BrewerFan

There have been a number of time I've wanted the Brewers to take a pitcher in the draft... most often been wrong than right, but they've waited...and this uncanny ability to find these power arms later in the draft and get them to just add something here or tweak their delivery and they're performing better in AA than they were a year or two ago in College! Hardin is a big one, Wichrowski looks great and they have guys right behind them on their way up as well.

👍 I'd listen to any offer for any player... but it'd have to make sense. I still think Black can be a contributor to next years team...

Yeah, I think you nailed it. Suarez is the guy I'd be looking at, but...I don't want to give up a big piece for him and other teams may be willing to. SPing, nope. An upgrade would cost a lot, and I really like our starters. I like this team a ton. Durbin getting hot was huge, but this is kinda what I'd envisioned when the season started. I thought it'd be Myers and Woodruff vs Patrick and Priester, but those two can still come back. Hypothetically, the D-Backs ask for Hardin+Quintana for Suarez. A reasonable ask. I don't want to give Hardin up as I think the Brewers can turn him into a really good, if not TOR type arm and I don't want to trade away an 18-year-old we thought so highly of. If there's a pitcher who's struggling and they think could do better out of the pen, or whatever else, fine, but I like this team and think it's chances are decent in a short series.

It's a new one because nobody said that. He said he wouldn't trade him because his VALUE is low...due to injury to start the season and then limited time. Similar to how other posters said you'd be selling low on ALMOST everyone on that list.

My point being, it's not a foreign position to him. He's got SOME experience over there. And it's different than Braun. Yelich was moved to the OF because his athleticism was wasted at 1B. Braun's bat was wasted at 3B.

I can't believe this is even an issue. I feel like doing the Allen Iverson. 'We're talking about Spring Training? Spring Training? Not the season, not the regular season when everyone's shaken the rust of, but Spring Training? C'mon man! Spring Training!' Yeah, I agree, he'd handle it. I think he'd be a great SS. I think he'd be the same as Ortiz for the most part. I think he was always going to be the SS until the Brewers found a deal with Baltimore and then it just made more sense to keep Turang, 2 years in and the "Platinum glove winner," at 2B.

It's Turang. He'd be an elite defensive SS. You just slide in one or the other at 2B. I wouldn't add Zamora over Siegler in this scenario, but it's nice to have a SS/2B with his defense and at least the ability to walk and get on base ready to get called up. Not as nice as it'll be to have Cooper Pratt, Made, Pena, etc... ready to come up. But this is more about offense and Siegler is crushing it right now at 3 really important positions while Turang/Ortiz are pretty entrenched (though, Ortiz looked to be losing that grasp until recently).

Right... but Yelich, it was just the back and from everything I understand about the back issue, it's... resolved. But sure, it'd been flaring up since he was in the league. One issue he'd dealt with his whole career. A disc pressing on a nerve causing his back to tighten up, they shaved that disc and apparently that's not a big deal, but... setting all that aside, Yelich brought most of his value from his bat. He was a fine fielder, good base runner, but you could play him at 1st and if he was healthy, get good production there...and the thought being, you have Chourio, Yelich, Frelick...as well as Perkins at a time Weimer, another time Black, but a surplus of OFers. If you move Mitchell there, his bat doesn't really play and he's only slightly less likely to injure himself. I'm not sure given a full, healthy season Mitchell is more than a .750 OPS. He's kinda inflated his OPS the last two years after injury by having a hot stretch, but over a full year? All the K's and holes in his swing? I really hope it's just been bad luck as his bat IS good enough for an elite CFer. No doubt about that. But as a 1B? I don't think it's an upgrade on a half dozen other players we could throw out there next year. Oh, and Martinez is a Cody Bellinger type prospect who has just looked good for years and never really put it together, but has really come on this year in AA. I think you're right, Hoskins won't be back. Black could play 1st...I think. Vaughn won't make enough to non-tender IMO, Wilken got pushed back a couple months. But AAA to start next year, he likely wouldn't have gotten the call until June. Luke Adams though, he's gonna be just about ready. Maybe we'll sign someone. I'm also not giving up on the idea of Yelich to 1B. That was the position he was drafted at, it's the easist position, you'll need Contreras to DH more next year(presumably with Quero catching some or Siegler, Haase, whoever, but he should catch less). That may be pointless, but I still think it's worth a try as he enters his mid 30s.

Or the two guys crushing it in AA already? Adams is almost certainly headed for AAA...then Wilken should step their next year meaning both are on the doorstep. Siegler would be preferable to Mitchell.

I don't know what you get out of that. His value is then... his base running? I'm not sure he can hit still. Strikes out a lot. His injuries have come in all different ways. I think the risk... diabetes causing more injuries or making the healing process longer may have an impact or it's just bad luck. But when he's out there, I'm playing him in CF/RF/. That's his best position and he's a better OF than Chourio.

He'll stay unhittable in AAA, but he needs to add some more strikes in the zone if he's going to get MLB hitters in bad counts. I don't love the 92-93 MPH FB relievers who rely on a Change, MLB hitters can catch up to it, but I don't think they're giving up on Yoho, I think they're trying to work with him. We should also realize how little he's pitched. Though also...this wouldn't break my heart if I'm beind honest. I think we have enough power arms, if you can get a team to actually value Yoho, do it. I just don't think you'll be able to. They saw him, they have the same scouting reports. But in the event that I'm wrong (which I remember happening...2 or 3 times in the last.... decade or so) definitely do it.

They've been desperate for a 3B with a 60 grade arm who can put up a 900 OPS and hit 30 bombs. They drafted him in the 1st Rd. They've had to settle for imperfect players at some positions and sure, they value speed and athleticism, but they're not turning down a guy who is doing what Brock Wilken is doing. He was dominating the Southern League(not exactly hitter friendly). Leading the league in multiple stats...namely the power they've been seeking. And again.... they used a 1st rd pick on him. I think everything about him is what the Brewers have been looking for at 3B. I mean, I mean, if you could build a player in a lab, they'd have Arrenado's defense in his prime and...George Brett's BA, but... he should be a 4-5 WAR player. Luke Adams, basically a mirror of him without the big time arm, I'm quite sure they'll be thrilled to put two big guys who lack the elite athleticism along with our Catcher...whichever that may be, William, Quero, Dinges and our DH(who'll probably be Yelich). That leaves plenty of room for Turang, Made/Pratt/Pena/Ortiz, whoever at the keystone, Chourio, Frelick, Lara or whoever else is in the OF to play elite defense and steal LOTS of bases...

We'll find out the story later, but this sounds weird. If it's not a ruptured patellar tendon and not something structural, it is just a weird freak injury. If it was a ruptured tendon, he should have surgery now and hope to be back for next year. If it's structural, there's a much higher chance of reinjury if you don't have surgery. So...seems odd you wouldn't get it done unless they just don't know... We'll find out when we find out(probably next spring training) but I saw enough that I think he can help us at some point next year... BUT I'm not counting on it(luckily we have Durbin who looks like a good option as a utility player. Ortiz goes down, Durbin to 2B, Turang to SS, Turang goes down, Durbin to 2B. OF, I'm sure he'd be fine out there. Or maybe Wilken just starts as a DH. But, gotta get healthy first.

What do you suppose I even argued in this post? You went into a whole month by month split like I disputed his June Numbers were worse after he gave up 5ER in 2IP like you were making this highly disputed argument! Never said his monthly splits weren't worse...given he made FOUR starts and he gave up 5 ER in 2 of them...so you're kinda conjuring this argument up on your own. I asked a rhetorical question to a.... silly hyperbolic post from you. Nobody has said he is some "mythical phenom anchoring a major league rotation," If I WAS going to argue, I'd point out a rookie pitcher was simply wild. That you'll invariably see this at some point from Misiorowski. I'd also probably point out that he's playing for THE Worst Defense in MLB overall by advanced defensive metrics (DRS, UZR, etc.)... a point you think helps him somehow. I can't fathom how. BUT... as I'm not that invested, I made none of those points. It will be fun to follow the rest of the year. If Jopal bumps the thread, he had a bad outing. If someone else, probably a good outings! It's also certainly fair to say I was wrong and this thread IS really just a 'bad start=Jopal posts,' good start -Turbo posts'...

I have to concentrate to NOT write Cameron Crow...and I still write Cameron.

I mean, there's not a single player I wouldn't trade, but the assumption here is for a Suarez type, MAYBE a Nolan Arrenado(I don't know, pick a better 3B but not an elite one with a big contract on a bad team)... Wilken- No. This is what we've been waiting for. He'll start next year in AA with Adams most likey. The "Twins" are going to be big time impact players at the Corner IF positions. So that 40M we'll have paid Hoskins? That'll cover probably 8 years of both of those players(of course, they may be traded AFTER they're hitting 30 bombs due to the guys behind them). Cameron Crow- Yeah, I guess. If you get an impact player back, fine. I like Hardin who I think will end up being a stud, Wichrowski has plus stuff. Crow is a really refined pitcher, but not Jorge Quintana- No. I'm not interested in trading away top IFA who have just a year in the system. I don't think he'll be Made or Pena, but he's 19. You want to trade away the next Tattis Jr when he's valued as a mediocre propsect? You're giving him away as a throw in and you have no real idea what he'll be. By 22, he could be a top 40 prospect. I'll bet he's a guy who ends up being traded later on after he's played stateside if he's not produced, but the risk isn't worth the reward here. Carlos Rodriguez- Sure. He's a #3/4 in a good case scenario. I like him as a depth guy...but this is also why I don't see much of a return, that's his ceiling. Tyler Black- Sure, but I don't like it. I would rather let him play more in AAA and see a show next year as a utility guy. A lot depends on how much you think of Collins, but he's a guy who walks a lot, steals bases and plays hard. But if he's still valued at a top 10 in this system, I'm alright dealing him for a rental. Blake Burke- Nope. Again, you don't trade away guys who hit the ball with that exit velocity because you happen to have other players at the same position. Boeve, Black, Crow, Rodriguez(AAA or Manuel) Areinamo...there are others you may want to include, but...not young premium talent that we're not sure of. The Brewers may have seen enough of Quinatana and decided he's just WAY too far behind other Shortstops, I can't know that, but as a rule, I'd rather sell lower on those guys than miss one or two who break out. Also, who are we looking at? We don't need much. A guy like Suarez is what we need. I don't think it'll take blue chip guys to get him. The way Durbin is playing, I'd keep him at 3B and as we keep hitting the ball well...and we have so many pitchers, I like this team. Lets take our shot this year without losing a guy like Burke who could be a .300 hitter, 20 HRs and a plus defender. Yeah, the problem though, again, is that's how YOU end up making one of those, "how did you make THAT trade-type trades. We gave him 1.7M, we obviously thought highly of him, he's a really talented young SS and he has little value. If you want to value him as a top 5-6 in our system, fine. But I'm risk adverse with guys with that type of talent in the lower levels.

You really think he's the most promising? Hardin is in AA now, Wichrowski...a couple of guys with big fastballs and at least one more dominant pitch. I think he's got maybe the highest floor, but...I don't know about ceiling. But I would definitely trade Boeve before Wilken. I wouldn't touch Wilken. I'm looking forward to getting a combined .230/.370/.470 line out of Adams and Wilken combined and 60 HRs., I can't even imagine why you'd want to trade Wilken. It's not like he's Mitchell and injury prone, two fluke injuries...that's it. And he's in AA, leading the league in Walks(or behind Adams), SLG, OPS...HRs. We FINALLY get the guy YOU have wanted(this is to Harold) and now it's...ship him out for Suarez! Maybe in 1 year, 2, 3 when Pratt, Bitonti, Pena, Made all make it up, we can make a move, but...there's no reason to do it now.

Ok...thanks. So that's likely a season ending injury, but not something that would be an issue into the start of next year like an ACL (unless he ruptured the patellar tendon, but that's...rare from what I understand, but I don't have an MD in front of my name).

Especially if a guy walks a lot, it's like a hidden double 40 times a year. And perhaps in 2 years when we have Luke Adams at 1B, Wilken playing 3B, Pratt/Ortiz at SS, Contreras at C, Chourio with Made, Pena, Payne on the way...you'll find the ideal balance of both. The guys who are incredibly patient(the clones, Adams and Wilken) and should carry high .300 OBPs, the power hitters, 4 or 5 guys who could slug .500. BTW, haven't heard how Wilken and Adams are going health wise. Wilken's seemed ominous, but not necessarily an ACL. Adams seemed like an injury that could be 3 months or 7 days. Hoping for the later. They're both close the way they're dominating the Southern League(though the BA fans will hate them).

This is just...SO huge for this system. To have a guy in AA who would very possibly(probably) be in a big league BP by now in Childers and then have Bryant and I've watched Manfredi the most and he's not Hader, but it's NOT hard to see him taking on that early Hader type role at some point in the future. Oh, and they have Yoho at AAA among other pitchers and numerous others who are still starting and may move to the pen. Just constantly replenishing the pen and it almost reminds you of the Ron Wolf Packers where they were constantly trying to improve the bottom of the roster. A guy like Bryant or Childres in the future for Ty Alexander or whoever. Megill is a pending FA in 2 years(maybe 3) so possibly a trade candidate and we have Uribe who looks like a future closer and all these arms who look like they could just slot into his spot or the taxi squad. Just more depth and more weapons.

So... are you saying they'll go over-slot for a HS arm? I'm kidding, but that has been one of the things I've wanted them to do in recent years. Cam Camminiti, Brecht, Mayfield, Sloan last year...and I liked Gage Jump...but MUCH less than the prep arms. '23 I liked Waldrep...REALLY liked White(though...that would have cost you Pratt most likely or a couple of the picks in Rd 11-20 at LEAST) and then Soto. But I'm primarily looking at just pure talent and hoping the Brewers can develop them. I'm sure if there was an arm the Brewers loved, they'd take him, but their strategy of finding these pitchers who just need to tweak a couple things to unlock levels has been incredible to watch...and not that it needs to be said, but my drafts would look awful compared to the Brewers. That's also why I kinda chuckle when I see the outrage at a pick like Payne and then he signs for more than 75%. Like...I get it, some of you have your own opinions, you actually watch enough of these guys like I do with Football, but most people are just going to MLB Pipeline's rankings to evaluate the pick and complain. I mean, at SOME point we should just... almost blindly trust this front office, no?

You don't think it juuust might lie somewhere in the middle? He's a very good pitcher, a high end #3 who could be a #2 and he's struggled a bit. He had a 2.86 ERA coming in and had shut down the Astsros and Tigers in his two prior starts before the two you cited. I'm sure he'll have to adjust...and his stuff is plenty good that I have no doubt he will, but I think perhaps you're exaggerating how good anyone has suggested he was. I MIGHT say Paul Skenes is a "mythical phenom anchoring a major Legue rotation," Nobody said that about Smith. But I guess I was wrong, this really is just a 'he had a bad start, I'm right,' thread vs a 'he had a good start, I'm right' thread.

They just made a mistake. I don't believe he wasn't going to figure it out with the Brewers. We have how many pitchers who've developed a Change or cutter into their career? Saying he wouldn't have is kinda like saying Freddy Peralta never would have become the pitcher he is as he MAINLY just threw FBs early on. The Brewers just blew this one and that's alright. Henderson, Patrick, Henderson...it's a bit costly(Yophery, #33 and an interesting reliever) but... I think this is grossly understating how hard it is to find starting pitchers. Perhaps because we've been spoiled, but he's playing for a terrible team with poor defense and he's been a #2/#3. He's nowhere near Santana obviously(just as I don't think Pratt will end up Gunnar Henderson from the right side), HOWEVER... he's a guy you can reasonably count on giving you 5-6 innings right now and I think he'll cement that further as he progresses, but if you had him, you also wouldn't need Priester. We gave up a LOT in that trade. The 33rd pick and the bonus pool money that comes with it was enough. What's more, I'd say having those assets, Mis, Henderson, Smith, Patrick as 4 reliable starters... does it "dramatically" alter the long-term outlook? I don't know, that's kinda vague, but it was a significant misstep. In another 2 years, we may have Tyson Hardin, Letson, KC Hunt...Wichrowski, Meccage, Does the #33rd pick, Yophery Rodriguez and a reliever get us Suraez? It might...Or you could have both. That works also. You need 7 or 8 pitchers. Who'd have thought we'd lose probably the #2 and #3 pitchers in our rotation(projecting Cortes and Woodruff as the 2/3 in some manner, even if Woodruff is "only" touching 94-95) and we'd be sending Logan Henderson down after 4 starts with a 1.77 ERA and 3 wins(not that the stat is important, but 4-0 in games he started). ***Again, I think the MORE important thing is to recognize the embarrassment of riches the Brewers have with regard to young arms (which isn't even as impressive as the young bats). And if this and the Reese Olson trades end up being the two worst moves the Brewers make over...~5 years, I'm feeling pretty good moving forward. As for the last part in bold; -I think you can look at how the Dodgers have done things. They seem to make more prospect for prospect trades than anyone, presumably due to 40-man issues since they sign...like... literally 6-8 Cy Young caliber pitchers and many get hurt.

Man, how a few weeks can change things! The FOUR best rookie starters(arguably) with Mis. What it tells me is that...despite making a mistake, the Brewers are one of, if not the best teams at finding Starting Pitching that's not a gimme like Skenes and turning them into qualify MLB starters. Why are we always so eager to close threads? This is about Shane Smith. I don't see anything wrong with tracking how the season plays out. It's not like there are 50 new topics that are just red hot and this is burying others.

If he's playing with an injury or not, it's OBVIOUS he's still a VERY good season. Exit Velo, his hard hit rate. xBA of .276, xSLG of .503... If he's playing through injury, he's still hitting the ball hard and having poor luck. Not wanting to take on that contract... fine, that makes plenty of sense. Mocking the idea like he's not still an exceptional player is silly. A negative war for 80 games...if he's hitting the ball harder than he has, squaring up more than he has... all of the advanced analytics say he's the same player he was in his best years... he's probably still a very good player. I wouldn't be surprised to see a LA or NYM type team trade for him... If the Pirates would eat some of that money on the backend... I could EASILY be convinced to trade for him if the prospects were reasonable. We'll see at the end of the season as we know this won't happen, but I'd be shocked if we get to the end of the season and Collins has been anywhere near as productive as Reynolds has the rest of the way.