Suppan - Could it be possible?

[MoneyballMan]

Complete speculation on my part, but I'd be interested in other opinions. Assuming Suppan finishes the season strong, do you try to move him in the offseason? In no particular order (after Sheets), we have reasonable SP depth:

 

Sheets

Gallardo

Villanueva

Capuano

Bush

Vargas

Parra

Jackson

 

Is this the way to find another high-level prospect (or two) and a bullpen arm and take his salary off the books in order to extend Sheets (or lock up a couple of young gun long-term prior to arbitration years)? Or find that "perfect" replacement for Menchkins? A month ago, I'm not sure anyone thought he'd bring enough value in return. But with a strong finish....? What say everyone?

[kgbaseball]

No. Suppan has been pretty damn good (when it's really counted) the past month and a half. He's doing what they asked of him. He's probably pretty immovable anyways, given his contract, but I suppose anything is possible.

[trwi7]

Three words.

 

No trade clause

[MoneyballMan]

Three words.

 

No trade clause

But would he agree to it if it meant going somewhere like NY, Boston, etc? Again, I'm not advocating, but just wondering if they may consider it. New York could be in the market for SP and the contract wouldn't be a problem for them.

[dadofandrew]

Even w/o the clause, the Crew's long-term contracts would be meaningless if he is dealt before it is halfway up. 2009 at the earliest.

[DHonks]

I'd much rather deal Cappy and Vargas. Cappy may have peaked, while Vargas likely will never be more than a 5th starter. Suppan rarely gets hit hard. He has had some bad outings, but few terrible

[billyhallfan]

suppan isn't going anywhere, DM didn't sign him to 4 years to trade him after 1.

 

the brewers need suppan

[bucksman4]

Ask Walt Jocketty if he'd have liked to have Suppan on his team this year.

[MoneyballMan]

Ask Walt Jocketty if he'd have liked to have Suppan on his team this year.

Best argument I've seen.

[princeginterhallhelms04]

I would say he is the least likely of the brewer's pitchers to find him self on the trading block. I would love to see him stay in milwaukee and do what he is doing now. Even if he is only good down the stretch we could do worse. I like what he brings to the team and in the club house.

[paul253]

The one thing I like about him is that he'll be out there every five days. He doesn't seem to be out 6 weeks with ear infections and sprained fingers (sorry Ben). With a lot of young starters in the mix too, it'd be nice to have another veteran. Vargas is worthless and Bush is the epitomy of inconsistent, which leaves Parra (injury prone), Sheets (injury prone) Gallardo, Villanueva and Capuano. I'm sorry, but Zach Jackson, in my opinion, is no longer a prospect.

[MoneyballMan]

I appreciate the opinions. I lean toward those who say keep in and keep the depth. I was interested in whether or not people thought they'd try to move him or not.

[Oldcity]

Suppan hasn't underperformed at all this season, really. He hasn't really even pitched worse this season than in his recent past; the Brewers' atrocious defense just hurt his ERA.

[Tbadder]

I'm not adding anything new here, but he's the one verifiable innings eater on the Brew Crew. I think it's incumbent on management to find another of these guys for next year. Bush could fill that role if he was ever consistent enough.

[endaround]

The difference between Suppan and Bush is very very slight. Suppan's FIP this season is 4.39, Bush's is 4.48. We're talking less than 1/10 of a run. Suppan's FIP is 4.84 while Bush's is 4.40. Suppan is having a good year for him, no doubt, but its not that much different from Bush except for IP (which does favor Suppan a good deal). The point is consistency has little to do with it. Bush pitched 210 innings last year after all.

[Gopher74]

The one thing I like about him is that he'll be out there every five days. He doesn't seem to be out 6 weeks with ear infections and sprained fingers (sorry Ben). With a lot of young starters in the mix too, it'd be nice to have another veteran. Vargas is worthless and Bush is the epitomy of inconsistent, which leaves Parra (injury prone), Sheets (injury prone) Gallardo, Villanueva and Capuano. I'm sorry, but Zach Jackson, in my opinion, is no longer a prospect.

Sprained fingers? Yea, I guess if you consider a torn tendon a "sprained finger", then sure. And if you call a very rare virus a "ear infection", then sure, that's what he had to.

 

I'm sorry, but this post as a whole is ridiculous. Parra's injury prone because he got his thumb smashed with a fastball on a bunt attempt(yea, I know they shut him down in the minors), and Vargas is worthless? Wow....

[Gopher74]

Suppan hasn't underperformed at all this season, really. He hasn't really even pitched worse this season than in his recent past; the Brewers' atrocious defense just hurt his ERA.

Not true at all.

 

First of all, the Cards FP last year was .984 and ours this year was .982. Not a huge difference.

Second, his GB/FB ratio was quite a bit worse this year.

Third, his BAA and OBP was up this year.

 

And finally, errors don't hurt an ERA(obviously)and the Brewers IF has a LOT of range. So while they clearly make errors, when they don't make errors, they actually help out a pitcher quite a bit(if that makes sense...it should).

 

His average ERA from 04-06 was 3.95. Do not blame that on the Brewers defense.

[Oldcity]

Range Factor/9 innings:

 

Braun: 2.11 (Dead last in MLB... by a ton)

Hardy: 4.00 (Dead last in MLB)

Weeks: 4.74 (19th out of 24 who qualified)

Fielder: 8.49 (Dead last in MLB)

 

In actuality, the Brewers infield defense has terribly poor range.

[Gopher74]

Range Factor/9 innings:

 

Braun: 2.11 (Dead last in MLB... by a ton)

Hardy: 4.00 (Dead last in MLB)

Weeks: 4.74 (19th out of 24 who qualified)

Fielder: 8.49 (Dead last in MLB)

 

In actuality, the Brewers infield defense has terribly poor range.

And again, eliminate the errors. When you take out the errors, which kills range factor, the Brewers defense actually has good range.

 

Prince being the lone exception. But do you really think it's any wonder why Braun's dead last? He had a historically bad defensive season in terms of fielding pct.

 

I put only no stock into range factor as I can say with a degree of certainty that Tori Hunter is not only the best defensive CF'er today, but IMO, the greatest of all-time(well...I've gotta admit, I've only seen about 15 years of baseball...I'm going with Peter Gammons on this one), and his zone rating is little more than average. And Andrew Jones, a player who many believe is on the decline had his higher range rating in the past 4 years.

 

It's absolutely impossible to use a defensive rating and apply it equally to everyone since there are just so many different variables. However, when you eliminate the errors, you're telling me that you think that Ryan Braun is capable of GETTING TO fewer balls than any 3rd basemen in the game? Hell, tell me with a straight face that he gets to fewer than Miquel Cabrera? You cant' do it.

 

Again, nobody's saying this defense helped Suppan out in terms of wins, but it absolutely was not the cause of his higher ERA. He's a pitcher who's always going to have a high whip and not strike people out. He has to combat that by getting ground balls. The simple fact is that he left the ball up far more this year than seasons past leading to a higher BAA and a lower GB/FB ratio.

[sbrylski]

Range factor kind of sucks though. We were third worst in the MLB in GB, and RF is very dependant on how many opportunities you get per inning in the field. Actually, that's basically what it is, so it pretty much sucks.

[endaround]

Suppan's FIP this was 4.33, teh best of his career. He's unlikely to match it again, so yes his ERA is looking to rise unless the Brewers improve teh defense. And the Brewers infield defense is atrocious, especially Braun.

[Gopher74]

Suppan's FIP this was 4.33, teh best of his career. He's unlikely to match it again, so yes his ERA is looking to rise unless the Brewers improve teh defense. And the Brewers infield defense is atrocious, especially Braun.

If you place any value on FIP...which to be honest, I do not. Not for a GB pitcher.

 

I think this is an interesting article. Look at how many ground ball pitchers appear in their "higher FIP" range.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/fip-and-the-long-ball/

[Oldcity]

Well then here's zone rating to consider:

 

Braun: .697 (again, by far the worst among MLB third basemen- and yes, worse than Miggy Cabrera)

Hardy: .797 (20th out of 24 shortstops who qualified)

Weeks: .737 (Dead last among MLB second basemen)

Fielder: .813 (17th among 21 first basemen who qualified)

 

Edit: I know zone rating and range factor each have their fair share of flaws, but when you're entire infield ranks at the bottom in both it's never a good sign.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm confused about your referencing of that link, Gopher. It's an article about HRs & FIP, not FIP related to ground-ball pitchers. A quick stat search at THT shows what I would have guessed - that guys with high GB% have both high-ish and low-ish FIPs. In fact, descending the FIPs of qualified (as in, IP) pitchers shows that those who have the higher FIPs tend to have the lower GB%. I'm honestly confused as to what your point was in that post, not trying to 'call you out.'

[WestCoastBrewer]

I have read so many negative posts about this team, especially about our defense. We lost more games for reasons other than defense. It's a team game, not one player or play cost this team a chance to make playoffs, we are young and will only get better. We clearly need to improve in many areas, but defense is not the main concern just one part of the solution including consistent pitching and hitting for next year.

 

Let's be realistic, this was a very good year and we hope this team builds from this year and contends for many years to come!