he can go 4 ip and close it out. I don't think these piggyback arrangements work in the "real world." What if another starter has a bad start and you need a long reliever? Can't use him because he's scheduled to piggyback with Guerra two days later? Or Woodruff has a great start and Hader isn't used, so now Hade doesn't pitch for nine days? We don't need 5 aces, but if Guerra can't consistently go more than 3-4 innings, he can't be in the rotation. Wilkerson is still a legit option as well. We had BP starts last year. I know what you are saying but I think it saves innings in one place and then costs innings in the situation you point to. Woodruff goes deep... Hader moves back a day and Suter gets used in another way. Thats why hader cuffs 4. Every 4-6 days he goes. Guerra you pull at 4 regardless. If we get a dud start from one of the top 3. Its going to likely be a loss anyway so williams eat innings or jeffress go 2. Loogey gets a full inning. You get out of it. There were not many times where we had an implosion and handed the ball to a long man for 3-4 IP last year anyway. We pieced it with the pen. Hader and suter can also go one if its a throw day between "starts." But all in all you can't plan for the craziness of a long season. You plan for normalcy and you get through crazy. You can just as easily hit a good stretch when you never have a real use a long man for 2 weeks. He sits there doing nothing while 4 guys in your pen get all the work. He waits for the off chance you need to eat innings. Thats wasteful by plan. Then what if you get rocked early twice in a row. You can't prepare for that so don't. What ifs planning is not optimal. However we run into multiple issues. Guerra suter havent proven they can go deep in games at this time. Woodruff shouldn't jump straight to 200 ip if healthy. Hader as a starter would tax the pen and likely be capled at 150. We got 4 guys who without something different would tax the pen every single turn. Or piggy back them and if more often than not it goes according to plan... alleviate that problem while ramping hader up towards a starters role. While massaging woodruffs workload... while getting something useful from Guerra and seeing if suter can continue to hang his stellar era. Flexibility and testing the waters over rigidness and what if worry. Somethings gotta give with this bunch. If risky what ifs is the biggest hole its better than the alternative. You can't manage this group well and get all the answers without doing something creative.

To the original topic... Anderson davies chacin woodruff Guerra Seems to be the best fit. Gallardo has great numbers in a small sample size as a reliever. The early game numbers look dreadful though. But Guerra, even in last years disaster was a 3.6 era guy thru 4 ip. That's a piggy back guy. You cuff him with Suter and thats interesting. Woodruff hader works as well. You can keep woodruff building towards 200 ip while not forcing the issue this year. Hader can "start" out of the pen and on days where he's grooving he can go 4 ip and close it out. Leaves the pen at Hader Suter Williams Barnes/Jeffress Knebel Needs a loogey and an 8th inning arm. Barnes or Jeffress competing for the 7th. Willians set up to get innings but no need to drop him into leverage. Barnes can find 2016 again or sink. Logan and Addison sure would make this look cohesive. I really doubt that we add addison so the 8th is a big big issue. I really don't expect yo to stick unless barnes proves he can man the 8th. I wish we'd move FPeralta to the pen to start the year and see if he can blaze a path to mke by June. The other issue is we are running 13 arms in that scenerio. Pina Vogt, thames aguilar, villar sogard, arcia, shaw perez, braun broxton santana phillips. That's either a lot of villar perez in the OF and no broxton or perez who could be needed at 3b and 2b vs rhp is gone. 13 in the pen is rough with our braun issue and splits happy team. Probably would be best to add logan and an 8th inning guy and leave Williams down. Go with a short pen and hope the piggy back stuff gets you 8 or 9 clean ip more often than not. And while I love the double piggy back idea... we are in the NL. Likely throwing an extra ab away per game unless you time it beautifully.

Chacin was one of only 23 pitchers in all of MLB last season to throw 180 innings, with an ERA better than league average. I think the odds of any of Guerra, Jungmann, Suter, Wilkerson, Ventura or Derby matching those numbers are extremely low. This is true and absolutely crazy when you think about it. 180 ip and under league average era. 23 guys in the league total fit those 2 criteria. 30 years old. 8 mil per at 16/2. Add 167 starts... and his career average era is .04 higher than the season he's coming off. So history says its no fluke. You say all those criteria blindly you wouldn't assume you signed him at 16/2. I always find that odd in baseball. While others factor in baseball is largely results in a vacuum. Pitcher vs hitter. Yet some guys who repeat upper level results get paid scraps compared to other more talented names who get paid as stars while they put up similar results. Then you look at the fact we sit on Davies Chacin Suter and you just smile. 3 guys, not impressive on pure raw talent clocking in at sub 4.

Addison as well. Not the same reasons but he'd be my add. Wicked arm for jigh leverage situations. Putting him in the 8th with knebel in the 9th closes the door well. I'd leave hader in the pen in a non typical long man. Wouldn't eat junk innings. Could piggy back woodruff 4 or suter 5 and take the ball into the dugout. Try to get him 3-4 ip stints in high leverage situations (games close after 5-6 ip). Anderson davies chacin can get to reed knebel often enough. The 7th would probably be needed (hope barnes steps back up, or jeffress to old form or just patchwork a 7th). Woodruff or suter to hader gives the pen a rest day. If the post season arrives... hader reed knebel is how wins are made.

You find an appropriate definition.

Kinda surprised we weren't in the mix at sub 2.5 mil a year. He was a quality piece in our pen. 3 era guys don't grow on trees, certainly not at that price. Obviously not the high leverage type and I get that jeffress and him are redundant but I believe there is room for 2 guys like that who are 6th inning solid arms. Barnes better bring 2016 barnes this year. Good scraps add for the reds.

He's was a 1 but not an ace. Ace i think sheets 2004... CC Grienke when it comes to our history. That being said Anderson was also a 1. Its also hard to see Davies on the cusp of 200 ip at sub 4 as less than a borderline 2 on a results basis. There are very few 200ip sub 4 pitchers these days. Im hopeful Davies mitigates his slow issues and is an uninspiring 2 this year. With health chacin can be a 3. Anderson pitches like last year and hes a 1. I think thats something many overlook. Last year we had 2 1s and a borderline 2. 3 of 5 giving quality starts over and over and eating innings. If our BP wasn't knebel Hughes and +4 garbage most of the year I think it would have become more obvious. (Wins) Quality... solid quantity... but no we haven't had an ace for awhile. I'd be extatic just to have nelson anderson davies chacin and woodruff or burnes going strong all at once.

Over the hump? As in to the return of Nelson arrival of Burnes Ortiz or as in.over the hump and into the playoffs? If its the latter your probably going to need to empty the farm to kc and mia for multiple multiple pieces. The cubs were bad as was the division. We aren't as close to the hump as you seem to be thinking.

You could be right but I doubt it. I believe he's still around in hopes he can be useful in a deal. He's had a number of chances and he's 28. The Brewers have likely moved on. The fact he didn't get a call up in September after a fine AAA season proves it. And I believe we did some BP games over giving him a shot. I like him I wanted to see them bring him up. He earned it in CS but the more time passes I feel like I must be wrong about him because they don't even want to try it. This years his last shot here. If he even gets one.

Well you can see he was spoken to so I guess thats wrong. As for me being some what have you done for me lately guy...glad you also chimed in to tell me what I must think! Its wasn't just last year where susac has done nothing that a 4A catcher can't do. In the ingame threads people pleaded for him to be pulled every time he got in. Was awful defensively. Was awful at the plate. Was awful framing pitches. He was hurt... so badly that he didn't belong on field apparently, in any way. Trap stiffness shouldn't make you look lost as a player. This guys been passed over at every possible chance. I don't care that he was once a hyped prospect, i guess you do, he simply isn't good. It's not merely last year either. He's a 40 man keep because he can't beat out our other 3 catchers. Think about that. Bandy is a borderline backup to this point. Vogt was sought as an upgrade. Chance after chance... yeah give me the other guy. There will be a fa sitting at home or a triple aaa hold over that stearns could land for a bag of balls who could fill in at C if it came to it who is better than susac. He's kept simply due to the fact that our system doesn't have a catcher less than 3 years away. Again... 28 this year. Passed over multiple times... behind pina vogt (who we brought back) AND BANDY! All he is is clutter on the 40 man. Valuable because he can be stashed? The moment his options are gone so is he. Someone will scoop him and try to demote him for the same reason. We'll use him if injuries force us to. He developed fast early got hyped and since then all hes done is get older. Everyone around him got better he stayed the same. 4A. But some trap tightness that lasted all year and didn't show up on an mri... that's whats holding him back from looking like a competent mlb backup. That's an excuse. I'm sure that's also going to magically go away as well? You can't beat out Bandy, you get Vogt brought in because Bandy isn't good... you aren't good. Unicorn injury or not. Please don't pretend you haven't played besides guys with casted broken limbs and wrecked backs who while limted still were competent on the field. Just sign a guy to a milb offer and free the 40 man spot. You dont lose a thing in the process. You probably get a better player and a 40 man spot. He's simply so bad that it actually makes you wonder if perez could do better. No mlb catcher raises that question.

Have you bothered to look at Susac's history or did you just lock in on his 2017 injury riddled season? 1 catcher (Susac or Bandy most likely) will be traded since they're not carrying 5 heading into the season but thinking Bandy is comfortably sitting on the 40 while Susac is the biggest pile of deuce you've ever seen is absurd. How do we allow this guy to keep talking down to people like this... not to mention he isnt even correct. Just mouthy arrogant condescending and rude... post after post.