Taylor, Houser to NYM

[beekay414]

2 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Yes the Brewers a team who needs to win in the margins because we carry low payrolls giving up quality depth pieces is something that shouldn't just be brushed off like it's nothing.

The big picture is this very likely is a precursor to a sell off and 2024 retool year which will make the trade make sense. People like you acting like this trade is a good trade if the idea is to contend next year are the ones who aren't seeing the big picture.

Where have I given off that I expect to "contend" in 2024? This trade wasn't made with the year 2024 in mind. I don't know how you can't see that yet.

[wiguy94]

Just now, beekay414 said:

Where have I given off that I expect to "contend" in 2024? This trade wasn't made with the year 2024 in mind. I don't know how you can't see that yet.

Because you and others have claimed this move was to clear salary and 40 man spots for other moves...?

[beekay414]

3 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Wow. You saw Crow pitch? I stand down. You're clearly the expert on Coleman Crow!

Well you're certainly not one so I'm failing to see your point here? You're overrating Brewers farmhands (I mean c'mon Ryan Brady?) but I'm sure I can trust your Coleman Crow opinion truly.

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

Because you and others have claimed this move was to clear salary and 40 man spots for other moves...?

I haven't said that once

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, wiguy94 said:

Because you and others have claimed this move was to clear salary and 40 man spots for other moves...?

And how is that not beneficial for a retooling? 

A Burnes/Adames/Williams trade is likely creating more 40 man spots that will need to be filled. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

When you are going into the season with FOUR young outfielders all more than capable of playing CF along with the other OF positions, with one of them signed to an 8 year pre-mlb contract extension and just added to the 40 man roster, and your current franchise player based on contract size also will likely play more than half the time in LF, your 30 yr old 5th/6th OF on the 40 man roster is pretty much expendable, especially once he starts making more than league minimum as he works through salary arbitration.

My mistake before thinking Taylor is further along in his years of MLB service time at 30 yrs old.  At his age, it's alot more likely he'll get nontendered in the next offseason or two and maybe the Brewers can bring him back to be that super 4th OF again for a couple months a season.

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

Well you're certainly not one so I'm failing to see your point here? You're overrating Brewers farmhands (I mean c'mon Ryan Brady?) but I'm sure I can trust your Coleman Crow opinion truly.

I've never mentioned Ryan Brady lol

[tmwiese55]

2 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Joey Wiemer, Owen Miller, Blake Perkins

All capable 4th OFers in the system now. 

All 3 guys mocked the second half of last season on here and Miller/PErkins are more the AAAA level guys.   Wiemer as of now should be nowhere near an MLB plate.   I do agree for depth guys they're fine or whatever, we've certainly had much worse in those spots.  But Taylor is better, he was their 2nd best OFer last year.      Again, no big deal as its a marginal move but just casting these guys off like they're complete bums and that it doesn't make the team this year worse, as someone else just said seems a bit disingenuous.   Going full rebuild, playing the young guys, etc is all fine by me, but we don't have to act like these guys are bad to do so. 

And with Houser, people keep saying Gasser replaces but that misses then who replaces Gasser on the chain and so on and so on.   Again, last year and he's just ok but whoever moves up from our #8 to the #7 type role is likely worse or less reliable than him.   Guys like Houser are very useful in MLB as you can see by how much money they've been getting in these ridiculous contracts. 

[wiguy94]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

And how is that not beneficial for a retooling? 

A Burnes/Adames/Williams trade is likely creating more 40 man spots that will need to be filled. 

Yeah this trade is fine if we are headed towards a rebuild which it appears to be the case. Still not great value or process to give up 2 solid MLB players for someone a team just left unprotected in the Rule 5 draft 2 weeks ago. Sacrificing roster depth when we have little roster upside if the intention is to contend is bad process, so I hope the rebuild is incoming.

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

I've never mentioned Ryan Brady lol

Right. I confused you with Jay87 like you confused me with others IRT "contending." 

Regardless, I spend a metric eff ton of time scouting. It's a major hobby of mine and Crow is legit. Repeatable delivery with exceptional control and works his secondaries well. You gamble on the post-TJS uptick in his fastball all day here. You get that, he goes from BOR arm to MOR arm and some. I'll almost guarantee he's not a reliever. He's a starter all day regardless of the fastball sitting 91.

[beekay414]

2 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

just casting these guys off like they're complete bums

Good thing Matt Arnold didn't do that.

[beekay414]

2 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

left unprotected in the Rule 5 draft 2 weeks ago

This doesn't carry the weight you think it does. They left him unprotected because they knew he wouldn't be taken due to the TJS. Doesn't reflect anything else. 

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

This doesn't carry the weight you think it does. They left him unprotected because they knew he wouldn't be taken due to the TJS. Doesn't reflect anything else. 

Well how could they have possibly known that? Arnold literally admitted that Crow was on the Brewers Rule 5 short list. Plus if Houser and Taylor are as bad as you say they are then clearly Stearns and company don't think Crow is very good lol.

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

Well how could they have possibly known that? Arnold literally admitted that Crow was on the Brewers Rule 5 short list. Plus if Houser and Taylor are as bad as you say they are then clearly Stearns and company don't think Crow is very good lol.

I never said they were bad. I never used that word. You can feel free to re-read everything. 

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, wiguy94 said:

Yeah this trade is fine if we are headed towards a rebuild which it appears to be the case. Still not great value or process to give up 2 solid MLB players for someone a team just left unprotected in the Rule 5 draft 2 weeks ago. Sacrificing roster depth when we have little roster upside if the intention is to contend is bad process, so I hope the rebuild is incoming.

Sure, but let's not pretend like Houser and Taylor have a ton of value. I would acknowledge they likely received less than their full value here, but I would agree with BTV that it's a moderate underpay at most. Which I'm not going to lose sleep over when a) I don't have knowledge of what the Brewers are planning next and b) Taylor and Houser are 30 something replaceable parts. And even if the plan is to contend, I would argue they're better off making the upside play with Chourio, Gasser, etc. in their stead. Doesn't always work out, but it worked out for the Rangers and Reds this year, for example.

[brewmann04]

sorry we gave up a solid rotation guy from an Iffy Rotation already.They got in return a guy who can't pitch for a while.

This looks like a salary dump to most fans unless they make another move.

i be curious what Burnes and Willy gets them 

[beekay414]

35 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Scheiner and Devanney are not the same player. Devanney is a SS/3B who plays outstanding defense. Scheiner is a 3B/1B who does not. 

I'm speaking from the perspective of the more important part of playing baseball...being able to hit major league pitching.

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

I never said they were bad. I never used that word. You can feel free to re-read everything. 

You said Houser is a nothing burger who is overpaid at $5M and that Taylor can't even get a .300 OBP. You didn't use the word bad but if $5M is too expensive for Houser then you're absolutely saying he's bad.

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, wiguy94 said:

You said Houser is a nothing burger who is overpaid at $5M and that Taylor can't even get a .300 OBP. You didn't use the word bad but if $5M is too expensive for Houser then you're absolutely saying he's bad.

No, that's how you interpreted what I said, not what was actually said. Find me where I specifically stated they were bad baseball players. I'll wait.

[wiguy94]

7 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

No, that's how you interpreted what I said, not what was actually said. Find me where I specifically stated they were bad baseball players. I'll wait.

[beekay414]

3 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

What I thought...enjoy your night

[wiguy94]

Just now, beekay414 said:

What I thought...

In all seriousness though, if Houser is overpaid at $3M-$5M then what is he? You're saying he's not even worth half a WAR in salary. To me saying someone is basically replacement level is the same as saying they are bad.

[BrewerFan]

45 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

No...we didn't. Taylor wasn't going to get opportunities in this OF in 2024 and we've got an in-house Houser replacement in Gasser. We're going to get their production for less. 

YES-WE-DID. That's approximately their yearly value at a very low price. So yeah, that's the value we traded away. 

Having another young pitcher doesn't mean you have to "replace" Houser. Who is going to replace Woodruff, Burnes, and whoever else inevitably ends up traded or hurt? You're also assuming Gasser is going to just slide into MLB and pitch well despite the fact

And Taylor very easily could have gotten opportunities because...again, as I mentioned, we need OFers who can hit RHed pitching and Yelich will DH plenty. 

 

52 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Avina has a 30, maybe, if you're feeling generous, a 35 grade bat. He's going to get destroyed in the upper levels. 

Yes...players with his raw power and picturesque swing NEVER develop after LowA.

 

[homer]

31 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Yeah this trade is fine if we are headed towards a rebuild which it appears to be the case. Still not great value or process to give up 2 solid MLB players for someone a team just left unprotected in the Rule 5 draft 2 weeks ago. Sacrificing roster depth when we have little roster upside if the intention is to contend is bad process, so I hope the rebuild is incoming.

has anyone ever taken a rule 5 guy that was going to be out the whole year? or most of the year? honest question. I'm wondering if there is precedent. 

[BrewerFan]

49 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

The Brewers have been among the top spenders this offseason in terms of guaranteed money....

And we're talking about what? $6-7 million in savings. A Santana signing, which we should expect at this point, takes care of that. 

Well, that's misleading, but, it's a stupid metric either way(off-season spending). 

What did we spend on catcher last year? Many wanted to sign a guy...can't remember his name, but good catcher. Went to Chicago and we got this Contreras kid! 24, better than the 31-year-old and we got at least one SU man and quite possibly another who dealt with injury last year.

SPENDING is not the end all be all. We've seen that...every year. 

I don't love this trade at first blush(I do trust Arnold). What I really hate is kinda kicking players in the arse on the way out saying they weren't any good anyway and overpaid...almost as much as the complaining about Attanasio.