BrewerFan

Yeah, probably not...but I'm a fan. I think he'll be an excellent match with the young OFers we have. Good plate discipline, good hit tool...but not particularly young and very little power. Also, not really a priority given we've got an abundance of OFers capable of playing CF. I'd say Cam Devanney given his ability to play an elite SS or 3B and despite about as bad of a pro start as you could have had, he's just getting better at AAA. I thought they should have protected him last year, but not sure he was all that close to being drafted give the number of players left unprotected.

I could see Adams getting moved up, but as good as he's been, Boeve is a College bat who hit .400 and has been blistering balls. He had 5 batted balls with EVs over 103 in his first couple games I believe? Could experiment with Boeve at 2B and rotate Wilken at 3B, RF, 1B and DH, with him primarily getting innings at 3B. Boeve at 3B, 1B...DH himself. Kinda strange how they've suddenly got a log-jam at 3B in the lower levels. Baez could be ticketed for Carolina in the near future as well, no?

Wow...I just went back and just looked at prep draft picks from 2000-2010 and while some were 19, the majority were promoted the year following the draft straight to A ball. What's really depressing are all the injuries. Especially if you take it back just 3 more years. Gold, Neugebauer...Shee's not a prep arm, but two yeas from draft to MLB and then a short peak. Also...Mark Rogers pitched for the Brewers(and his numbers were pretty good in a tiny sample size). But ultimately...that decade left us with a LOT of great arms, some I'd forgotten about like Cody Scarpetta, others I remember hoping would become aces, Mark Rogers, Mike Jones among others. None of whom became aces, almost all of whom washed out. So it seems like the current leadership likes to spend more time with them in Arizona teaching them how to pitch before asking them to jump into pro ball. Given their results, it's difficult to argue with any of their philosophies. Seems like that Rivera could end up in Carolina to start next year perhaps? He'll be 18 to start and I've been told by members of this board he could be the next big arm we've got. Just an incredible group of bats in this system now, so hopefully we can develop a Burnes or a Woodruff. This next group could be different.

Yeah, you're going in a very different direction than me. If they did this, I'd be alright with them keeping Burnes and just getting the QO for the two pitchers and maybe Adames if Woody didn't score. This would require a heavy investment in the payroll though. I got about 100M with Yelly, Woodruff, Adames, Eloy, Hoskins, Chaffin and Canelario...but also a really young team and a lot of pre-arb players, so it's possible. I'd take that LAD deal in a heartbeat with any of those starters, but I think you might be getting back more for Williams than Burnes. That's a LOT of talent(I know it's one of those starters). LOL...the Padres are the only option. They need to replace Hader, right? Give us Lesko and Snelling! No Chourio for you? Another year yet?

Nice to see Boeve hitting...but you hope a guy who hit .400 in College would hit well. Pratt and Bitonti are just looking great so far. It's a tiny sample size, but a 17 and 18 year old SS hitting the ground running like that? I'll assume Knoth, Letson and the pitchers will finish this year out in Arizona getting their innings there, start at AZ. How rare would it be to push Knoth to Carolina to start '24?

Yeah...this wasn't really about his trade value though. We're talking about him being an upgrade at DH and Jopal is the one who went the trade value route.

I think what we have here is the belief that Hiura could be an upgrade over the likes of Winker and his sub .600 OPS somehow goes into Jopal's mind and comes out as 'he will be better than roided up Bonds.' Pretty much the same thing, right? The "Might as well, we're really bad at DH and "absolutely lay waste to the opposing MLB pitchers as a one man wrecking crew to in October," are pretty much the same things...right? Oh, and if a player goes through waivers and is not claimed...they will never perform..,.as long as you ignore Justin Turner, David Ortiz, Nelson Cruz, Joey Bautista....etc....

Another great Greinke story... Upon being called up to the Majors(to pitch...much to his chagrin). How can you not love this guy? I also remember the quote about how he likes Milwaukee so far. It was something like, "I like it so far....nobody's been annoying me or anything."

“I like hitting. I’d rather go back and play a position if I was allowed to. But I’m better at pitching. So, people have me pitch.”

Turang DID hit in the minors. Turang was also selected as a Prep Short Stop, not a College OFer. He missed 2020...which was a huge year for his development, then was pushed from A Ball at 19 to AA/AAA at 21 after the Covid year. Turang -games at 21/22 years old in 190 AAA games .279/.365/.404 .769 OPS Adames- 21 and 22 years old in 196 AAA games .280/.359/.417 .777 OPS That's not to suggest anyone expects him to be the offensive player Adames was. They've got very different profiles. Adames projected to be a power hitter...and he has been. Turang projected to hit for average and draw walks. We should also keep in mind when we acquired Adames, he had a OPS+ of 74. Turang this year has an OPS+ of 71. The sky is not falling because a ROOKIE SS is not hitting at 23 years old. But more importantly; This isn't an issue of WANT. I'd want Adames to stick around at SS for the next 4-5 years and Turang at 2B. I suppose Adames is making an extension more plausible this year with a .205 BA and a .675 OPS, but he's a guy who projected to get a Dansby Swanson type contract coming into the year and is set to be a FA in a little over a year. So it has literally nothing to do with wanting Turang over Adames. I think we'd all be thrilled if the Brewers had the money where they could keep Turang at 2B, but that's unlikely. He'll almost certainly be the Starting SS in '25 or the '24 trade deadline.

Tom was just impressive. He looked so small last year, but he has such great feet and moves so well that it provides such a wide range of potential outcomes. I could very easily see him becoming an All-Pro at LT, Center. I don't think he looks like a dominant G as he's not a real mauler, but he looks like a guy you can plug in anywhere. The clearest sign the Packers had confidence in that offensive line was the draft. When have the Packers NOT taken at last a couple OL? It's a deep group and what little we saw from Jones and Walker was impressive. I think both have the potential to be valuable players so long as they manage their bodies well. Another part of that was Gutekunst saying the Offensive linemen they really liked were "off the board by our pick," so that suggests that Skoronski, Wright and obviously Johnson Jr were possible picks. Next years draft class may be one of the best for LT prospects atop the board in a long time. Fashanu from PSU, Alt from ND are two guys who look like top 10 picks, but then J.C Latham was a top 3 overall recruit and could move up quickly. Another guy who I think is a bit under the radar, but the kid who transferred from Oregon to BYU Kinsley Suamatia. 6'6 330, really good athlete. A little Lane Johnson to him...though not as good of an athlete(or he'd be higher). Just another reason why this is SUCH a massive season for Jordan Love and the Packers. If he proves he can be a good NFL starter, the Packers can really double down on the trenches. Add a young LT, hopefully another DL like Maason Smith from LSU and build this team like Philly and SF vs having to go out and use draft capital on a QB. Love has a chance to make Gutekunst look like an absolute genius or a donkey. If Love plays well, it doesn't matter if Rodgers wins the MVP, we got our guy. If Love doesn't, we have to start over again and people are going to constantly compare his numbers to Rodgers.

Is he still taking any snaps at Center? That feels like the Packers weak spot on offense outside of the unknowns. By Myers is physical and a mauler, he's just not very quick. Rhyan was an exceptional athlete, Tom even better. That's such an important position in this scheme...I'd love to see an upgrade there. Hopefully it'll come from more consistent play by Myers along with having Jenkins and JRJ working together, but that's been a problem.

LOL...that's a nice way of saying you think the rest of the idea is silly! 'I like that one very small part of that long, ridiculous and incredibly unlikely off-season plan you had.' 🤣😂 Lets just stick with the Rangers and Brewers. Is the idea of packaging Burnes and Williams crazy to you? I kinda struggle with the idea that a team is gonna trade us a top ~45 pitching prospect for one year of Burnes. This is without all the talent from the draft included, but a guy White who has a big fastball, and the potential for a full 4 pitch repertoire, it seems unlikely. If you tack on a lock down closer? And we are at that point with Williams where we'll have two years left after this year. So if you trade Burnes, I feel like that makes it a much easier sell to get that top prospect and then a couple other arms.

I've always thought of Turang as a Trea Turner type player. Obviously not on the same level, but that type of player with more walks and obviously less power and a worse hit tool, but I think he a .270/.350/.400 player is still well within reason. I think he can hit 10-15 and steal 25-30. I think ~.250/.330 is probably more of an average season and I think he'll be pretty similar to Willy with the glove at SS. I think he'll make some plays Willy doesn't with with his first step, his quickness...and then some plays, particularly in the hole, he just doesn't have that big arm to handle it. I'm not particularly worried about this first season.

I have a very unpopular opinion for this off-season...which is fine. One has already been shot down by many...but it gets us to a place where I think we're more suited to contend. Obviously these are all dependent on the players agree, etc.. 1-Trading Burnes I can't lose the best pitcher we've ever developed for nothing. 1A-CONSIDER trading Devin Williams. I'd be more inclined to package him with Burnes OR Woodruff if it'd net us say...2 top 40 prospects+ 2 in the 80-150 range with the priority being getting a young, power arm in AA, hopefully two. I'm thinking Rangers, Rangers, Mets. I'm thinking Owen White, Rocker, Winn, Mark Church. That's a big return, but White has TOR type stuff, Church a HL reliever. Winn has the big stuff and spin rates and is the type of pitcher the Brewers seem like they could do something with. Rocker is out with TJ, so he'd be back mid-late '24 and ready to go by '25 and hopefully a quick mover most likely. 2-Woodruff I'm offering the Castillo extension. I'm showing him all the players we've got coming up+Burnes return and putting 6/110 on the table. Maybe the shoulder injury convinces him...probably not. If not, I play it out, see what I can get from the Pads when they're 5 out at the deadline or a desperate Mets team that very possibly adds a whole lot of talent and possibly Ohtani. NYM-Ronny Mauricio SS/3B, Blake Tidwell, Dominic Hamel(hugh spin rates) and or Joel Diaz. Feels like we may have to add something. Chaffin option could be picked up if he throws well and could be added to that trade. Philly with Painter...not really worried about waiting for a power arm going through TJ. McGarry could be an option. Abel. All have warts, but you wouldn't trade an ace with 6 years for one with a single year if they were flawless. So we need to rely on the pitching lab. 3-Trying to trade Yelich I know most people were against this(I accidentally voted against it after making the poll). But I think it was probably 65-35 against. But I'm looking at a guy who's going to be 33 years old. He's had back issues. He's always hit ball hard, he's walked a lot. We were reconciled to the fact that we'd have to just deal with a .250 slap hitter who draws a lot of walks. A year ago we'd have loved to get out from under that deal... I get he's back to his MVP form...but for how long? Does his back flare up again? Or he just regresses? Best case when we signed him, his last couple years were gonna be burdensome.] Return would be...a couple of 19 year old's like Yophery Rodriguez types. But the team taking him takes the 22M per and the deferred money. 4-Sign Chourio to a long term deal. Wander Franco got 11/182. Julio Rodriguez got 12/209 10 years 180 and then a couple of POs for 25M a year. Team control from 20-32. Give him a 15M signing bonus 5-Frelick and Wiemer 8 year 50M type extensions, 2 option years 10M....in that range. Turang 6/30 2 TOs for 10M 6-Decline Cahan option, Wilson's obviously, Chaffin-depending on how the season goes, but probably. All this with the aim to position ourselves...similar to how the Os were coming into this year. Low payroll, lot of positional talent and a YOUNG team. Our payroll would be obscenely low. In the ~60M range. Guys like Lauer would be non-tendered or extended for say...4M and 6M TO. Houser a little less. Lineup Frelick-LF Chourio-CF Contreras-C Rowdy-1B Adames-SS-Another possible deadline trade. I'd shift Turang to SS, then Monastario to 2B if he bounces back. Black-3B -I'm gonna give him a shot at 3B first and then we'll see how it works with Tellez who'll be on the block at the deadline. CJ Crown-DH Turang-2B Wiemer-RF The OF is doesn't particularly matter to me. We have 4 CFers. Bench Mitchell-OF Monastario-Utility Owen Miller-Utility Caritini-He's worth keeping around @2/10 until Quero is ready and another valuable trade chip Rotation Peralta Ashby Gasser Houser Lauer Rea Miley-2/14M TO for 2nd year for 8M 1.5 buyout AAA White(Tex), Tidwell(NYM), Carlos Rodriguez, Hammel(NYM) Small, McKendry Let them battle it out BP CL-Uribe-Just get there right now SU-Payamps 7th-Pegeuro Milner Breese Wilson Trevor McGill Church I like lots of bites at the apple, but this is the most minor of "rebuilds." Take the money saved and use it toward the extensions, clear the books for the future, go young, lets these guys get their feet wet. If you know you're not gonna compete ahead of time...which we're not likely to without Burnes/Woody/Williams and Yelich. Hopefully by 2025 we've got a loaded offense, a couple of elite TOR arms like Misiorowski/White/Hamell/Tidwell, whoever we can develop and we have 6 positions in the lineup locked, a top 5 pick and one quick little hiccup before we're back competing. I know, people are going to hate this, but I'd rather go for the whole damn apple in '25, '26, '27, then keep taking nibbles. But that's what I'd do. And again, the CJ Cron, Chaffin, Adames players are the types you move at the deadline. Heading into next year we should have an elite system, even if we graduate Chourio. The 6-7 players we acquire+the 3-4 solid prospects at the deadline, plus guys like Wilkin, Boeve, Pratt, Knoth, Misi, Quero, Bontini, Lara, Guilarte, etc...this is the most likely way to winning a WS in this decade IMO. As for the fans who are going to leave, if you have a ROY type phenom and you give him a 200M deal and then you lock up fan favorites Frelick, Wiemer...Uribe, Misiorowski in the near future, the fans will come back. A new commitment to keeping oru stars here long-term, something we failed to even attempt with Burnes, Woodruff. Again, I know it won't happen, but this is what I'd do. Lots of teams have taken a one year period to...reload, moved off some expiring deals and used their development staff and their strengths to re-load. In our case, it's our ability to take pitchers with good stuff and help them maximize it. Keep the payroll in the ~85M range with a big chunk going to Chourio and the signing bonus to mitigate his future salaries and players we intent on trading to bring in more talent with the expectations that money goes back in the payroll.

Pat Murphy's comments suggest that's not true. His OPS from last year that'd be 3rd on this years team suggests that's definitely not true.

Eh, you just play Anderson at 3B. You've got Adames, Turang, Monasterio, Miller who can cover SS/2B. The later 2 can play 3rd with Anderson. Miller, Santana can play 1st. With the OF, depending on who's pitching, you can put Yelly out there or Taylor so you're not putting too much strain on his elbow. I'm still REALLY confused why they're just not giving HIura ABs when there is literally nothing to lose BUT his rights if he doesn't hit and you'll likely non-tender him next year. So...just stll confused on that one.

So you want two disgraced former executives? Your position on Hart and Luhnow has always been ambiguous, so thank you for clarifying...

No, this is information ONLY you are privy to. And this is the first time ownership has included money in a trade to increase the return for prospects? Man...that is wild! Cohen just out here doing things that nobody knew you were allowed to do! The Rockies definitely didn't do that with Arenado! You DO make a good point though with regard to entirely different sports like CFB or the NFL where the Coaches make massive sums of money. The Denver Broncos and their ownership group which does not have the financial resources the Mets either from being in a sport where a team makes SIGNIFICANTLY more money, nor does that ownership group have...say 60B dollars(they own this little family story Waltmart or something like that). But them paying Sean Payton a record number DEFINITELY means it's a guarantee that the Mets will pay outrageous salaries for their POBO, a GM(who is apparently going to leave to work under Stearns again) and they'll pay 5M for our top Scout. The only question now is where can I lay down that bet? Is that with you or is this with someone else? Or are you just once again being ridiculously over the top and hyperbolic?

Really? Where can I do this? I don't see it on Fan Duel or any other sites, but I'd LOVE to put some money on that! A POBO making...20 MILLION dollars! Did he? Or did he just do what a WHOLE lot of teams have done and pay off part of a players existing salary? You do get he actually SAVED money in this move, right? Me. I say it. And I'm stating it as an absolute fact just as you have with...ALL your other nonsense. To be clear, the Mets are going to spend roughly what it'll take to sign Burnes long term in order to hire a POBO, GM and our director of Amateur scouting? Ya know, the thing you really have to ask yourself is...why would Cohen want Stearns? I mean, they spend 350M, nearly 500M with the luxury tax...and given the fact that Stearns was working with and talking to Stearns(proof being his firm paid a fine for insider trading ~20 years ago)...and now they're awful. Why would they even want Stearns?

I did not see that and that is really incredibly ridiculous to me. We're very reactionary. I'm sure there were a lot of fans writing Burnes off after '19 season.

Hardy is another guy who struggled early...though I'm not sure Turang is a better defender than Hardy. Hardy was an elite defensive SS, GGer and actually reminds me a bit of Willy in how he plays. Great first step and a cannon on him.

This is the type of pitcher I was picturing based on your description. The odds are always against a 20 year old kid turning into an ace, but they're a WHOLE lot higher when that kid has potential ace like stuff! This kid looks nasty!

Ok...so then seems like he's generally on track to come back. See how he feels and hopefully he's starting for the Brewers in 4 days. That'd be a massive boon.

It sounds like you're saying most people, not because you knew there would be people who were "overly attached to a 19 year old with 190 PAs in single A," but rather because you wanted to express your...general pessimism over the quality of the player we got back. And why we were "overly attached?" Because I said I'd miss Guilarte? I mentioned him on more than one occasion as a player in particular I'd NOT want to see traded as those are the exact type of prospects who are 1-underrated due to their age, and 2-Who have very high ceilings due to their particular sets of tools. But sure, there's a small group of people paying attention to these prospect(though I still find the "overly attached" to be a bit backhanded or snide).