Tyrone Taylor out for the first month of the season

[Outlander]

Counsell has indicated Tyrone Taylor will miss the first month of the season.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/03/brewers-tyrone-taylor-elbow-out-month-injured-list.html

The impact of the injury has been mentioned in other threads but since an initial time table has been given by Counsell what is eveyrbody's thoughts? I would love to see Frelick but imagine it will be Naquin. Maybe Perkins makes the teams as a right handed OF. Still think Anderson will be the primary 3B. Any chance of picking up a guy like Profar since he is still out there?

 

[Brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, Outlander said:

Counsell has indicated Tyrone Taylor will miss the first month of the season.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/03/brewers-tyrone-taylor-elbow-out-month-injured-list.html

The impact of the injury has been mentioned in other threads but since an initial time table has been given by Counsell what is eveyrbody's thoughts? I would love to see Frelick but imagine it will be Naquin. Maybe Perkins makes the teams as a right handed OF. Still think Anderson will be the primary 3B. Any chance of picking up a guy like Profar since he is still out there?

 

Thing to remember is that Taylor was going to be the backup CF, too. That hurts a guy like Naquin, who is pretty much limited to the corners.

Frelick would be a great fit in that sense with the ability to play all 3 OF positions. Would be even better if he hit right-handed, but that’s getting greedy.

[KeithStone53151]

19 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Thing to remember is that Taylor was going to be the backup CF, too. That hurts a guy like Naquin, who is pretty much limited to the corners.

Frelick would be a great fit in that sense with the ability to play all 3 OF positions. Would be even better if he hit right-handed, but that’s getting greedy.

We have enough RH hitters in the lineup against LH pitching. Also look at Frelick's career minor league splits, he's just fine against LH pitching.

[wiguy94]

This is a pretty big loss. Tyrone is the only RHH OF on the 40-man (Perkins switch hitter). Definitely don't feel good about Mitchell and Naquin/Frelick being in our lineup against LHP. 

 

I guess Brewers could push Anderson to RF against LHP. 

[DR28]

5 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

This is a pretty big loss. Tyrone is the only RHH OF on the 40-man (Perkins switch hitter). Definitely don't feel good about Mitchell and Naquin/Frelick being in our lineup against LHP. 

 

I guess Brewers could push Anderson to RF against LHP. 

Right, that's likely what will happen... Anderson in RF, Urias to 3B, Toro or Brosseau at 2B.

[KeithStone53151]

Mitchell 2022 - 847 OPS vs RHP 768 OPS vs LHP

Frelick 2022 - 890 OPS vs RHP 865 OPS vs LHP

Generally speaking you don't want to get overly carried away platooning players, especially young promising players. It's one thing to platoon an established fringe guy like Naquin. They need to continue to face same handed pitching at this point to continue developing those skills. I don't really see a problem rolling out a lineup with Yelich, Frelick, Mitchell, Adames, Urias, Brosseau, Anderson, Contreras, RH DH against a left handed starter. You can even throw Turang in there and have 4 LH bats. LH starters also generally aren't specifically good against same handed hitters like relievers will tend to be. It's pretty normal for a LH starter to see 8-9 RH hitters in the lineup.

[wiguy94]

4 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Mitchell 2022 - 847 OPS vs RHP 768 OPS vs LHP

Frelick 2022 - 890 OPS vs RHP 865 OPS vs LHP

Generally speaking you don't want to get overly carried away platooning players, especially young promising players. It's one thing to platoon an established fringe guy like Naquin. They need to continue to face same handed pitching at this point to continue developing those skills. I don't really see a problem rolling out a lineup with Yelich, Frelick, Mitchell, Adames, Urias, Brosseau, Anderson, Contreras, RH DH against a left handed starter. You can even throw Turang in there and have 4 LH bats. LH starters also generally aren't specifically good against same handed hitters like relievers will tend to be. It's pretty normal for a LH starter to see 8-9 RH hitters in the lineup.

Hitting LHP in the minors is not the same as hitting LHP in the majors. 

[KeithStone53151]

Just now, wiguy94 said:

Hitting LHP in the minors is not the same as hitting LHP in the majors. 

So you want to turn two of our very top hitting prospects into platoon bats upon hitting the majors? Don't even give them the chance? That seems completely crazy....

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

So you want to turn two of our very top hitting prospects into platoon bats upon hitting the majors? Don't even give them the chance? That seems completely crazy....

Mitchell is not one of our top hitting prospects. His speed/defense/position is what carries his prospect level. FG has Mitchell with both below average hit/power grades. Pipeline has him with average hit and below average power. 

Suggesting the Brewers shouldn't play 3 LHH rookies against LHP isn't exactly a crazy suggestion. 

[KeithStone53151]

4 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Mitchell is not one of our top hitting prospects. His speed/defense/position is what carries his prospect level. FG has Mitchell with both below average hit/power grades. Pipeline has him with average hit and below average power. 

Suggesting the Brewers shouldn't play 3 LHH rookies against LHP isn't exactly a crazy suggestion. 

Considering all 3 LHH rookies are mlb ready and in our top 5 prospects, and none of the 3 have significant LH/RH splits, yes it is a crazy suggestion for an entire season. In September/October...sure. Best bat is all that matters. In April/May...it's crazy.

[wiguy94]

18 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Considering all 3 LHH rookies are mlb ready and in our top 5 prospects, and none of the 3 have significant LH/RH splits, yes it is a crazy suggestion for an entire season. In September/October...sure. Best bat is all that matters. In April/May...it's crazy.

There's a difference between hard platooning them and making sure we don't have 3 LHH rookies in the lineup against a LHP. Also LHP in the minor leagues aren't comparable to LHP in the MLB, so those splits are absolutely not close to being guaranteed in the majors. We were one of the worst teams in the MLB against LHP last season. Starting 3 LHH rookies against LHP would be a great way to guarantee that happens again. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Well, this news makes the opening day lineup in the outfield much more interesting.

[KeithStone53151]

58 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

There's a difference between hard platooning them and making sure we don't have 3 LHH rookies in the lineup against a LHP. Also LHP in the minor leagues aren't comparable to LHP in the MLB, so those splits are absolutely not close to being guaranteed in the majors. We were one of the worst teams in the MLB against LHP last season. Starting 3 LHH rookies against LHP would be a great way to guarantee that happens again. 

Can you point out where in my post that I said those splits were guaranteed? If any of these guys were specifically really bad against left handed pitchers, I would like to think management would know and/or it would show up in the numbers. Mitchell had an 80 OPS swing, Frelick a 25 OPS swing, Turang was actually better against lefties by a very slim margin. At minimum, Frelick/Turang are candidates to not be protected at all against lefties. There's some argument to be made for Mitchell, but as I've noted, these guys need to face lefties to improve against them. I personally just have no problem with all 3 of these guys playing more or less everyday including against lefties most of the time if they earn everyday spots. The biggest issue with starting 3 rookies is simply starting 3 rookies is a high variance strategy. The Brewers may not due that to avoid that risk, but it shouldn't have anything to do with protecting any of these guys against left handed pitching. As soon as Frelick/Mitchell/Turang are up, they should play minimum 5 days a week and the starting pitcher handedness shouldn't matter.

[MVP2110]

I think the issue is trying to balance win now & development. It's definitely best for each of them to consistently face lefties, but that also likely hurts the team this season. Having 3 LH rookies in the lineup against lefties is asking for us to struggle, but it's also what is probably best for each individual player so it'll come down to trying to balance that out

[wiguy94]

9 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

I think the issue is trying to balance win now & development. It's definitely best for each of them to consistently face lefties, but that also likely hurts the team this season. Having 3 LH rookies in the lineup against lefties is asking for us to struggle, but it's also what is probably best for each individual player so it'll come down to trying to balance that out

Exactly. Need to balance winning/development. We can't just throw them into the fire and say "work your way through the inevitable struggles" especially if there are 3 of them getting routine playing time.

[monty57]

This makes the Anderson signing look really good. I think the Brewers would rather keep Frelick in the minors to gain service time. Anderson's ability to play 3B and corner OF allows the Brewers to keep another utility guy like Toro or Brosseau.

I think that someone like Naquin now makes the opening day roster, with Anderson playing RF vs lefties and Brosseau playing 3B.

[DR28]

33 minutes ago, monty57 said:

This makes the Anderson signing look really good. I think the Brewers would rather keep Frelick in the minors to gain service time. Anderson's ability to play 3B and corner OF allows the Brewers to keep another utility guy like Toro or Brosseau.

I think that someone like Naquin now makes the opening day roster, with Anderson playing RF vs lefties and Brosseau playing 3B.

Is Brosseau not a good fielder at 3B or 2B? I can't remember which position it was mentioned that he's a butcher... If it's 3B, I would think would be Anderson in RF, Urias at 3B and Brosseau at 2B vs LHP.

Really curious to see who wins 4th OF job since TT will start season on IL... I'm guessing coming OD it will be Yelich in LF, Mitchell in CF and Naquin in RF vs RHP.

[Lathund]

The issue with Naquin replacing him is that it still leaves them without a second CF on the roster. Naquin and Yelich both have a fair bit of experience there, but they both rate very poorly there by most defensive metrics. Perhaps they're willing to start Mitchell (almost) every day and live with bad defence there once a week, but I doubt it. 

So the more logical choice if bringing up an OF is Perkins, since he is already on the 40-man. and can be optioned once Taylor is back. 

There is always the chance of Wiemer or Frelick; It's what I'd like to see personally, but getting a year extra service time, and saving the 40-man roster spot for a bit longer, are pretty strong arguments against it. 

Another way to go is a more indirect one. It depends on whether they liked what they saw of Turang in CF or not. Because if they liked him there, then this just makes the case for him on the roster even stronger. Means they get the best defensive 2B in there, they get a strong defensive backup at SS, and they get a CF backup. And he's already on the 40-man. I'd probably have Turang on the roster regardless, but this is an indirect way to get more of him there. This would rely on Anderson playing mostly RF, and Winker/Hiura getting more corner time than expected. 

 

[monty57]

10 minutes ago, DR28 said:

Is Brosseau not a good fielder at 3B or 2B? I can't remember which position it was mentioned that he's a butcher... If it's 3B, I would think would be Anderson in RF, Urias at 3B and Brosseau at 2B vs LHP.

Really curious to see who wins 4th OF job since TT will start season on IL... I'm guessing coming OD it will be Yelich in LF, Mitchell in CF and Naquin in RF vs RHP.

I think Brosseau is below average defensively anywhere you put him, but he can play 2B or 3B. Depends on whether they want to keep Urias at one position or move him between 2B and 3B. Both of them are probably better at second base than third.

[monty57]

6 minutes ago, Lathund said:

The issue with Naquin replacing him is that it still leaves them without a second CF on the roster. Naquin and Yelich both have a fair bit of experience there, but they both rate very poorly there by most defensive metrics. Perhaps they're willing to start Mitchell (almost) every day and live with bad defence there once a week, but I doubt it. 

So the more logical choice if bringing up an OF is Perkins, since he is already on the 40-man. and can be optioned once Taylor is back. 

There is always the chance of Wiemer or Frelick; It's what I'd like to see personally, but getting a year extra service time, and saving the 40-man roster spot for a bit longer, are pretty strong arguments against it. 

Another way to go is a more indirect one. It depends on whether they liked what they saw of Turang in CF or not. Because if they liked him there, then this just makes the case for him on the roster even stronger. Means they get the best defensive 2B in there, they get a strong defensive backup at SS, and they get a CF backup. And he's already on the 40-man. I'd probably have Turang on the roster regardless, but this is an indirect way to get more of him there. This would rely on Anderson playing mostly RF, and Winker/Hiura getting more corner time than expected. 

 

Good point about having a decent backup CF. If it's only for a few weeks to start the season until they can bring up Frelick, then they may be willing to risk it and hope Mitchell can play everyday. If it's going to be longer, then they will definitely need someone who can play passable defense in CF. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I feel like it's pretty dangerous to throw Mitchell out there every day and hope things just work out. Except the Brewers don't have anyone behind him who can be relied upon, either.

[MVP2110]

10 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I feel like it's pretty dangerous to throw Mitchell out there every day and hope things just work out. Except the Brewers don't have anyone behind him who can be relied upon, either.

I think to start the season it's fine. If he struggles you can switch over to Frelick when the time comes. But Mitchell does give you a decent floor with stellar defense and baserunning that he at minimum shouldn't be worthless as the everyday CF for a little bit 

[Brewcrew82]

I liked Naquin a lot more when paired with Taylor. Now, I’m not so sure, as his defense and hitting vs. LHP are so bad that he’s been barely above replacement level. 

I hope to God that, if the team is going to play service time games with Frelick, it’s only to the middle of April and not until June. 

[DR28]

36 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I liked Naquin a lot more when paired with Taylor. Now, I’m not so sure, as his defense and hitting vs. LHP are so bad that he’s been barely above replacement level. 

I hope to God that, if the team is going to play service time games with Frelick, it’s only to the middle of April and not until June. 

That's why Naquin will most likely be paired with Anderson in RF, Naquin isnt a every day bat.

[Brewcrew82]

28 minutes ago, DR28 said:

That's why Naquin will most likely be paired with Anderson in RF, Naquin isnt an every day bat.

Difference is Naquin would have played less with Taylor. His bat against RHP is more useful in short stints. Over the long run, he’s barely above replacement level. 

In your scenario, Naquin will get pretty much all of the ABs in RF vs RHP. There’s a reason why he was available as a NRI so late in the off-season.