Robert Murray...Arnold "hesitant" to add a bat

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, JefferyLeonard said:

This is EXACTLY the type of big move I'm lobbying for. the brewers have the prospects to get it done, but they aren't bold enough to even attempt something like this because of "Muh prospects". The thing is Ohtani fills two spots..another starting pitcher, AND the best hitter in baseball. Even if it didn't get them a world series, I bet it would sell out the stadium almost every night the rest of the season, merchandise sales would soar, it would be a financial boon for Mark A. That's the kind of "out of the box" thinking I'd like to see from them. 

Sadly, I still think there would be some people here that wouldn't make this deal, because of the precious "prospects" the Crew would have to give up.

Ohtani is not being traded by the Angels. He's off the market, as the Angels are going for the postseason. 

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

This is EXACTLY the type of big move I'm lobbying for. the brewers have the prospects to get it done, but they aren't bold enough to even attempt something like this because of "Muh prospects". The thing is Ohtani fills two spots..another starting pitcher, AND the best hitter in baseball. Even if it didn't get them a world series, I bet it would sell out the stadium almost every night the rest of the season, merchandise sales would soar, it would be a financial boon for Mark A. That's the kind of "out of the box" thinking I'd like to see from them. 

Sadly, I still think there would be some people here that wouldn't make this deal, because of the precious "prospects" the Crew would have to give up.

Why are you surprised the FO would take a longer than 2 months view into perspective? These people have jobs on the line. They can’t think like you do where only the current year matters or they would end up like the Mets and Padres with bloated payrolls with old and underperforming stars.

[HarveysWBs]

1 minute ago, JefferyLeonard said:

This is EXACTLY the type of big move I'm lobbying for. the brewers have the prospects to get it done, but they aren't bold enough to even attempt something like this because of "Muh prospects". The thing is Ohtani fills two spots..another starting pitcher, AND the best hitter in baseball. Even if it didn't get them a world series, I bet it would sell out the stadium almost every night the rest of the season, merchandise sales would soar, it would be a financial boon for Mark A. That's the kind of "out of the box" thinking I'd like to see from them. 

Sadly, I still think there would be some people here that wouldn't make this deal, because of the precious "prospects" the Crew would have to give up.

Ah, some common ground then!  Alas, as has just been reported, the Angels are pulling Ohtani off the market.  If you follow the link to the story, the most salient point to our discussion is that, apparently, the Angels decided against selling in part because there were not any teams willing to offer their best prospects for Ohtani.  If NO ONE is going to part with their best future players for the greatest player alive having the greatest season in living memory then it would seem it isn’t just the Brewers that aren’t thinking big enough…

[Redd Vencher]

The 2023 Oakland A's would be expected to beat the Atlanta Braves about once in every 5 playoff length series. Since the talent in the playoffs is packed closer together it's essentially 50-50 and at worst 40-60 in a given playoff series. At 50-50 each series, a team without a bye has a a 6.25% chance to win the World Series and a team with a buy has a 12.5% chance to win a WS. Let's accept the premise that the Brewers would be the worst playoff team and be disfavored in every series, they'd have a 2.56% chance at the World Series. Let's say for sake of argument they empty out the farm for Goldy, Arenado, and Robert and they go from a team without a bye to a team with a bye and favored in every series. They have a 21.6% chance to win the World Series, or better put they still have nearly 80% chance of not winning the World Series.

Given the offensive struggles, nabbing some guys that are good bets to put up 100-110 wRC+ and not kill us on defense is the best play for a World Series. 

[JefferyLeonard]

27 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Why are you surprised the FO would take a longer than 2 months view into perspective? These people have jobs on the line. They can’t think like you do where only the current year matters or they would end up like the Mets and Padres with bloated payrolls with old and underperforming stars.

Wow! They can Predict the future?? That's a pretty special talent to be honest. 

[MilwaukeeBeers]

I think the only possible "needle mover" for us with a reasonable price will be Teoscar Hernandez. But given the mess that is the AL will the Mariners even be sellers? I think there are a lot of dancers looking for help but not that many partners at prom this year. Please don't be disappointed though when we only add a middle reliever and that is all.

[MVP2110]

25 minutes ago, MilwaukeeBeers said:

I think the only possible "needle mover" for us with a reasonable price will be Teoscar Hernandez. But given the mess that is the AL will the Mariners even be sellers? I think there are a lot of dancers looking for help but not that many partners at prom this year. Please don't be disappointed though when we only add a middle reliever and that is all.

Teoscar Hernandez has an OPS+ of 97. Give me Candelario all day over him. 

[wiguy94]

21 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

Teoscar Hernandez has an OPS+ of 97. Give me Candelario all day over him. 

Teoscar also has a .338 xwOBA compared to Candelario's .324 xwOBA. Will Teoscar regress to the mean especially if he moved to a more hitter friendly park? Will Candelario be able to continue his overperformance? It's a lot more complicated than just looking at their OPS+ or wRC+.

[MVP2110]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

Teoscar also has a .338 xwOBA compared to Candelario's .324 xwOBA. Will Teoscar regress to the mean especially if he moved to a more hitter friendly park? Will Candelario be able to continue his overperformance? It's a lot more complicated than just looking at their OPS+ or wRC+.

A .014 xwOBA difference hardly changes my opinion. That isn't so drastic to make me think Teoscar is the only "needle moving" bat available and in fact I'd still prefer Candelario although I'd be fine with Hernandez. I just see OF as less of a need than 1b/3b/DH 

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

A .014 xwOBA difference hardly changes my opinion. That isn't so drastic to make me think Teoscar is the only "needle moving" bat available and in fact I'd still prefer Candelario although I'd be fine with Hernandez. I just see OF as less of a need than 1b/3b/DH 

Teoscar could very easily DH as the Brewers would likely prefer to keep their OF trio of Yelich-Wiemer-Frelick playing most days as they value defense in their OF. So he would be a DH or 4th/5th OF depending on if they kept Perkins on the roster.

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 hours ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Well you go ahead and get giddy when they acquire a middling bat, and it does essentially nothing to change the LU(still not able to score runs in key spots etc). I'm so tired of hearing "The Brewers can't afford this or that". It's a total cop out and it's obvious those lies have infiltrated a majority of the fanbase who buy into it. The Brewers CAN do whatever they want to do. Period. That is 100% factual. It's what they CHOOSE to do is the difference. there is a BIG distinction there. they are NOT the same thing. 

I'm not the type of fan that gets overly emotional when "my" team doesn't see things the way I want them to. I tend to be more open-minded than that. So I doubt I'll "get giddy". I'll analyze the acquisition, the cost, and make a determination as to how I feel about it.

As far as the economics of the game...........compared to other teams, no, they don't have the revenue streams some other teams have. That's a fact. But it's not germaine to this particular debate. IMO doing the things you suggest would be irresponsible to their overall ability to contend regardless of $$$. Other than that, unless you're a member of their accounting dept you're making statements you couldn't possibly be able to back up. But I get the frustration.

 

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 hours ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Exactly! Give me proven talent, over "potential" talent every single time. 

What if the potential talent turns out to be better than the proven talent? 

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Wow! They can Predict the future?? That's a pretty special talent to be honest. 

I think it's more a case of acknowledging that there IS a future.

I like passionate fans, I salute you for that. But I'll probably think of this thread every time I see one of those commercials about people who need to get out from under their $80,000 credit card debt (the money in this case being represented by talent stream).

[MVP2110]

7 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Teoscar could very easily DH as the Brewers would likely prefer to keep their OF trio of Yelich-Wiemer-Frelick playing most days as they value defense in their OF. So he would be a DH or 4th/5th OF depending on if they kept Perkins on the roster.

Candelario could also DH while getting plenty of starts at 1st or 3rd. I guess my main question to you is why is Teoscar a needle moving bat but Candelario isn't?

[wiguy94]

1 hour ago, MVP2110 said:

Candelario could also DH while getting plenty of starts at 1st or 3rd. I guess my main question to you is why is Teoscar a needle moving bat but Candelario isn't?

I have no clue where I ever said Teoscar is needle moving and Candelario is not. I simply said there’s more to look at than just OPS+ and wRC+ in response to you trying to brush off Hernandez due to his wRC+

[MVP2110]

40 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

I have no clue where I ever said Teoscar is needle moving and Candelario is not. I simply said there’s more to look at than just OPS+ and wRC+ in response to you trying to brush off Hernandez due to his wRC+

My apologies, my initial response was to someone stating Teoscar Hernandez was the only needle moving bat on the market which was my main point of disagreement. 

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

My apologies, my initial response was to someone stating Teoscar Hernandez was the only needle moving bat on the market which was my main point of disagreement. 

Yeah I certainly wouldn’t consider Teoscar or Candelario as “needle moving” bats. I don’t think there’s going to be a single “needle moving” bat on the market this year, but Brewers don’t need needle moving, they need anything that could help at 1B and DH

[MVP2110]

9 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Yeah I certainly wouldn’t consider Teoscar or Candelario as “needle moving” bats. I don’t think there’s going to be a single “needle moving” bat on the market this year, but Brewers don’t need needle moving, they need anything that could help at 1B and DH

Jesse Winker has an OPS+ this year of 60. I think replacing that with anyone who can be average to slightly above average alone is "needle moving". Same thing at 1st where Rowdy & Owen Miller have an OPS+ in the 80s this season and have also provided weak defense. 1st & DH seem like the most obvious spots to improve the lineup to me

[wiguy94]

15 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

Jesse Winker has an OPS+ this year of 60. I think replacing that with anyone who can be average to slightly above average alone is "needle moving". Same thing at 1st where Rowdy & Owen Miller have an OPS+ in the 80s this season and have also provided weak defense. 1st & DH seem like the most obvious spots to improve the lineup to me

Oh yeah in the context of our team an above league average bat may be considered needle moving for sure haha. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

Jesse Winker has an OPS+ this year of 60. I think replacing that with anyone who can be average to slightly above average alone is "needle moving". Same thing at 1st where Rowdy & Owen Miller have an OPS+ in the 80s this season and have also provided weak defense. 1st & DH seem like the most obvious spots to improve the lineup to me

Agree 100% re 1B & DH being positions of greatest need. I'd just like to give a little shout out to Miller. He'll never be Todd Helton around the bag but it looks like he's put in the work & gotten better. Made the play on a very tough in-between throw yesterday.

[owbc]

Poor Teoscar is going to be victim #1 of the recent trend of every right hander learning to throw a sweeper. He can't lay off that pitch even when it ends up 3 feet off the outside corner. 

He's leading MLB in strikeouts with 136.

[Lloyd330]

With the White sox beginning to sell - Have a strange feeling that Andrew Benintendi will be a brewer

[BlazingGunz]

Ouch I hope not - that is a brutal deal he signed

[Lloyd330]

29 minutes ago, BlazingGunz said:

Ouch I hope not - that is a brutal deal he signed

DAmn...Didn't think it was that bad...No to him

[Lloyd330]

Lane Thomas it is.