Postseason2006

Considering he's been out late in the year during our stretch runs, I would think that would be another valid argument about his importance.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8782170/Brewers'-veterans-could-be-dealt-for-pitching-help IMO, this makes sense for many reasons. If these two players go to New York in Fielder and Cameron, CC ends up in New York. This allows us to get the Yankees #1 pick also with Fielder going here because in no way do they pursue Texeira. Then the Brewers are free and clear of some money allowing us to pursue someone like Dempster. I would also try and get Suppan involved in the deal to New York if possible.

Olsen owned the Brewers this past year also.

I take it you just completely ignored my post? ennder, LA and Philly prove otherwise of what you just stated. Again ERA and pitching are highly more relevant than hitting. And again, Cameron's defense wasn't that great. He's got an average arm. I am glad you mentioned Toronto because if you didn't notice, there win total was 86 which is very good considering they finished 4th in their division which had the wildcard team.

As I posted on another thread, ERA is the real measure of teams that win - plain and simple. The Brewers need to go get another starter if CC leaves.

Again, as I pointed out, just look at pitching vs hitting. That is the true measure of successful teams and winning has to do with ERA. The Brewers are so focused on CF when pitching is the true measure of success.

Count me in for one of the Dave Bush defenders even though I did not like the trade at the time. The guy has brought no hit stuff to the game at times. If he could avoid that "big inning" and the long ball, the guy would be more than a solid #3.

Kerry Wood makes me a believer.

Certainly not batting average and strikeout numbers, which don't correlate to winning or losing? More like on-base percentage and slugging percentage, which do. So according to what you just posted, the Top teams in OBP were Boston Chicago, StL, Texas, and Atlanta. Only 3 of those 5 were over .500. In OPS, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, StL, and Texas were the top 5. Only 3 of those 5 were over .500. In SLG the Top 5 were the two Chicago teams, Texas, Detroit, and Boston. Again, 3 teams were over .500. The LA Angels clearly blow your theory out of the water with a SLG and OBP ranked 18th. Philly was 16th in OBP. http://sports.espn.go.com...Type=batting&type=reg In fact, you stated BA has nothing to do with wins, the mere matter of fact is that 5 of the Top 6 teams were over .500 in overall average. Coincidence? While SLG the ball is important it is not why a team wins. While Tampa Bay relied on the long ball along with Philly, both teams were able to score runs at times because they could run. I remember seeing a stat where Philly was one of the best teams at stealing bases and they gave Davey Lopes that credit. I feel the Brewers are better off spending money for pitching. While we are caught up with the longball it's clear to see why teams are successful. http://sports.espn.go.com...p;split=0&season=2008 My biggest point overall is that instead of spending 10 million on a CF, pitching is what wins. If the Brewers lose out on CC, trading Cameron to free up money to spend on pitching would be more ideal right now. The Top 9 ERA's all finished over .500. 10th was Oakland but they were a bottom feeder in every offensive category.

For all the Cameronatics, his OBP was middle of the pack for this past year sitting at .331 which was 1/100th's of a point higher than Lastings Milledge who was at .330. This put Cameron at 15th overall for CF's. http://sports.espn.go.com...null&endDate=null&minpa=0 His OPS was 7th overall which was .809. He tied for 4th overall in K's with 142 but his plate appearances total was 444 which gave him a SO once every 3 at bats. Shane Victorino was the 3rd leading hitter among CF's with only 69 K's in 570 at bats meaning his ability to put the ball in play and use his speed was much greater than Cameron. Plus, his OBP was .352. I only used Victorino since a previous poster related OBP plus OPS equaled winning. For those of those claiming that Cameron is a top 10 CF, I would take BJ Upton, Nate McClouth, Curtis Granderson, Josh Hamilton, Shane Victorino, Carlos Beltran, Jacoby Ellsbury, Torii Hunter, Grady Sizemore, Matt Kemp, and Ichiro Suzuki before Cameron.

Certainly not batting average and strikeout numbers, which don't correlate to winning or losing? More like on-base percentage and slugging percentage, which do.Do you have numbers that back this? Compare Shane Victorino's numbers and play to Cameron's and who would you take?

I'm guessing that most people that like Cameron are looking at the numbers rather than being guided by personal biases. And you probably feel that Derek Jeter's jock strap would be sufficient compensation.What numbers are you looking at? The mere fact that he's a career .250 hitter who K'ed a career high per at bat last year which was about 1 for every 3 at bats and misplayed more balls in his career than any other year. Can't people see the mere fact is that he's going to be 36 and faded down the stretch last year when he missed the first month of the season?

I guess I am missing why everyone is gaga over Cameron calling him one of the best CF's in the game. The guy had an inflated August with the rest of the season being below average. He couldn't hit .200 in September or the postseason and his defense late killed the Brewers. I would make a deal with the Yankees in a heartbeat.

As soon as the innings piled up for Dempster, he lost his control at the end of the year. Not sure I would sign him.

I agree with everything you say. People think because he's an improvement over Bill Hall, makes him all world. He misjudged the ball in the first place. And that play was THE ball game after everyone's lovable loser, ricKiE wEEKs dropped the ball at first. Sveum should've had Durham playing or Counsell on defense alone in game 1. Yet, we can keep talking about what a "great" hitter he was. Problem is his defense on routine plays CATCHING and THROWING the ball was downright pathetic. Second, Cameron hit like a hack to end September and in the 4 game series against Philly. I aso believe his age having to do with his offense going south the end the year considering he only laced em up for 120 games.

Dean Taylor traded to get Sexson for Bere, Woodard, and Wickman. The Brewers got Kane Davis and another pitcher I believe.

I guess I am in the minority also and have yet to see how great Melvin has been. He has one good trade in his pocketbook so far and that was Lee for Pods. I don't see any other trade where Melvin got returns for value that make him a "great" GM. The CC trade was only made because of great farm depth due to Z not Melvin. He's picked a couple guys of the scrap heap but when you are a smaller market team, that is what you do. He's not the worst GM, but the idol worship for getting us 1 whole postseason win since he's been here is disappointing. He stuck with a bad manager for two years to long and that only should've been the outright reason for removal.

Sarfate was a decent arm that we had but decided to go "shopping" somewhere else.

Astros Ignoring the aging Carlos Lee: I guess I am trying to figure what the comment was for this? Lee had terrific numbers again this past year.

You'll be waiting along time for the LuCroy is a reserve bandwagon to get full....

Why would anyone be jealous of Tampa? I think IT's DANG AWESOME! Choker Lou couldn't win with the mighty Mariners and not with the unstoppable Cubs after leaving Tampa. I'm waiting for a legitimate story from ESPN on some coverage on that alone.

Even with Counsell's great ability to draw walks, his OPS was awful to say the least and with a catcher just as bad along with the pitchers spot, there is no reason to keep talking about Craig. And again, dadofandrew, we know you don't like LuCroy. You've called him a backup catcher if he makes it.

I really, really do not want to see Melvin back. He was still in love with his bad coach and made some horrific offseason moves that bit this team. Having 6 free swinging righties with one LH bat was a bad mistake along with trading your only LH bat off the bench in Gross.

Batting Hall and Cameron 1-2 was Yost-like along with starting the "gritty" postseason vet Suppan. I am still short of words on why start Suppan if he had the intent of using Gallardo. Just a head scratcher and lost in the sauce as Yost.

After watching Sveum go 7-5 with only a sweep of a bad Pirate team then starting Weeks along with batting Cameron and Hall 1-2 and starting Suppan in game 4 then going to Gallardo, PLEASE DO NOT EVEN THINK OF THIS. I am still upset with Kremblas who was successful with these players in the minors and nothing short of a good coach. He had zilch to work with in AAA this year.