The balk is perhaps the dumbest call in all of sports

[Brock Beauchamp]

I was on a date night with my wife last night so I didn’t get to watch any baseball but what the hell was that call?

I hate the balk call 90% of the time. It’s wildly unpredictable and stupid. 

[Austin Tatious]

I don't have a problem with the rule as a whole.  A pitcher pump fakes to the plate and then whirls and does a pickoff move.  That's a violation unless you want to change how the game is played.  But, the interpretation with Gustave last night was horrendous.  

[Jim French Stepstool]

Umps hang their hats on the "meant to deceive" aspect of it. I can see it applied to pickoff attempts at 1B, sometimes you can even pick it out from the stands if you're paying attention.

Yesterdays' application was garbage.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Can that ump be traded or DFA'd, since this is the Transactions/Rumors section?

[Team Canada]

Moving to Majors forum.

[NBBrewFan]

Players are lucky to be successful more than 33% of the time (not making out).  Umps overall are 85-95% correct in their calls.  Human beings make mistakes.  The problem for the Brewers as they have evolved into a pitching dominant, weak offense is that successful games (wins) are likely to be low scoring or 1 run differential affairs which means that UMP success rate is going to be critical in determining outcome as are mistakes by the Brewers and mistakes by their opponents.  Having so little of a margin of error is going to lead to more cases like Saturday where a Bad BALK call ended up deciding the game.  Have their been studies where it's clear the umpiring is getting worse over time?  or are we just sensitive to the calls which impact a 1-1 game that are mostly irrelevant in a 4-1 game?

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

Have their been studies where it's clear the umpiring is getting worse over time?  or are we just sensitive to the calls which impact a 1-1 game that are mostly irrelevant in a 4-1 game?

I think the umpiring is probably better than it ever has been in baseball. But it's still flawed in significant ways and I think the balk rule is a glaring example. I don't even really blame the umpires, the rule itself is so nebulous and often about "intent", which is hard to objectively rule on.

There are obvious balks. We've all seen them. Then there is what happened the other day.

I'm not sure how the rule needs to be fixed but it's pretty broken right now.

[jerichoholicninja]

 

22 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Umps hang their hats on the "meant to deceive" aspect of it. I can see it applied to pickoff attempts at 1B, sometimes you can even pick it out from the stands if you're paying attention.

Yesterdays' application was garbage.

Pretty much any lefty pickoff throw to first does so with intent to deceive the runner. The balk has a place and a purpose but it also covers some totally pointless and stupid things that it shouldn't.

[Brock Beauchamp]

This is, in my opinion, a clear example of a justified balk call. Drake twitched toward the plate, which is clearly a violation.

That didn't happen the other night.

 

[jerichoholicninja]

By rule, sure, I guess. But what advantage did the pitcher get by doing that? How did that move negatively impact the runners or batters? Not at all.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, jerichoholicninja said:

By rule, sure, I guess. But what advantage did the pitcher get by doing that? How did that move negatively impact the runners or batters? Not at all.

Oh, I agree the rule should be changed. That was just an example of the umpire actually following the rule as it is written.

[jerichoholicninja]

I still haven't actually seen a video of the Gustave balk. The only clip I find they are showing the crowd and then the announcers go "that's a balk" and never actually show it. I assumed it was somewhat legitimate since no one got tossed or even put up an argument.

[NBBrewFan]

27 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

This is, in my opinion, a clear example of a justified balk call. Drake twitched toward the plate, which is clearly a violation.

That didn't happen the other night.

 

The end of the clip with CC coming out is really interesting.  Here we have an example of a clear violation of the Balk rule and CC argues about the call.  Saturday we have a complete boneheaded call by the Ump and CC doesn't make a move.  Clearly there's a lot of professionals confused about the Balk rule, but to be honest I don't know how to clean it up without making it worse. 

[folly412]

There are a number of stupid rules that could use revisiting: ticky tack balks being interpreted as "deceiving", a slight flinch after running through first base being interpreted as "intent" to go to second, and reviewing slides in case his foot or hand came off the bag for a tenth of a second.  Not that some umpires aren't giddy about making these subjective calls for attention, but fix the rulebook and the problems go away.

[torts]

IMO, a balk call shouldnt be called until after the pitch is thrown (either home or to a base).  I think that would fix the problem, and could make the 'balk' call more of a managers challenge rather than an umpires subjective call.

[jerichoholicninja]

When it's called really depends on the umpire and when it happens. A balk can be a delayed dead ball and the offense is given the choice of taking the result of the play or the balk, same as catcher's inference.

EDIT- I think I get what you're saying now that balks should only be limited to while throwing a pitch or to a base. In theory that makes sense but I guess if a pitcher realizes mid movement he's doing a balk he could just not throw the ball anywhere and negate the ability for a call to be made.

[Underachiever]

I have been watching baseball for a long time. I have no idea what makes a balk a balk. I am always surprised when it is called. Especially with Clevinger allowed to this. That's not deceptive?

 

[Playing Catch]

I dislike "non-balk" pickoffs at 1st more than I dislike weird, letter-of-the-law balks that aren't actually deceiving the runners. I think I speak for most fans that would like to have more stolen bases in the game.

I don't like limiting pickoff attempts as they are experimenting with in some minors league. I just want baserunners to be able to be able to get slightly better jumps. If baserunners are more dangerous in this fashion, suddenly singles become more valuable, both as a strategy to get on base, but also as a way to get runs in.

[Oxy]

11 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I dislike "non-balk" pickoffs at 1st more than I dislike weird, letter-of-the-law balks that aren't actually deceiving the runners. I think I speak for most fans that would like to have more stolen bases in the game.

I don't like limiting pickoff attempts as they are experimenting with in some minors league. I just want baserunners to be able to be able to get slightly better jumps. If baserunners are more dangerous in this fashion, suddenly singles become more valuable, both as a strategy to get on base, but also as a way to get runs in.

The perfect example of this is Kershaw's pick-off in the all-star game.  He rocked and tilted toward the plate in an OBVIOUS attempt to "deceive the runner"...then threw to first in a successful attempt at picking off Ohtani.  Meanwhile, Gustave got called for a balk with zero attempt at any deception in a game that actually had playoff consequences.  Sad.

[Lathund]

17 hours ago, Underachiever said:

I have been watching baseball for a long time. I have no idea what makes a balk a balk. I am always surprised when it is called. Especially with Clevinger allowed to this. That's not deceptive?

 

Does he do that when there are runners on base too? I don't watch SD enough to know, but I suspect not. 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I know the thread is about balks, but I nominate "guy beat throw but came off the bag for a femtosecond while the tag was still applied (and maybe the tag helped direct him off) and is now out" for "dumbest call in all of sports."

I am going to beat this horse until both it and I die on this hill.

[hawing]

On 7/19/2022 at 12:54 PM, Underachiever said:

I have been watching baseball for a long time. I have no idea what makes a balk a balk. I am always surprised when it is called. Especially with Clevinger allowed to this. That's not deceptive?

 

I hadn't realized I had never seen Mike Clevinger pitch until he and the Pads visited Milwaukee this year.  I was stunned by his rocking and kind of lanky-janky delivery.  It can only be meant as a distraction.  ??‍♀️

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 minutes ago, hawing said:

I hadn't realized I had never seen Mike Clevinger pitch until he and the Pads visited Milwaukee this year.  I was stunned by his rocking and kind of lanky-janky delivery.  It can only be meant as a distraction.  ??‍♀️

I find it maddening to watch him pitch.