BrewerFan

No...he's not. What he's going to do is stay here and secretly work for the Mets and his good buddy David Stearns. Just don't be surprised when Chourio is traded for Vogelbach(might even throw in Quero). We've already established Cohen is paying 20M for Stearns and 10M for Arnold and Johnson!

His OPS is under .600 with the Brewers(as is Santana's). How much time are we gonna give these guys!

I don't know...if this is a "get off my lawn," type curmudgeonly take! I don't like it myself...but I guess I'm starting to get old. I loved watching CFB coming up. ND vs FSU and FSU vs Miami, those giant non-conference games that would decide the winner, but still having the 5 conferences and the big Bowl games. I definitely preferred the old way. The chance for Boise State to get in there vs an Oklahoma or Cincy. I wonder if this was inevitable or if it was kinda spurred on by Ed O'bannon and the NIL lawsuits and rulings? Eh, whatever. We got Fickell, Longo and Wisconsin is suddenly a "cool," place to go!

Clearly well deserved. I just thought at this point, they'd let him play it out in Biloxi and then you give him the two months in AAA, see how that goes to start next year. This definitely suggests to me that they're considering putting him on the 40 man sooner than later and possibly part of the 28 in Sept. This team is gonna be so fun to watch when you've got Chourio, Wiemer, Frelick, Turang, Black, Mitchell...Quero is an athletic catcher(Contreras for that matter can move pretty well for a catcher). Yelich is gonna be one of the slow guys! 23 SBs this year in 25 attempts and we're talking about moving the guy to 1B!

Can you give me a comp for Lara? I'm thinking what they'd hoped Robles would be when he was coming up? 2019 Robles was an outstanding CFer. I'm mostly watching Wisconsin and then I stream AA. So I'm not seeing Lara beyond the hype(which is gaining steam).

I think that's all pretty accurate. It really does suck to think about the Humphrey vs Myers pick. It was a head scratcher at the time, but so have other Packers picks(Reed for instance or Rashan Gary for many). But man, that one hurts in retrospect. It's not even like drafting Sternberger a pick or two ahead of McClaurin, it's passing on the consensus #1 Center who was projected as high as a late 1st and taking a guy who was mocked much further down. That said, I'll trust the Packers as they really do draft well(particularly if you ignore the 3rd round). But Myers has looked like a miss for a while now. I'd just trust Stenovich and company, but this is the same group that inexplicably started Turner and Kelly when Nijman had been playing well, that started the year with Newman getting snaps. There have been a couple of situations they've been slow to act. I hope that's not the case here and Myers has a full season and with Jenkins and JRJ being as assignment solid a Guard combo as you can get, he'll start to play better...but I'm skeptical and that's without accounting for the bad snaps. I like Tyler Goodson. He checks almost every box. He has great speed, he makes the right reads(which is an issue Dillon has, though he looked good last night). The only issue is he is taken down by arm tackles that Aaron Jones just runs right through. That's a part of Jones game that's wildly underrated. His power running. He's not Derek Henry, but for a little guy, he runs with a wide base and keeps those legs moving. Now, this part, I've got to remind myself the defense is always ahead of the offense in 11 on 11's and no OL grouping is going to play well when they're rotating in and out, BUT...the IOL didn't look good. Didn't look like they were passing off their men well at all. There was one play where Karl Brooks came off a stunt and you had 3 to block 2 and the LG(not sure who it was) but he picked up Brooks late and Brooks just walked him into Clifford. On Brooks is part, it was a really well executed stunt. He disengaged and showed a great burst, but I THINK it was Newman, he was just on his heels. That said, Brooks looked like he has a real burst and I saw at least one play where Wooden really flashed as well. The DL was constantly re-setting the OL as well. Which again, early in camp, no Bakh, no Jenkins and on the other side, only Gary wasn't playing, so it's to be expected. As a result of things like that, it's hard to really get a read for the QB play. It's not hard to get an read on the type of arm Love has or how smooth and easy Musgrave moves, how dynamic the young WRers look. Without context, it's easy to feel more pessimistic about this offense after this Family Night, but then you just need to go back to Family Night a year ago and Rodgers and this offense weren't really moving the ball, they looked disjointed. So I'm trying to focus less on the fact that it seemed like the QB would have been hit or disrupted on every other throw and more focused on the throws and ball placement...and that looked good. I am loving Musgrave and Reed in particular getting into it with Rasul Douglas and Jaire talking a little #%it to the WRers. It shows the rookies aren't intimidated and it shows the defense is not just counting the minutes during practice. They're really using this time to get better. Jaire is such a game changer. If I had to pick a "player of the night," or something corny like that, I'd have Carlson in there with his leg in front of 73K. That should quell some fears for a while. I'd have Mason on standby in case this team is good all the same, but great night from him. The DL/OLBers looked explosive. I think Slaton has a breakout year. We said this last year, but I think it's coming. Watson, and the backup OTs Jones and Walker looked good, Van Ness looks like a young Rashan Gary(in that he's limited, strong as an ox, uses pretty much just a bull rush and hustles). But Musgraves. What he did to Savage was....savage. He should be beating Savage on contested balls. And I understand Savage isn't Ed Reed, but he can cover from the slot. But when Musgrave put that shake on him at the top of his route and Savage went to the ground? DAMN that was dirty. That's the NFL's version of Trae Young crossing a guy over, putting him on his rear, then looking down at him, giving the little shoulder shimmy and draining the 3. He could be one of those immediate impact players, and if he stays healthy...our first real threat since Finley? Jimmy Graham had a couple of productive years(overpaid, but productive). Tonyan was ultimately a disappointment, but had one big year. Musgrave looks like a totally different animal. He does look particularly soft in the blocking game, so he has a lot of room to go there, but the Packers are talking about how he's one of the FASTEST players on the team? I remember people saying he was disappointed in his 40 and all that, but, it's the Football speed. He's just smooth. He looks like Mike Cameron in CF chasing down a Fly Ball and just gliding. I think a personnel grouping with Watson, Musgraves, Doubs, Jones and then you could put Reed in there, Goodson as a Tyler Ervin type role, Dillon and have him serve as a lead blocker on occasion(as they did last year and was pretty effective). But all of those are going to open Musgraves up down the seem. Rodgers did not like throwing the ball over the middle, but I think that could open up the whole defense. If our starting secondary, assuming Stokes was healthy, matched up vs this receiving core, I think it'd be pretty interesting. Stokes-Watson(I'm just going speed and size and Stokes rookie year). Jaire-Doubs(Doubs is a better route runner with deceptive speed). Douglas- Reed? Musgrave-Nixon or Douglas? Those guys are problems if they're healthy. If a team like KC plays Love the way they did in his first start...well, I don't think they'll stay in that coverage real long!

This is why I stay off Twitter or Game Threads. It's the perfect breeding ground for negativity.

He looked outstanding tonight. He has a massive leg, easy power from 50+. They looked pretty true off his foot. But to your second point, I'm not sure we learn all that much about even Carlson. We likely don't until the season starts. I thought Wyatt looked incredible tonight. Brooks looked good as well. Clark is still miscast as a DE in the 3-4. His first step as a NT is what made him special. He's just eating up blocks at DE or the 3. Let Slaton do that. You're trying to either beat your man or occupy blockers to keep the LBers clean. Clarks worst performances has come at DE. Van Ness looks the part physically. He blew up a couple plays. Musgrave moves sooo smooth and could be a big deal down the seem. ---That's about all I saw and I don't know how much of it is new information. He stated explicitly he wasn't planning on playing in NY with the Jets. And he still looks small. I imagine this will be a 3-4 year transition before he's fully complete, but he was very solid last year, so...15 pounds(and it's obvious it's not just from eating at Culvers every day) should help quite a bit. I think he MAY be the most likely player to become an AP among these young guys(though it'll be that much tougher at LT).

I like Urias and thought he'd hit if given regular ABs...but we also have Monastario and he's not some fluke. He was a good prospect and he's performing now. Maybe the Brewers really like Blalock. It's almost impossible to predict what the Brewers are gonna do with these pitchers. He's got the arm to be a really good pitcher and it'd seem the Brewers targeted him, but all that to say as much as I like Urias, I trust the Brewers evaluations when it comes to the pitchers they like. So I'm mostly in agreement here. I don't like dealing guys like Severino just because of what they CAN become. It's the riskiest type of trade for me. I'd rather trade a Reece Olsen or Justin Jarvis. You know what they are, they clearly have value but there's not a real wide range of outcomes. MAYBE a #3 at best to a long man type. But a young MIFer(or 3B) who's that young and hits for power? I get he's getting passed up by several players(and that was before kinda went nuts with Wilken, Boeve, Pratt, Bitonti). Those are the only two aspects I didn't love. I wanted to see them get Eloy Jiminiez, but when you saw the White Sox demanding Jackson Holliday for Cease, it gave you a good idea that...when they said Robert, Eloy, Cease and...inexplicably Vaughn as a 4th, but that they were all untouchable, seems like they pretty much meant it. Beyond that, Canelario was a seemingly perfect fit with the Brewers. I'd guess a...Guilarte+Henderson type package would have been comparable to the Cubs deal. So I guess I'll give them a B. You can say they should have upgraded the team, but there was a limited number of options and they didn't make any stupid moves like Daniel Norris or Rosenthal. Some of these trades may not work out, but those two were kinda immediate head scratchers(particularly Norris).

You're wondering if Craig Counsell would just quit on this team if they..."fell out of contention," by the end of this month? I'm not sure how bad they'd have to be to fall all the way out of contention, but I would be willing to bet....literally 1 million dollars that Counsell isn't the type of coward to just quit on a team going into Sept. Even if they happen to have a 10 game losing streak and find themselves 8 games out of the WC/Division. That just seems as irrational as the Stearns was sabatoging the Brewers last year in anticipation of him joining the Mets(despite him quite literally making moves that were more beneficial for the future of the team). I think the deadline was pretty good because they didn't give up good prospects and there are so few sellers out there with the additional WC spots. If you disagree, I can respect that. But that nonsense about Counsell just...walking away in-season, you must have an exceptionally low opinion of his character.

Yeah, probably not...but I'm a fan. I think he'll be an excellent match with the young OFers we have. Good plate discipline, good hit tool...but not particularly young and very little power. Also, not really a priority given we've got an abundance of OFers capable of playing CF. I'd say Cam Devanney given his ability to play an elite SS or 3B and despite about as bad of a pro start as you could have had, he's just getting better at AAA. I thought they should have protected him last year, but not sure he was all that close to being drafted give the number of players left unprotected.

I could see Adams getting moved up, but as good as he's been, Boeve is a College bat who hit .400 and has been blistering balls. He had 5 batted balls with EVs over 103 in his first couple games I believe? Could experiment with Boeve at 2B and rotate Wilken at 3B, RF, 1B and DH, with him primarily getting innings at 3B. Boeve at 3B, 1B...DH himself. Kinda strange how they've suddenly got a log-jam at 3B in the lower levels. Baez could be ticketed for Carolina in the near future as well, no?

Wow...I just went back and just looked at prep draft picks from 2000-2010 and while some were 19, the majority were promoted the year following the draft straight to A ball. What's really depressing are all the injuries. Especially if you take it back just 3 more years. Gold, Neugebauer...Shee's not a prep arm, but two yeas from draft to MLB and then a short peak. Also...Mark Rogers pitched for the Brewers(and his numbers were pretty good in a tiny sample size). But ultimately...that decade left us with a LOT of great arms, some I'd forgotten about like Cody Scarpetta, others I remember hoping would become aces, Mark Rogers, Mike Jones among others. None of whom became aces, almost all of whom washed out. So it seems like the current leadership likes to spend more time with them in Arizona teaching them how to pitch before asking them to jump into pro ball. Given their results, it's difficult to argue with any of their philosophies. Seems like that Rivera could end up in Carolina to start next year perhaps? He'll be 18 to start and I've been told by members of this board he could be the next big arm we've got. Just an incredible group of bats in this system now, so hopefully we can develop a Burnes or a Woodruff. This next group could be different.

Yeah, you're going in a very different direction than me. If they did this, I'd be alright with them keeping Burnes and just getting the QO for the two pitchers and maybe Adames if Woody didn't score. This would require a heavy investment in the payroll though. I got about 100M with Yelly, Woodruff, Adames, Eloy, Hoskins, Chaffin and Canelario...but also a really young team and a lot of pre-arb players, so it's possible. I'd take that LAD deal in a heartbeat with any of those starters, but I think you might be getting back more for Williams than Burnes. That's a LOT of talent(I know it's one of those starters). LOL...the Padres are the only option. They need to replace Hader, right? Give us Lesko and Snelling! No Chourio for you? Another year yet?

Nice to see Boeve hitting...but you hope a guy who hit .400 in College would hit well. Pratt and Bitonti are just looking great so far. It's a tiny sample size, but a 17 and 18 year old SS hitting the ground running like that? I'll assume Knoth, Letson and the pitchers will finish this year out in Arizona getting their innings there, start at AZ. How rare would it be to push Knoth to Carolina to start '24?

Yeah...this wasn't really about his trade value though. We're talking about him being an upgrade at DH and Jopal is the one who went the trade value route.

I think what we have here is the belief that Hiura could be an upgrade over the likes of Winker and his sub .600 OPS somehow goes into Jopal's mind and comes out as 'he will be better than roided up Bonds.' Pretty much the same thing, right? The "Might as well, we're really bad at DH and "absolutely lay waste to the opposing MLB pitchers as a one man wrecking crew to in October," are pretty much the same things...right? Oh, and if a player goes through waivers and is not claimed...they will never perform..,.as long as you ignore Justin Turner, David Ortiz, Nelson Cruz, Joey Bautista....etc....

Another great Greinke story... Upon being called up to the Majors(to pitch...much to his chagrin). How can you not love this guy? I also remember the quote about how he likes Milwaukee so far. It was something like, "I like it so far....nobody's been annoying me or anything."

“I like hitting. I’d rather go back and play a position if I was allowed to. But I’m better at pitching. So, people have me pitch.”

Turang DID hit in the minors. Turang was also selected as a Prep Short Stop, not a College OFer. He missed 2020...which was a huge year for his development, then was pushed from A Ball at 19 to AA/AAA at 21 after the Covid year. Turang -games at 21/22 years old in 190 AAA games .279/.365/.404 .769 OPS Adames- 21 and 22 years old in 196 AAA games .280/.359/.417 .777 OPS That's not to suggest anyone expects him to be the offensive player Adames was. They've got very different profiles. Adames projected to be a power hitter...and he has been. Turang projected to hit for average and draw walks. We should also keep in mind when we acquired Adames, he had a OPS+ of 74. Turang this year has an OPS+ of 71. The sky is not falling because a ROOKIE SS is not hitting at 23 years old. But more importantly; This isn't an issue of WANT. I'd want Adames to stick around at SS for the next 4-5 years and Turang at 2B. I suppose Adames is making an extension more plausible this year with a .205 BA and a .675 OPS, but he's a guy who projected to get a Dansby Swanson type contract coming into the year and is set to be a FA in a little over a year. So it has literally nothing to do with wanting Turang over Adames. I think we'd all be thrilled if the Brewers had the money where they could keep Turang at 2B, but that's unlikely. He'll almost certainly be the Starting SS in '25 or the '24 trade deadline.

Tom was just impressive. He looked so small last year, but he has such great feet and moves so well that it provides such a wide range of potential outcomes. I could very easily see him becoming an All-Pro at LT, Center. I don't think he looks like a dominant G as he's not a real mauler, but he looks like a guy you can plug in anywhere. The clearest sign the Packers had confidence in that offensive line was the draft. When have the Packers NOT taken at last a couple OL? It's a deep group and what little we saw from Jones and Walker was impressive. I think both have the potential to be valuable players so long as they manage their bodies well. Another part of that was Gutekunst saying the Offensive linemen they really liked were "off the board by our pick," so that suggests that Skoronski, Wright and obviously Johnson Jr were possible picks. Next years draft class may be one of the best for LT prospects atop the board in a long time. Fashanu from PSU, Alt from ND are two guys who look like top 10 picks, but then J.C Latham was a top 3 overall recruit and could move up quickly. Another guy who I think is a bit under the radar, but the kid who transferred from Oregon to BYU Kinsley Suamatia. 6'6 330, really good athlete. A little Lane Johnson to him...though not as good of an athlete(or he'd be higher). Just another reason why this is SUCH a massive season for Jordan Love and the Packers. If he proves he can be a good NFL starter, the Packers can really double down on the trenches. Add a young LT, hopefully another DL like Maason Smith from LSU and build this team like Philly and SF vs having to go out and use draft capital on a QB. Love has a chance to make Gutekunst look like an absolute genius or a donkey. If Love plays well, it doesn't matter if Rodgers wins the MVP, we got our guy. If Love doesn't, we have to start over again and people are going to constantly compare his numbers to Rodgers.

Is he still taking any snaps at Center? That feels like the Packers weak spot on offense outside of the unknowns. By Myers is physical and a mauler, he's just not very quick. Rhyan was an exceptional athlete, Tom even better. That's such an important position in this scheme...I'd love to see an upgrade there. Hopefully it'll come from more consistent play by Myers along with having Jenkins and JRJ working together, but that's been a problem.

LOL...that's a nice way of saying you think the rest of the idea is silly! 'I like that one very small part of that long, ridiculous and incredibly unlikely off-season plan you had.' 🤣😂 Lets just stick with the Rangers and Brewers. Is the idea of packaging Burnes and Williams crazy to you? I kinda struggle with the idea that a team is gonna trade us a top ~45 pitching prospect for one year of Burnes. This is without all the talent from the draft included, but a guy White who has a big fastball, and the potential for a full 4 pitch repertoire, it seems unlikely. If you tack on a lock down closer? And we are at that point with Williams where we'll have two years left after this year. So if you trade Burnes, I feel like that makes it a much easier sell to get that top prospect and then a couple other arms.

I've always thought of Turang as a Trea Turner type player. Obviously not on the same level, but that type of player with more walks and obviously less power and a worse hit tool, but I think he a .270/.350/.400 player is still well within reason. I think he can hit 10-15 and steal 25-30. I think ~.250/.330 is probably more of an average season and I think he'll be pretty similar to Willy with the glove at SS. I think he'll make some plays Willy doesn't with with his first step, his quickness...and then some plays, particularly in the hole, he just doesn't have that big arm to handle it. I'm not particularly worried about this first season.

I have a very unpopular opinion for this off-season...which is fine. One has already been shot down by many...but it gets us to a place where I think we're more suited to contend. Obviously these are all dependent on the players agree, etc.. 1-Trading Burnes I can't lose the best pitcher we've ever developed for nothing. 1A-CONSIDER trading Devin Williams. I'd be more inclined to package him with Burnes OR Woodruff if it'd net us say...2 top 40 prospects+ 2 in the 80-150 range with the priority being getting a young, power arm in AA, hopefully two. I'm thinking Rangers, Rangers, Mets. I'm thinking Owen White, Rocker, Winn, Mark Church. That's a big return, but White has TOR type stuff, Church a HL reliever. Winn has the big stuff and spin rates and is the type of pitcher the Brewers seem like they could do something with. Rocker is out with TJ, so he'd be back mid-late '24 and ready to go by '25 and hopefully a quick mover most likely. 2-Woodruff I'm offering the Castillo extension. I'm showing him all the players we've got coming up+Burnes return and putting 6/110 on the table. Maybe the shoulder injury convinces him...probably not. If not, I play it out, see what I can get from the Pads when they're 5 out at the deadline or a desperate Mets team that very possibly adds a whole lot of talent and possibly Ohtani. NYM-Ronny Mauricio SS/3B, Blake Tidwell, Dominic Hamel(hugh spin rates) and or Joel Diaz. Feels like we may have to add something. Chaffin option could be picked up if he throws well and could be added to that trade. Philly with Painter...not really worried about waiting for a power arm going through TJ. McGarry could be an option. Abel. All have warts, but you wouldn't trade an ace with 6 years for one with a single year if they were flawless. So we need to rely on the pitching lab. 3-Trying to trade Yelich I know most people were against this(I accidentally voted against it after making the poll). But I think it was probably 65-35 against. But I'm looking at a guy who's going to be 33 years old. He's had back issues. He's always hit ball hard, he's walked a lot. We were reconciled to the fact that we'd have to just deal with a .250 slap hitter who draws a lot of walks. A year ago we'd have loved to get out from under that deal... I get he's back to his MVP form...but for how long? Does his back flare up again? Or he just regresses? Best case when we signed him, his last couple years were gonna be burdensome.] Return would be...a couple of 19 year old's like Yophery Rodriguez types. But the team taking him takes the 22M per and the deferred money. 4-Sign Chourio to a long term deal. Wander Franco got 11/182. Julio Rodriguez got 12/209 10 years 180 and then a couple of POs for 25M a year. Team control from 20-32. Give him a 15M signing bonus 5-Frelick and Wiemer 8 year 50M type extensions, 2 option years 10M....in that range. Turang 6/30 2 TOs for 10M 6-Decline Cahan option, Wilson's obviously, Chaffin-depending on how the season goes, but probably. All this with the aim to position ourselves...similar to how the Os were coming into this year. Low payroll, lot of positional talent and a YOUNG team. Our payroll would be obscenely low. In the ~60M range. Guys like Lauer would be non-tendered or extended for say...4M and 6M TO. Houser a little less. Lineup Frelick-LF Chourio-CF Contreras-C Rowdy-1B Adames-SS-Another possible deadline trade. I'd shift Turang to SS, then Monastario to 2B if he bounces back. Black-3B -I'm gonna give him a shot at 3B first and then we'll see how it works with Tellez who'll be on the block at the deadline. CJ Crown-DH Turang-2B Wiemer-RF The OF is doesn't particularly matter to me. We have 4 CFers. Bench Mitchell-OF Monastario-Utility Owen Miller-Utility Caritini-He's worth keeping around @2/10 until Quero is ready and another valuable trade chip Rotation Peralta Ashby Gasser Houser Lauer Rea Miley-2/14M TO for 2nd year for 8M 1.5 buyout AAA White(Tex), Tidwell(NYM), Carlos Rodriguez, Hammel(NYM) Small, McKendry Let them battle it out BP CL-Uribe-Just get there right now SU-Payamps 7th-Pegeuro Milner Breese Wilson Trevor McGill Church I like lots of bites at the apple, but this is the most minor of "rebuilds." Take the money saved and use it toward the extensions, clear the books for the future, go young, lets these guys get their feet wet. If you know you're not gonna compete ahead of time...which we're not likely to without Burnes/Woody/Williams and Yelich. Hopefully by 2025 we've got a loaded offense, a couple of elite TOR arms like Misiorowski/White/Hamell/Tidwell, whoever we can develop and we have 6 positions in the lineup locked, a top 5 pick and one quick little hiccup before we're back competing. I know, people are going to hate this, but I'd rather go for the whole damn apple in '25, '26, '27, then keep taking nibbles. But that's what I'd do. And again, the CJ Cron, Chaffin, Adames players are the types you move at the deadline. Heading into next year we should have an elite system, even if we graduate Chourio. The 6-7 players we acquire+the 3-4 solid prospects at the deadline, plus guys like Wilkin, Boeve, Pratt, Knoth, Misi, Quero, Bontini, Lara, Guilarte, etc...this is the most likely way to winning a WS in this decade IMO. As for the fans who are going to leave, if you have a ROY type phenom and you give him a 200M deal and then you lock up fan favorites Frelick, Wiemer...Uribe, Misiorowski in the near future, the fans will come back. A new commitment to keeping oru stars here long-term, something we failed to even attempt with Burnes, Woodruff. Again, I know it won't happen, but this is what I'd do. Lots of teams have taken a one year period to...reload, moved off some expiring deals and used their development staff and their strengths to re-load. In our case, it's our ability to take pitchers with good stuff and help them maximize it. Keep the payroll in the ~85M range with a big chunk going to Chourio and the signing bonus to mitigate his future salaries and players we intent on trading to bring in more talent with the expectations that money goes back in the payroll.