BrewerFan

It was so much more than that one play. That SERIES turned when Game3, Jrue starting picking up Chris Paul 94 feet and just wearing him out. He was an absolute beast on the defensive end. Lets not let Jimmy Butler going...out of his mind(including hitting lobs over Giannis AND....someone else at the buzzer for a game winner(or maybe to send it to OT, don't know, don't actually care, it was one series). Jrue's Defense was...massive in that post-season. And in the next post-season and I don't know if Sidney Moncrief or Kawhi Leonhard could have stopped Butler this series.

Penei Sewell was the player who changed the Lions franchise more than any other player...IMO. Bakhtiari is the player who HURT the Packers in '20, '21, '22 and now this year more than any other. Losing him. You CAN get an All Pro in any round. Your chances obviously improve the further up you go. I won't know what the Packers draft grades will be, but if you have hypothetically, Fashanu and Alt graded MUCH higher than whoever is 3rd, then you might have to give up more. Plus, what real needs to they have outside that OL? OT/C. I think Walker moves inside if you do this. And then Safety is a position you obviously could use, but you're much, much more likely to find a safety in the 2nd/3rd who can play than a premier LT. They'll have 10 picks(an extra 2nd, 5th and 2 6ths in comp picks). You've got a ton of cap room coming available in '24 and even more in '25. I'm doing whatever I can after drafting Jordan Love and going through EVERYTHING they've gone through the past 4 years with Rodgers, you have to do whatever you need to in order to give Love the best chance at success. If it's a 1st+2nd and 2nd in '25, I don't care. That position is too important to hope you can develop someone with a much lower grade.

I disagree. There are SO many of them called on returns, you HAVE to factor that in, plus you're 5+ yards deep, so you need a 30 yard return just to break even. You're putting your offense in a hole when they're having enough trouble. Now if they kick it to the GL or a yard or 2 deep, sure. Lets also not confuse Nixon for Hester. They've changed the rules to make it advantageous to not return the ball and he had...maybe 5 really good returns last year that made him an AP? Minnesota a few vs Miami and then vs Philly when we were getting blown out.

If he does end up in Boston, what are they doing to get him? It'd have to be Derrick White and Malcom Brogdon or some package like that. Or Robert Williams and Brogdon? I might actually be fine with that. They lose Grant Williams, if they lose Robert Williams, they've gutted their depth even worse than us and...I think I'd be alright with that. Though Jrue is such a stud on defense, with Brown and Tatum, they'd still be a problem, but much thinner on the perimeter and their interior D takes a big hit. I've seen OKC is interested. They have the 1sts to get it done and they want to compete now+they have another guard is SGA who is an elite offensive player. LOL...lets just hope he goes there and they have a nice, deep playoff run!

Yes, he got some nice returns. I think the closest he came to breaking one was on the PR, but...lets assume you're right. The first few series, we're getting our teeth kicked in and now he's taking it out 5-8 yards deep and there are a couple holding calls and we start a series on our own ~10. I guess you could argue at that point you need a big momentum changer and he's an All Pro KRer and he should be given the benefit of the doubt, but by the time it started to open up, the game was pretty much over.

Edit-I do a stream of consciousness thing when writing and they get away from me. Summary-Mostly agree. OL=bad. Run game=Bad. Barry-very Bad. Walker, Gary=Great Team, about where I expected except the OL which is again hurt and ruining everything. MLF=Not bad, can't overcome that type of dominance at the LOS when Detroit is daring you to beat them with 11 players within 10 yards of the LOS, you have Watson and you don't have time to let him get open. -I agree, this was always going to be an up and down season. Feels like the Packers did everything they could to put a good OL in front of Love, but...things just keep breaking down. Jenkins is a huge loss. It felt like they were worse inside than the OTs were last night, but we'll see when they grade it out. -I think Love is fine when he has to improvise...as a young QB. But when the pocket is collapsing every play...and you can't bail out because you have DEs who are rushing wide, there's just not much to do. He's inconsistent there. The two point vs the Saints last week to Toure and he's made some nice plays getting out of the pocket. Even the left handed push pass was pretty big and gained some yards. -Joe Barry is terrible. Again, he just comes out and plays a preseason, bland, vanilla defense and his entire scheme is our guy can beat yours and that's actually been working...vs poor OLs and with Jaire on the field, Quay and Gary dominating. -I'll push back on the "coming out flat." I don't think they did come out flat in either half. I think they just came out and got their asses whooped. But the first couple series, they were getting off blocks, they were battling. They got a pick on the first play. The defense had breakdowns, but two huge plays given up by Douglas. One in which he tried jumping a route in cover 3. You just cannot do that. You're responsible for the deep 3rd. The other in man, he had Laporta in a blanket and Goff made a perfect throw. But it wasn't an effort issue. Guys were flying around. Wyatt was making tackles 10 yards downfield, Walker was...everywhere last night. He's been outstanding at flying around, filling the gap and been a sure tackler, great in the open field. STs-I'm still not dinging Walker too much. 30-17, I don't think we're coming back. Nixon can't be bringing it out 8 yards deep every time. You're giving the KO team the best of both worlds. They don't have to try and kick it high and short to try and entice you into bringing it out, you just do it regardless. And I'd guess there are penalties on about 20% of returns. It's just not each to block guys who are changing course constantly and there's holding on every punt(I know we're talking about KRs) as the gunners are getting mugged out there. -Reed trying to pick it up on the 2nd bounce...you're taught never to do that, but it bounced right up to him. A "clean" bounce. He just took his eyes off it. I get what he was trying to do. Bottom line, I can't figure out exactly what Love IS, only what he could be after 4 games. And I can see that he's got Pro Bowl or EVEN All Pro potential. Potential is so often unreached though and we're going to get beat up vs good DLs. Defensively, I can see what we are. We're a much better, more physical team that's faster, flies around and hits players and we're also CONSTANTLY out-schemed. All the rules favor the offense. ONE play last night I saw Colby Wooden drop on a zone blitz and McDuffie coming flying in giving us numbers. I saw that ONCE. Otherwise it was Detroit with that big, strong OL and one of the best young players in the game in Sewell just washing away whoever was in front of him and then usually taking out another player at the next level and the defense by the 30th carry just getting wiped away and the group tackling was just bad. I believe in the foundation of what this team has built. I really do. I think the last two drafts have been outstanding. -Love was ALWAYS going to struggle and have his ups and downs. But at least his ups at this point have been...VERY high level. The throw to Reed last night as the 3rd Q expired. I don't care if it did or didn't(I've been told...I think but you @adambr2that it wasn't close)...but he still had to make that throw and Detroit was still covering. The question aside from the OL is can he clean up those quick outs where he it's hitting them quite in time? -The Two INTs. The first was just bad. If it's not tipped, that's a ball that(I believe it was to Doubs as well as the 2nd one) is going to at best get him rocked and will probably be broken up. The 2nd one, I have more understanding for. @CheezWizHedwas right, he did come back to Doubs late, but from his vantage point, he's watching Doubs run his route, pocket is collapsing and if he has another .3 tenths of a second, maybe he reads Doubs going upfield behind the D and hits it, but he threw the ball to where Doubs was supposed to be when he let it go. You won't fix either side of the ball until you make another round of significant investments into the OL and defensively until you just fire Joe Barry. Lets hope that...I guess Jenkins comes back, we continue to improve at OT with Walker, Tom, get through the season with Myers and JRJ and then we need just massive changes next year to that OL first and foremost. Jalen Hurts, Brock Purdy. Both look like very good QBs. They're not more talented than Jordan Love. Justin Fields looks like absolute trash(and so many before him) and it's because they never had a chance due to their OLs. Bakh-I'll bring him back if he restructures, waives the 9.5M roster bonus, drops the 10.7M base to a vet minimum and we add that money back in incentives. See how much he really wants to rehab and play for the Packers(to be fair, I do think he WANTS to and is trying, but you can't pay him the remaining 19M hoping at this point if that's not obvious to everyone). I've already said what I'd do in the off-season. 1-Move up for the OT that you want or you're convinced is a franchise LT. There are maybe 10 who at this point look like they could be that guy, but if it's Alt or whoever. 2-The Dolphins run a similar offense. Spend the money to steal their center...who is 26 and playing at an elite level in a similar system. They'll be 40M over the cap and Tua hasn't been paid yet. 3-Move Walker to Guard. 4-RB/DL/S in the draft But none of this transition to Love matters is he's getting beat up. Rodgers had 18 years worth of playing time to process and get the ball out quick and it still wasn't good enough. Fix it for your young guy. I loved LVN. I'd love Darnell Wright better, but moving forward, that HAS to be their top priority, right?

Nixon took it out early and often and from 7-8 yards deep. To his credit, he usually got it to the ~22 or so, but...there are SO many holding and block in the back penalties just normally, it's a bad call just in general. A yard or two deep...fine. You were an AP. But you can't keep forcing it. Now your 2nd post is actually a decent post. I don't need to see YPC between the tackles to know that Jones is a lot better(I would think we'd agree). But Jones is special and surprisingly strong runner inside. Dillon has just gotten North and South more this year and he's lowered his shoulder to try and gain additional yards and Henry wouldn't be getting more yards in those cases. I will allow that last year Dillon tried to bounce it more and tried to be more elusive. He hasn't really gotten that chance this year. So sure, there's a chance it's just terrible OL play in front of him in Myers, Newman and then really just decent G play at RG. On top of that, Tom is not a RT that moves guys. He stays in front of guys and he seals the edge...he doesn't move guys like...Darnell Wright in Chicago for example. That's why I thought(when Bakh was expected to be healthy) Center was his best position. So maybe thats' part of it.

Did anyone notice that Bakh underwent surgery and then has another surgery planned to finally alleviate the issues he's been having with Cartlidge? THIS surgery(not the one he had, the next one) will allow him to continue playing and he really wants to keep playing in GB. He was practicing and they were planning on him playing for ATL until the day of, but not he's likely out for the year...but he definitely wants to come back? https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023/9/28/23895182/green-bay-packers-news-david-bakhtiari-injury-update-knee-surgery-salary-cap-dead-cap-contract You know what? I'll welcome him back. He needs to sign a 1 year deal with a veteran minimum and we'll add incentives. That's it. Otherwise, he can go to and join his body on the turf at Met Life. I'll say, it's that much more insane that this guy has been so good in the few games he has played given apparently how bad his knee is hurt, but he can prove how much he wants to play for the Packers with his wallet. You got 3 years 72M and you earned that based on previous performance. Now, play '24 based on your previous performance.

It might be, but that dude really does have a preternatural feel for the game and is a really good defender. He's a Draymond type of player. He can't score, but I don't think we need the 4 shooters and Giannis set up. It's a lot to ask, but if we're going to be moving a lot more off-ball, he may end up almost being a de facto PG in the half-court. I think it'd be a bit of a waste to do the same thing, just with Dame though. Ie, Giannis brings it up 40%, Dame 40% and then Middleton 20% and they play ISO and then kick out. Running a real half-court offense while letting them Unleash the Dogs of War in the open court seems like a good idea to me. But, I'm more of a FB/Baseball guy when it comes to the Xs and Os. So I could be way off.

Hell, I might still trade up! If you could get Fashanu, I'd do it(but I'd settle for the next best). If the Packers did this...I actually would storm Gutey's office! I'm convinced he wouldn't be so foolish. https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/nfl/chicago-bears/bears-news/2024-nfl-mock-draft-bears-pick-qb-caleb-williams-with-no-1-pick/509725/ We need a safety. But not that bad. And Savage may be having a nice bounce back. But I'm still willing to give up that early 2nd to move up in this scenario. It's just too important. I'd much sooner try and get by with Rudy Ford and Savage than Tom and Walker or Jones. And again, with Walker, I think you kill two birds...

I think Walker has been very solid. I think he and Tom were decent tonight. I don't think Walker is an elite OT despite his performance vs the Saints and the Falcons(who really have no pass rush threats). Walker's grade at LT is roughly the same as Nijman's the last couple years. That's not good enough. ESPECIALLY on a team that if you're looking at your premium positions QB-Seems like a check WR-Check TE-Check Edge-Check CB-Check...and Check(I think Valentine is a capable starter and Stokes...hopefully he comes back). MLB-Check DL-You definitely want to address the DL before you need to. You could still do that. OL? There are some positions where solid is good enough, OT isn't one of them. Maybe we don't need to trade up, but we still need to address OT and C. And in doing so, I think we'll address OG. Walker can move inside and play Guard, likely at an elite level. You want to trust Walker/Jenkins/?/?/Tom or do you think a former 5 star recruit who's dominating in the SEC(Latham, Mims) or the Pac 12 in Sumataria...OR for ND(Alt) with Walker at RG and then hopefully a Center in the 2nd rd? One of those looks...'good enough' to me, the other looks like an OL that can stack up with Detroit. You build a dominant DL, literally EVERYTHING feeds off that. You're fine getting by with Walker if you can't have Bakh, but you absolutely need to be aggressive and go get a bookend for Tom. Otherwise you need to be much better everywhere else. Take Trent away from SF. Take Mailata away from Philly? We've faced ONE elite edge rusher and we were sliding protection to him depending on what side he was on and we were getting destroyed everywhere else. The only other argument that makes sense to me is if there's a great DL on the board, but I'd still move up for whoever we have graded as an elite OT. I don't know who'll that will be by the end of the year, there's a lot of talent this year, but you need guys who can block ELITE pass rushers, not the trash that Chicago, ATL and NO outside of an aging Cam Jordan have thrown at you. What about Myles Garrett, Nick Bosa, TJ Watt, Parsons? A guy like Alt is a stud in pass pro and vs the run. He absolutely dominated two draft prospects, one who's mocked in the top 10 as of now when they played OSU. THAT is the type of player you need. Tristan Wirfs changed the Buccs offense almost as much as Brady; Bakh's injury is the single biggest reason we failed in 2020, 21 and '22 IMO. Not a place to get by with 'good enough.'

No, I imagine not. And...from what the grades say, there's one and then a BIG drop off. I like the idea of signing a Safety(depending on how Stokes, Valentine play and what happens with Savage) and then most your top draft capital on moving up...maybe twice for a OT and a C. Or, Connor Williams from Miami is a very good FA Center. Immediate plug and play, but he'll...be expensive to pry away from Miami. *Edit-Miami IS about 40M over the cap...so being such a weak draft class after Van Pran, maybe that's the way to go.

The day after Week 18? Should be now. Promote Greg Williams. I mean...it was ONE offer and he considered it and then decided he wanted to stay at Madison. I'd think that'd be a desirable job for him.

Yes...and Tom would probably be an elite Center. And that was what I argued for...when I thought Bakh would play. So I what do you try? Rhyan or JRJ at Center? Rhyan is quicker. I guess you could try Jones at OT and Walker at OG. I think he'd be able to play well there(at least better). Jones with that frame can move guys and he'd at least make edge rushers take the long way to the QB. But short of TB trading Wirfs(I'd give up 2 1sts for that and not blink)...I just don't think many answers are coming. Walker needs to improve at LT Jenkins healthy at LG Myers try and not #$%$ it up at C JRJ-solid at RG Tom-He is really impressive and still needs about 10 more pounds of good weight.

Newman is more consistently below average, but Myers annoys me more because he's solid at times and at other times looks completely hapless.

Yeah, the Broncos game in ~15 or so. A couple Bills games, the Panthers game. The Chargers game a couple years ago. They absolutely did. The OL needs to be fixed and that should be the main priority this off-season, but I'm good with where they are as well. It's only possible they win 9-10 games because it's a very weak schedule, but I'd say they're roughly where Rodgers and GB was in 2008.

I didn't think. I'll wait and see the grades, but I'd guess he grades out average, Tom a bit above and then Newman in the ~-2 to -4 range, Myers even worse and JRJ -2 as well. I thought Walker held up well vs his man and got beat inside a few times, but gave Love a chance for the most part.

No. He had awful technique at Va Tech, he's high waisted, he's not a particularly good run blocker or powerful, he wins with athleticism. Asking him to kick inside feels...like a very bad idea. I'd try Rhyan and hope Jenkins comes back soon. But I'd be shocked if Nijman can play OG. Tom could, but again, you're taking your best OT and OL and moving him inside.

Sure, but Love is getting beat up in the pocket and when he's throwing that ball, Doubs is running a route where he should be there. He's late and the safety was not as far back as I thought, but...it's pretty hard to find a lot of fault with Love. He did throw it to where Doubs was running on the dig. He threw it late and it would have been contested, but people calling it a Favre like throw...not really fair. Doubs turning up field as the ball comes out changes the look of the entire play.

The thing is where are you playing him? The ONLY thing you had going for you was you had OTs who were holding up. Walker and Tom played...pretty well. You'd have to move Walker to Guard(which I think should be done, but not on the fly) and Tom HAS to stay on the outside. He's too athletic and not strong enough. Nijman is CLEARLY one of the top 5, but it's a weird situation. He's not a OG.

I give MLF a pass for tonight since Jones was beat up, but Wilson should pass him as the 2nd ball carrier. The only thing Dillon really does well...is help in pass pro.

Yup. Give me Joe Alt(or Mims from UGA who I think will blow up). Hell, give me UGA's LT, C and their MLBer who replaced Quay in Smael Mondon and looks like a more instinctive version. And then keep adding to the DL. Keep growing from the trenches. We have the weapons on the outside. We have the QB. We have EVERYTHING you need on D but a good DC. I think Valentine is a starting caliber CB. Stokes is coming back. But go back to work on that OL, building one that can dominate like the top 4 teams in the NFC can right now, Philly, Det, SF and...when healthy, Dallas.

No chance.

After watching it again, it was late and Love would have needed Doubs to work back to him there. So 60/40 Love/Doubs, but asking him to hold it so Love can get open up field is asking a WHOLE lot while the pocket is collapsing.

I'll have to go look at it again, but it looked like if Doubs continues his route, it's going to hit him in stride and not go sailing past to the Safety 7 yards deeper.