BrewerFan

2018 was hard to watch, but not because of an injury. Rodgers was hurt in 2017 and Brett Hundley went 3-6 while he was out. 3-4 actually and had won two in a row(albeit vs two bad teams), then IIRC, Rodgers came back, we got blown out by the Panthers and Rodgers sat the last game as we were eliminated and Huntley lost the next two and went 3-6 that year. 2013 is when we had Tolzien, Seneca Wallace and then Matt Flynn was put on waivers and we claimed him. He wasn't the same with the shoulder injury, but he could put enough on it to keep us in it. Rodgers came back week 17 vs Chicago, throw to Cobb with the assist from Kuhn on Peppers, got us in as NFCN Champs. 8-7-1. Tolzien would move the ball up and down the field. Came in for Wallace, had nearly 300 yards, threw for 300 yards in his next start, but just threw a lot of picks when we got in the red zone.

I saw some pretty big positives. I thought aspects of the defense improved. The scheme, the play calling...everything but the DL(which I'll touch on and it's understandable why they didn't). The tackling was bad, it's always bad early, they need to play some during pre-season, but that's a given. But the positives, the DBs were pretty good, they were in position at least. Even on that dropped pick 6, they were competitive when they could stay on their feet. A lot of slipping by both teams, but Stokes looked really good, really healthy. Really bad call on the Ja holding that extended that last drive. Nixon, again drops an EASY pick 6(at least he read it). So definitely grading on a curve when I say the DBs looked good, but is there a team with a more talented 11 personnel than Philly? I guess SF with CMac, Kittle, Deebo, Ayiuk and whoever is their #3...but Philly is right there when healthy. Barkley, Goedert, AJ Brown, DeVonta Smith, Jahan Dotson, then you have that OL...that really puts your D in a tough position. Do you play 3 LBs knowing they can run with that huge OL, Hurts and Barkley or do you play Nickel with all that speed and an elite pass-catching back? This is why you play Cooper more(I get it, he was injured, bringing him along slowly, but I think he'll force their hand like Clay did his rookie year). Cooper flashed a few times. He was coming on a big blitz on 3rd down in the 3rd Quarter and slipped, but we had that side overloaded, but since he didn't get home, they hit Smith for a big ~30-yard gain when he shook Nixon. DL just wore down. Looked like that DL we were hoping to see early and the the Eagles just wore them down. Bullard looked really good. McKinney looked good. Quay has a miss where Barkley hits him with a really sick jab step in the hole, but whoever the DT was(I forgot) was absolutely washed out of the play by Mekhi Becton, so that's a tough matchup for Quay, but outside of that, he played...solid. Not great, but solid. Set up the first pick by carrying the TE all the way down the seem. Having two LBers who can do that is huge. Hurts had to try and force the ball in there and McKinney made him pay. Another tweak they have to make is to put Valentine in as the #3 CB. We're REALLY lucky to have Stokes back and so far, looking like he's back to where he was as a rookie...I think. He's such a smooth athlete and was step-for-step with Smith on a few plays, just staying in phase, looked a bit better getting his head around. After two lost years, he's one of the X factors. I hope he makes the decision to re-sign, Franchise or Transition a hard one. ***I thought Jordan Morgan looked good in pass pro and he was one of the 3 guys I had them taking in the 1st rd, but...with hindsight being 20-20, I wish we'd have moved up for Mitchell. That guy is a stud. He reminds me of Ramsey. Physical, fast, cocky in the best way. I think he'll be a DPOY candidate. Anyway, regarding scheme, pretty vanilla, but a few nice wrinkles. In addition to the Cooper blitz, there were a couple others...the CB blitz by Nixon where we got home, forced an errant throw, and another where he threw the ball and they didn't call a grounding(IIRC that was a 2nd level blitz). We were smart rushing Hurts. The negatives were obvious. Poor tackling, they were NOT rallying(I guarantee that will change week 2). The DL was solid early but got wore down when Philly had so many snaps. I understand Gary and Smith/LVN playing to a draw vs that OT combo, it's elite. But you need more from KC/Wyatt/Brooks/Wooden. I'd have to look at the snaps, but you need to rotate more or...something. You're facing Jordan Mailata(6'9 365), Landon Dickerson (6'6 332), Cam Jurgens(6'3 303), Mekhi Becton(6'7 370😉) and then Lane Johnson (6'6 330)...a 235 LB RB back who when healthy is one of the most talented backs in the last decade or so and Jalen Hurts, one of the most physical runners. So we wore down, but we were getting stops and playing really physical vs the run. We'll have another test vs what should be a pretty good line in Indy, but not on the same level. I think in ~10 weeks we'll look at Philly as one of the best teams in the league, a dynamic offense, so long as Barkley is healthy, one of the best run games in the league up there with the Ravens. Especially if Barkley and Becton stay healthy. That's a OL that moves the LOS. We NEED Edge Cooper to step up and have a big rookie year, but going back and watching the game again....I saw enough positives I still believe the Defense will be a top 5-10 defense...and it will create turnovers. So still an ugly game, and not getting it twisted, if I had to hand out grades, I'd give the secondary a C in coverage. It'd be D if this was at home or Philly, but the turf created problems. DL-C- Again, just wore out. LB-D without Cooper, B with him. Tackling-DL was again, good early, but the back 7 was bad. Didn't rally, gave up early. If Hafley is any type of coach, that'll be a noticeable improvement in week 2. One play Quay pulls up thinking Bullard has the tackle and we give up another 8-9 yards. Offense, I'm not going to go too much into it, already a long post. QB/WR/TE they were all out of sync. Dropped balls, Love missed easy throws we know he makes(Watson in the EZ was a big miss). RB-Not impressed with Jacobs, very impressed with Wilson. OL-Need Morgan to win the Job. Wicks was the most disappointing of the group. Watson is a man beater, not a complete WR. And that's fine, he doesn't need to be with the supplemental pieces, but the Eagles played the Fangio Defense(probably because their DC is Vic Fangio) so they kept things in front. We averaged 7.1 Yards a play, but didn't make the plays we were making last year to keep drives going. Should have been up 14-0 early and I think that changes the outlook of teh game, but poor play calling. You're on the 2, 2 1/2 yard line and you run at Jordan Davis and that front? Let Love do his thing there. Offense...defense put them in position with two big plays in plus territory and we scored 3 and 0 respectively. But still like the scheme and personnel. Next week, we NEED to stay on the field more and keep the Colts to ~60 plays, not the 78 the Eagles ran. Give Jacobs/Wilson a chance to establish the run, I'd imagine we'd have some different designed runs for Willis. Some RPOs with easy reads. Maybe Kraft/Musgraves releasing in the flat with Watson coming behind. If he starts, I'll guess Willis has a line in the 12-25 170 yards, 10 carries just to keep the chains moving, 70 yards, Wilson and Jacobs each get 10+ carries and there's going to be a couple of shots at a big play and Willis is going to have to hit it. The Colts will just keep coming up, crowding the LOS. Willis just needs to use his legs and then the other thing he's good at, throwing the deep ball and limit the turnovers. If he hits just one big play for a TD, I think they win it ugly. 23-13, something like that. **I'm also counting on the FG unit to perform...which is another leap of faith...one I'm less confident in, but I'm not changing my outlook on this team after that ONE ugly game vs IMO, the 2nd most talented team in the NFC and most talented East of Santa Clara(excluding GB, we'll have to see exactly where we stack up). 1-1 heading into week 3 and Jordan Love returns! 11-6 still well within reach!

Both? It's the same thing. It's the degree of the knee injury. I don't get why that is a good or bad thing? It seems like you're inferring Love is soft or something.

Dude...Tyson Bagent won two games for the Bears. Mediocre backups can win games... We'd need our D to play great, run the ball and he'd need to make some plays with his legs. I don't think it's crazy to think he could beat the Colts or Titans. He's also got a great deep ball. So...meh, that could help since you know they'd be crowding the box. You'd have to win ugly, but Willis is an amazing athlete...maybe that's enough. He's not going to pick apart defenses, but he may not need to. They cut Clifford and traded for Willis. If there was damming indictments, it was at that point. I'd be looking at Huntley from the Ravens personally. He's on the PS...but he's very similar to Willis.

This really isn't a bad injury. He wears a brace, his mobility will be limited...again, Aaron Jones, same injury, 2-3 weeks and that's for a RB who has to cut. The only thing that scares me is DeForrest Buckner, but we faced the best DL we'll face until...maybe SF? I don't know, who's got a better DL than Philly? I also don't think Love will play this week, but I think he'll be back sooner than later. I don't think they should play a 60% Love...but a 80% Love? I don't know. Love is similar to Rodgers. When Rodgers played with injuries, he'd get the ball out quickly, he'd be throwing on rhythm, things he wasn't doing last week. Might be good for him. 9 days off. I'm not betting on it though.

I think you should probably assume the Brewers, a well-run team, have some level of confidence in his recovery given what they committed to him. Frankie Monas is a bad comparison as the Brewers didn't give him that contract and they're unlikely to be picking it up. I get what you're saying...they should plan for little from Woodruff and be pleasantly surprised, but they're not the Dodgers. It's not like they can go get a couple of aces and then just hope their injured aces come back at their own pace. Either way, I think the Brewers staff going into '25 and '26 looks pretty damn good. Ashby, Hall, Peralta, Misiorowski-hopefully continues to develop as a starter, Gasser maybe in the back end of '25 and for '26, Rea, Meyers, it's as deep with GOOD arms as we've been in a while. When talking about expectations though, I don't think we should "expect" Rea or Myers to put up a sub 3 ERA. But the staff collectively should be good, if not great. I do expect the BP to be dominant. There's no reason the Brewers shouldn't have just an overpowering pen for the foreseeable future. Even if they trade Devin Williams.

You never know what you're going to get after a shoulder and it's probably not fair to expect Woody to be ace when he comes back, but Ashby is pitching better than ever and Woodruff will have had more time to recover. So, I think there's a good chance we see Woodruff most of the way back. I would expect he'd be skipped and he'd throw ~150 innings if things go well, but he's a workhorse.

I don't buy this...just as a rule with athletes of that caliber. You could say the same about Mahomes or...Dak now, Love or really anyone who's gotten paid. It's pretty rare a guy stops caring because they get paid. And Watson had already gotten paid. People forget, he got a massive deal(for the time) from the Texans. I just remember when everything came out and there were a lot of people, respected people in the NFL/College who said if there was ONE person they don't believe did this, it was Watson. And then more came out and more...and it became clear he at BEST did something very inappropriate. He may have lost his confidence or it's hard to lead when people don't respect you. I don't know...that's more likely to me than he got paid and doesn't care. It has happened where people got paid and stopped caring. Albert Haynesworth had the ability to be one of the greatest DTs of all time. Got paid and just fell apart. But I think Watson just lost his swagger, confidence...whatever. All I can say is...I wish it was the Bears that paid him!

Sure...but he DRILLED 66(maaaybe by 5 yards) and he's been so good overall. I'll still take Tucker, but damn, he's good.

Is Justin Tucker about to lose his title(or has he) as the best kicker in the NFL?

I mean...he was a REALLY good QB. I can't believe he got this bad this quickly...but he did. That's alright. The Browns can get out of that in...**checks calendar** 4 years.

It's between a Grade 1 and a Grade 2 MCL. Timeline grade 1, 1-2 weeks. Grade 2 2-4 weeks Both based on pain tolerance. Week 4 is a month from that game Oct 6th. I'd expect him back for the Rams, Week 4 on the 6th.

Truly can't comprehend how spending a 1st rd pick on a guy who you WANT to be your future starter is ALSO neglecting your backup QB position in your world, but...yeah, I don't really give a **** anymore. I can't believe you're STILL on about this. AGAIN, what's it matter? The season is over regardless of Love, right? Same crap as the last 14 years? To be clear -Drafting a a guy in the 1st=neglecting your backup QB because you're actually drafting him to be a starter(Even if he will be a backup in both Rodgers/Loves case for the next several years)....yeah, that makes a TON of sense. -No reason to draft a young QB as we did under Wolf OR like the guy you KEEP yammering about in Flynn. A player we DRAFTED and played well as the backup. Sure. That's bad also. Make sure someone else drafts him and then sign him(I'm sure he'd know the system as well in that scenario). The ONLY scenario you have addressed backup QB is if you bring in an old, washed-up, and expensive veteran QB. Got it. Jesus *****...this is exactly what the ignore feature is for.

You asked; I tried to explain...anyone who knows anything about the Packers knows how they drafted and developed their own backup QBs for years. So that's WHY they would "develop" a QB. And sure, you can say it doesn't "count" when you have a 1st rd pick as your backup all you want, it just doesn't make sense. I don't care if they drafted him to eventually take over. That'd be even MORE telling that they're not just "neglecting" the backup position. Tyson Bagent went 2-2 last year...but you've already determined the Packers can't win and it doesn't really matter anyway as you've given up on the season even BEFORE you knew Love was going to miss time because...after 1 week, the defense wasn't to your liking. So what's the point here? I trust if they think Ryan Tannehill will make them better, they'll bring him in. Otherwise, we'll see what Willis and Clifford can do. I don't know what more you want out of this discussion, but it's all I've got left to give.

I don't know, because that's what they did when they were their MOST successful, they recouped more draft compensation and they always had good backup QBs ready and available...and that is what Gute said he wanted to "get back to," this past year. Why would you want to draft and develop a young player who can be a good backup when you can go year to year with an older veteran? You're right, that makes more sense. No, you just said when it's early, they're not "drafted" to be backups, they're drafted to be starters, so that doesn't...count I guess. Ok...I don't care. I'm going to wait now and see how the games ACTUALLY play out rather than...declaring the season over. You...can do the opposite.

Ok...so draft a QB, but not one early, because then you're drafting them to be a "starter," draft one later, and then you won't have neglected the backup position, right? That's the needle we're trying to thread here? I've never heard that it doesn't count when you expect too much out of your backup QBs...but sure. Despite the time Love and Rodgers were...quite literally backups, it doesn't count because we expected them to be more. Got it. Does this even matter? Didn't you declare the season over due to the defense already anyway?

I agree...particularly with the defense. I get Cooper couldn't play, he was hurt. It's pretty obvious he needs to be the other nickel, but, you need to tackle and get acclimated to tackling. The offense...all the drops/catchable passes that were not converted, I don't know if pre-season helps, but a few series shouldn't hurt. The OL didn't look good, but I do think the Eagles have a great front. Jordan Davis, Jevon Carter(I don't personally think that play was dirty at all...though I was in the minority on Twitter) and Graham are pretty good. We shut down Huff and Sweat. I feel the same about the RBs as I did in the off-season. I'd rather we stuck with Jones and then have Wilson be the #2, but...I'm hoping to be proven wrong there and that we'll be able to run the ball vs most fronts. That Jordan Morgan will take over the job like Jenkins and Tom early in their careers.

LOL...they weren't drafted to start. Every QB you draft, you're drafting them HOPING they'll become a starter. So that's not at all a false equivalency, using Justin Fields and Russell Wilson, two QBs that fell into the Steelers laps because they didn't have ONE good one is a false equivalency. Matt Flynn was a 7th rd pick, not a 2nd.

No...it's still early in his 2nd season, but...they don't look better. It kinda feels like this program turned with Mertz. I just thought it'd be for the better and...it has not been. I'm not blaming one kid, but...that's kinda when there was more excitement. They had Taylor, a really good run game, you thought a great QB would elevate them as Wilson nearly did and it's just been really mediocre since then.

He said we "grossly neglect our Backup QB spot." Our backup QB has Love for years, then Love took over and we drafted a guy in the 5th rd who looked REALLY good in camp as a rookie. We added a QB this past draft, then when they didn't have a good camp, we went out and traded for a guy who'd just been a 3rd rd pick. Why am I even bringing up where Jimmy G was drafted? Gee...could it be to illustrate the balance a team needs with a YOUNG QB(Jimmy G was brought in-in a Love-type situation) and how much draft capital it makes sense to invest with a 25-year-old QB vs a 38-year-old QB? That didn't make sense to you that the draft capital was relevant. "The Packers have never done anything like that." No...they just draft and have 3 straight franchise QBs and THAT provides an impetus for you to be angry... I don't know dude, you've already given up on the season anyway...after ONE loss vs Philly, so...sure, they neglected the backup QB. They made no effort there...

Right. And if there isn't an AWFUL call on Jaire on 3rd down, the Packers are off the field with...I don't know, 6 minutes left. It was a close game vs one of the most talented teams in the league week 1 in Brazil. I get game threads are negative, but that's usually in the moment. A BIG difference as the season goes on is you'll see Cooper out there more on defense...but we played a team a year removed from the SB with Barkley, Brown, Smith, an elite OL and we lost by a possession. The Love injury hurts, but yeah, I don't get the negativity either.

No, we don't know #2 is true. Jimmy G was taken in the 2nd rd by the Pats and then traded and Fields/Wilson is clearly an aberration.

Sure. That is why I didn't compare the IMPACT of losing both, I pointed out that Aaron Jones TWICE last year suffered the same injury at RB, a position where an MCL is much more significant...and he missed 6 weeks. So it's unlikely that the same injury to a QB would "torpedo" our season.

Yeah...MAYBE...if he has the same injury twice.

It is kinda crazy how fatalistic we get(and how quickly). We played a REALLY good team on a bad field. Love didn't play well. We had two third-down penalties that stopped us from getting off the field(the Clark one was legit, the Jaire penalty was terrible). Just a whole bunch of slipping and sliding on open passes or Love missing guys. He didn't play great. The guy who did look pretty damn good is Cooper. I'd like to see Cooper playing more in the future in nickel. You line up McDuffie vs Cooper in man and...that's a bad matchup. I can't imagine how miserable these game threads would be if this was a Cubs forum though!