Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year

[jerichoholicninja]

Right along with the "best shape of my career" thread there should be a "player lost in arbitration, he now hates his team and will never resign with them" thread.

[MrTPlush]

Who cares is Hader is ticked off at us and will never resign here. We would never extend/resign him anyway and he likely is traded with 2-3 left of control. Management is already eyeballing his trade value.

[brewcrewdue80]

Nothing about what Hader said is any problem or controversy. It becomes a controversy because CC agreed with Hader's side. Let's give Hader an effective season. Great Arb 2. Hader asks for 11mil Brewers offer 7.8mil. Bad look for the team. To the players on Milw who will enter their Arb seasons-Woodruff, and Hiura a season later if that concern for Super 2 comes true. Do you think this now has a trickle effect on Draft picks? It's now well known by June 2nd draft that the Brewers aren't rewarding their players in Arb. Their Manager agrees. Should a top 30 player who goes to Milw in the 70s take the deal that is of a 40s size value? drafted player thinks," But wait when I get to Arb with this team, I'm going to be hosed" "Lemme just take that College offer and look to be drafted in 2 or 3 years"

That's going to happen too. Why? Because agian, when the Brewers play nationally televised games, those ESPN guys are only going to talk about this controversy. Draft Prospect sees this watching the games and it's instilled in his values on Milwaukee.

Counsell should have been the "It's the process in Arb. Teams win, Players will win. That stuff is not for me to worry about, or take sides on. David is who you should ask that question but he likely won't be picking any sides either" But he chose Hader's side.

[pacopete4]

As much as some are trying to make this something, it isn’t. It’s the system in place and ALL teams play by it and players know this. This is a huge nothing-burger and I cannot believe what some are trying to make this. Hader, Counsell, Stearns... none of them are in the wrong.

[adambr2]

Counsell taking Hader's side is not that big of a deal. It is important for managers to earn the respect of their players and players certainly want to feel supported in sensitive matters such as these.

 

Counsell was a little more candid than I would have normally expected but I guarantee Hader feels appreciated for it and I guarantee that David Stearns gets it and it is not going to affect his relationship with Craig in the least - who also has front office experience and understands all sides of this.

[rickh150]

Hader has been complaining about salary the past two years and the Brewers are, as of now, scheduled to try to limit his wages the next three offseasons. Yeah.... nothing to see here, I guess..... I hope.

[TJseven7]

Hader has been complaining about salary the past two years and the Brewers are, as of now, scheduled to try to limit his wages the next three offseasons. Yeah.... nothing to see here, I guess..... I hope.

 

Happens everywhere. Off season is business. In season is love. The nature of pro sports.

 

GB has busted balls on contracts a million times over and guys go out and try to earn their pay raise. I mean how many people get passed over for a promotion and continue on in their same job trying to get the next opportunity. How many people get a raise they think is low and keep doing their job. The bitterness and spite angle of it is overstated.

[DuWayne Steurer]

For all we know, CC may have even had a meeting with Stearns where he let him know he was going to publicly say that he thought Hader deserves to win his case. They may have mutually agreed that that was a good move. We don't know.

 

Stearns & Counsell usually appear to be on the same page and seem to have a really good working relationship so I don't think something like this even if it wasn't pre-planned is going to really create a big rift.

 

And the positive is Hader has a manager that he feels has his back.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Hader can be as bitter as he wants to be - if he wants bigger raises he's got to continue pitching great over the next four seasons the Brewers have his rights controlled. That's just how this process works. He may have complained earlier about his league minimum salaries the past two seasons - but I'm pretty sure I also heard nothing about his team approaching the Brewers publicly asking the sides to work out a longterm extension that would have paid him more money upfront and perhaps bought out a season of his free agency. And honestly by the time he reaches free agency he'll be 30, so the Brewers may be inclined to not want an extension beyond that age, anyways.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if at some point the Brewers and Hader agree to a contract that guarantees his salary over the next 4 seasons - it wouldn't buy out any free agent years but it would also avoid going through the arbitration process over and over again. I believe that's what they did for the final 2-3 seasons with Prince/Boras. However, if the Brewers are hesitant to dole out significant new money beyond the current CBA deadline, I'm guessing they'll continue to take this year to year until there is clarity on any new arby process....or perhaps they have tentative plans to trade Hader following the 2021 season (which is the current CBA's deadline) - that would likely be when his pricetag would begin getting cumbersome for the Brewers even if no changes were made to the arbitration process.

[MrTPlush]

This is a massive non story/non issue.

 

After everyone got done giving their reaction everything went back to normal. I doubt Hader, Stearns, or Counsell care at all today. Hader knows that is how the system works.

[sveumrules]

In 2008 Prince Fielder was upset with his salary. All the team did that season was break a 26 year postseason drought & Prince went on to mash for four more years before getting paid more commensurately with his actual value in FA.

 

It seems to me Hader understands the arbitration system is broken for relievers, but wanted to go to trial on the off chance he won (believe he said in his interview he wasn't expecting to) & also to bring attention to the issue.

 

He also surely understands the only way to eventually get paid more commensurately with his actual value is by continuing to perform at an elite level, so he should have plenty of motivation to do so.

[rickh150]

Most do not even discuss their contract. Hader did. Twice. He made it an issue, and it is an issue moving forward with him since he has three more years of arby and I doubt the Brewers want to argue over a few million with him three more times. It's news to me because this, along with his higher salary each year, is nudging him out the door via trade.

[rickh150]

Also, if I'm Hader, and my manager thinks I should be getting more, why am I not getting a couple mil more? Come on, skip, you act like your hands are tied when they really are not. If I am that important, make a bigger fuss on my behalf. CC opened himself up to fair criticism all the way around when he started giving his opinion on arbitration rulings.

 

Baseball is not known for players sitting out, but Hader could pull an Emmitt Smith or Sterling Sharpe at some point..... it wouldn't be surprising. He's making a fuss already. Funny thing, if he doesn't blow the last two of the season, I feel for him a bit. Now? Put your nose to the ground, be quiet and thankful for the Super 2, and just play ball.

[rickh150]

In 2008 Prince Fielder was upset with his salary. All the team did that season was break a 26 year postseason drought & Prince went on to mash for four more years before getting paid more commensurately with his actual value in FA.

 

It seems to me Hader understands the arbitration system is broken for relievers, but wanted to go to trial on the off chance he won (believe he said in his interview he wasn't expecting to) & also to bring attention to the issue.

 

He also surely understands the only way to eventually get paid more commensurately with his actual value is by continuing to perform at an elite level, so he should have plenty of motivation to do so.

With

 

Glad you brought this up... Fielder did a two year deal during his arby years. I doubt DM wanted to go back and forth with $ each and every arby year....much like DS and Hader, I presume.

[adambr2]

Also, if I'm Hader, and my manager thinks I should be getting more, why am I not getting a couple mil more? Come on, skip, you act like your hands are tied when they really are not. If I am that important, make a bigger fuss on my behalf. CC opened himself up to fair criticism all the way around when he started giving his opinion on arbitration rulings.

 

Baseball is not known for players sitting out, but Hader could pull an Emmitt Smith or Sterling Sharpe at some point..... it wouldn't be surprising. He's making a fuss already. Funny thing, if he doesn't blow the last two of the season, I feel for him a bit. Now? Put your nose to the ground, be quiet and thankful for the Super 2, and just play ball.

 

Yes, Counsell's hands are tied. What do you expect him to do? Pay him out of his own pocket? Speak on his behalf at his arbitration hearing? Come on. Both things would be way outside the limits of professionalism, and even Hader knows that.

 

No, Hader is not going to be able to hold out or ask for his release. Simply not how it works in MLB.

 

The irony is that he is probably going to do exactly what you said in your last sentence if you give him the chance to. He simply responded to a question he was asked.

[TJseven7]

Also, if I'm Hader, and my manager thinks I should be getting more, why am I not getting a couple mil more? Come on, skip, you act like your hands are tied when they really are not. If I am that important, make a bigger fuss on my behalf. CC opened himself up to fair criticism all the way around when he started giving his opinion on arbitration rulings.

 

Baseball is not known for players sitting out, but Hader could pull an Emmitt Smith or Sterling Sharpe at some point..... it wouldn't be surprising. He's making a fuss already. Funny thing, if he doesn't blow the last two of the season, I feel for him a bit. Now? Put your nose to the ground, be quiet and thankful for the Super 2, and just play ball.

 

Yes, Counsell's hands are tied. What do you expect him to do? Pay him out of his own pocket? Speak on his behalf at his arbitration hearing? Come on. Both things would be way outside the limits of professionalism, and even Hader knows that.

 

No, Hader is not going to be able to hold out or ask for his release. Simply not how it works in MLB.

 

The irony is that he is probably going to do exactly what you said in your last sentence if you give him the chance to. He simply responded to a question he was asked.

 

It's no different than your company limiting raises at 2.5% and your boss saying you deserve 5%. Of course you do, but you're going to get the max 2.5% and then go back to doing exactly what you did in the past which made you worth 5%.

 

This is business. Not a fairy tale.

[rickh150]

You hear managers taking sides in arbitration rulings often? That's professional? If he's choosing sides, yeah, then tell Attanasio to pay him, offer him a longer term contract. Otherwise, stick to the script, zip it, and make it a non issue.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

You hear managers taking sides in arbitration rulings often? That's professional? If he's choosing sides, yeah, then tell Attanasio to pay him, offer him a longer term contract. Otherwise, stick to the script, zip it, and make it a non issue.

 

I think most people are viewing it exactly as that ... a non-issue.

[rickh150]

You hear managers taking sides in arbitration rulings often? That's professional? If he's choosing sides, yeah, then tell Attanasio to pay him, offer him a longer term contract. Otherwise, stick to the script, zip it, and make it a non issue.

 

I think most people are viewing it exactly as that ... a non-issue.

 

Not Hader and not the Brewers GM, IMO. The idea of going to arby three times with him in the future likely brings about a long term deal or trade.

[rickh150]

You hear managers taking sides in arbitration rulings often? That's professional? If he's choosing sides, yeah, then tell Attanasio to pay him, offer him a longer term contract. Otherwise, stick to the script, zip it, and make it a non issue.

 

I think most people are viewing it exactly as that ... a non-issue.

 

Not Hader and not the Brewers GM, IMO. The idea of going to arby three times with him in the future likely brings about a long term deal or trade.

[sveumrules]

Hader seems pretty cool about the whole thing to me...

[sveumrules]

Hader seems pretty cool about the whole thing to me...

[SeaBass]

You hear managers taking sides in arbitration rulings often? That's professional? If he's choosing sides, yeah, then tell Attanasio to pay him, offer him a longer term contract. Otherwise, stick to the script, zip it, and make it a non issue.

 

I think most people are viewing it exactly as that ... a non-issue.

 

Not Hader and not the Brewers GM, IMO. The idea of going to arby three times with him in the future likely brings about a long term deal or trade.

You're really reaching...

 

Not that he couldn't be traded because that's already been brought up. That just won't be the reason why.

[SeaBass]

You hear managers taking sides in arbitration rulings often? That's professional? If he's choosing sides, yeah, then tell Attanasio to pay him, offer him a longer term contract. Otherwise, stick to the script, zip it, and make it a non issue.

 

I think most people are viewing it exactly as that ... a non-issue.

 

Not Hader and not the Brewers GM, IMO. The idea of going to arby three times with him in the future likely brings about a long term deal or trade.

You're really reaching...

 

Not that he couldn't be traded because that's already been brought up. That just won't be the reason why.

[MrTPlush]

Gotta feel for Hader, he is like an elite RB...but the MLB version. Dudes arm may fall off before he ever sees free agency and make less in his entire career than he could in one year if he was a free agent right now.