Raw Biz

You keep coming back to this win estimation. Basically you're saying that if they win more than estimated, its because of the manager? Its not because the pitchers have played even better? I know you're probably going to respond with maybe the pitchers have played better because of the manager. But that's just a terrible manager. Like I've said, I don't think you can use the estimation thing to determine whether or not the manager is good or bad. You can look at how he fills out the lineup, how he manages the bullpen, strategy, etc. edit: Meant to say terrible argument.

RR does give Yuni or McGehee a day off or two. He just replaces them with Counsell and Wilson. Free Taylor Green! The last time Yuni didn't start was 7/17 if I'm not mistaken. I think the last time he's completely missed a game was 6/17. McGehee didn't start 2 games August.

Well I'll take a stab it. McGehee was absolutely atrocious in the first half but since the All-Star break he is .315/.437/.753, which in today's realm of third baseman isn't terrible. Green could have arguable been given a shot earlier but maybe McG picked it up just in time to avoid being benched, we'll probably never now how close Melvin came to calling up Green. Which also points out that RR doesn't make the decision to call up Green or not. I seriously doubt that Green finally got the call because RR stormed into Melvin's office and said I gotta have Green for the playoffs. Melvin likely decided it was time. As far as YB starting it comes down to there not being a better option. I don't believe Counsell or Wilson are better options. Hairston got picked up later in the 2nd half but he has only played 1 game at SS this year and only 62 last year, he just may not be viewed as a SS anymore. And since he has barely played it in 2 years and even less prior to that, I don't see how any fan can really have a knowledgeable opinion on how well he'd perform there since no one outside the coaching staffs of his respective teams has seem much of him there. If you are one that puts faith in the defensive stats he had negative value as a SS for 2 out of the last 3 years, (not counting his 1 game there this year). Not to mention if Hairston started at SS then one of Counsell or Wilson plays 2nd and again, neither are any better than YB.I said every game. I've said I don't expect them to lose their starting jobs. But why aren't they given say 1 day off a week? That is what I'm getting at. And I do believe that Roenicke had something to do with Green not being up until now. Managers and GMs work together. All Roenicke had to do was tell Melvin he didn't want Green up because it would affect "team chemistry" or some crap like that. And since they were winning, Melvin waited. Then Melvin finally decided that Green is a better option for the playoffs and since rosters would be expanding anyway, he called up Green a few days ago. But Roenicke has still shown he doesn't trust Green simply because he's a rookie. He's basically said so himself.

Haudricourt has said that the Brewers can still offer him arbitration. I highly doubt he would accept because he knows he won't be the closer. Also, Boras wouldn't get any of that money until he signs a new contract. Worst-case, he accepts and Brewers have a legit 8-9 combo for one more year. And they could always try to trade him.

It would be Saturday, if anything (vs. RHP Norris). Wandy Rodriguez pitches Sunday, and there's no way RR is running Green out there in his first start vs. a LHP. Didn't look at the pitching matchups. Then I would guess that Green won't get a start until at least Monday.

The team is winning. This team probably would've won with just about any manager because of its talent alone. Obviously the Brewers aren't the Yankees but if you stuck a 12 year old kid in that dugout and told him to manage, I bet that team would still come close to making the playoffs. The point I've been making all along is that the Brewers could have had a few extra wins if Roenicke made better decisions. We've also come back to win games that Loe blew by pitching to power-hitting lefties (which Roenicke should have known to not use Loe in those situations). Also, the Roenicke supporters have not explained why Yuni/McGehee are still starting every game. Even if you throw out all in-game strategy stuff, there is no way I can see anyone reasonably defend that fact when there are better options on the bench.

Choosing to lay a bunt down in the 1st inning of one game won't have a large effect on the whole year obviously. But when you start doing it every game, squeeze twice a month, become predictable in when you bunt (i.e. not changing strategy when you see the IF charging in), refuse to sit two guys having terrible years when there are better options, etc., all of that stuff adds up. So yes, I think these bad decisions definitely have a large effect on the overall success of the team.

Nobody realistically expects Green to just be handed the starting job. But what is the harm in giving him a start or two a week? Would that really derail McGehee's confidence? Most teams give almost all their starters a day or two off a week. What makes McGehee/Yuni so special that they start every game?

It has nothing to do with 1982. It's a good looking jersey.Exactly. I bet a lot of the young people who wear the old logo stuff couldn't name 3 players on that team not named Yount & Molitor. They're not living in 1982, it's just a cool looking logo.

I expect McGehee will get the starts tomorrow and Saturday as well. But Green had better get a start on Sunday. I don't think asking for one start a week is too much.

Part of that, yes. Like others have said, good managers can have bad teams and bad managers can have good teams. Do you honestly think playing Yuni everyday is a good idea? I'm sure everyone would like him released but obviously that won't happen. But why does he play everyday while Hart, Hairston, McGehee, etc. all get days off? You could argue that there are more guys capable of playing SS on the team than any other position. And Yuni is just one example. And I still don't buy into your expected wins argument. Like I said, expected by who? Some stat/formula? That doesn't tell the whole story in terms of being a good manager. Look at the decisions. If Roenicke had a player worse than Yuni (nearly impossible I know) starting at SS everyday but had a better (though younger) player sitting on the bench all year and the Brewers won 90 games instead of say 87, would you still consider him a good manager? No, because that better player could've added even more wins and he rode the bench all year. I know another hypothetical but I'm just giving an example of how bad decisions can lead to fewer wins while still "exceeding expectations."

Because who knows exactly what that level of ability is? You mentioned earlier about this team exceeding expectations right now because they were only predicted to get something like 87 wins and they were on pace for 93 (just made those up for argument). Well that number really doesn't mean much to me because it is created by formulas, stats, etc. What people are arguing is that the team has won despite bad decisions from Roenicke and that the fact that this team has a lot of talent and many people could probably have done almost as well (i.e. team wins) just by letting them play. We are saying that Roenicke isn't putting the team in a position to win when he continues to play a very bad SS EVERY DAY without sitting him and then reasoning it with the "fact" that he has hit the ball hard, despite atrocious overall season numbers. He also played inferior players at various positions throughout the year when other options were available on the bench, simply because those inferior players were "veterans." He also stuck with Loe for too long in the 8th inning role, fell in love with the squeeze (and the bunt in general), and countless other things. The point is that just because this team has played better than expected does not mean that he is a good manager. Most of the time the players (mostly pitching recently) have been the reason for success. Expectations also change as the season goes on. Also, here's an example. Let's say the Brewers went 8-2 over ten games. Most of the wins were just from the players doing well with no real tough decisions to be made. Then in one of the losses, the Brewers were up by 1 in the late innings with Kotsay having started in CF. Roenicke has already used Morgan to PH and Hairston was already PH for with Counsell. So Kotsay stays in and doesn't catch a ball that any normal CF gets to, resulting in a triple. Then a sac fly, Yuni doesn't get to ball, etc, Brewers lose. In the other loss, Brewers up big so Roenicke uses Loe against some tough lefties who end up hitting him hard, Brewers lose etc. Basically my point is sure 8-2 looks good on paper but it could've been 10-0. Those losses should have been wins but ended up being losses because of bad management. I know this is all hypothetical and the players still need to perform but we need to get as many wins as possible. Just because we are "exceeding expectations" doesn't mean there is good managing going on.

This just further shows me that Roenicke is a terrible manager (IMO). He thinks yesterday was the first game where Yuni didn't hit a ball hard and because of that, he doesn't need to sit. Yet Hart has sat I believe 3 times since Yuni last has while Hart is clearly a better player. He also thinks Yuni still plays well defensively, which is just untrue. He might make a few flashy plays but for the most part, he is still awful. And finally, he didn't play Taylor Green last night because "it wouldn't be fair" with the game on the line. So I guess instead it's fair to make him sit every game, even though he's probably the best bat on the bench (and better than some starters).

So Buster Posey's injury only affects him when it comes to sports. Ok, I get it. Thanks for helping me understand.Sure it sucks for him in real life. But if I was a Rockies/Dodgers/Giants/DBacks fan, I would've been happy from a sports standpoint. That would be like Pujols going down for the season for us.

Sure, why not? If someone said it, it honestly wouldn't bother me like it bothers some people here. I personally wouldn't say that but I wouldn't think someone was a horrible person for doing so. These guys make millions upon millions of dollars to play a game. I wouldn't wish death or life-threatening injury on anyone but I wouldn't be upset if someone broke a bone.

I know Brewerfan is policed a lot more (and better) than other forums out there. And I honestly think it is better because of it. But people attacking those (including me) who said it would be good for the team if Yuni got injured need to settle down. A few of us made comments that maybe it would be good for the team if Yuni was hurt and now we're suddenly "terrible human beings," "classless," "not true sports fans," etc. I didn't think everyone was so PC. This honestly feels like a kindergarten class right now.

Are you serious??? No one wanted him to die, just be out for the season. Clearly this would make the team better, cheering for your favorite team to get better is fine. He is getting paid $6 MM this year, he will still earn it with a cast on his hand. This isn't little league Exactly. Obviously we don't want a life-threatening injury or anything. But a broken hand? I can't believe people are getting that upset. It honestly would make the Brewers better.

What are we, Cubs fans? Sorry, it may not be PC but that is the only way he will be out of the lineup. He can heal with his $6 million or whatever.

And that's why you don't bunt there. Roenicke is an idiot for calling that. Hopefully Yuni's hand is broken.

Well, that was nerve-racking.

No. We go to Houston after this.

Terrible 0-2 pitch. When you throw an 88 MPH fastball, you can't throw that crap there.

Did it again.

Front Row Amy spotting.

Real classy fake out with the fan there Albert.