Robert Murray...Arnold "hesitant" to add a bat

[JefferyLeonard]

This is ridiculous if that is how they are approaching things. They care way to damn much about "run -revention" and not enough about scoring runs. Who cares if a "bat" can play defense? 1. There's a DH now, 2. You need to be able to score some damn runs. I said it yesterday and i will say it again. If they don't add a "needle moving" bat, that is a slap in the face to all Brewer fans. Period. Go big or go home. None of these 'middling" bat types, what good will that do? Nothing! if that's all they will do, then stand pat and watch the team tank the rest of the year. I'll be LIVID if they go through ANOTHER trade deadline and only do upgrades "around the margins". Such small time thinking.

https://fansided.com/2023/07/26/mlb-trade-deadline-white-sox-brewers-cardinals-giants/

 

Milwaukee Brewers

The Brewers have been active in making phone calls looking for an infielder or outfielder to improve the lineup, but the key word out of Milwaukee continues to be that they will only do so “responsibly.”

Brewers general manager Matt Arnold told Adam McCalvy of MLB.com that he is hesitant to add a bat that will impact the team’s strengths: pitching and defense. “Look, I think we want to try to help this team … anytime you want to add a quote-unquote bat, sometimes those guys aren’t very good defenders,” Arnold said. “The reality is sometimes those guys might not make your team better.”

The Brewers will be buyers. They will not trade Corbin Burnes or any of their other top players. But veteran catcher Victor Caratini has emerged as a trade option, according to sources.

[wiguy94]

Taking a quote out of context and putting it as your title is incredibly misleading. Lame post.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Taking a quote out of context and putting it as your title is incredibly misleading. Lame post.

Maybe, but ya gotta MOVE THAT NEEDLE!!!!!!

[sveumrules]

It's ridiculous to approach things responsibly?

What kind of big time thinking move would you prefer to see them make?

[JefferyLeonard]

Just now, sveumrules said:

It's ridiculous to approach things responsibly?

What kind of big time thinking move would you prefer to see them make?

If you have to ask what kind of "big time" move they should make, then you're a small time thinker. Bats are ALWAYS available for the right price. So go get an All star bat and give up some of those "precious" prospects(who most likely won't work out anyway) and go for it. This is likely the last year of Burnes/Woodruff, but just keep making "minor" non needle moving trades and HOPE the pitching staff only gives up 1 run every game and you some how, some way score 2. 

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, JefferyLeonard said:

If you have to ask what kind of "big time" move they should make, then you're a small time thinker. Bats are ALWAYS available for the right price. So go get an All star bat and give up some of those "precious" prospects(who most likely won't work out anyway) and go for it. This is likely the last year of Burnes/Woodruff, but just keep making "minor" non needle moving trades and HOPE the pitching staff only gives up 1 run every game and you some how, some way score 2. 

Which All Star bat would you target and which prospects would you be willing to surrender to facilitate the deal?

[JefferyLeonard]

6 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Taking a quote out of context and putting it as your title is incredibly misleading. Lame post.

It was absolutely NOT taken out of context, he told "Mccalvy he was hesitant to add "a bat" because in his words "a lot of times those guys don'tmake your team better".  So great job Arnold, I mean why even try then, right? What's the worst that happens, the offense gets...worse?? That's being hesitant to add a "bat". I have no doubt he'd add a bat like CJ Cron etc, but big deal, how much does that improve the offense? Answer: VERY marginally, maybe. 

[Brewcrew82]

4 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

If you have to ask what kind of "big time" move they should make, then you're a small time thinker. Bats are ALWAYS available for the right price. So go get an All star bat and give up some of those "precious" prospects(who most likely won't work out anyway) and go for it. This is likely the last year of Burnes/Woodruff, but just keep making "minor" non needle moving trades and HOPE the pitching staff only gives up 1 run every game and you some how, some way score 2. 

Except what Arnold is saying is they have to be cautious about who they add, especially if it’s a non-1B or DH, because whatever additional offensive value is provided can easily be canceled out and more by giving away runs on the defensive end. That’s not what you want with a team that is going to win games for the foreseeable future with its pitching and defense. 

You totally took his quote out of context.  If they add a bat, it has to make sense from an entire team perspective, which is what really matters. Now, cool your jets because there’s some of those guys out there and I’m inclined to believe Arnold will get one of them.

[wiguy94]

5 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

If you have to ask what kind of "big time" move they should make, then you're a small time thinker. Bats are ALWAYS available for the right price. So go get an All star bat and give up some of those "precious" prospects(who most likely won't work out anyway) and go for it. This is likely the last year of Burnes/Woodruff, but just keep making "minor" non needle moving trades and HOPE the pitching staff only gives up 1 run every game and you some how, some way score 2. 

Please point out the "All star bats" that are on the market this year.

[brooks_quichenick]

The most interesting tidbit from the Robert Murray piece is this, imo:

Quote

They will not trade Corbin Burnes or any of their other top players. But veteran catcher Victor Caratini has emerged as a trade option, according to sources.

Not sure what to think of that.

[wiguy94]

Just now, brooks_quichenick said:

The most interesting tidbit from the Robert Murray piece is this, imo:

Not sure what to think of that.

Honestly what I read from that is Murray doesn't have good sources. Seems highly improbable that the Brewers would trade their ace's personal catcher in the middle of a divisional race especially because Caratini isn't some highly valuable piece.

[wiguy94]

4 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

It was absolutely NOT taken out of context, he told "Mccalvy he was hesitant to add "a bat" because in his words "a lot of times those guys don'tmake your team better".  So great job Arnold, I mean why even try then, right? What's the worst that happens, the offense gets...worse?? That's being hesitant to add a "bat". I have no doubt he'd add a bat like CJ Cron etc, but big deal, how much does that improve the offense? Answer: VERY marginally, maybe. 

Yes and putting "hesitant to add bats" in your title while ignoring the context is absolutely the definition of a misleading title 

[JefferyLeonard]

1 minute ago, sveumrules said:

Which All Star bat would you target and which prospects would you be willing to surrender to facilitate the deal?

I'll give up anyone, absolutely anyone in the system. Churio, Misorowski, etc I will also trade any of Perkins, Hiura, Monasterio. etc(as fillers) No prospect is untouchable. My first targets would be Arenado and Goldy. I'd also target Juan Soto, Luis Robert, Jose Ramirez, There's tons of guys, and yes almost every single one of them is acquirable if you pay the right price. Think about this logically, so you deal some prospectst his year(who more likely than not will not meet their potential anyway), you will recoup that and then some when you deal Woody and Burnes, so what are you really losing?

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, JefferyLeonard said:

I'll give up anyone, absolutely anyone in the system. Churio, Misorowski, etc I will also trade any of Perkins, Hiura, Monasterio. etc(as fillers) No prospect is untouchable. My first targets would be Arenado and Goldy. I'd also target Juan Soto, Luis Robert, Jose Ramirez, There's tons of guys, and yes almost every single one of them is acquirable if you pay the right price. Think about this logically, so you deal some prospectst his year(who more likely than not will not meet their potential anyway), you will recoup that and then some when you deal Woody and Burnes, so what are you really losing?

You just listed off so many players who aren't even on the market. 

[JefferyLeonard]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

Yes and putting "hesitant to add bats" in your title while ignoring the context is absolutely the definition of a misleading title 

We'll see, he can go out and get a guy like Tim Anderson, CJ cron etc and you all will drool over what a "great move" it was and technically can then say "see, he added a bat(s)!" Great job Arnold! Go get some guys that are struggling and think you can suddenly turn them around, like you do with all your FA signings every year. How's that working out for them? Adding a middling bat(s), isn't going to do much, and I think you all are smart enough to know that.

[wiguy94]

Just now, JefferyLeonard said:

We'll see, he can go out and get a guy like Tim Anderson, CJ cron etc and you all will drool over what a "great move" it was and technically can then say "see, he added a bat(s)!" Great job Arnold! Go get some guys that are struggling and think you can suddenly turn them around, like you do with all your FA signings every year. How's that working out for them? Adding a middling bat(s), isn't going to do much, and I think you all are smart enough to know that.

Yeah, I would definitely drool over adding Tim Anderson and his mid-50's wRC+ with a 64% ground ball rate. You caught me!

[JefferyLeonard]

2 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

You just listed off so many players who aren't even on the market. 

Read what i said please...EVERYONE is on the market if you offer enough. Everyone has a price. If they technically aren't "on the market" force them to be "on the market" with an offer they can't refuse.

[wiguy94]

Just now, JefferyLeonard said:

Read what i said please...EVERYONE is on the market if you offer enough. Everyone has a price. If they technically aren't "on the market" force them to be "on the market" with an offer they can't refuse.

Yeesh. That's a horrible precedent to set for a FO. Just basically setting yourself up to get taken to town on every trade if you develop a reputation for trading at "whatever the cost"...Very thankful the Brewers have a responsible FO that isn't blinded by the short term like you clearly are.

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Read what i said please...EVERYONE is on the market if you offer enough. Everyone has a price. If they technically aren't "on the market" force them to be "on the market" with an offer they can't refuse.

If the expectation is "overpay so much you make someone trade a player they had no intention of dealing in the first place"...then yeah, I don't think the Brewers will be doing that.

[owbc]

5 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Read what i said please...EVERYONE is on the market if you offer enough. Everyone has a price. If they technically aren't "on the market" force them to be "on the market" with an offer they can't refuse.

No, they are either on or off the market. If the Brewers made a "can't refuse" offer for Soto that convinced the Padres to make a trade, the first thing the Padres would do is call up other potential trade parters and say "the Brewers offered X, are you going to counter?". At which point the little birdies would pick it up and there would be a story on ESPN that evening about how Soto is now "on the market" and suddenly 10 other GMs would call the Padres with their own offers. 

At the end of the day it comes down to having the right set of trade chips that fit the needs of the trade partner and are better chips than what your competition is asking. Or maybe you get lucky and you find out the Oakland A's really like Esteury Ruiz for some unknown reason. 

I'll just also philosophically say that I don't want to sacrifice the future for 2023. We have no hope of getting a first round bye so we're going to have to play a tough wild card series and one more bat isn't going to be the difference maker in that scenario. 

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, owbc said:

I'll just also philosophically say that I don't want to sacrifice the future for 2023. We have no hope of getting a first round bye so we're going to have to play a tough wild card series and one more bat isn't going to be the difference maker in that scenario. 

Brewers after today should only be 2 games behind the Dodgers for the 2nd seed in the NL so I wouldn't say we have no hope for getting a first round bye.

[JefferyLeonard]

8 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

If the expectation is "overpay so much you make someone trade a player they had no intention of dealing in the first place"...then yeah, I don't think the Brewers will be doing that.

Define "overpay", Just because this board is notoriously in love with "prospects", doesn't mean the deal(whatever prospects it included) would be an over pay. Tell me how you know for certain guys like Churio, Misorowski, etc will be bonafide studs in the majors. If you can tell me that factually, I will revise my statement. The problem is you can't, and you know that. So if you know going in that you aren't positive Churio will be the next Ken Griffey jr, or Misorowski will be the next Nolan Ryan, then how would including them be an "overpay"? It would only be an overpay" to those here that drool over prospects. They drool over them, and are the same ones that loved Turang and Weimer(both perfect examples of what "prospects" are likely to become). 

So say you get Arenado/Goldy for example, and it cost you Mis and Churio, BUT the Brewers won the WS, would that still be an over pay? Especially considering you can get the same level prospects or better when you deal Woody/Burnes, right?

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, JefferyLeonard said:

So say you get Arenado/Goldy for example, and it cost you Mis and Churio, BUT the Brewers won the WS, would that still be an over pay? Especially considering you can get the same level prospects or better when you deal Woody/Burnes, right?

I highly doubt the Cardinals would trade Arenado/Goldy to a division rival and vice versa, so your premise is faulty to begin with.

If they did and the Brewers won the WS it might be an overpay or it might not. What if the Cardinals subsequently won two World Series with Chourio/Misio?

Or for a tangible example that actually happened, what if the Brewers traded for Greinke to move the needle only to never make the World Series while the Royals won one and lost one with Cain, Escobar, and the guys they got for Odorizzi?

[JefferyLeonard]

13 minutes ago, owbc said:

No, they are either on or off the market. If the Brewers made a "can't refuse" offer for Soto that convinced the Padres to make a trade, the first thing the Padres would do is call up other potential trade parters and say "the Brewers offered X, are you going to counter?". At which point the little birdies would pick it up and there would be a story on ESPN that evening about how Soto is now "on the market" and suddenly 10 other GMs would call the Padres with their own offers. 

At the end of the day it comes down to having the right set of trade chips that fit the needs of the trade partner and are better chips than what your competition is asking. Or maybe you get lucky and you find out the Oakland A's really like Esteury Ruiz for some unknown reason. 

I'll just also philosophically say that I don't want to sacrifice the future for 2023. We have no hope of getting a first round bye so we're going to have to play a tough wild card series and one more bat isn't going to be the difference maker in that scenario. 

Then go get multiple bats. They don't all have to be "big time" bats. Say you get one "big time" bat and THEN add a couple other mid level bats, that could be enough. But just adding say 3 "middling" bats thinking it will be the difference, isn't likely to work. 

[Brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Define "overpay", Just because this board is notoriously in love with "prospects", doesn't mean the deal(whatever prospects it included) would be an over pay. Tell me how you know for certain guys like Churio, Misorowski, etc will be bonafide studs in the majors. If you can tell me that factually, I will revise my statement. The problem is you can't, and you know that. So if you know going in that you aren't positive Churio will be the next Ken Griffey jr, or Misorowski will be the next Nolan Ryan, then how would including them be an "overpay"? It would only be an overpay" to those here that drool over prospects. They drool over them, and are the same ones that loved Turang and Weimer(both perfect examples of what "prospects" are likely to become). 

So say you get Arenado/Goldy for example, and it cost you Mis and Churio, BUT the Brewers won the WS, would that still be an over pay? Especially considering you can get the same level prospects or better when you deal Woody/Burnes, right?

Brewers are not getting a Chourio if/when they trade Burnes and Woodruff in the offseason. You're talking about a consensus top 5 prospect in baseball and probably the highest-upside player in all the minors.