After Missing Out on Tarik Skubal, Brewers Still Got What They Needed Most at Trade Deadline

[BrewerFan]

8 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

None of Wagoner, Wichrowski, or Kuehner are flamethrowers. Wagoner is closest but even he in AAA is averaging more like 96-97 with his FB with average shape. Cruz and Grable both have 70 grade fastballs according to Fangraphs and both profile as high leverage relievers.

Sure. I mean, then the Yankees didn't trade any "flamethrowers." 
If Wagoner throwing 101 shortly after coming back from that TJ and then the complications isn't a flamethrower... I don't know what is. 

Wichrowski was touching 100 and Kuhener as a lefty throws 97-99 when healthy.

But... I'm not going to this pedantic thing again. The Yankees traded four low upside middling pitchers. 

If it's your argument they couldn't have matched that... fine. 
If it's your argument Wagoner isn't a flamethrower... sure. 

 

 

[wiguy94]

4 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Sure. I mean, then the Yankees didn't trade any "flamethrowers." 
If Wagoner throwing 101 shortly after coming back from that TJ and then the complications isn't a flamethrower... I don't know what is. 

Wichrowski was touching 100 and Kuhener as a lefty throws 97-99 when healthy.

But... I'm not going to this pedantic thing again. The Yankees traded four low upside middling pitchers. 

If it's your argument they couldn't have matched that... fine. 
If it's your argument Wagoner isn't a flamethrower... sure. 

Wichrowski hasn’t touched that velo in years and Kuehner has never sat 97-99 (no idea where you got that from). Yes Wagoner has touched triple digits and that’s why I said he’s the closest we have to a flamethrower but he’s sitting 96-97 in AAA. 

Cruz has sat 98-100 this entire season. Grable sits a bit below that but has outlier FB shape. I get we all love our prospects but Wagoner isn’t either of those guys.  

[BrewerFan]

17 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Wichrowski hasn’t touched that velo in years and Kuehner has never sat 97-99 (no idea where you got that from). Yes Wagoner has touched triple digits and that’s why I said he’s the closest we have to a flamethrower but he’s sitting 96-97 in AAA. 

Cruz has sat 98-100 this entire season. Grable sits a bit below that but has outlier FB shape. I get we all love our prospects but Wagoner isn’t either of those guys.  

"Years." This pre-season... but sure years. That's what he throws out of the pen, not as a starter and he was doing that THIS pre-season. So no, not "years." He's also a starter so if you DO want an apples to apples, his velo is exactly in line with the starters the Yankees traded.
Didn't say Kuehner "sat" 97-99, but that he can throw 97-99 out of the pen.

And Wagoner ok. He's "close" to one, but not one. 

Also, the Nats said they wanted POWER ARMS. Wagoner, 

Jake Bird throws 94-96
Cebert is 92-95
Grable is 93-96

THOSE are "flamethrowers?" There's ONE power arm in that group... is Cruz and he's on his 4th organization in 4 years(while being healthy) and Wagoner has been much better as a power arm in AAA this year than Cruz.

 I get we all love front office and arguing we couldn't match this trade, but we... we sooo easily could have... if we wanted to.

 

[BCF]

Velocity doesn’t matter much 

Henderson sits 91-93 and he’s been super effective as a starter in his career 

[SeaBass]

9 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

There isn't one. Dallas and teams like the Giants, 49ers... I mean, we all know which cities, but they'd dominate the game and the NFL would probably be worse.

Just think if a team could sign every player they wanted. The Rams... who certainly look scary enough, they'd probably be spending 300-400M more than the Brewers(if not more) and guys like Myles Garrett, they wouldn't sign extensions or restructure so often because if they hit FA without the danger of the franchise tag. 

I'm just thinking, but a OL with Tristan Wirfs and then Trent Williams, Creed Humphrey and I don't care enough to keep going and listing two OGs, but basically the 90s Cowboys. 

I'm not really arguing that, my point (in this specific post, my overall point is below) was that the new salary cap back in the 90s didn't help or deter the Packers ability to win a Super Bowl after the '96 season. Their team was already headed that direction before the cap was implemented in 1994. They traded for Favre in '92, signed Reggie in '93 (pre-cap) to a record setting deal and even after the cap was implemented they still signed major free agents to get them there. The Packers had the means to compete regardless of the cap at that time because they had a great GM working on it.

The cap wasn't restricting them back then. Reggie coming to Green Bay had a massive impact on other players wanting to come to Green Bay whereas before that the Green Bay PR was 180 degrees opposite, nobody wanted to come here.

My OVERALL point was that people seem to think that MLB implementing a salary cap will help the Brewers get to a bunch of World Series when in reality it's still pretty rare for teams in other salary capped leagues to have multiple shots at championships in short periods of time. The NBA might be an exception but it seems contained to a handful of franchises. The Packers have won one Super Bowl in the last (near) 30 years and the other one that falls into that timeframe was the '96 team.

The Vikings and Lions are still waiting for their first SB championship. There are ELEVEN teams in the NFL that have never won a Super Bowl and 4 among those have never been to a Super Bowl. Yay salary cap!

[LouisEly]

18 hours ago, TURBO said:

Truth, and the Dodgers are not the 2025 Dodgers team either, they added Skubal, and we counter with May.

We are not playing the same game as the Dodgers.

The Dodgers are not the 2025 Dodgers.  For all of the consternation about Yelich, Betts is having an even worse season and they keep hitting him in the middle of the lineup.  Hernandez has a .739 OPS and Tucker has a .732 OPS.  There's three positions where the Brewers have an offensive advantage (Pratt, Chourio, Bauers/Lara).

Bauers/Vaughn are right there with Freeman.  Turang is right there with Edman.  Mitchell is right there with Pages.  Contreras is right there with Will Smith.  The Dodgers have an advantage at two positions (3B, DH), the Brewers have an advantage at three positions (SS, LF, RF).  If you want to count Ortiz as the SS, then he's a wash with Betts this year, but then you have to factor in Alex Freeland (.622 OPS) at 2B and that's advantage Turang.  That's just offense; defense is a different story that I'm not going to get into.

Great pitching is going to shut down any lineup, not just the Brewers.  So, the Brewers need great pitching to shut down the other team's lineup and keep it a close game.  The Royals won a World Series by getting a lead through the 5th inning, and then throwing four shut-down relievers.  They didn't win it by scoring 7 runs a game.

[Trax]

19 hours ago, TURBO said:

Instead, we burnt what, #11 AND #13?

Just feaking crazy...

I liked both of those prospects, saw Rags play in Appleton on a day he went 2-3 with a homer and a great defensive play.  We had offered Pena and 2 other prospects for Skubal, that would have upset me far worse.

I think we at least have a chance to sign May after the year is over which would not have been the case with Skubal.  May and Romero definitely help this team and make us stronger for post season.  No doubt.

I don't like it, but I understand it.  Glad we did not throw away top 10 guys.  Not just Made, but Pena and Fischer were off limits in my book.

[Trax]

I've given up on Yelich.  He should be strictly platooned and batting 7 or 8.  

What we need is Contreras and Chourio to get and stay hot.  We need Bauers and Turang and Mitchell and Vaughn to hit like they have been and more.  Vaughn just needs more at bats.  Hopefully Frelick comes back healthy and can help.

All the focus can't just be on the Dodgers.   We have to get to them and then play lights out ball.