BrewerFan

I have a very unpopular opinion for this off-season...which is fine. One has already been shot down by many...but it gets us to a place where I think we're more suited to contend. Obviously these are all dependent on the players agree, etc.. 1-Trading Burnes I can't lose the best pitcher we've ever developed for nothing. 1A-CONSIDER trading Devin Williams. I'd be more inclined to package him with Burnes OR Woodruff if it'd net us say...2 top 40 prospects+ 2 in the 80-150 range with the priority being getting a young, power arm in AA, hopefully two. I'm thinking Rangers, Rangers, Mets. I'm thinking Owen White, Rocker, Winn, Mark Church. That's a big return, but White has TOR type stuff, Church a HL reliever. Winn has the big stuff and spin rates and is the type of pitcher the Brewers seem like they could do something with. Rocker is out with TJ, so he'd be back mid-late '24 and ready to go by '25 and hopefully a quick mover most likely. 2-Woodruff I'm offering the Castillo extension. I'm showing him all the players we've got coming up+Burnes return and putting 6/110 on the table. Maybe the shoulder injury convinces him...probably not. If not, I play it out, see what I can get from the Pads when they're 5 out at the deadline or a desperate Mets team that very possibly adds a whole lot of talent and possibly Ohtani. NYM-Ronny Mauricio SS/3B, Blake Tidwell, Dominic Hamel(hugh spin rates) and or Joel Diaz. Feels like we may have to add something. Chaffin option could be picked up if he throws well and could be added to that trade. Philly with Painter...not really worried about waiting for a power arm going through TJ. McGarry could be an option. Abel. All have warts, but you wouldn't trade an ace with 6 years for one with a single year if they were flawless. So we need to rely on the pitching lab. 3-Trying to trade Yelich I know most people were against this(I accidentally voted against it after making the poll). But I think it was probably 65-35 against. But I'm looking at a guy who's going to be 33 years old. He's had back issues. He's always hit ball hard, he's walked a lot. We were reconciled to the fact that we'd have to just deal with a .250 slap hitter who draws a lot of walks. A year ago we'd have loved to get out from under that deal... I get he's back to his MVP form...but for how long? Does his back flare up again? Or he just regresses? Best case when we signed him, his last couple years were gonna be burdensome.] Return would be...a couple of 19 year old's like Yophery Rodriguez types. But the team taking him takes the 22M per and the deferred money. 4-Sign Chourio to a long term deal. Wander Franco got 11/182. Julio Rodriguez got 12/209 10 years 180 and then a couple of POs for 25M a year. Team control from 20-32. Give him a 15M signing bonus 5-Frelick and Wiemer 8 year 50M type extensions, 2 option years 10M....in that range. Turang 6/30 2 TOs for 10M 6-Decline Cahan option, Wilson's obviously, Chaffin-depending on how the season goes, but probably. All this with the aim to position ourselves...similar to how the Os were coming into this year. Low payroll, lot of positional talent and a YOUNG team. Our payroll would be obscenely low. In the ~60M range. Guys like Lauer would be non-tendered or extended for say...4M and 6M TO. Houser a little less. Lineup Frelick-LF Chourio-CF Contreras-C Rowdy-1B Adames-SS-Another possible deadline trade. I'd shift Turang to SS, then Monastario to 2B if he bounces back. Black-3B -I'm gonna give him a shot at 3B first and then we'll see how it works with Tellez who'll be on the block at the deadline. CJ Crown-DH Turang-2B Wiemer-RF The OF is doesn't particularly matter to me. We have 4 CFers. Bench Mitchell-OF Monastario-Utility Owen Miller-Utility Caritini-He's worth keeping around @2/10 until Quero is ready and another valuable trade chip Rotation Peralta Ashby Gasser Houser Lauer Rea Miley-2/14M TO for 2nd year for 8M 1.5 buyout AAA White(Tex), Tidwell(NYM), Carlos Rodriguez, Hammel(NYM) Small, McKendry Let them battle it out BP CL-Uribe-Just get there right now SU-Payamps 7th-Pegeuro Milner Breese Wilson Trevor McGill Church I like lots of bites at the apple, but this is the most minor of "rebuilds." Take the money saved and use it toward the extensions, clear the books for the future, go young, lets these guys get their feet wet. If you know you're not gonna compete ahead of time...which we're not likely to without Burnes/Woody/Williams and Yelich. Hopefully by 2025 we've got a loaded offense, a couple of elite TOR arms like Misiorowski/White/Hamell/Tidwell, whoever we can develop and we have 6 positions in the lineup locked, a top 5 pick and one quick little hiccup before we're back competing. I know, people are going to hate this, but I'd rather go for the whole damn apple in '25, '26, '27, then keep taking nibbles. But that's what I'd do. And again, the CJ Cron, Chaffin, Adames players are the types you move at the deadline. Heading into next year we should have an elite system, even if we graduate Chourio. The 6-7 players we acquire+the 3-4 solid prospects at the deadline, plus guys like Wilkin, Boeve, Pratt, Knoth, Misi, Quero, Bontini, Lara, Guilarte, etc...this is the most likely way to winning a WS in this decade IMO. As for the fans who are going to leave, if you have a ROY type phenom and you give him a 200M deal and then you lock up fan favorites Frelick, Wiemer...Uribe, Misiorowski in the near future, the fans will come back. A new commitment to keeping oru stars here long-term, something we failed to even attempt with Burnes, Woodruff. Again, I know it won't happen, but this is what I'd do. Lots of teams have taken a one year period to...reload, moved off some expiring deals and used their development staff and their strengths to re-load. In our case, it's our ability to take pitchers with good stuff and help them maximize it. Keep the payroll in the ~85M range with a big chunk going to Chourio and the signing bonus to mitigate his future salaries and players we intent on trading to bring in more talent with the expectations that money goes back in the payroll.

Pat Murphy's comments suggest that's not true. His OPS from last year that'd be 3rd on this years team suggests that's definitely not true.

Eh, you just play Anderson at 3B. You've got Adames, Turang, Monasterio, Miller who can cover SS/2B. The later 2 can play 3rd with Anderson. Miller, Santana can play 1st. With the OF, depending on who's pitching, you can put Yelly out there or Taylor so you're not putting too much strain on his elbow. I'm still REALLY confused why they're just not giving HIura ABs when there is literally nothing to lose BUT his rights if he doesn't hit and you'll likely non-tender him next year. So...just stll confused on that one.

So you want two disgraced former executives? Your position on Hart and Luhnow has always been ambiguous, so thank you for clarifying...

No, this is information ONLY you are privy to. And this is the first time ownership has included money in a trade to increase the return for prospects? Man...that is wild! Cohen just out here doing things that nobody knew you were allowed to do! The Rockies definitely didn't do that with Arenado! You DO make a good point though with regard to entirely different sports like CFB or the NFL where the Coaches make massive sums of money. The Denver Broncos and their ownership group which does not have the financial resources the Mets either from being in a sport where a team makes SIGNIFICANTLY more money, nor does that ownership group have...say 60B dollars(they own this little family story Waltmart or something like that). But them paying Sean Payton a record number DEFINITELY means it's a guarantee that the Mets will pay outrageous salaries for their POBO, a GM(who is apparently going to leave to work under Stearns again) and they'll pay 5M for our top Scout. The only question now is where can I lay down that bet? Is that with you or is this with someone else? Or are you just once again being ridiculously over the top and hyperbolic?

Really? Where can I do this? I don't see it on Fan Duel or any other sites, but I'd LOVE to put some money on that! A POBO making...20 MILLION dollars! Did he? Or did he just do what a WHOLE lot of teams have done and pay off part of a players existing salary? You do get he actually SAVED money in this move, right? Me. I say it. And I'm stating it as an absolute fact just as you have with...ALL your other nonsense. To be clear, the Mets are going to spend roughly what it'll take to sign Burnes long term in order to hire a POBO, GM and our director of Amateur scouting? Ya know, the thing you really have to ask yourself is...why would Cohen want Stearns? I mean, they spend 350M, nearly 500M with the luxury tax...and given the fact that Stearns was working with and talking to Stearns(proof being his firm paid a fine for insider trading ~20 years ago)...and now they're awful. Why would they even want Stearns?

I did not see that and that is really incredibly ridiculous to me. We're very reactionary. I'm sure there were a lot of fans writing Burnes off after '19 season.

Hardy is another guy who struggled early...though I'm not sure Turang is a better defender than Hardy. Hardy was an elite defensive SS, GGer and actually reminds me a bit of Willy in how he plays. Great first step and a cannon on him.

This is the type of pitcher I was picturing based on your description. The odds are always against a 20 year old kid turning into an ace, but they're a WHOLE lot higher when that kid has potential ace like stuff! This kid looks nasty!

Ok...so then seems like he's generally on track to come back. See how he feels and hopefully he's starting for the Brewers in 4 days. That'd be a massive boon.

It sounds like you're saying most people, not because you knew there would be people who were "overly attached to a 19 year old with 190 PAs in single A," but rather because you wanted to express your...general pessimism over the quality of the player we got back. And why we were "overly attached?" Because I said I'd miss Guilarte? I mentioned him on more than one occasion as a player in particular I'd NOT want to see traded as those are the exact type of prospects who are 1-underrated due to their age, and 2-Who have very high ceilings due to their particular sets of tools. But sure, there's a small group of people paying attention to these prospect(though I still find the "overly attached" to be a bit backhanded or snide).

I guess I wasn't really thinking he'd be in the upper 90s as a 20 year old, but so many of these guys are throwing 90-92 and...it's SO hard to project when or if that jump in velo is going to come. But if a 20 year old sitting 6'3 175 is already throwing in the mid 90s with filthy movement, that's ALL I need to know. The Brewers seem to get the most out of these guys. And someone with that type of stuff, maybe next year he hits HiA, still just 21(20 most the year) and who knows how quickly he moves. Sometimes it's just trusting that stuff and filling out a bit. If he's touching 96 now, easy enough to see him sitting 95-96 and touching 98 after adding ~15 pounds in a couple years and knocking on the door. That's all I really want to know. Is this guy who**COULD be a TOR type arm in the future or is this a guy who's just getting by on a change up and a mature repertoire. WE get so little info on these guys, you just never know.

The Phillies another. There are a slew of teams that I can think of that could build a package around one high upside pitcher(the Phillies I've thrown out Painter who's under the knife for TJ right now IIRC) Mcfarland and then a couple of lower level power arms who maybe have some issues throwing strikes or what have you. Guys who the Brewers usually develop and can do something with. That's a team that matches up in my mind because they still have two other HIGH ceiling young arms who are #1 and #4 in their system and there's a little more risk with Painter which means we may get more back in return. Same goes for the Rangers with a guy like Lieter and then a whole slew of power arms who are missing a 3rd pitch or they're throwing 4-5 pitches, but don't have that legitimate 3rd pitch. A team that can afford a pitcher and has young arms, they make the most sense. Hell, the Padres. They may be willing to give up Lesko and Snelling. Lesko another guy coming off TJ, just getting back into the groove and Snelling has a vaguely similar profile to Gasser...and we know the Padres are seemingly indifferent to building a farm system. The goal should be to just build up the system next year as much as possible, try and add some power arms, let the pitching lab do what they can with them, and then hopefully start graduating them as Chourio and company are coming through and hope you hit on a starting pitcher or two with some young guys coming up behind them or...now available for trade.

Not many people would miss a 19 year old hitting .310/.410 his first season in full season ball with plus speed, a plus arm, with an advanced glove who's a SS, but can play 3B and 2B due to his quickness, glove and arm? I suppose if the people who wouldn't miss him don't really pay attention to our farm system. Would you also not miss Yophery Rodriguez? He's...what, 26th? Looks like he COULD easily be the next player to have meteoric rise? I guess some people just look at the ranking and some look at the tools, age and how they're performing while factoring those two things into the equation. Guilarte was exactly the type of player I did NOT want to see traded for a mediocre prospect.

I think it's pretty close to a guarantee. Why wouldn't we get a good return for this outside of injury?

Carlos Rodriguez would be another option. I think he's the 2nd most likely option. I like Isaac Collins as well. Not as guy you put on the 40, but...just feel like he could be a better version of Jace Peterson potentially. Though Peterson was an outstanding defensive 3B and he's not playing 3B. I wonder if he gets the bump to AAA now? Let him see some more advanced pitching and get an idea if he can be part of this team in the future. We seem to have a wealth of good utility players, but the dude walks a ton without striking out much.

So he kinda lost it in the 4th? Please tell me that his FB velo was still good and he didn't just completely loose his command. That's all I really need to hear about with regard to Woody.

He's got that big FB? You mentioned Low, so I'm guessing(hoping) he's in that mid to upper 90s range as well.

You're upset about the principle of things surrounding money? That's pretty much all of life. This is a strange comment to me. Now...with regard to the Brewers, I have absolutely no doubt the Brewers could and would have added salary. They tried trading for Eloy Jiminiez, but the White Sox, who wanted Jackson Holliday for Dylane Cease, were almost certainly asking for a massive haul in return. The ~140 in total payroll the Brewers are sitting at right now does not represent some cheap owner just pocketing the money like Robert Nutting. But there are also just realities about what the Brewers can spend. I wish to hell that MLB had more foresight or owners in the large markets willing to sacrifice some earnings for the good of the league as a whole. I suspect MLB would be doing much better if you had the fiscal parity you have in the NFL...but we are where we are and things aren't changing. So unless Menard buys the team and decides he doesn't care about money(which is generally NOT how you become worth ~20B dollars)...this isn't changing.

I don't think this was a salary dump at all. I think they were just looking forward, knew Urias would likely be non-tendered and tried to get something for him. You're saving 1.5M? That's nice, but I don't think that was really the impetus behind it.

I would be all for it...he's released, we don't have to pick up his salary. His Exit Velo, hard hit rate is pretty close to his career numbers. Hits LHPing well. Take a flier on him....if he chooses to come back and play for the Brewers. I get he's been terrible this year, but he was good last year and he provides versatility.

Ah...my bad. I was thinking of Willy. He's at ~8 WAR the past two years with the Brewers. I still think it's a bit odd they wanted MIF help but traded Urias away. I hope they at least thinking really highly of Blaylock rather than just moving off Urias.

I mean, we're past this now, but....you'd need a Dylan Cease like return(just using this deadline). I understand the forum is trying to create content, but it's just SUCH a terrible idea to trade away top young prospcts for a closer, much less probably the best catching prospect you've had since Surhoff(he was an elite prospect, but the rankings were so poor back then, I don't actually know how good he was)? For TWO months of Hader? Eric Brown Jr for Hader? Sure. Hader IS extremely valuable, but there is this myth that this Brewers team is in a situation like the Bucks. That we've got to go all in now and screw the future... That just doesn't make sense. It does for the Bucks to be clear, but the Brewers are building EXACTLY how you'd want them to! I've watched for years jealous of how the Dodgers, Rays, the Cards or whoever, they just KEPT churning out prospects and then, particularly in the case of the Cards, they took these marginal pitchers and they thrived for them. Corbin Burnes is outstanding...as is Woodruff. But Baseball is so much bigger than 2 players(even two catchers). Look at the Braves? THAT is how you build a winner. You bring up those elite young prospects and....when they're willing, you lock them up long term. You don't throw away nearly 14 years of team control for 2 months of it. And by the way, we really should start using 7 years of team control rather than 6. You're getting nearly 7 years. I don't care if David Green or JM Gold didn't hit, that's not a good reason to move your best young prospects(that's a carryover from another thread, not directed at the OP).

Yeah...I like Blalock a bit more, but they're just two fliers. I would have preferred to keep Urias as he's put up 8 WAR the last 2 years I believe, but for two guys in AAA who clearly didn't have futures with the Brewers, it's nice to add some depth. McKendry...there are certainly worse things than soft tossing pitchers with elite changeup's who don't have much upside, but can fill a role in your rotation. With Julio, Rea, Houser all in the rotation, that trade is a HR just because you didn't have to give up much for him. I like both. I'm not jumping for joy, but the way the Brewers churn out pitchers who were overlooked elsewhere...there's reason for optimism.

All of this is true, but I think it's safe to say that Burnes will bring back quite a bit more than what the QO will. I'd have included Adames in here, but I don't believe that's the case with him. I think Burnes nets you 2 top 100 and then at least a couple lower rated prospects.