BrewerFan

Agreed. Both on the pitchers(target those types) and on Glasnow. A 3 team trade and taking back Glasnow is too convoluted IMO. Shane Baz is a guy I'd consider. I'm not afraid of pitchers with TJ or returning from TJ. I'd ask for a top 50 prospect or higher to move him, otherwise, just run it back. It's gonna get expensive with all these guys getting into their 3rd year of arbitration(or 4th year).

Newman was much better last week than the previous week or Family Night. We might be too hard on him based on how bad he looked at RT, but he's a solid backup, but it'd be nice to break the string of 3rd rd busts with Rhyan....who's also gotten snaps at Center.

I don't think it's worth rostering 2nd kicker and you'd have to waive him to get him onto the PS. I also don't think he'll be more ready to kick Oct 10th than Sept 10th. I think he just needs to go through it. There's always a few guys we sweat that end up on the PS. I'm guessing the fringe roster guys who are most likely to be cut are being shopped right now. Again, Royce Newman. He got 43 snaps last week. Maybe that's to play some center or perhaps it's more about showcasing him(though he's got two years on tape). If Rodgers were still here, I'd be mostly concerned about losing Heath/Wicks as you know Cobb would be on the team and we'd be a bit handcuffed, but there aren't many guys I'm too worried about. Even Cox. We're DEEP there and Enagbare has looked great. Van Ness doesn't offer much in the way of pass rush, but he's been stout vs the run(again, very similar to a young Gary). Hollins has had two good grades the last two weeks. Wilson is the only guy I don't want to see gone and he's also probably safe as a RB, but I'd still protect him. I just feel like he could slide in so easily next year as our starting RB or our #2 and replace Dillon.

I don't think I'd list QB 2 as a weakness. I think Clifford has come in and played out of his mind. I think you'd be in a better place with a backup than we've been the majority of the time since Favre took over. He's really the perfect backup IMO. Smart, gutsy, he's mobile so he can pick up yards with his legs. If he was a couple years younger and had a bigger arm, then I think the Love vs Clifford debate would have some validity to it, but...I don't see a problem there. And I think the fact that we're likely not a SB team is all the more reason to go with 2 QBs. Why spend the money to bring in a...Carson Wentz? The 3rd QB has to be worth a roster spot and I don't see one that is. Carlson, same idea. I think he just needs to get in games and kick. It's like a fielder throwing the ball. You can tell on the kicks he misses, he's aiming it. I'd say shortarming it in baseball, but the follow through doesn't look natural. When he just lets it go, he's got a massive leg and it's impressive. And it's straight. I haven't got the first clue what to do about safety though. Actually...I do, but Joe Barry has said Douglas to Safety is not going to happen. Anthony Johnson played 40 snaps last game. Hopefully they find something there.

I'm just saying, if he's really figured it out...if we've worked out any kinks in his armor or if he's locating, can you have too many guys with that type of pure stuff? IF that were true, he'd have to be one of the best 14. MAYBE over Houser? Eh, it's unlikely. He'd have to REALLY be pitching better for it to make sense.

I keep forgetting Lauer. He's been a very nice pitcher for us. I suspect he'll be a non-tender candidate, but I still feel pretty good about him. Especially in this type of role. I'd even feel alright about Carlos Rodriguez. It's not Devin Williams, but he's got a nasty change with that FB that I'd think plays up a bit in short outings. And he's been healthy and getting his innings in all year. Ashby might be a bit wishful thinking. I've said from the start, he's too important of a player to bring him back unless he is 100%. Unless he's throwing in the upper 90s with normal soreness and there is no more risk to injury in that shoulder than there is with anyone else. When talking about the future, he's a guy that gets left out when people say we'll have "no pitching," in '25. His stuff is as good as anyone on the team.

I think another lefty would make more sense. Gasser is locked and loaded. Or Ashby who's reportedly close to coming back(back as in able to start rehab outings). Milner needs a counterpart and Chaffin does not appear to be it.

Not sure if I was a believer or just an optimist, but I see an arm like Megill or Vieiera and I just believe in the Brewers ability to get the most out of them. It's certainly not a given(see Erceg, Guerra) but it works often enough that it's hard to not get VERY excited about it when it does happen. IF-IF he's figured it out and can become a HL reliever...or even a guy who comes into the game in the 5th inning with men on 2nd and 3rd and get a K and then a fly ball, that's a massive luxury. Uribe and Megill have this pen looking a WHOLE lot better.

I used to work at an insurance company and they were so...over the top obnoxious, they made a point to NOT put any paper in recycling. This was just out of College, but it was literally...hundreds of pieces of paper a day and they insisted it "all goes to the same place." So I feel you on this one. Just the huge folders....aside from the ones that were supposed to go in the lock box or whatever(a locked box with SS numbers on them where we'd have a company come each day and pick it up to dispose of it). Of course soda cans and bottles, all ended up in there. Some people make a concerted effort to do exactly the opposite of what you ask of them.

I think MOST people thought it'd be Ruiz last off-season. I don't get the same feeling that we need to move a guy this off-season. If we get an offer like we did for Ruiz for...Mitchell, I'd jump all over it, but barring that, 3 OF spots, 1B/DH...I don't think we should. I think they all compliment each other well. Chourio-every day; Frelick-mostly every day; Mitchell 50% until he proves he can hit lefties. Wiemer 80% until he proves he can hit righties better. But Ruiz was a guy we all had #4 and I think most viewed as a #5 OFer. These 4 have much more upside. Oh, and Blake Perkins is a rookie. I could see him helping over the next several years as well. He's a nice player. Tyrone Taylor...eh, I'd probably move on there.

Another arm that can add with Uribe and McGill I guess I should have scrolled up. The answer seems to be yes. Williams/Payamps/Peguero/Uribe/Milner/McGill/Vieira/Wilson This group would make Kevin Cash and his stable of horses blush!

This is probably closer to the final 53. I'm still skeptical Wilson makes it, much as I'd like him to. -Jones back and practicing is big. It's tough with guys who are 6'9 370 pounds. I may have been thinking too much about Becton's injuries and how his injuries have been longer just due to the size(And the Packers secrecy). -Tenuta, I don't think you'll be able to put him on the PS with a "significant injury." I still believe you put Allen on the PS, and Tenuta on the 53, then on IR rather than pay him for half a season or whatever it may be, and risk losing him altogether. I don't think there's any real risk in Allen being claimed(and MLF just said they're comfortable going with "just" 3 TEs). So you could promote him for a couple weeks until another roster spot invariably opens up. I also like Ballentine, again, now that we know it was a minor injury. Newman and then Wilson would be the most likely to be claimed(if they go 2 at RB which again, I think they may). Dre Miller is one guy I'd really keep an eye on. Not for a 53, but he's just got Packer WRer written all over him. 6'3 230 TE/WR hybrid. Big hands, good speed, strong...and despite signing late, he's playing more snaps on STs than any other WRer.

Right, it sounds like Tenuta is out for a while. A couple months. But I'm still skeptical they'll want to lose him. I missed the news from Tuesday that Jones was back, Hanson was out. That's good news and makes it more likely that Telford is waived and placed on the PS. To be clear, I don't think Hanson is a good player, I was more making the point that he was their backup C and a team virtually always carries multiple centers...which is why JRJ, Tom and Newman were getting PT there most likely. I think Heath has to be a roster lock(or as close as an UDFA can be) at this point. Just more evidence that 40 times are grossly overrated. His speed, short area quickness, all of it grades out as poor, but he plays faster. I love watching that guy play.

I definitely wasn't thinking he'd hit 45HRs or have big time power(though, you never know, very few project to hit for average and THAT type of power). It just seemed like their scouting reports were similar. Brown does have lightening quick hands, so...maybe the power becomes a 45/50?

Thanks. I think I've been a little lower on him than I should, but he could still make an outstanding 2B at the MLB level(I understand he's a SS, but he's not a Turang level defender from what I understand and have seen...which again, isn't much). AA is like...midterms. You get an idea of how we'll you're doing before then, but if you ace your midterms or do well, there's a pretty good chance you'll do well on the finals(unless you're held back several years). So I guess hope for the best next year. Still a pretty good walk rate and even if the SLG doesn't get back up to .450 or so, if he's hitting ~.260/.360 and playing good defense up the middle, stealing bags...those players always have value.

Is something clicking for Vieira? He's been dominant the last two months...and the whole year for that matter outside 3 outings in June. Another guy with a 100MPH FB, a splitter, whatever he's throwing now, but from scouting reports, he threw 5 pitches...very few accurately, but the Brewers tend to do well with those types.

What makes you sure he doesn't want to? His defense has dropped off noticably as the season has gone on. He doesn't have a great arm out there. He's a guy with a long history of back issues. He's also played 1B in HS and was a 1B when drafted(albeit an athletic one the Marlins announced as an OFer). But I don't see the justification to keep him in LF when you have Chourio, Frelick, Wiemer, Mitchell and then Carlos Rodriguez on their way up(and Tyler Black could end up in the OF, though I doubt it). Not in my opinion. We need guys who can hit lefties. I also think he'll hit for more power. But if you can get a starting pitcher for him +a prospect, you have to consider it. But I wouldn't be in a hurry to.

My bad. I was thinking a year with Brooks kinda in his prime, but I'd forgotten or just didn't know he was in year 5 by the time he had that 1500 yard season. It's a little interesting that with all the monster seasons we've had by WRers...even dating back to the 80s when we had a HOFer in Lofton, the two best years we've had have been without that dominant #1 and with just really good depth. Jennings had a big year in 2010, but that team went 5 deep. Reminds me of this team a bit. Hopefully we'll have 5-6 guys who are contributing and reliable pass catchers.

Again, I think you're probably right about the OL. 11 is probably unprecedented, but they've been so vague with Tenuta's injury...we don't know if it's a 6 week injury or is "going to miss significant time," a season long injury? Telford, I think people are sleeping on him. He's a large man and has graded out very highly early on. Just a little clarity with Jones/Tenuta's injuries would make it easier. But lets say Jones has a high ankle sprain and Tenuta has a more significant one. Then I think Telford's chances are dramatically stronger. Caleb Jones played all pre-season last year, he looked dominant vs the backups, but he's only played a few snaps this year. And he was cut last year. So his spot feels pretty tenuous. I wouldn't be shocked to see Newman make the roster or get traded or if Hanson makes the roster. I think they're trying to avoid that by giving JRJ and Tom snaps at Center(Newman as well which helps his case). In any event, Walker's emergence really settles that position down. We don't need a TE who's going to come in and be a focus in the passing game, we need a guy, IMO, who can block given Musgrave and Kraft's inability there. There are also still a couple pretty solid FAs. I just mentioned Maxx Williams, he's a very good blocker and he's played quite a bit on STs. He hasn't played in a similar system however. If SF only keeps 3 TEs, I could see Woerner or Willis as possible waiver claims. I do wonder if they'll make any trades. Isiah Simmons for a 7th round pick would have made a LOT of sense IMO. I still think there's a lot of talent there. And yes, Eric Wilson has to make the roster as their #3 MLBer. McDuffie is solid vs the run, but with Campbell in a walking boot at the moment, even if he's expected to be ready week 1, they can't go into the season with Carpenter in position to get snaps on defense. Innis Gaines...I have absolutely no feel for his chances to make the roster. Having played both Safety and Corner, plus STs should help him, but they talked him up two years ago and we haven't seen much of him since.

I'd agree with most of this. As I said, there are 5 or 6 cuts that I don't believe the team will make, but that I'd like to. Hollins making it at edge is one. He's so athletic he should be a core STer, but I didn't realize he played only 8 STs snaps last year, but 37% of the defensive snaps in the 6 games after coming over from the LAR. I'd assume those numbers will flip. I'd like him more as an edge, but he plays lighter than the 250 he's listed at. Wilson at RB may be a stretch, especially with what MLF said about conditioning, I just feel like he's a different back. I know people will vehemently disagree with this, but I think he may be better than AJ Dillon right now. At least AJ Dillon of '22. That's partially on Dillon who I think was a bit too cute last year. Rather than just lowing his shoulder and getting what he could, he tried to bounce it outside or make guys miss. He may have the same 40 as Aaron Jones, but he does NOT have the same first step. Wilson though...every time he's making the right play. MLF just said he might go with 3 TEs(Deguara being among them I assume). I'm pretty skeptical. I'm not sure why a guy like Maxx Williams(81.0 Blocking grade since 2015, best among TEs) is still on the street, but he's the type of player I think we need. Maybe they like Allen, but they should definitely scour the waiver wire. DL- I agree. Brooks excelled at Bowling Green as a pass rusher but played his best when he was playing outside. He's not doing that in GB. Wooden also played edge. But beyond just needing Ford's size...he looks like he's quicker off the ball, more explosive. We'll see if that translates to any type of difference maker, but I agree, even if Ford is just the player he was last year, they need that depth. Van Ness can kick inside, but they don't seem all that interested in having him get work anywhere but OLBer. I could see Gary moving around more this year, but that'd be primarily in pass rushing situations. MLB-I'd be more confident in Carpenter to the PS or cutting him if Campbell was playing, but he really does look lost. Like he just has very little interest in sticking his nose in there vs the run. I think like Leavitt, he makes it almost exclusively as a STer. S-I think they'll keep 5 or 6, but I don't think there are 5 or 6 guys worth being on an NFL roster. Savage, Ford and Johnson are the only 3 I have some level of confidence in. Stokes back at CB when he's healthy...and I'd be very careful with him as he looked like a difference maker as a rookie, that should really push Douglas to safety. And again, call it whatever you want. Charles Woodson was basically a FS his last couple years in GB, but still listed as a CB. I just don't trust Joe Barry to be creative enough. CB-That makes sense. Thomas has looked physical and willing vs the run, but it seems like he's slid down the depth chart. Innis Gaines is another guy I thought looked good a couple camps ago, but like SJC, it hasn't translated. The top 4 though look really good. Jaire, Douglas, Nixon and Valentine... All in all though, this is about what you expect out of a team during a transition. You could have brought Amos back cheap, but that goes against the whole youth movement. Tonyan might have been worth it, but after picking up Musgrave and Kraft, I don't see what he adds other than experience. Musgrave already looks like the player I'd hoped Tonyan would become. I do think a 10 win season is attainable with this schedule, Love looking more than competent, Barry getting the notice that they don't need to wait until Week 13 to play more aggressively, could help. A healthy OL.

What is Brown Jr's...upside or a comp for you? I'm not very high on him, but not for a good reason. He seems like a guy who's similar to Black in that he's patient, makes good contact, has a little bit of a funky swing/stance(Black the big step, Brown the step up). But Brown Jr is clearly more of a sure thing as a MIFer and it seems like he has really quick wrists. I see big bust potential, but if you tell me that bat is a legitimate 55 or 60 as I see it graded, them I'm thinking more of a Marcus Semien. But I'm a bit skeptical and I seem to miss a lot of his games. But the offensive profile and athleticism seems to be...as close a comp as I can think up in a positive light. I just haven't seen the same things in Brown Jr to put him in the top ~8-10 that others have. So curious to hear a unique breakdown from someone who's watched him closer.

This is getting ridiculous. Gradishar, the Broncos LBer back when teams kept track of tackles and Denver would give him a tackle every time he was within 5 yards of the play. I don't know about Powell, but...Sharpe was right up there with Jerry Rice at the pinnacle of Rice's career. It's kinda silly he's not in. Cecil Isabel is another worthy candidate who was under consideration last year, but that was a different era. I'd loved to have seen Sharpe play a year with Robert Brooks(who had a monster AP season the year after Sharpe's last year). Sooner or later he HAS to make it in, right?

Not sure I've ever inferred it was a "travesty." And you realize you're talking about spring training stats/performance while dismissing AAA stats/performance, right?

Well, they are that now. They're the 3rd seed at the moment in the National League. That makes them a WS contender. Obviously if they lose Burnes and or Woodruff, on paper their chances of winning would get quite a bit smaller, but they should still have an outstanding bullpen(likely even deeper than this years with Uribe more established and if McGill can harness his stuff and you add that to Williams, Payamps, Peguero, Milner). The year we went to the NLCS, we have Gio Gonzalez, Chase Anderson, Wade Miley, Brent Suter, Junior Guerra, Peralta. They pieced together a rotation and made it work with a great pen and with a good offense. I don't think it's a stretch to see a similar team next year but with better SP'ing. Miley could be back, Peralta, Ashby, Gasser, Rodriguez and who knows which prospects rise up or who we acquire in those trades. It's certainly an optimistic outlook, but not an unprecedented one. And I expect Chourio, Black, Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Turang, possibly Quero and then a Wilken or Boeve type could force their way in. I'd still put that team at ~84 wins rather than the mid 90s, but I would think there would be enough encouraging talent that a drop in play wouldn't be the reason Counsell would hang it up. I think IF Counsell retires, it'll be because he's burnt out and just wants to spend time with his kids. And I'd still expect him to be employed and around the team. Especially if Pat Murphy takes over as the manager.

I agree with all of this. And if the contract quirk is the reason, then that makes sense. If they're maybe anticipating a higher payroll next year and they do plan on keeping Burnes, Woodruff and Adames, then a DH/1B who makes 1.1M is perfectly logical. And this is a very well run organization...but they're not flawless. My main point of contention in this particular thread is how the arguments are constantly evolving and contradictory and also filled with strawmen.