Article: Where Does the Roster Stand Post Renfroe Trade?

[UpandIn]

13 hours ago, Hopper said:

The Brewers didn't develop Lauer, and I'd go as far as to say they didn't develop Hader either...

What do you consider developing a pitcher then?

Hader had spent a little time in AA for Houston. He got to Milwaukee, his K's kept going up, two years later he was the 33rd ranked prospect in one top 100, 38 in MLB Pipeline(he wasn't top 100 before the trade). 

Phillips and Santana were the top two prospects in that trade. Houser had thrown 33 innings above HiA.

So who did develop Hader? The Orioles? The Astros? Or the team that spent the most time with him and turned him into a top 40 prospect?

 

"Developing" a pitcher is a lot more than simply drafting him. It's...well, developing him into a MLB pitcher. 
With Lauer, they had him throw his slider about 11% more and his 4 seamer about 11% less...

 

By the logic you're using, did we develop Peralta? We didn't draft him...at what point does the team that got him to the Majors get credit for developing him? Example...if Makenzie Gore breaks out and becomes an ace with the Nats, I'd consider them having developed him...particularly given his struggles, not the Padres who rode his raw talent and then didn't help him make the adjustments. 

Corey Knebel is another guy. We got him to change the way he pitched...he became an elite late inning reliever. 

[UpandIn]

13 hours ago, Hopper said:

The Brewers didn't develop Lauer, and I'd go as far as to say they didn't develop Hader either...

What do you consider developing a pitcher then?

Hader had spent a little time in AA for Houston. He got to Milwaukee, his K's kept going up, two years later he was the 33rd ranked prospect in one top 100, 38 in MLB Pipeline(he wasn't top 100 before the trade). 

Phillips and Santana were the top two prospects in that trade. Houser had thrown 33 innings above HiA.

So who did develop Hader? The Orioles? The Astros? Or the team that spent the most time with him and turned him into a top 40 prospect?

 

"Developing" a pitcher is a lot more than simply drafting him. It's...well, developing him into a MLB pitcher. 
With Lauer, they had him throw his slider about 11% more and his 4 seamer about 11% less...

 

By the logic you're using, did we develop Peralta? We didn't draft him...at what point does the team that got him to the Majors get credit for developing him? Example...if Makenzie Gore breaks out and becomes an ace with the Nats, I'd consider them having developed him...particularly given his struggles, not the Padres who rode his raw talent and then didn't help him make the adjustments. 

Corey Knebel is another guy. We got him to change the way he pitched...he became an elite late inning reliever. 

[monty57]

On 11/29/2022 at 6:29 AM, UpandIn said:

So who did develop Hader? The Orioles? The Astros? Or the team that spent the most time with him and turned him into a top 40 prospect?

 

I'd say all of the above. No one really knows everything that goes into why one player "clicks" while another doesn't.

Heck, Hader may have watched a motivational video on a bus trip one day, and that was where everything came together.

However, the Brewers have had success with getting pitchers to the MLB and having success when they get there, whether they are drafted by them, traded for while they're in the minors, or acquired after they've already had some time in the majors. This success should give us some hope for pitchers we have acquired like Gasser and the guys they got in the Renfroe trade.

What could bring even more hope for the future is that they're finally drafting some position players who are showing success through the minors. Hopefully that will transition to the majors. 

It looks like Stearns put a lot into the system from top-to-bottom that hopefully will pay dividends well into the future. And hopefully, since it seems to be working, Arnold understands this system and continues to do what they've been doing.

[UpandIn]

6 minutes ago, monty57 said:

I'd say all of the above. No one really knows everything that goes into why one player "clicks" while another doesn't.

Heck, Hader may have watched a motivational video on a bus trip one day, and that was where everything came together.

However, the Brewers have had success with getting pitchers to the MLB and having success when they get there, whether they are drafted by them, traded for while they're in the minors, or acquired after they've already had some time in the majors. This success should give us some hope for pitchers we have acquired like Gasser and the guys they got in the Renfroe trade.

What could bring even more hope for the future is that they're finally drafting some position players who are showing success through the minors. Hopefully that will transition to the majors. 

It looks like Stearns put a lot into the system from top-to-bottom that hopefully will pay dividends well into the future. And hopefully, since it seems to be working, Arnold understands this system and continues to do what they've been doing.

Fair enough...they all get some credit. But I don't know how you pick out the team that he actually developed broke through with, become the best in MLB at what he does and say THAT team doesn't get credit for developing him. 

Jimmy Nelson is another guy who was ascending and if not an ace yet, was on the verge of becoming an ace.

Whatever they're doing, that infrastructure should still be in place as Stearns obviously hasn't left yet, so it's not as though we're losing personnel. 

[sveumrules]

41 minutes ago, monty57 said:

It looks like Stearns put a lot into the system from top-to-bottom that hopefully will pay dividends well into the future. And hopefully, since it seems to be working, Arnold understands this system and continues to do what they've been doing.

If all else fails maybe the password for the Astros proprietary database is still Eckstein123

[igor67]

I suspect at least one player out of the Rowdy, Wong, Hiura group ends up traded. The alternative is trying to find that utility type player hitter to complement that group but it feels a little more likely to me that they end up doing something to shuffle that situation via trade. If the pitching comes back around and some of the OFers emerge it is a workable group, but not beyond next year.