BrewerFan

Not sure if I was a believer or just an optimist, but I see an arm like Megill or Vieiera and I just believe in the Brewers ability to get the most out of them. It's certainly not a given(see Erceg, Guerra) but it works often enough that it's hard to not get VERY excited about it when it does happen. IF-IF he's figured it out and can become a HL reliever...or even a guy who comes into the game in the 5th inning with men on 2nd and 3rd and get a K and then a fly ball, that's a massive luxury. Uribe and Megill have this pen looking a WHOLE lot better.

I used to work at an insurance company and they were so...over the top obnoxious, they made a point to NOT put any paper in recycling. This was just out of College, but it was literally...hundreds of pieces of paper a day and they insisted it "all goes to the same place." So I feel you on this one. Just the huge folders....aside from the ones that were supposed to go in the lock box or whatever(a locked box with SS numbers on them where we'd have a company come each day and pick it up to dispose of it). Of course soda cans and bottles, all ended up in there. Some people make a concerted effort to do exactly the opposite of what you ask of them.

I think MOST people thought it'd be Ruiz last off-season. I don't get the same feeling that we need to move a guy this off-season. If we get an offer like we did for Ruiz for...Mitchell, I'd jump all over it, but barring that, 3 OF spots, 1B/DH...I don't think we should. I think they all compliment each other well. Chourio-every day; Frelick-mostly every day; Mitchell 50% until he proves he can hit lefties. Wiemer 80% until he proves he can hit righties better. But Ruiz was a guy we all had #4 and I think most viewed as a #5 OFer. These 4 have much more upside. Oh, and Blake Perkins is a rookie. I could see him helping over the next several years as well. He's a nice player. Tyrone Taylor...eh, I'd probably move on there.

Another arm that can add with Uribe and McGill I guess I should have scrolled up. The answer seems to be yes. Williams/Payamps/Peguero/Uribe/Milner/McGill/Vieira/Wilson This group would make Kevin Cash and his stable of horses blush!

This is probably closer to the final 53. I'm still skeptical Wilson makes it, much as I'd like him to. -Jones back and practicing is big. It's tough with guys who are 6'9 370 pounds. I may have been thinking too much about Becton's injuries and how his injuries have been longer just due to the size(And the Packers secrecy). -Tenuta, I don't think you'll be able to put him on the PS with a "significant injury." I still believe you put Allen on the PS, and Tenuta on the 53, then on IR rather than pay him for half a season or whatever it may be, and risk losing him altogether. I don't think there's any real risk in Allen being claimed(and MLF just said they're comfortable going with "just" 3 TEs). So you could promote him for a couple weeks until another roster spot invariably opens up. I also like Ballentine, again, now that we know it was a minor injury. Newman and then Wilson would be the most likely to be claimed(if they go 2 at RB which again, I think they may). Dre Miller is one guy I'd really keep an eye on. Not for a 53, but he's just got Packer WRer written all over him. 6'3 230 TE/WR hybrid. Big hands, good speed, strong...and despite signing late, he's playing more snaps on STs than any other WRer.

Right, it sounds like Tenuta is out for a while. A couple months. But I'm still skeptical they'll want to lose him. I missed the news from Tuesday that Jones was back, Hanson was out. That's good news and makes it more likely that Telford is waived and placed on the PS. To be clear, I don't think Hanson is a good player, I was more making the point that he was their backup C and a team virtually always carries multiple centers...which is why JRJ, Tom and Newman were getting PT there most likely. I think Heath has to be a roster lock(or as close as an UDFA can be) at this point. Just more evidence that 40 times are grossly overrated. His speed, short area quickness, all of it grades out as poor, but he plays faster. I love watching that guy play.

I definitely wasn't thinking he'd hit 45HRs or have big time power(though, you never know, very few project to hit for average and THAT type of power). It just seemed like their scouting reports were similar. Brown does have lightening quick hands, so...maybe the power becomes a 45/50?

Thanks. I think I've been a little lower on him than I should, but he could still make an outstanding 2B at the MLB level(I understand he's a SS, but he's not a Turang level defender from what I understand and have seen...which again, isn't much). AA is like...midterms. You get an idea of how we'll you're doing before then, but if you ace your midterms or do well, there's a pretty good chance you'll do well on the finals(unless you're held back several years). So I guess hope for the best next year. Still a pretty good walk rate and even if the SLG doesn't get back up to .450 or so, if he's hitting ~.260/.360 and playing good defense up the middle, stealing bags...those players always have value.

Is something clicking for Vieira? He's been dominant the last two months...and the whole year for that matter outside 3 outings in June. Another guy with a 100MPH FB, a splitter, whatever he's throwing now, but from scouting reports, he threw 5 pitches...very few accurately, but the Brewers tend to do well with those types.

What makes you sure he doesn't want to? His defense has dropped off noticably as the season has gone on. He doesn't have a great arm out there. He's a guy with a long history of back issues. He's also played 1B in HS and was a 1B when drafted(albeit an athletic one the Marlins announced as an OFer). But I don't see the justification to keep him in LF when you have Chourio, Frelick, Wiemer, Mitchell and then Carlos Rodriguez on their way up(and Tyler Black could end up in the OF, though I doubt it). Not in my opinion. We need guys who can hit lefties. I also think he'll hit for more power. But if you can get a starting pitcher for him +a prospect, you have to consider it. But I wouldn't be in a hurry to.

My bad. I was thinking a year with Brooks kinda in his prime, but I'd forgotten or just didn't know he was in year 5 by the time he had that 1500 yard season. It's a little interesting that with all the monster seasons we've had by WRers...even dating back to the 80s when we had a HOFer in Lofton, the two best years we've had have been without that dominant #1 and with just really good depth. Jennings had a big year in 2010, but that team went 5 deep. Reminds me of this team a bit. Hopefully we'll have 5-6 guys who are contributing and reliable pass catchers.

Again, I think you're probably right about the OL. 11 is probably unprecedented, but they've been so vague with Tenuta's injury...we don't know if it's a 6 week injury or is "going to miss significant time," a season long injury? Telford, I think people are sleeping on him. He's a large man and has graded out very highly early on. Just a little clarity with Jones/Tenuta's injuries would make it easier. But lets say Jones has a high ankle sprain and Tenuta has a more significant one. Then I think Telford's chances are dramatically stronger. Caleb Jones played all pre-season last year, he looked dominant vs the backups, but he's only played a few snaps this year. And he was cut last year. So his spot feels pretty tenuous. I wouldn't be shocked to see Newman make the roster or get traded or if Hanson makes the roster. I think they're trying to avoid that by giving JRJ and Tom snaps at Center(Newman as well which helps his case). In any event, Walker's emergence really settles that position down. We don't need a TE who's going to come in and be a focus in the passing game, we need a guy, IMO, who can block given Musgrave and Kraft's inability there. There are also still a couple pretty solid FAs. I just mentioned Maxx Williams, he's a very good blocker and he's played quite a bit on STs. He hasn't played in a similar system however. If SF only keeps 3 TEs, I could see Woerner or Willis as possible waiver claims. I do wonder if they'll make any trades. Isiah Simmons for a 7th round pick would have made a LOT of sense IMO. I still think there's a lot of talent there. And yes, Eric Wilson has to make the roster as their #3 MLBer. McDuffie is solid vs the run, but with Campbell in a walking boot at the moment, even if he's expected to be ready week 1, they can't go into the season with Carpenter in position to get snaps on defense. Innis Gaines...I have absolutely no feel for his chances to make the roster. Having played both Safety and Corner, plus STs should help him, but they talked him up two years ago and we haven't seen much of him since.

I'd agree with most of this. As I said, there are 5 or 6 cuts that I don't believe the team will make, but that I'd like to. Hollins making it at edge is one. He's so athletic he should be a core STer, but I didn't realize he played only 8 STs snaps last year, but 37% of the defensive snaps in the 6 games after coming over from the LAR. I'd assume those numbers will flip. I'd like him more as an edge, but he plays lighter than the 250 he's listed at. Wilson at RB may be a stretch, especially with what MLF said about conditioning, I just feel like he's a different back. I know people will vehemently disagree with this, but I think he may be better than AJ Dillon right now. At least AJ Dillon of '22. That's partially on Dillon who I think was a bit too cute last year. Rather than just lowing his shoulder and getting what he could, he tried to bounce it outside or make guys miss. He may have the same 40 as Aaron Jones, but he does NOT have the same first step. Wilson though...every time he's making the right play. MLF just said he might go with 3 TEs(Deguara being among them I assume). I'm pretty skeptical. I'm not sure why a guy like Maxx Williams(81.0 Blocking grade since 2015, best among TEs) is still on the street, but he's the type of player I think we need. Maybe they like Allen, but they should definitely scour the waiver wire. DL- I agree. Brooks excelled at Bowling Green as a pass rusher but played his best when he was playing outside. He's not doing that in GB. Wooden also played edge. But beyond just needing Ford's size...he looks like he's quicker off the ball, more explosive. We'll see if that translates to any type of difference maker, but I agree, even if Ford is just the player he was last year, they need that depth. Van Ness can kick inside, but they don't seem all that interested in having him get work anywhere but OLBer. I could see Gary moving around more this year, but that'd be primarily in pass rushing situations. MLB-I'd be more confident in Carpenter to the PS or cutting him if Campbell was playing, but he really does look lost. Like he just has very little interest in sticking his nose in there vs the run. I think like Leavitt, he makes it almost exclusively as a STer. S-I think they'll keep 5 or 6, but I don't think there are 5 or 6 guys worth being on an NFL roster. Savage, Ford and Johnson are the only 3 I have some level of confidence in. Stokes back at CB when he's healthy...and I'd be very careful with him as he looked like a difference maker as a rookie, that should really push Douglas to safety. And again, call it whatever you want. Charles Woodson was basically a FS his last couple years in GB, but still listed as a CB. I just don't trust Joe Barry to be creative enough. CB-That makes sense. Thomas has looked physical and willing vs the run, but it seems like he's slid down the depth chart. Innis Gaines is another guy I thought looked good a couple camps ago, but like SJC, it hasn't translated. The top 4 though look really good. Jaire, Douglas, Nixon and Valentine... All in all though, this is about what you expect out of a team during a transition. You could have brought Amos back cheap, but that goes against the whole youth movement. Tonyan might have been worth it, but after picking up Musgrave and Kraft, I don't see what he adds other than experience. Musgrave already looks like the player I'd hoped Tonyan would become. I do think a 10 win season is attainable with this schedule, Love looking more than competent, Barry getting the notice that they don't need to wait until Week 13 to play more aggressively, could help. A healthy OL.

What is Brown Jr's...upside or a comp for you? I'm not very high on him, but not for a good reason. He seems like a guy who's similar to Black in that he's patient, makes good contact, has a little bit of a funky swing/stance(Black the big step, Brown the step up). But Brown Jr is clearly more of a sure thing as a MIFer and it seems like he has really quick wrists. I see big bust potential, but if you tell me that bat is a legitimate 55 or 60 as I see it graded, them I'm thinking more of a Marcus Semien. But I'm a bit skeptical and I seem to miss a lot of his games. But the offensive profile and athleticism seems to be...as close a comp as I can think up in a positive light. I just haven't seen the same things in Brown Jr to put him in the top ~8-10 that others have. So curious to hear a unique breakdown from someone who's watched him closer.

This is getting ridiculous. Gradishar, the Broncos LBer back when teams kept track of tackles and Denver would give him a tackle every time he was within 5 yards of the play. I don't know about Powell, but...Sharpe was right up there with Jerry Rice at the pinnacle of Rice's career. It's kinda silly he's not in. Cecil Isabel is another worthy candidate who was under consideration last year, but that was a different era. I'd loved to have seen Sharpe play a year with Robert Brooks(who had a monster AP season the year after Sharpe's last year). Sooner or later he HAS to make it in, right?

Not sure I've ever inferred it was a "travesty." And you realize you're talking about spring training stats/performance while dismissing AAA stats/performance, right?

Well, they are that now. They're the 3rd seed at the moment in the National League. That makes them a WS contender. Obviously if they lose Burnes and or Woodruff, on paper their chances of winning would get quite a bit smaller, but they should still have an outstanding bullpen(likely even deeper than this years with Uribe more established and if McGill can harness his stuff and you add that to Williams, Payamps, Peguero, Milner). The year we went to the NLCS, we have Gio Gonzalez, Chase Anderson, Wade Miley, Brent Suter, Junior Guerra, Peralta. They pieced together a rotation and made it work with a great pen and with a good offense. I don't think it's a stretch to see a similar team next year but with better SP'ing. Miley could be back, Peralta, Ashby, Gasser, Rodriguez and who knows which prospects rise up or who we acquire in those trades. It's certainly an optimistic outlook, but not an unprecedented one. And I expect Chourio, Black, Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Turang, possibly Quero and then a Wilken or Boeve type could force their way in. I'd still put that team at ~84 wins rather than the mid 90s, but I would think there would be enough encouraging talent that a drop in play wouldn't be the reason Counsell would hang it up. I think IF Counsell retires, it'll be because he's burnt out and just wants to spend time with his kids. And I'd still expect him to be employed and around the team. Especially if Pat Murphy takes over as the manager.

I agree with all of this. And if the contract quirk is the reason, then that makes sense. If they're maybe anticipating a higher payroll next year and they do plan on keeping Burnes, Woodruff and Adames, then a DH/1B who makes 1.1M is perfectly logical. And this is a very well run organization...but they're not flawless. My main point of contention in this particular thread is how the arguments are constantly evolving and contradictory and also filled with strawmen.

And go see what the Mets fans and announcers were saying about Buck's stubbornness. Again though...he DID get an opportunity with the Brewers and he wasn't a former 1st round pick they'd invested time and money in.

Ok, let me try it again. If it's not too much trouble, stop changing my argument to benefit your argument. Show me where I've said this? And since you can't, explain why you continue to make this argument? He played EIGHT GAMES with the Brewers in AAA and correct me if I'm wrong, the Brewers did call him up, right? I think you're kinda making the point. The Brewers have given everyone a chance but Hiura who you guarantee will not be an upgrade.

I literally said they're not in the same league. I simply made an observation their slash lines were VERY similar and how easily we found Carter and now we can't find any type of reliable production at 1B without giving up a top 5 prospect+. I didn't say they had the same OPS+ or WRc+...

They're definitely comparable. I know this because I just compared them and they were within 2 points in BA, 4 points in OBP and 32 points in SLG. Now I DID then VERY clearly say overall, they weren't the same caliber of player; My point was simply how we stumbled upon a guy who was a HR champ and a very productive power hitter and now we'd need to give up a top ~30 prospect and a top ~150 pitching prospect to acquire a guy who can hit for power.

You know, you're just continuing to repeat the same claim even AFTER I've directly addressed it. You make your argument and please don't change mine to serve yours. So...who's saying he'd be a surefire or a guaranteed upgrade? Where is anyone guaranteeing anything here? This is REALLY quite simple. The Brewers are getting very little production out of 1B/DH. The Brewers have a player in their minor league system who's playing 1B/DH who was a former top prospect, has exceptional bat speed and who's overhauled his swing in the past year to make better contact. The Brewers have also used I believe it's over 50 different players this year trying to find SOME production... So maybe it's time to give Hiura another chance or opportunity. See how that differs from a "surefire guarantee?" Conversely, why are we acting like there is a surefire guarantee that Tellez is going to bounce back from what's been an awful hitter since May? Or any number of players? And once more with the "blind faith." Your arguments are so fluid, they really just fit whatever point you're making at the time. Luke Voit played 8 games for the Brewers in AAA, did NOT have better numbers than Hiura and he was given an opportunity. I feel like you're making the point for me(and everyone who thinks it can't possibly hurt to give Hiura another opportunity). Right. And this requires them at some point actually providing him the opportunity to do so...which is the entire point here. MAYBE someone is guaranteeing he'll do whatever. I haven't seen it. The argument has simply been...he's done just about everything you could reasonably ask a guy to do in order to earn another opportunity on the 26 man roster. And I was even fine for a while with the MiLB route and bringing him back for another year. But if he can come up and have an impact this year, that shouldn't be a deciding factor.

I understood you weren't suggesting all 3 as...well, that would be insane. But would you really have felt good about 6+ years of Quero and then I presume you meant the RHP Carlos Rodriguez would have minimal value. The 14 years of a really good catching prospect, or a #3 starting pitcher for 2016 Chris Carter level production. Carter- 222.321.499 OPS of .821 41 HRs Alanso- .224.325.531 OPS of .856 39 HRs Now...OBVIOUSLY they're not in the same league, but it's amazing how we just non-tendered the one and then have struggled to replace his production while the other would cost us one of the top 5 prospects in our of our best systems in team history. I hope we end up happy we didn't make this trade, but Alanso would have changed this lineup in a big way.

I don't actually know that's when he hurt his forearm as it feels very much like a "this guy needs a break/generic injury," type of DL visits and then he got his finger stuck in the wall. Now with regard to qualifying Hiura's production last year, we could also point out that he would regularly sit after having a productive day or that despite having reverse splits, he would often sit vs righties and play vs lefties, but I don't feel like I need to do that. It's baseball. The numbers speak for themselves. I did miss the part where anyone said he'd be a "surefire" upgrade as opposed to the numbers and arguments used against him are contradictory EVERY-SINGLE-TIME. Keston Hiura was a productive hitter last year...and he came back with a VERY different swing and approach and it appears to be working. Yet on a team that seems to be challenging the '21 Sox for most players on their active roster during an MLB season, the former top ~20 prospect with an OPS around 1.000 in AAA is still not among them. So again, it's less about the GUARANTEE that he'd be an upgrade and the..."what in the hell do we have to lose/what more can he do," type of logic. And I fully suspect if they called him up tomorrow, you'd be in favor of the move(please, correct me if I'm wrong). I get the faith the front office has earned....but it does seem to be blind faith at this point. Hell, I'll even accept the, "they can keep him for an extra year as a MiLB Free Agent as a justification. NOT that he's simply not good enough. He's proven he is and he can be good enough to give this team a good boost(STILL not a guarantee that he's a "surefire" anything).