thebruce44

I understand this deviates 1-from real law and 2-from MLB/MLBPA agreements, but I could also see the Federal Government getting involved at some point. Or rather, it seems as though they are already involved since they were used as leverage to get Bosch to talk. MLB and the Feds are way too connected, though maybe they will support a lack of due process.

Ok, your version of logic is different than mine. I also choose to put the burden of proof on the accuser and believe people are innocent until proven guilty. Agree to disagree.

Was the employee forewarned of the consequences of his or her actions? Was the investigation conducted fairly and objectively? Did the employer obtain substantial evidence of the employee's guilt? Were the rules applied fairly and without discrimination? I'd say all of these could be argued by the Players Association, especially towards Braun. The signed agreements specify punishment, so no, employees were not properly warned they would be treated differently than from their contracts. The investigation was not conducted fairly and objectively. Can't be hard to prove that. We don't know what evidence MLB has, but if it is what we have seen so far (notebook pages from a compromised witness) they don't have substantial evidence. The rules were applied with strong discrimination towards ARod and Braun.

actual evidence doesnt get leaked to OTL, if it did, do you think they'd be able to write 500 articles about this? The initial evidence was actually acquired by ESPN/OTL IIRC. And its my understanding that with that evidence, the initial reporters from the Miami New Times didn't include Braun's name as they didn't feel there was enough evidence. Things like "sources" and "truth" matter much less to ESPN, so Braun's name has been on all their headlines.

Joe, they're all connected to the Biogenesis clinic. They were all given or sold substances that are on the list that MLB and the MLBPA has determined as banned. At least that's what is being reported to us. Everything is supposed to be confidential, so we're only getting bits of information--of suspect quality. When MLB announces the suspensions, we'll know more. Until then, we'll get teased along by TJ Quinn and the like. I'm still not hearing what these players did wrong and how MLB is able to prove it.

I have no idea what your post is getting at. junngmann, pena, nelson... all havent even played in the majors yet, let alone playoffs, so projecting the infield defense to play behind pitchers who are still in AA right now is sort of insane. Oh, I had no idea you were agreeing with me.

fixed. but seriously, come on... I have no idea what your post is getting at.

Lets focus on revamping our roster with good players before we start catering to pitchers who may never be a part of a playoff rotation.

Religious discussion has no place here. Thanks. Jose, I think you will find that the discussion here centers more on what we know vs what we don't know more than what we feel.

I read this three times and.............sorry, but.......what? At least he capitalizes the start of a new sentence.

Maybe he will give away a bunch of talent to us, then come over in the off-season. Kidding, but I could see a scenario there where the next GM gets a lot of praise for Jack Z's hard work.

No its not. Its been said many times here and by others in the media. Sure. Baseball's in the business of scouting, developing and promoting star players, so that later, they can make up lies about those players and suspend them without real justification, because that's the best way to sell the game to fans.. Really? Nobody ever said MLB was operating in their best interest here.

No its not. Its been said many times here and by others in the media.

One question that has arisen is that if MLB is really trying to go after Braun or Rodriguez for two offenses, why is it 100 games instead of 150 games that is being discussed? After all, first offense = 50, second offense = 100, and we can certainly do the math. The answer, according to my source, is that the league likely views the 100 games as some sort of happy medium or, perhaps leniency of some kind with the acknowledgment that we’re in uncharted waters here In other words, MLB is just making stuff up. Whats the point of even having an agreement?

HiAndTight likes to go "against the grain" of the board even if he is agreeing with everyone.

How classy is it to reach a conclusion about something without any evidence? Nobody here knows who is leaking info to ESPN and others. So why are you ripping MLB? There is tons of evidence that MLB is trying to win a PR battle, like obtaining evidence though means that wont be valid in court and targeting certain players over others.

That would have required Braun's legal team to make the horrendous error of informing the third-party about all the details of the suspension, why would they have done that? If you are doing research on PEDs you don't say "Hey, I'm representing Ryan J. Braun who just got suspended for 50-games for a PED test, can I ask you some questions?" Well, many law firms have several employees. I'm sure there are members of the administrative staff that do "grunt" work on cases. Perhaps some clerk from the law firm is at a bar, has a few too many, and starts talking to his friends..."You wouldn't believe the project I was working on today....." I'm not saying this happened, but it's not far fetched for the leak to have come from Braun's side. People act like only Braun, his attorney, Bud Selig, and a person at the test lab knew about it. There are probably dozens of people on each side that were involved. Several people at the lab, several people in the MLB offices (including MLB attorneys), several people on Brauns side (his attorneys and staff, possibly his agent?, possibly his girlfriend?, parents?), at least 2 or 3 people at the lab that conducted the test. Also, it's not like I'm some huge fan of ESPN (although, I guess I don't have the animosity towards them that others seem to), but do you think any other news agency would have sat on this news if they had received it? I doubt it. The New Miami Times sat on Braun being involved with Biogenesis because they didn't feel there was enough information to include him in their report. ESPN had no problem adding Braun's name to the headline though when they got their hands on the same information. I have little doubt that other media companies would have required more confirmation before ESPN decided to run the original Braun story non stop.

I think the general consensus is that the leak came from someone Braun consulted and not from MLB.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140300713.html Here is an article where some sports marketing experts talk about the damage this did to his endorsement deals. How do you quantify it? I have no idea how you get an exact number. That he lost endorsements and money seems pretty obvious though.

Which essentially makes ESPN one step away from the National Enquirer. If Braun once again gets suspended and once again wins the appeal process, he and his lawyers should sue ESPN for $50 million for defamation of character and lost wages from endorsement deals. This whole fiasco could cost Braun a chance at the Hall of Fame due to irresponsible tabloid style "reporting" and an overzealous commissioner who is trying to make up for his own horribly tarnished legacy. To be fair, wasn't it the New Miami Times (or whatever it's called) that broke this latest story about Bosch and his connection to several MLB players? Braun's reaction was that his lawyers contacted Bosch as a possible consultant during the appeals process. Well, if Brauns positive test had never been leaked by ESPN, then Braun could have never made that statement. Also, not sure how what I posted about TJ Quinn stating seemingly factual information about how the MLB appeal process works makes ESPN one step away from the National Enquirer? The New Miami Times left Braun's name off their story because there wasn't enough to connect him like the other players. It was only when ESPN got a hold of the information that the headline changed to include Braun's name at every turn. It was then that Braun responded.

A lot of wild assumptions being made by a small number of posters assuming Braun's guilt, too... Actually, around the internet its a very large number of people assuming Braun's guilt. As cooler heads have said, we just don't know much right now. The FACTS we do know though, like the way this is being handled, are troubling to say the least.

I can see how this probably went down. Them: We have witnesses and even other players who have given you up. Confess now and save us all the trouble. Braun: 5th.

just in CF.. Adam Jones Jacoby Ellsbury Andrew McCutchen Shin-Soo Choo Brett Gardner Colby Rasmus Mike Trout (57 gms in CF this year) Yes but when taken in to NL count that is McCutchen and Choo only. McCutchen won it last season. Kemp before. Then before the at his position change there were Carlos Gonzalez/Michael Bourn. So looks like Gomez is strictly up against McCutchen in the NL. Current ESPN DFWAR at CF: Gomez 2.6 Geraldo Parra 1.4 Logan Schafer 1.3 Starling Marte 1.3 McCutchen 1.2 AJ Pollock 1.2 Gregor Polanco 1.1 Deeper only Pollock,McCutchen and Gomez have played over 50games in CF. So it's strictly between Gomez and McCutchen Looking at defense for GG? Get out of here.

I don't understand this line of thinking. If you were forced to meet with people who knowingly paid for any info they could get their hands on to try and nail you and suspend you from your livelihood, would you be willing to cooperate with them, considering they aren't at all interested in your innocence; all they want you to do is admit your guilt? What could Braun possibly say to get them off of his back? If he maintains his innocence MLB will say "You're lying! We're suspending you 100 games!" If Braun implicates himself by admitting PED use, MLB will say "Thanks for being honest! We're suspending you 100 games!" Anyone who was expecting Braun to cooperate is naive because either way he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Silence, on the other hand, cannot be quoted. If my professional and personal reputation were on the line--and if I were at risk of losing millions of dollars in salary--and if I was not guilty of violating a PED charge, I would answer all questions. Though Braun may be getting advice from his lawyers, his union, his agent and/or his family to not answer questions. There's too much that we don't know about this case to comment, including your speculation on the motives and actions of the investigators. If my reputation and freedom were on the line because someone in law enforcement hated me and wanted nothing more than to put me behind bars while I was not guilty of a crime they wanted to charge me for I would answer zero questions unless charged. And any lawyer would advise me to do so.

Why would Braun say anything to them? If they have something on him, go ahead and try to suspend him. If not, let him play. Second, I LOVE how MLB isn't even bothering to try to do this behind closed doors anymore.