2024 MLB Miscellaneous News

[rickh150]

2 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

.765 OPS in 2022 with Brewers (career .770)…..yanked around constantly up/down AAA, up/down order, not playing for a week plus, pinch hit……mismanaged to the highest hills.  Just put the guy at the DH and hit him consistently low in order.

And then Inconceivable to let him hit monster numbers in AAA (like usual) and not be given opportunity when like a dozen plus guys do awful at DH in 2023…..and we PAID him a couple million to stick around in 2023! Makes and made no sense!  Counsell was content to hit Winker, Adames and Rowdy #2-4 for half the year too.

Adames lifetime .755 OPS (.723 this year….how bad does he need to hit to move him) hitting cleanup for Brewers….Hiura not good enough to hit anywhere in lineup at DH, mind you.  

 

[rickh150]

2 minutes ago, Brian said:

Keston Huira's first Major League hit since 2022

What a loose way to compare stats. 

Not really. Adames plays a position well at SS and his value is high because of it. However, BATTING ORDER does not take into account position played in the field. Why do we have to bat him cleanup? Because he plays a good SS? 

[Brian]

1 minute ago, rickh150 said:

Not really. Adames plays a position well at SS and his value is high because of it. However, BATTING ORDER does not take into account position played in the field. Why do we have to bat him cleanup? Because he plays a good SS? 

E-Mail Murphy and ask him. That is not what we were discussing. 

[Jopal78]

33 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Keston Hiura has a career MLB average of 0.239 and OBP of 0.319...so apparently you're referring to a different Hiura with your post above.  His 2019 remains the longest extended run of MLB at bats and consistent playing time of Keston's MLB career - so it shouldn't be discounted out of hand no matter how much you want to.  His 2019 still carried a high K rate, too.  That production was over about 40% of Hiura's MLB plate appearances, and the fact we're 5 seasons after that with only about 1 full MLB season's worth more of plate appearances for Hiura should also be taken into consideration.  946 MLB at bats sounds like alot, and it would be a decent sample size if it occurred over about 2 calendar years - not 6 - especially if you're refusing to include any of the AAA production Hiura also had during that same stretch while getting yo-yo-ed between Milwaukee and the minors from 2021-2022.  Hiura's knee injury in 2023 prevented him from getting one last shot in Milwaukee, and I'll maintain the 2020 COVID season with no minor league year really couldn't have come at a worse time for Hiura - having to slog through MLB and try to adjust to the "book" on him with no video options in the clubhouse, limited onfield work due to COVID between games, not opportunity to get sent back down to any minor league level to work on things, etc. is pretty rough shakes.

It’s all excuses at this point. He had a big half season in 2019 which to date was his high water mark. It happens all the time in Major League Baseball. (Wily Adames in 2021 for example).

The real facts are the Brewers dumped him, he went unclaimed waivers
 

Hiura spent the entire 2023 season in AAA (Meaning there was apparently no Dallas Keuchel like situation where a team was willing to bring Hiura up and Milwaukee facilitated a transaction to get him there).
 

When 2023 ended he sat home all winter before taking an NRI with Detroit as camp opened. Despite the Tigers having an obvious need for offensive firepower he didn’t make the team.

When Detroit pulled the plug on 1B Spencer Torkelson they didn’t bring up Hiura, his natural replacement,  they sent him packing, where he landed in LA on another minor league deal.

After awhile it gets sort of hard to argue it’s all bad luck, and teams misusing  him. It just might be that he’s a dime a dozen slugger who had a tremendous half- season run a half decade ago. 

[rickh150]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It’s all excuses at this point. He had a big half season in 2019 which to date was his high water mark. It happens all the time in Major League Baseball. (Wily Adames in 2021 for example).

The real facts are the Brewers dumped him, he went unclaimed waivers
 

Hiura the entire year in AAA (Meaning there was apparently no Dallas Keuchel like situation where a team was willing to bring Hiura up and Milwaukee facilitated a transaction to get him there).
 

When 2023 ended he sat home all winter before taking an NRI with Detroit. Despite the Tigers having an obvious need for offensive firepower he didn’t make the team.

When Detroit pulled the plug on 1B Spencer Torkelson they didn’t bring up Hiura, his natural replacement,  they sent him packing, where he landed in LA on another minor league deal.

After awhile it gets sort of hard to argue it’s all bad luck, and teams missing him. It just might be that he’s a dime a dozen slugger who had a tremendous half- season run a half decade ago. 

And yet he is hitting 2nd for MLB team….in minors, he usually hits #3 or #4 yearly.  I am not saying he is top hitter in the game and his struggles are notable. He is not making things easy on himself with dry spells, for sure.  However, I think he is a better hitter than half our team…easily. The new rules everywhere with a DH spot and a 26 man roster (not 25) are for him.

[KeithStone53151]

11 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It’s all excuses at this point. He had a big half season in 2019 which to date was his high water mark. It happens all the time in Major League Baseball. (Wily Adames in 2021 for example).

The real facts are the Brewers dumped him, he went unclaimed waivers
 

Hiura spent the entire 2023 season in AAA (Meaning there was apparently no Dallas Keuchel like situation where a team was willing to bring Hiura up and Milwaukee facilitated a transaction to get him there).
 

When 2023 ended he sat home all winter before taking an NRI with Detroit as camp opened. Despite the Tigers having an obvious need for offensive firepower he didn’t make the team.

When Detroit pulled the plug on 1B Spencer Torkelson they didn’t bring up Hiura, his natural replacement,  they sent him packing, where he landed in LA on another minor league deal.

After awhile it gets sort of hard to argue it’s all bad luck, and teams misusing  him. It just might be that he’s a dime a dozen slugger who had a tremendous half- season run a half decade ago. 

I think you're looking too closely at results and missing the bigger picture. Hiura and Carter are significantly different players. They both hit home runs, but literally nobody ever thought Carter could ever hit for average. Hiura was considered a pure hitter when drafted and developed power in the minors. His primary problem is a significant hole in his swing that's exploited by a very easy pitch to throw. I truly hope he can close that hole, because doing so could transform him from an unclaimed player on waivers into a star. He has all the tools to hit for a high average, whereas Carter had none of them.

[rickh150]

24 minutes ago, Brian said:

E-Mail Murphy and ask him. That is not what we were discussing. 

Literally a “miscellaneous news” thread.  
So here is miscellaneous for you…
2022 Hiura is hitting better than 2024 Adames. One doesn’t deserve a roster spot. The other has no talk of moving him down in the order….hitting .723this year, .717 last year.

 

[rickh150]

8 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

I think you're looking too closely at results and missing the bigger picture. Hiura and Carter are significantly different players. They both hit home runs, but literally nobody ever thought Carter could ever hit for average. Hiura was considered a pure hitter when drafted and developed power in the minors. His primary problem is a significant hole in his swing that's exploited by a very easy pitch to throw. I truly hope he can close that hole, because doing so could transform him from an unclaimed player on waivers into a star. He has all the tools to hit for a high average, whereas Carter had none of them.

Fair point, but there are all kinds of hitters who cannot hit certain pitches and have to live off a pitcher’s mistake.  
And yes, the tools are there.  Hiura 2022/2023 with Brewers is still a better hitter than most. And in an era when hitting #s are down, I cannot see how he is undervalued at the DH/spot start 1B position.

[Brian]

16 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Literally a “miscellaneous news” thread.  
So here is miscellaneous for you…
2022 Hiura is hitting better than 2024 Adames. One doesn’t deserve a roster spot. The other has no talk of moving him down in the order….hitting .723this year, .717 last year.

 

“Miscellaneous News”

Hiura in 2022 hit .226 Adamas Avg now is .234 plus a SS. 

Shortstop is the most valuable defensive positions in baseball. 

[Jopal78]

10 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

I think you're looking too closely at results and missing the bigger picture. Hiura and Carter are significantly different players. They both hit home runs, but literally nobody ever thought Carter could ever hit for average. Hiura was considered a pure hitter when drafted and developed power in the minors. His primary problem is a significant hole in his swing that's exploited by a very easy pitch to throw. I truly hope he can close that hole, because doing so could transform him from an unclaimed player on waivers into a star. He has all the tools to hit for a high average, whereas Carter had none of them.

I don’t think I’m missing the point at all. It’s irrelevant what scouts thought of Hiura over a half decade ago when he was in college. 

It’s also irrelevant that there was a time when he was a Top 10 draft pick and highly regarded by the writers/content generators who put prospect lists together 

It doesn’t matter much what his AAA stats are. There isn’t a Zach Wheeler or Chris Sale in AAA, and even guys like Shane Peterson will crank out an OPS of ‘900+ in AAA then do jack in the majors. 

It’s cliche but true, pro-sports are a “what have you done for me lately” industry. The answer for Hiura is not much. 

[Playing Catch]

I don't know about everyone else, but I really missed the Hiura threads.

[KeithStone53151]

11 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Fair point, but there are all kinds of hitters who cannot hit certain pitches and have to live off a pitcher’s mistake.  
And yes, the tools are there.  Hiura 2022/2023 with Brewers is still a better hitter than most. And in an era when hitting #s are down, I cannot see how he is undervalued at the DH/spot start 1B position.

Fair enough, the part I didn't like is comparing him to Carter. Carter probably never got higher than a 40 grade for hitting. Carter brute forced the ball over the fence. Hiura's power comes from elite bat speed due in part to excellent swing mechanics. Hiura has the tools to be a very good hitter for average, Odds are probably against him having actually closed that gap in his swing as he had a lot of time to figure it out, So we may never really know what his true potential is. 

[KeithStone53151]

8 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I don’t think I’m missing the point at all. It’s irrelevant what scouts thought of Hiura over a half decade ago when he was in college. 

It’s also irrelevant that there was a time when he was a Top 10 draft pick and highly regarded by the writers/content generators who put prospect lists together 

It doesn’t matter much what his AAA stats are. There isn’t a Zach Wheeler or Chris Sale in AAA, and even guys like Shane Peterson will crank out an OPS of ‘900+ in AAA then do jack in the majors. 

It’s cliche but true, pro-sports are a “what have you done for me lately” industry. The answer for Hiura is not much. 

I've said I don't disagree with your conclusion. Your analysis seems based solely on looking at box scores, that's the only way you can get to a Chris Carter comparison. Saying the hitting tools that he still possesses, that were identified by scouts years ago, are irrelevant...is laughable. 

[rickh150]

43 minutes ago, Brian said:

“Miscellaneous News”

Hiura in 2022 hit .226 Adamas Avg now is .234 plus a SS. 

Shortstop is the most valuable defensive positions in baseball. 

Again, again, again….he hits 4th because he is good at SS? Not logical.

[LouisEly]

13 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I think people don't realize how razor thin the gap is between a mlb hitter who can play for a decade at the highest level and a guy who washes out before he hits free agency. 

Yep,  It's the main reason that a replacement level pitcher will occasionally throw 7 shutout innings and a good hitter will occasionally go in a 2-26 slump and a horrible team will still win 50 games.  The talent level between players is really, really small.

[Brian]

54 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Again, again, again….he hits 4th because he is good at SS? Not logical.

Your twisting my words just like a politician. 

Who would you bat 4th if the first 3 hitters are;

1) Turang

2) Contreras

3) Yelich

4) ??? Fill in the blank. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

10 minutes ago, Brian said:

Your.......... just like a politician. 

 

There's no reason to get vulgar.😁

You're correct, as long as they stay with the same top 3 in the order then you're pretty much having to live through the ugly stretches Adames puts up unless Hoskins gets more consistent.

Even thinking about Hiura again makes my brain hurt. My short answer is he might be an acceptable hitter in the bigs, but to do so he needs to consistently lay off the FB in the upper reaches of the strike zone or above. And he's never been able to do that.

[sveumrules]

2 hours ago, rickh150 said:

.765 OPS in 2022 with Brewers

On August 22nd of 2022 Hiura's OPS was .867.

He closed out the season hitting 191/258/321 (.579 OPS) with 37 K in 93 PA.

I hope that Hiura can figure it out with the Angels, but as long as pitchers can consistently execute up in the zone I think he'll come in a lot closer to the 88 wRC+ and 38.5 K% he posted from 2020-22 than the 139 wRC+ and 30.7 K% he posted in 2019.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Hiura spent the entire 2023 season in AAA (Meaning there was apparently no Dallas Keuchel like situation where a team was willing to bring Hiura up and Milwaukee facilitated a transaction to get him there).

You're choosing to omit the fact he went down with a knee injury in mid-May while he was destroying the baseball in Nashville and then took awhile to get back into form.  Meanwhile, the Brewers primary 2023 DH was busy OPS-ing sub-0.500 that month when Hiura did get injured and many on this board were pulling hair out wondering when he'd get called up to the Brewers since he couldn't do any worse than what they had at the MLB level.

[rickh150]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

Your twisting my words just like a politician. 

Who would you bat 4th if the first 3 hitters are;

1) Turang

2) Contreras

3) Yelich

4) ??? Fill in the blank. 

If…..you are giving me a qualifier here? We are following three almost .300 hitters with a little over 700 OPS guy?  

Adames hits 6 or 7 in our current lineup. I like Chourio, Ortiz, and Hoskins all hitting higher than him with a usual lineup. Chourio and Ortiz look like they are both .800 OPS guys in their near future. Hoskins is a career 835. 
 

And Hiura hits 7 at DH with Adames moving to 8.

[Jopal78]

2 hours ago, KeithStone53151 said:

I've said I don't disagree with your conclusion. Your analysis seems based solely on looking at box scores, that's the only way you can get to a Chris Carter comparison. Saying the hitting tools that he still possesses, that were identified by scouts years ago, are irrelevant...is laughable. 

Not laughable at all. Talking about his tools that were on display at UC Irvine in 2017 When Hiura was 20 years old, is like sitting at the bar swapping Bill Brasky stories. He’s not the same guy anymore and it’s not against the same competition or circumstances. 
 

Clearly the scouts who ranked his Hit Tool were all wrong as he has not shown enough ability to make quality contact to stick in MLB. 
 

If by “hitting tools” you’re referring to some component of Hit Tool like bat speed, etc. Who cares? Having elite bat speed doesn’t necessarily mean one will make lots quality contact. MLB reported Giancarlo Stanton has the highest average bat speed this year, he’s just a .246 average and .304 OBP and .213 average and .286 OBP the last three years combined.
 

 

 

[KeithStone53151]

5 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Not laughable at all. Talking about his tools that were on display at UC Irvine in 2017 When Hiura was 20 years old, is like sitting at the bar swapping Bill Brasky stories. He’s not the same guy anymore and it’s not against the same competition or circumstances. 
 

Clearly the scouts who ranked his Hit Tool were all wrong as he has not shown enough ability to make quality contact to stick in MLB. 
 

If by “hitting tools” you’re referring to some component of Hit Tool like bat speed, etc. Who cares? Having elite bat speed doesn’t necessarily mean one will make lots quality contact. MLB reported Giancarlo Stanton has the highest average bat speed this year, he’s just a .246 average and .304 OBP and .213 average and .286 OBP the last three years combined.
 

 

 

If Hiura can close one hole in his swing, he could quite easily be a 270/280 hitter with a sub 25% k rate. It's really that simple. He has every other tool he needs to be a really good hitter, that hole negates all his other tools because it's so easily exploitable. Your analysis is basically looking at the stat line and burying your head in the sand to all other factors. I mean, actually, do you want to join a fantasy baseball league? We could make room for a guy like you. What's the maximum you're willing to play for?

[sveumrules]

9 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

If Hiura can close one hole in his swing, he could quite easily be a 270/280 hitter with a sub 25% k rate. It's really that simple.

If it were really that simple Hiura wouldn't have a .207 batting average and 38.2 K% in the 717 major league plate appearances he has taken since his rookie season.

[Jopal78]

18 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

If Hiura can close one hole in his swing, he could quite easily be a 270/280 hitter with a sub 25% k rate. It's really that simple. He has every other tool he needs to be a really good hitter, that hole negates all his other tools because it's so easily exploitable. Your analysis is basically looking at the stat line and burying your head in the sand to all other factors. I mean, actually, do you want to join a fantasy baseball league? We could make room for a guy like you. What's the maximum you're willing to play for?

Sure,  but that also means three different clubs have coached him and not been able to get the hole in his swing closed either. That tells me, more probably true than not, he isn’t ever going to do it. 

[rickh150]

24 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

If it were really that simple Hiura wouldn't have a .207 batting average and 38.2 K% in the 717 major league plate appearances he has taken since his rookie season.

Wow… nice take. Don’t include that rookie year…doesn’t count…but do take the couple following it! Real fair. I think it is fair to look at who he actually is now and major in the last couple of years with a minor on who he was, including his early numbers.  
I think Hiura can still find a spot/niche because many everyday players are worse hitters and he can hit better than many of the DH out there now, including our 22 games with Gary Sanchez at DH.

2022- 765 OPS 113 OPS+ with Brewers

2023- .311, 960 OPS 23 HRs in minors

2024- .270 882 OPS 18 HRs (half season)