The Athletic puts the Brewers in the losers category

[adambr2]

I think 2 month from now is going to be the real crossroads, because there’s not a great case currently for carrying Yeli on the playoff roster unless heats up considerably.

They did leave off Rhys Hoskins last year. But Hoskins is not Yeli, 

[Matt]

37 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I don’t think a tinfoil hat is needed to understand why Detroit did what they did. 
 

They’ve been in the ALDS the last two seasons, They had a $200M+ payroll on opening day. 
 

They have Dingler (27), McGonigle (21) Colt Keith (25), Riley Green (25), and Torkelson (26), Max Clark (21).

It’s fair to assume with that core of hitters they’re not rebuilding, they were interested in adding young pitching to pair with Valdez, Jobe, and Melton in order to compete in the immediacy. 

A ball and AA Hitters from Milwaukee (no matter how talented) simply weren’t that valuable to Detroit because of their organizational need for pitching is much greater than that of young bats given the make up of their big league roster.

Yea, if only three and four team trades were a possibility we could have got in the game. 

[nate82]

9 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

They did leave off Rhys Hoskins last year. But Hoskins is not Yeli, 

Hoskins should have been on the NLCS roster over Yelich.  Not that would have helped anything. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

59 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It’s fair to assume with that core of hitters they’re not rebuilding, they were interested in adding young pitching to pair with Valdez, Jobe, and Melton in order to compete in the immediacy. 

And the prized "young pitching" they added is literally older than anybody in their core of hitters. And coming off TJ surgery. 

[Jopal78]

3 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

And the prized "young pitching" they added is literally older than anybody in their core of hitters. And coming off TJ surgery. 

So what? If they’re offered pitchers they like internally and need or some players they don’t need and who importantly don’t fit where they’re at in the success cycle, it’s not really a hard choice is it?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 minute ago, Jopal78 said:

So what? If they’re offered pitchers they like internally and need or some players they don’t need and who importantly don’t fit where they’re at in the success cycle, it’s not really a hard choice is it?

It isn't as simple as that. Smart organizations stack value, regardless of position. 

[cragi]

Just now, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

It isn't as simple as that. Smart organizations stack value, regardless of position. 

exactly, unless they are completely inept, they would understand the value of the brewers hitters and flippped them for pitching, worse case scenario

[Jopal78]

12 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

It isn't as simple as that. Smart organizations stack value, regardless of position. 

It is as simple as that. A GM with a $200M payroll and back to back playoff experiences is retooling the roster to compete in the immediacy, not aiming for seasons down the road.

Further, on a human level, after blowing the Division last year, and failing this season, Scott Harris and Co. are almost certainly under pressure to deliver wins now, not in 2029.

 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

3 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It is as simple as that. A GM with a $200M payroll and back to back playoff experiences is retooling the roster to compete in the immediacy, not aiming for seasons down the road.

Further, on a human level, after blowing the Division last year, and failing this season, Scott Harris and Co. are almost certainly under pressure to deliver wins now, not in 2029.

 

There is nothing stopping Scott Harris from shipping off Luis Pena and the other Top 100 prospects garnered in the deal for high-end established pitching that is much more of a sure thing than a 28-year-old non-prospect coming off TJ surgery in the off-season. 

[Jopal78]

1 minute ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

There is nothing stopping Scott Harris from shipping off Luis Pena and the other Top 100 prospects garnered in the deal for high-end established pitching that is much more of a sure thing than a 28-year-old non-prospect coming off TJ surgery in the off-season. 

Okay, you’re just sour. I get it. 

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

I think 2 month from now is going to be the real crossroads, because there’s not a great case currently for carrying Yeli on the playoff roster unless heats up considerably.

They did leave off Rhys Hoskins last year. But Hoskins is not Yeli, 

Oh man, I truly believe there is a less than zero % chance that Yelich is left off the playoff roster.  

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Okay, you’re just sour. I get it. 

I don't know why you're pushing back on this. If the Tigers were dead set on getting a few near MLB-ready pitchers, the Brewers could have accommodated that by dealing with 28 other teams to find them arms. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

6 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Okay, you’re just sour. I get it. 

I think a lot of Brewers fans are, and rightfully so. Especially when we hear the national "Brewers are ruining baseball" crap from the talking heads, only to find out that, value-wise, the Brewers did, in fact, stick their neck out and put together an offer that many believe blew the Dodgers package out of the water. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

3 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I think a lot of Brewers fans are, and rightfully so. Especially when we hear the national "Brewers are ruining baseball" crap from the talking heads, only to find out that, value-wise, the Brewers did, in fact, stick their neck out and put together an offer that many believe blew the Dodgers package out of the water. 

Yeah - I'm hoping more information continues coming out from this, as I'm also certain there were far more teams than just the Dodgers and Brewers in the running for Skubal to at least make offers.  I know GMs always shy away from specifics, but there's no way the Skubal trade sweepstakes was as cut and dry and the Tigers picking the Dodgers' offer because it was the best value for the Tigers to accept.

There always was the assumption that Skubal would get dealt to LA - the shock is the rest of baseball looking at the return the Tigers got.  A rental is a rental, but there weren't enough other premier pitchers/hitters on the trade block this year for the Tigers to not at least force the Dodgers to pony up more valuable pieces in their system to match what other teams likely offered.  

Talking heads just parroting that the Brewers were "cheap" or "didn't want to buy" hard enough ticks me off.  Based on how aggressive the Cubs were, you don't think they would've traded everyone they wound up sending away for just Skubal?  We're ticked at the value sent to the Cardinals for May and Romero rentals after losing out on Skubal, showing that Arnold was willing to pony up more than perceived value from the farm system, too.

 

[Outlander]

10 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Oh man, I truly believe there is a less than zero % chance that Yelich is left off the playoff roster.  

I agree, there are usually more position players come playoff time than pitchers so not much of a chance. Plus the playing time of Yelich has not been reduced much unlike Hoskins last year stuck in the minors for a full rehab stint and firmly on the bench when brough up mid September. Yelich also has a significant contract the next two years that they have to deal with.

[Fear The Chorizo]

13 minutes ago, Matt said:

I don't know why you're pushing back on this. If the Tigers were dead set on getting a few near MLB-ready pitchers, the Brewers could have accommodated that by dealing with 28 other teams to find them arms. 

That's not how the trade deadline works in baseball - this isn't the NBA.  With 3 wild cards and 3 division titles in each league, almost half MLB makes the postseason - there's a muddle of 10-12 teams with light chances to sneak into a wildcard and potentially make a postseason run, but they also aren't going to give up MLB or prospect pieces for other prospects in some multi-team trade during the season.  Then the true sellers often don't have much of anything great to offer besides bounceback veteran relievers or a bench/utility bat that wouldn't instantly deserve to fit into the middle of a contender's existing lineup.

There's a growing list of MLB teams that aren't buyers or sellers at the trade deadline - and I think the CBA uncertainty after this season reinforced that this time around, too.

[nate82]

5 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

as I'm also certain there were far more teams than just the Dodgers and Brewers in the running for Skubal to at least make offers.

Per the rumors it was the Dodgers, Rays and Brewers who submitted offers.  The Rays offer I haven’t seen anything.  One of my contacts also said the Braves had an offer out but no names that they can release.

[Jopal78]

38 minutes ago, Matt said:

I don't know why you're pushing back on this. If the Tigers were dead set on getting a few near MLB-ready pitchers, the Brewers could have accommodated that by dealing with 28 other teams to find them arms. 

Yeah, in theory anything is possible . In reality prospect for prospect trades almost never happen, and certainly not with the complication  of involving a third-party.

 

[Matt]

21 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

That's not how the trade deadline works in baseball - this isn't the NBA.  With 3 wild cards and 3 division titles in each league, almost half MLB makes the postseason - there's a muddle of 10-12 teams with light chances to sneak into a wildcard and potentially make a postseason run, but they also aren't going to give up MLB or prospect pieces for other prospects in some multi-team trade during the season.  Then the true sellers often don't have much of anything great to offer besides bounceback veteran relievers or a bench/utility bat that wouldn't instantly deserve to fit into the middle of a contender's existing lineup.

There's a growing list of MLB teams that aren't buyers or sellers at the trade deadline - and I think the CBA uncertainty after this season reinforced that this time around, too.

To believe that means believing if the Brewers called around with a package including some of Pena, Adamczewski, Frias, Ragsdale, Gasser, Jett, Fischer, Payne, Hardin, etc. that there was literally no one interested in surrendering the equivalent of Hope, an A+ arm a year from the Rule 5, and a 28 year old "prospect" SP.

The fact that the deal was completed days before the deadline just gives extra credence to the idea that if the Tigers were interested in dealing with another team they could have done so. 

[Jopal78]

46 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I think a lot of Brewers fans are, and rightfully so. Especially when we hear the national "Brewers are ruining baseball" crap from the talking heads, only to find out that, value-wise, the Brewers did, in fact, stick their neck out and put together an offer that many believe blew the Dodgers package out of the water. 

I guess that’s the problem with buying into the hype, prospect lists, trade value websites etc. 

No doubt the Brewers have some players with real premium talent, but organizational needs  where teams are in their respective success cycle, pressure on the front office are all real things and factor into decision making more than these 3 players are more valuable than those 3 players. 

[SeaBass]

My conspiracy theory is that there is no conspiracy theory and the Tigers simply preferred the Dodgers offer. The mental gymnastics involved to the contrary are... sure interesting though.

[rickh150]

Tigers did this sooo early. Just looks odd, especially with a rather light package coming back. The Brewers can’t control what the Tigers do, even with a prospect package that was better.

[CheeseheadInQC]

20 minutes ago, Matt said:

To believe that means believing if the Brewers called around with a package including some of Pena, Adamczewski, Frias, Ragsdale, Gasser, Jett, Fischer, Payne, Hardin, etc. that there was literally no one interested in surrendering the equivalent of Hope, an A+ arm a year from the Rule 5, and a 28 year old "prospect" SP.

The fact that the deal was completed days before the deadline just gives extra credence to the idea that if the Tigers were interested in dealing with another team they could have done so. 

You keep trying to denigrate Ryan without giving thought that the Tigers might just be that high on him where the number of pitcher comps they would prefer is small and mostly either guys like Henderson who are valuable already on contenders, guys contenders were using in other trades or prospects on teams with significant pitching needs themselves. You could argue that maybe more options open up in the offseason, but there is no guarantee.

[SeaBass]

18 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Tigers did this sooo early. Just looks odd, especially with a rather light package coming back. The Brewers can’t control what the Tigers do, even with a prospect package that was better.

I thought I had read this here but maybe it was some other site but I had read that there was a desire to get Skubal traded without waiting until the last second so that he could take a physical with his new team in case something came up during that that would cause a team to fail him. Then teams would still have time to renegotiate terms or pivot to a different trade.

Maybe it was a factor and maybe it wasn't but there are reasons not to wait until the very end of the deadline.