thebruce44

PEDs encompass a wide range of products. For every McGuire/Sosa, who were roided up on Stanozolol, there is a Chuck Knoblock. Then there are the modern PEDs, like HGH which help you recover from injury or to get back in the weight room faster. Its a lot different than what those guys of the "steroid" era were on. Sure, HGH has its positives, but it doesn't turn a good player into an MVP.

Yeah that starting pitching that's recorded 11 shutouts in the last 57 games is really awful. Finally, we agree on something Briggs.

Wait, that AROD thing makes no sense. I mean think about it.

Player B has the same SLG as Player A without all of those hits. So he will be hitting more XBH than Player A. Will that drive in just as many runs to overcome those times he walks instead of hit? Player A: 500pa 335outs 145 1b 0 3b 20hr 0bb .330/.330/.450 Player B: 500pa 335outs 50 1b 1 3b 34hr 80bb .202/.330/.450 Player A has 80 more hits than Player B. How many come in a situation that makes it better than a walk? Does it counter the fact that Player B has more HRs that always result in a run? Every time Player B draws a walk, it guarantees at least four pitches during that at bat. You also can't defend a walk with a defensive gem. If forced to, I would say Player A is the better player. But I believe they are so close that it is really splitting hairs to argue about it. We can look at the OPS and see they are pretty equal, and that is what they are. You would have to use better (and harder to calculate off the top of your head) stats to really see who is better. So you're saying in order to refute statistics one has to correctly use more statistics?! Mindblowing...math is hard and stuff.

Gamel still has the highest ceiling. Its a lost year, so whats the harm in seeing if he can reestablish himself?

Like pretty much everything, HGH can be harmful is taken improperly. But its nothing like the steroids guys were on when baseball went through the juiced balls and players era...you know, the one that brought all the fans back after the strike.

Yea, actually we do since their civil suit against Bosch is public knowledge. That magically went away when he cooperated. What else do you need for that to be "fact?" Either way, you could be respectful of fellow posters.

I think the NFL and NBA have handled the steroid aspect much more effectively. MLB's integrity was apparently ruined and needs to be protected while the NFL especially markets their product as entertainment and isn't on as high of a horse in terms of history and preservation. MLB made themselves a target for more criticism. As such, they have been ineffective at what they said they were going to do. Personally, I don't care, but the criticism is very warranted. They made their own bed.

I'd do it just to advance at my job for a minimal pay increase. In fact, I know quite a few people I work with or went to school with used/use PED's like adderall for licensing tests. I didn't because I'm oddly good at standardized testing with minimal effort, but if I needed to I wouldn't really think twice about it.

Braun's wikipedia page: Offered scholarships by Stanford University and the University of California, Berkeley, he instead attended the University of Miami on an academic scholarship, due to his high school grades.[8] He chose Miami for its academics, its athletics, and its social scene, noting: "I think the girls were the deal closer on the recruiting trip." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Braun

Oh, I absolutely thought Salome = McCann and Lucroy = Saltdog. Either way I would have been happy though, and I'm ecstatic with what we have now. And I agree, Lucroy was always the safer bet, I thought if anyone would be the star though it would be Salome. Its nice to have a prospect really reach their ceiling, and from everything I've ever heard from Lucroy I'm not surprised he reached that point. I get the impression he doesn't accept anything less of himself.

I'm sure its simply the Miami connection. The latino players have the obvious connection to the city and Braun had his connection for the women (his words, not mine).

I'm sure that's true, and yes that's the point I was trying to make. It will be interesting to see where the next major ring comes from. Wonder if it will be with a more dangerous organization. There's a lot of money there, someone will step in to fill the demand.

This could also cause potential "cheaters" to use these drugs in more dangerous manners. Ideally, at least to me, they get HGH from a doctor who makes sure to minimize any negative side effects. Instead, they will now probably purchase through a member of their entourage from someone even shadier than Bosch without proper consultation.

You are entitled to that opinion. Seems like many have this opinion (that you think it's ok for athletes to use this stuff to recover quickly). I don't share that opinion. One reason is because I believe players will use that as an excuse when they are really using it to build muscle and enhance their natural abilities on the field. Knowing what I know now about that era (Sosa, McGuire, and company), I'd rather not return to that. There is a huge difference between Stanozolol and HGH. But to further muddy the waters, does it bother you that players use creatine to recover and workout more, thereby enhancing their natural abilities? If it doesn't bother you, how have you separated creatine from HGH with one being acceptable but the other not? What I have a hard time understanding is that some seem to be ok with players breaking the rules that they agreed upon with MLB? True, that's why while I am ok with players using HGH, I am also ok with them being suspended. I think this is one of the many reasons baseball has issues. The whole "integrity of the game" nonsense has gotten way too disingenuous over the years. But all this is for another thread.

You can't choose to believe one person who claims to have inside information and not another based on your opinion about their "respectability" Sure I can. And I did. And I will continue to do so. Who? Did they report it independantly or did they quote Carroll? Did they report it as fact or speculation? There were lots of reports about it not being a technicality. I remember reading a second article at SI.com about them repeating the testing but can't find it now. However, here are some articles about why flawed testing procedures are not a technicality: http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/munson-120224/ryan-braun-ruling-raises-embarrassing-questions-mlb-drug-testing http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/ http://www.baseballnation.com/2012/2/24/2820524/braun-decision-why-ensuring-a-proper-chain-of-custody-matters And here is one about confirmation bias, what I assume you are accusing me of: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/ryan-braun-and-confirmation-bias/ "figured" being the key work here. And yes, I agree chain of custody is important, and Braun had every right to win his case based on that (if that's how he won it...again, nobody really knows this for sure). Funny how it's ok if Will Carroll leaks information that he somehow got (like to know how he got this information), but if someone else leaks information that is not "Pro-Braun" they are scum. Not really sure how to respond to this or even if its directed at me. I honestly don't really care if a player uses whatever is medically available to them to try to get back or stay on the field, after all I spend a lot to follow the team and I want the best players there and healthy. I like Will Carroll because he interacts with a lot of his readers even if its criticism and generally seems intelligent. I think he cares much less about his popularity than getting a story correct. And I think when it comes to medical issues he knows more than a lot of other reporters. I don't think any reporters are scum (with rare exceptions like Bayless who I hesitate to even call a reporter)...some are lazy though and I don't think they are worth my time.

I think it's funny how people choose to believe things on twitter, the internet, TV, or whatever media source based on their own personal feelings about this issue. They will believe one source because it's in alignment with what they think, but not another if it conflict with their beliefs. There are only a few facts I know for sure about this situation. Some of these facts are: A) Braun failed a drug test. B) Braun won his appeal of the failed drug test C) Braun held a press conference where he pretty much stated that he never took PEDs and that the person who handled his sample did not follow proper procedures D) Braun has agreed to a 65 game suspension (whether or not he was "railroaded" into agreeing to this suspension is pure speculation - even though some choose to present it as absolute fact) Just to expand on the report of Braun's team reproducing results, 1- Carroll is a pretty well respected journalist 2- this was reported by multiple reporters, not just Carroll 3- these results matched what a lot of people with a scientific or technical background figured happened. Otherwise, chain of custody and sample handling on their own are large enough issues to render results inconclusive. In other words, Braun's appeal wasn't overturned on a technicality and thats still the case despite what has happened since...not that it really matters anymore.

He did? Was this recent? Did I miss it? I saw a statement from him after the suspension was announced where he said something like "he made some mistakes", but I don't remember anything like "I took PED's" ever coming out of his mouth. Yea, I don't remember an admission either.

Old Robert Smith is still awesome.

I've seen Cage the Elephant 2 or 3 times. They put on a great show, but the lead singer looks like he is going to be the next in line to die at 28. I know that sounds bad, but you will understand once you see them.

Not to take this thread off track but what your friends mother did is highly illegal. This is equal to insider trading. As for buying a foreclosed home it is a big gamble on what you are going to get. It is like taking a gun out aiming it at yourself and pulling the trigger and seeing what happens. From what I've heard, it happens 90% of the time with foreclosures. Anyway, without a connection its high risk, high reward. If you are in a position to do something like this, where you have a lot of experience and a team to help its doable, but if you are the little guy I think you are out of luck. The idea was to help people during a poor economic climate, but it seems in my market its just making the rich richer.

Articles (aka speculation) do not equal evidence. At this point I would have thought that was obvious to anyone following this story.

Really? That might be hard to avoid in Denver.

And their PED violations get no attention (Von Miller should have been a huge issue) and little punishment. IMO, they have it right.

Your original post is one of the major reasons why the whole Braun fiasco hasn't bothered me that much. A guy tried to get an advantage in his training by taking something slightly across the arbitrary line his union and MLB agreed to. Meanwhile we move on while players are drunk driving, beating women, and even committing murder. Integrity of the game my butt. Rant over.