BrewerFan

I wonder if Dave Bush has the record? I doubt it, but I seem to remember a few games he took a no-hitter late into the game. The 7th, 8th a time or maybe 2. Probably had walks. CC was another one, but I forgot he mixed in those 3 walks in that no-hit-1 hit game.

I care too much not to! The 15 minute lag time is proof of that...remember?

It means this is a ridiculous argument. And I replied 15 minutes after you. Sorry that wasn't timely enough for you and yes, that...must mean I care more than most. About what again? The Brewers won and the topic of the Game Thread is a game he didn't start and the two hitters who DID start in lieu of him, both went 1-2.

No, I'd guess not. Primarily because Chourio has been outstanding in the minors vs both Lefties and Righties. The term "mountain out of a molehill" mean anything to you?

Gawd is this a ridiculous argument. This is ALL over starting Wiemer and Taylor in the OF vs a lefty one game? On a night we won 12-1...this is what we're whining about on the Game Thread? And it's all because Counsell is petty and was questioned? Again, Game Threads...where you go when you NEED to be miserable! LOL...Frelick is a really nice hitter. I'm a huge fan and I have been for a while. The "best hitting prospect since Molitor or Braun though," that's a pretty short memory as well. Prince? Pretty good hitter. Obviously just before Braun. Hiura was also just a better hitter as a rookie. .303/.368/.570 .938 OPS and 19 HRs, 49 RBIs in roughly half a season. Can't we just be happy that Frelick is up, hitting well? Why does this have to turn into a pissing contest over not starting...what, twice since he came up? And the last game both Taylor and Wiemer went 1-2? The kid has been up for ~16 games and twice he came in around the 6th or 7th...and this is a problem? Also, NEVER saw anyone claim Wiemer was an "elite hitter." I DID see someone say he was an elite hitter vs LHPing...and he is.

He's played every game since he's been called up. I'm not really seeing the issue. "That's what happens when you question Counsell?" Who has questioned him and what is what happens?

You combine all that with the fact that he DID change his swing and this is a guy who had a 60 grade hit tool and performed at a very high level already at the MLB level. There was a time when it was so stupid obvious...before the deadline, Winker at a ~560 OPS, Tellez with that OPS in the ~400 or 450 range over a couple month period. There was just no reason to not give him a chance(irrespective of the fact that he was DFAed and not claimed, that's not a permanent excuse to do nothing when you've got an OPS 60 points below the 2nd worst team at the very "position" Hiura would be playing). And this is a team who is CONSTANTLY taking players with his type of history and picking them up on the cheap, trying to see if they can get that version of them back. But when we have one of our own, literally no downside to giving him playing time other than if it doesnt' work, he's not on your AAA team to help out in the playoffs, they leave him down there.

No, you really didn't. I think anyone not being obstinate understood what you were saying...even if they disagreed.

I guess my view is antiquated. I thought you wanted a full year in AA for the elite prospects, but after they moved Black up and then everyone else at AAA last year(Mitchell, Wiemer, Frelick)...that's just not the norm. And nothing is the norm for Chourio. What do we do when he hits .350/.410/.700 at AAA though? Gonna be hard to leave him down until June next year!

That's certainly optimistic Chuorio and Quero should be top 10-15 IMO. An extraordinary draft class could keep Quero out of top 10. Misiorowski still needs a lot of refinement. I thought his promotion was a bit premature and I hope they don't spend 3 years moving him from reliever to starter like Ashby. But he should be top ~20 just based on arm talent and results in A ball. Black will still be there. Frelick will graduate. What's really wild to me are the BB% of our farm system. That's obvious a major point of emphasis. Outside of Baez, pretty much everyone's at 10% and most are quite a bit higher. Chourio is at nearly 8%, but...when you're getting 2 hits a game and have an OPS of 1.260 or whatever he has since the futures game, not sure how much you want him to walk(I mean...10% would still be ideal). As for Adams, I haven't watched much. Again, just haven't seen Carolina play a lot, but every scouting report has him at a 30/35 run with MLB pipeline even saying he looks like he's "stiff." I'm thinking a lot of these scouting reports rely too heavily on the original scouting report and are slow to acknowledge any progress made or just that they missed on a tool set. I think Tyler Black's inability to play 3rd due to his arm strength is at least a little at play there, but he is a top 100, so maybe that's just my obstinance. I'll take Lara, Wilken, Bitonti/Pratt and Adams as top 100 at some point next year. Knoth maybe if he starts in full season ball, otherwise it may take another year. Guilarte has a chance if he can make the jump and Areinamo the same. I guess both the '22 DSL signees if they make the jump to full season ball, but there are so many MIFers that it'll be tough. We may push some guys at SS and 3B given the limited spots available and all the prospects we have popping up there.

I also have gotten the impression that Eppler isn't going anywhere. He's a year removed from a 100+ win team. They just had a bad year. They had fluke injuries and they relied on old pitchers, but...why wouldn't you think Verlander and Scherzer would pitch well this year? I'm definitely worried that Stearns is going to take some guys with him. Not multiple executives, but obsessing over who exactly leaves is pointless. And you don't build a farm system like this with just ONE guy. They're now an infrastructure in place. We can thank Stearns for much of that, Attanasio for investing in it, but I don't believe it's so fragile, it won't survive the New York Mets.

No...he's not. What he's going to do is stay here and secretly work for the Mets and his good buddy David Stearns. Just don't be surprised when Chourio is traded for Vogelbach(might even throw in Quero). We've already established Cohen is paying 20M for Stearns and 10M for Arnold and Johnson!

His OPS is under .600 with the Brewers(as is Santana's). How much time are we gonna give these guys!

I don't know...if this is a "get off my lawn," type curmudgeonly take! I don't like it myself...but I guess I'm starting to get old. I loved watching CFB coming up. ND vs FSU and FSU vs Miami, those giant non-conference games that would decide the winner, but still having the 5 conferences and the big Bowl games. I definitely preferred the old way. The chance for Boise State to get in there vs an Oklahoma or Cincy. I wonder if this was inevitable or if it was kinda spurred on by Ed O'bannon and the NIL lawsuits and rulings? Eh, whatever. We got Fickell, Longo and Wisconsin is suddenly a "cool," place to go!

Clearly well deserved. I just thought at this point, they'd let him play it out in Biloxi and then you give him the two months in AAA, see how that goes to start next year. This definitely suggests to me that they're considering putting him on the 40 man sooner than later and possibly part of the 28 in Sept. This team is gonna be so fun to watch when you've got Chourio, Wiemer, Frelick, Turang, Black, Mitchell...Quero is an athletic catcher(Contreras for that matter can move pretty well for a catcher). Yelich is gonna be one of the slow guys! 23 SBs this year in 25 attempts and we're talking about moving the guy to 1B!

Can you give me a comp for Lara? I'm thinking what they'd hoped Robles would be when he was coming up? 2019 Robles was an outstanding CFer. I'm mostly watching Wisconsin and then I stream AA. So I'm not seeing Lara beyond the hype(which is gaining steam).

I think that's all pretty accurate. It really does suck to think about the Humphrey vs Myers pick. It was a head scratcher at the time, but so have other Packers picks(Reed for instance or Rashan Gary for many). But man, that one hurts in retrospect. It's not even like drafting Sternberger a pick or two ahead of McClaurin, it's passing on the consensus #1 Center who was projected as high as a late 1st and taking a guy who was mocked much further down. That said, I'll trust the Packers as they really do draft well(particularly if you ignore the 3rd round). But Myers has looked like a miss for a while now. I'd just trust Stenovich and company, but this is the same group that inexplicably started Turner and Kelly when Nijman had been playing well, that started the year with Newman getting snaps. There have been a couple of situations they've been slow to act. I hope that's not the case here and Myers has a full season and with Jenkins and JRJ being as assignment solid a Guard combo as you can get, he'll start to play better...but I'm skeptical and that's without accounting for the bad snaps. I like Tyler Goodson. He checks almost every box. He has great speed, he makes the right reads(which is an issue Dillon has, though he looked good last night). The only issue is he is taken down by arm tackles that Aaron Jones just runs right through. That's a part of Jones game that's wildly underrated. His power running. He's not Derek Henry, but for a little guy, he runs with a wide base and keeps those legs moving. Now, this part, I've got to remind myself the defense is always ahead of the offense in 11 on 11's and no OL grouping is going to play well when they're rotating in and out, BUT...the IOL didn't look good. Didn't look like they were passing off their men well at all. There was one play where Karl Brooks came off a stunt and you had 3 to block 2 and the LG(not sure who it was) but he picked up Brooks late and Brooks just walked him into Clifford. On Brooks is part, it was a really well executed stunt. He disengaged and showed a great burst, but I THINK it was Newman, he was just on his heels. That said, Brooks looked like he has a real burst and I saw at least one play where Wooden really flashed as well. The DL was constantly re-setting the OL as well. Which again, early in camp, no Bakh, no Jenkins and on the other side, only Gary wasn't playing, so it's to be expected. As a result of things like that, it's hard to really get a read for the QB play. It's not hard to get an read on the type of arm Love has or how smooth and easy Musgrave moves, how dynamic the young WRers look. Without context, it's easy to feel more pessimistic about this offense after this Family Night, but then you just need to go back to Family Night a year ago and Rodgers and this offense weren't really moving the ball, they looked disjointed. So I'm trying to focus less on the fact that it seemed like the QB would have been hit or disrupted on every other throw and more focused on the throws and ball placement...and that looked good. I am loving Musgrave and Reed in particular getting into it with Rasul Douglas and Jaire talking a little #%it to the WRers. It shows the rookies aren't intimidated and it shows the defense is not just counting the minutes during practice. They're really using this time to get better. Jaire is such a game changer. If I had to pick a "player of the night," or something corny like that, I'd have Carlson in there with his leg in front of 73K. That should quell some fears for a while. I'd have Mason on standby in case this team is good all the same, but great night from him. The DL/OLBers looked explosive. I think Slaton has a breakout year. We said this last year, but I think it's coming. Watson, and the backup OTs Jones and Walker looked good, Van Ness looks like a young Rashan Gary(in that he's limited, strong as an ox, uses pretty much just a bull rush and hustles). But Musgraves. What he did to Savage was....savage. He should be beating Savage on contested balls. And I understand Savage isn't Ed Reed, but he can cover from the slot. But when Musgrave put that shake on him at the top of his route and Savage went to the ground? DAMN that was dirty. That's the NFL's version of Trae Young crossing a guy over, putting him on his rear, then looking down at him, giving the little shoulder shimmy and draining the 3. He could be one of those immediate impact players, and if he stays healthy...our first real threat since Finley? Jimmy Graham had a couple of productive years(overpaid, but productive). Tonyan was ultimately a disappointment, but had one big year. Musgrave looks like a totally different animal. He does look particularly soft in the blocking game, so he has a lot of room to go there, but the Packers are talking about how he's one of the FASTEST players on the team? I remember people saying he was disappointed in his 40 and all that, but, it's the Football speed. He's just smooth. He looks like Mike Cameron in CF chasing down a Fly Ball and just gliding. I think a personnel grouping with Watson, Musgraves, Doubs, Jones and then you could put Reed in there, Goodson as a Tyler Ervin type role, Dillon and have him serve as a lead blocker on occasion(as they did last year and was pretty effective). But all of those are going to open Musgraves up down the seem. Rodgers did not like throwing the ball over the middle, but I think that could open up the whole defense. If our starting secondary, assuming Stokes was healthy, matched up vs this receiving core, I think it'd be pretty interesting. Stokes-Watson(I'm just going speed and size and Stokes rookie year). Jaire-Doubs(Doubs is a better route runner with deceptive speed). Douglas- Reed? Musgrave-Nixon or Douglas? Those guys are problems if they're healthy. If a team like KC plays Love the way they did in his first start...well, I don't think they'll stay in that coverage real long!

This is why I stay off Twitter or Game Threads. It's the perfect breeding ground for negativity.

He looked outstanding tonight. He has a massive leg, easy power from 50+. They looked pretty true off his foot. But to your second point, I'm not sure we learn all that much about even Carlson. We likely don't until the season starts. I thought Wyatt looked incredible tonight. Brooks looked good as well. Clark is still miscast as a DE in the 3-4. His first step as a NT is what made him special. He's just eating up blocks at DE or the 3. Let Slaton do that. You're trying to either beat your man or occupy blockers to keep the LBers clean. Clarks worst performances has come at DE. Van Ness looks the part physically. He blew up a couple plays. Musgrave moves sooo smooth and could be a big deal down the seem. ---That's about all I saw and I don't know how much of it is new information. He stated explicitly he wasn't planning on playing in NY with the Jets. And he still looks small. I imagine this will be a 3-4 year transition before he's fully complete, but he was very solid last year, so...15 pounds(and it's obvious it's not just from eating at Culvers every day) should help quite a bit. I think he MAY be the most likely player to become an AP among these young guys(though it'll be that much tougher at LT).

I like Urias and thought he'd hit if given regular ABs...but we also have Monastario and he's not some fluke. He was a good prospect and he's performing now. Maybe the Brewers really like Blalock. It's almost impossible to predict what the Brewers are gonna do with these pitchers. He's got the arm to be a really good pitcher and it'd seem the Brewers targeted him, but all that to say as much as I like Urias, I trust the Brewers evaluations when it comes to the pitchers they like. So I'm mostly in agreement here. I don't like dealing guys like Severino just because of what they CAN become. It's the riskiest type of trade for me. I'd rather trade a Reece Olsen or Justin Jarvis. You know what they are, they clearly have value but there's not a real wide range of outcomes. MAYBE a #3 at best to a long man type. But a young MIFer(or 3B) who's that young and hits for power? I get he's getting passed up by several players(and that was before kinda went nuts with Wilken, Boeve, Pratt, Bitonti). Those are the only two aspects I didn't love. I wanted to see them get Eloy Jiminiez, but when you saw the White Sox demanding Jackson Holliday for Cease, it gave you a good idea that...when they said Robert, Eloy, Cease and...inexplicably Vaughn as a 4th, but that they were all untouchable, seems like they pretty much meant it. Beyond that, Canelario was a seemingly perfect fit with the Brewers. I'd guess a...Guilarte+Henderson type package would have been comparable to the Cubs deal. So I guess I'll give them a B. You can say they should have upgraded the team, but there was a limited number of options and they didn't make any stupid moves like Daniel Norris or Rosenthal. Some of these trades may not work out, but those two were kinda immediate head scratchers(particularly Norris).

You're wondering if Craig Counsell would just quit on this team if they..."fell out of contention," by the end of this month? I'm not sure how bad they'd have to be to fall all the way out of contention, but I would be willing to bet....literally 1 million dollars that Counsell isn't the type of coward to just quit on a team going into Sept. Even if they happen to have a 10 game losing streak and find themselves 8 games out of the WC/Division. That just seems as irrational as the Stearns was sabatoging the Brewers last year in anticipation of him joining the Mets(despite him quite literally making moves that were more beneficial for the future of the team). I think the deadline was pretty good because they didn't give up good prospects and there are so few sellers out there with the additional WC spots. If you disagree, I can respect that. But that nonsense about Counsell just...walking away in-season, you must have an exceptionally low opinion of his character.

Yeah, probably not...but I'm a fan. I think he'll be an excellent match with the young OFers we have. Good plate discipline, good hit tool...but not particularly young and very little power. Also, not really a priority given we've got an abundance of OFers capable of playing CF. I'd say Cam Devanney given his ability to play an elite SS or 3B and despite about as bad of a pro start as you could have had, he's just getting better at AAA. I thought they should have protected him last year, but not sure he was all that close to being drafted give the number of players left unprotected.

I could see Adams getting moved up, but as good as he's been, Boeve is a College bat who hit .400 and has been blistering balls. He had 5 batted balls with EVs over 103 in his first couple games I believe? Could experiment with Boeve at 2B and rotate Wilken at 3B, RF, 1B and DH, with him primarily getting innings at 3B. Boeve at 3B, 1B...DH himself. Kinda strange how they've suddenly got a log-jam at 3B in the lower levels. Baez could be ticketed for Carolina in the near future as well, no?

Wow...I just went back and just looked at prep draft picks from 2000-2010 and while some were 19, the majority were promoted the year following the draft straight to A ball. What's really depressing are all the injuries. Especially if you take it back just 3 more years. Gold, Neugebauer...Shee's not a prep arm, but two yeas from draft to MLB and then a short peak. Also...Mark Rogers pitched for the Brewers(and his numbers were pretty good in a tiny sample size). But ultimately...that decade left us with a LOT of great arms, some I'd forgotten about like Cody Scarpetta, others I remember hoping would become aces, Mark Rogers, Mike Jones among others. None of whom became aces, almost all of whom washed out. So it seems like the current leadership likes to spend more time with them in Arizona teaching them how to pitch before asking them to jump into pro ball. Given their results, it's difficult to argue with any of their philosophies. Seems like that Rivera could end up in Carolina to start next year perhaps? He'll be 18 to start and I've been told by members of this board he could be the next big arm we've got. Just an incredible group of bats in this system now, so hopefully we can develop a Burnes or a Woodruff. This next group could be different.

Yeah, you're going in a very different direction than me. If they did this, I'd be alright with them keeping Burnes and just getting the QO for the two pitchers and maybe Adames if Woody didn't score. This would require a heavy investment in the payroll though. I got about 100M with Yelly, Woodruff, Adames, Eloy, Hoskins, Chaffin and Canelario...but also a really young team and a lot of pre-arb players, so it's possible. I'd take that LAD deal in a heartbeat with any of those starters, but I think you might be getting back more for Williams than Burnes. That's a LOT of talent(I know it's one of those starters). LOL...the Padres are the only option. They need to replace Hader, right? Give us Lesko and Snelling! No Chourio for you? Another year yet?