Seattle looking for pitching

[aracko]

Guys - we gotta remember about the Mitchell Report - just because players are not included in it does not mean they didnt obtain or use PEDs. There are many outlets to gaining PEDs. The Mitchell Report only touched on a few.

[yoyomayoma]

http://mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/

They say that if they miss out on a few of the FA pitchers that they might talk about a Cappy for Ibanez deal. He's old but put up solid numbers in a pitchers park last year. Anyone willing to make this move?

[erbacaine04]

http://mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/

 

They say that if they miss out on a few of the FA pitchers that they might talk about a Cappy for Ibanez deal. He's old but put up solid numbers in a pitchers park last year. Anyone willing to make this move?

 

Yeah actually I think he could be had for Bush.... alot of rumors I saw was that the M's would trade Ibanez to the Cubs for Prior straight up.... and thats even with them knowing that prior would not be ready until at least the end of May...

I think the only guy from that team other than their top prospects is Ibanez...good lefty bat decent OBP... he is not a good fielder but he could man Left, hell if Lee was able to man left then Ibanez can.

[Brian the Automator]

http://mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/

 

They say that if they miss out on a few of the FA pitchers that they might talk about a Cappy for Ibanez deal. He's old but put up solid numbers in a pitchers park last year. Anyone willing to make this move?

Absolutely... A perennial .800 OPS player (.901 OPS away from SafeCo last year) who's contract is reasonable and has been reasonably healthy? Sign me up.

 

[brosto1]

Ibanez for one of Vargas, Bush, or Cappy was a deal that I made in the "Play DM the GM" thread, so yes for Ibanez. One year left, gets on base, can hit the ball, plays left field and swings from the left side. It really makes too much sense for both teams to do this deal. The only way I would not do the deal is if Beltre could be had instead, as I feel it is an even more pressing need getting Braun off third base. I would favor adding salary and the riskier bat of Beltre more than Ibanez, just to get Braun to the OF.

[Big Reed]

I like Reed. a good name. he had some props a couple of years ago as being a nice defender and good lead-off bat. he kind of became a forgotten man for Seattle. I can't believe Seattle would want much in return for him. is Reed better than Gwynn? I's say it's about a wash.

[TooLiveBrew]

Reed looks like a better young player than Gwynn. At least Reed has been able to carry a nice OBP through the minors (and MLB, for his small-ish sample).

 

As far as Ibanez, at this point, my first choice is to land a 3B instead of keeping Braun there. I'd really prefer trying Felipe Lopez at 3B before any LF, just because I worry that much about Braun's defense. As far as LFers go, Ibanez looks like the best option there, given recent events.

 

I'd still prefer Rolen/Beltre/Lopez.

[brewmann04]

that deal would make a lot of sense for both clubs but i have a feeling Melvin is waiting on the Cards calling and offering Rolen a second time.

[MNBrew]

Lopez is a SS, not a 3B. In principle I'm not in favor of signing creating one position change (Lopez from SS to 3B in this case) to facilitate another (Braun to LF). Lopez couldn't keep his starting job in Cincinnati and Washington didn't try hard to retain him. In spite of his talent level & potential, I'm also far more in favor of investing in a guy with a track record. We're trying to contend now. No more trying to throw scraps at the wall to see what sticks.

 

Rolen or Beltre for 3B makes sense. Otherwise take all the Joe Dillon love and play him at 3B -- it's a normal position for him. Lopez by and large is a career SS.

 

I like the Ibanez idea quite a lot and figure if it takes Capuano to get him, I'd still do it. Moving Vargas is better than moving Cappy or Bush, but for the same reasons seems much less likely to happen.

[splitterpfj]

I'd get Ibanez, if the M's are up for that deal. If he hit his career averages, that's a .285 average, with an OPS of .816, and he swings from the left side. He's reached an age where he could fall off, but that's a risk I would take.

[TooLiveBrew]

Plus, splitter, you're not factoring in (not that you're ignoring or unawares) that his career-average OPS includes seasons in pitcher-friendly Safeco. Add him to Miller Park, and you can pretty much bank on getting an OPS north of .800. Plus, his other benefit is that he wouldn't require a platoon.

 

While I'm less worried than you, MNBrew, about Lopez being able to handle 3B, checking into him further just now brought up a huge red flag. I'm not familiar enough with his injury history, but his ISO has plummeted - and in the midst of what's supposed to be his prime. I know part of it can be attributed to playing at RFK, but that doesn't account for this shift:

 

2004: .163 (age 24)

2005: .195

2006: .107

2007: .106

 

Marcels had him around an .800 OPS for 2007, but at least for the short-term, he reinforced the drastic decline in power. Bill James has him forecasted at a .131 ISO for 2008, which is even a bit generous considering that he basically repeated his crappy 2006 number last year.

[Never Outhustled]

I have no interest in Ibanez. Grillon can give the Brewers the same production for a fraction of the cost. Come July, lots of teams will need a starting pitcher, and we'll be happy we didn't trade 1 for Ibanez. Capuano has always been a fast starter, I'd like to take full advantage of that.

[TooLiveBrew]

I have no interest in Ibanez. Grillon can give the Brewers the same production for a fraction of the cost.

 

Maybe, but then we don't have a good bench. I want a good bench, and we can find a fix for 3B or LF. I wholeheartedly disagree that Dillon & Gross would equal the production flat-out (though it'd be close), and when you factor in that Ibanez in LF + Gross & Dillon on bench >>>>> Gross & Dillon in LF + __?__ & __?__ on the bench.

[derflotr]

I have no interest in Ibanez. Grillon can give the Brewers the same production for a fraction of the cost.

 

Maybe, but then we don't have a good bench. I want a good bench, and we can find a fix for 3B or LF. I wholeheartedly disagree that Dillon & Gross would equal the production flat-out (though it'd be close), and when you factor in that Ibanez in LF + Gross & Dillon on bench >>>>> Gross & Dillon in LF + __?__ & __?__ on the bench.

Exactly.

It'd be wonderful to have Dillon/Gross coming off the bench, with a solid everyday presence in LF. I think Ibanez would fit the bill just fine.

Nothing wrong with ~ .280/.350/.480 from the left side.

 

Of course it all depends on the return, but if Ibanez is available it's worth looking into.

[erbacaine04]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/raul_ibanez/index.html

 

Here is a link of all rumors based on Ibanez.... most of them are pretty cheap I think

they have:

Sean marshall for him

Mark Prior for him

Cliff Lee for him

John Laffey for him

 

all pretty average pitchers.... so I think even Dave Bush could work... or Dave Bush and Tony Gwynn Jr...since with Ibanez he would not have a Bench spot on the team

or just Cappuano straight up for him.... Maybe try vargas and Gwynn....I would not mind keeping Cappy at least for the first half of the season to see if he can get his head on straight. Also Ibanez is only 5.5 Million for 2008 season and only has a year on his contract left so he wont be blocking anyone either.. which is good for the Laporta in LF for 2009 Campaign

 

Only thing is Mariners have to lose out Bedard....which means the reds would probably have to win his services unless another team swoops in at the last second not named the Cubs..lol

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

Ibanez is probably a little bit better hitter than Beltre, but Beltre makes a much better target, assuming Melvin still wants to fix the defense.
Using 2008 fielding runs projections from the same guy who does the CHONE hitter/pitcher projections, Ibanez is -9 in LF (if anything, that seems optimistic to me given that he was -16 last year and -18 the year before) and Beltre is +8 at 3B. Add to that 17 run difference how ever many runs you think we would save by having Braun in the OF and you're looking at (at least) a 3 win difference, maybe 4.

Ibanez is a slightly better hitter than Beltre, but he's not 40 runs better. It sounds like Seattle is a bit more willing to deal Ibanez though, so that's certainly a factor.

[jlau20]

Can Sexson play third?

[twobrewers]

Sounds like the Mariners are about to add Silva..

 

4 years/44 million

 

Link

[TooLiveBrew]

Wow, they just locked themselves into $11 mil. AAV for production that's likely going to be worse than either Cappy or Bush in 2008. And the M's can seriously contend for the AL West again in 2008. Puzzling, but that's why Bavasi is the legend!

[erbacaine04]

Wow, they just locked themselves into $11 mil. AAV for production that's likely going to be worse than either Cappy or Bush in 2008. And the M's can seriously contend for the AL West again in 2008. Puzzling, but that's why Bavasi is the legend!

 

See its contracts like those that make me smile Right now when we are looking to unload some decent pitching in Bush and Cappy..and Average pitching in Vargas....

but its contracts like those that will make me cry after Sheets has a healthy season and will be offered Barry Zito Money..after the 2008 season

[Never Outhustled]

you factor in that Ibanez in LF + Gross & Dillon on bench >>>>> Gross & Dillon in LF + __?__ & __?__ on the bench.

I don't think MLB rules would allow Gross and Dillon to play LF simaltainiously, so 1 of them would always be available on the bench, leaving just 1 bench spot open.

 

For that open bench spot, I'd love to add the versatile Ryan Doumit. Vargas and Rivera for Doumit?

[TooLiveBrew]

I meant in a platoon role, sorry.

[Oldcity]

Bill Bavasi to the rescue again. That poor franchise.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Teams would rather overspend for guys as opposed to trading, it seems dumb to me, paying $11 million for Silva is just%@@+%*+!$ when you have cheaper trade options, but teams say its just money as opposed to trading away Morrow or Jones etc...

[StearnsFTW]

FWIW, MLBTR is reporting that the Mariners are shopping Beltre for pitching.

 

I would love to see a Capuano/Gamel for Beltre deal, or better yet, just Capuano (although I don't see that getting it done).

 

Beltre is overpaid, but the net effect between his and Capuano's salary is quite palatable IMO.

 

His defense would be a huge upgrade, and I could see him hitting 25+ outside of SafeCo. I wish he was lefthanded or more capable of hitting in the 2 spot, but I'd much rather have a 28 year old, healthy Beltre than a somewhat broken down Rolen.