paul253

Maybe we should trade Segura now since his value is probably at its peak? This is a strawman argument. I'm not suggesting he trade EVERYONE when they are at their peak. It would just be nice to maximize someone's value every now and then before they completely fall off a cliff and we are stuck with them. LaPorta Lawrie Jeffress Will Inman First off, the fact that you have to list prospects kind of proves my point. But I don't think it's fair to list off prospects here because if you want to go that route I can name three times as many prospects who never had any major league success and Melvin never traded. One name I did forget was Podsednik. He seemed to trade him at a good time. But there is just this history of hanging onto guys for way too long. McGehee. Axford. Hall. Hart. Weeks. Now possibly Lohse. Possibly Henderson. It just seems to me like Melvin is overcommitted to his players sometimes. I have no idea what he could have gotten in trades for any of these guys, but honestly whatever he did get probably would have been better than what those players produced in their last few years here.

This is kind of what I figured would happen. Despite the fact that the Brewers are a terrible team and we've been constantly burned by overpriced veterans, Doug Melvin is not going to make any significant trades and the 2014 Brewers will look a lot like the 2013 Brewers. Outside of maybe his latest trade of KRod, has Melvin ever traded a guy whose value was at its peak?

So if Roenecke and Melvin stick to the usual game plan I'm guessing Wooten is going to be starting pretty soon?

Way to help out the ole trade value Yo.

I'm getting more and more pessimistic about the trade deadline. All I can see them doing is trading KRod and Gonzalez and getting a few mid ceiling prospects, nothing significant. This team will basically be the same next year, just a year older. Yay.

Glad he finally got moved. Maybe this get some interest in Gallardo or Lohse going.

What can we realistically expect for KRod? Can we get a pitching prospect with #3 upside? I'd say if not then ask for a position player. We have enough 4's and 5's.

Interest in Gallardo seems to be waning while interest in Matt Garza is exploding. Hopefully Garza gets traded soon so teams can focus on Gallardo.

Well Gennett is a career .300 minor league hitter. His biggest problem is his lack of power. Taylor Green was a 2 time minor league player of the year for the Brewers, including IIRC the year before ARam was signed, with a career .289/.370/.452 line. Gamel .310/.372/.540 and Schafer .294/.354/.430. Given that Gennett and Schafer play positions that aren't normally hotbeds for power I'm not overly concerned about the lack of power and Schafer's defense, while maybe not as good as Gomez, is still well above average. Granted the numbers are not quite as good as those St Louis players I mentioned but are still good enough to be given a shot early on. I realize there were some injury issues but it just seems like, as I mentioned, unless you are a top prospect or there is no other option you will not be given a fair chance in Milwaukee's lineup. They'll have no problem calling you up to sit on the bench but without an injury or struggling veteran playing time will be sparse. I think this is a huge problem with player development and is a big reason while Milwaukee's every day lineup next year may very well include 5 players 30 or older.

I think the two biggest culprits are: 1) The scouting department. The Greinke and Marcum trades depleted the system pretty badly but even before then there was no pitching. The continued development of Jimmy Nelson, Taylor Jungmann, and Tyler Thornburg leave some room for hope but there is not one pitcher in the entire organization with #1 potential and MAYBE one or two with #2 potential. Either the scouts are just terrible at evaluating a player's ceiling or they are being way too conservative with their picks (or most likely both). 2) Melvin. Melvin clings on to players for far too long and doesn't know when to maximize a player's value. Guys like John Axford and Corey Hart should have been traded years ago and a guy like Jim Henderson should be moved now. Melvin also hands out multiyear deals way too quickly, usually only needing one year of success to offer up the deal. I know most people loved the Carlos Gomez deal but not me. I think we are starting to see Gomez revert to career norms and I still believe he will end the year with his typical .270 batting average and .300 OBP. True he hits for power and provides great defense but not every player on the roster has to hit for power. After this season Melvin could have a) offered him a long term deal if he still wanted to or b) offered him a QO, which he'd probably turn down, and gain an additional comp pick. But instead we give him 4 years and $32 million because he had a so-so year last year. Finally, Melvin and his managers rarely give young players a chance. Unless you are a top prospect (Fielder, Braun, Weeks, Hart) or we have nobody else to play (Hardy, Escobar, Lucroy) you aren't going to get a chance. When you look at a team like St. Louis (and please someone correct me if I am wrong) guys like John Jay, Matt Carpenter, Allen Craig and David Freese were never top prospects but they were still given a chance and now make up the core of the lineup on the best team in baseball. I'm not saying guys like Taylor Green, Mat Gamel, Logan Schafer, and Scooter Gennett will have the success as those players but how is anybody going to have success when they don't play?

Right now, so far out, I can say I'll be extremely disappointed if they don't draft a college pitcher with #1 or at the very least #2 potential. The way the organization is set up, they definitely need an ace. As things come together and our draft position is set and players solidify their draft position it may become clear a position player fits the draft pick better I could get more board with a position player. I just don't want them to take an outfielder.

From MLB trade rumors: "Morosi says the D'Backs and Brewers have discussed Axford, Rodriguez, and Jim Henderson, while Knobler says the Brewers have told teams Henderson won't be dealt." I realize it may just be posturing but if it is true Jim Henderson won't be dealt then it is clear Doug Melvin hasn't learned his lesson. The reason he wouldn't be dealt would no doubt be the fact that he is cheap and under team control for awhile yet. A few years ago they were in the exact same situation with John Axford and look what happened. Axford's value now is much lower than it was a year and a half ago. Henderson may be cheap but he is a 30 year old reliever with less than two years of major league success. If someone wants him and is willing to either provide a decent prospect or provide a better prospect in a package deal then you do it. You don't hang on to 8th inning pitchers when you are on pace to finish 26 games under .500.

Like I said, long term Hellweg is supposed to be a Starter. You don't flip roles if the guy that profiles to be the starter as a RP and the guy who profiles to become a RP be the Starter? I've never understood why Thornburg "profiles as a reliever". Because of his height? Up until this season he was absolutely dominant as a starter. Far and away the best pitching prospect in the system. And he's had a down year this year yes but his secondary numbers aren't terrible. Good walk to strikeout ratio. Just giving up too many hits for whatever reason. But it's been half a season. I'd like to believe the Brewers haven't given up on him as a starter but it's the Brewers so I know they have. But if Thornburg's problem is how where he locates his pitches than shouldn't Hellweg be like....infinitely more likely to end up a reliever than Thornburg? Hellweg has a good ERA in Nashville but a terrible walk to strike out ratio. And when he pitches in Milwaukee it's clear that the only thing he can throw for a strike is his fastball (sometimes at least), which major league hitters have been waiting on and destroying. I'd give him all the chance in the world to be a starter too but if anyone profiles as a reliever, to me at least, it's him. So far at the ML level Thornburg is having much more success than Hellweg so why Hellweg is still starting and Thornburg is coming out of the bullpen is beyond me. Personally I'd demote both of them to Nashville to continue getting regular work and call up Narveson. I think they'll be ok if they take Olmstead of Lalli off the 40 man to free up a spot.

Who toes the mound in his place? What Pitcher do we send up to be slaughtered instead? Thornburg. His role and Hellweg's should be switched. Hellweg has looked awful in Milwaukee. He has absolutely no command. Thornburg has actually looked ok since being recalled. Otherwise put Narveson back on the 40 and let him pitch. At this point what does it even matter?

Maybe Halton will play well enough to prevent the need for resigning Hart. A Halton/Gamel platoon wouldn't be the end of the world in a rebuilding year. Of course that means you lose Hart for nothing, which is a massive fail on Melvin's part.

Based on Gallardo's stats this season, it could be AZ, but I'm not convinced the Brewers have decided to deal Yo yet either. If Melvin hasn't decided if he is going to trade Yo yet he should be fired, especially if he has the opportunity to get Skaggs.

The fact that Pittsburgh and St. Louis are both having great seasons is making the road seem much tougher for the Brewers but that can change fast too. Things can change but only if the Brewers accept the fact that they need to change, which I am not sure they have. If they had we wouldn't have wasted a draft pick on Kyle Lohse or spent pretty much all draft selecting college pitchers who profile as relievers. And I'll be absolutely shocked if the Brewers trade Lohse, Gallardo, or Ramirez, all players who should be moved for the right offer. I think the state of the franchise can be summed up like this. They have enough pieces to stay competitive but they need to start making better decisions. And they need their pitching prospects to step up. Thornburg, Peralta, and Nelson need to show they belong in the majors and Hellweg needs to figure out how to locate his pitchers.

Besides Segura and Gomez which core players do we have at key positions? I still consider Lucroy a core player. He is still learning how to call games but let's not forget that decade long disaster of catchers we threw out not to long ago. I am thinking Doug Melvin needs to go. He's had a decade now to try to figure out how to develop pitching and pure and simple he can't do it. I thought that 2011 draft in which he had two top of the top 15 picks in the loaded draft was extremely important and it's looking like he blew it. Taylor Jungmann is showing positive signs lately but he could have had Jose Fernandez. He also could have had Taylor Guerreri Alex Meyer or Robert Stephenson but chose Jed Bradley instead. It just seems like he and his scouting department has no idea what they're doing when it comes to pitching. And this year is showing what happens when you can't draft pitching and you run out of prospects to trade. I think this franchise is in trouble.

The other thing about Gallardo is that you don't want to hang onto him too long like Melvin has a tendency to do (Axford, McGehee, Hart, etc). He is showing signs this year of dropping off. It may be a fluke but if it happens again next year you won't get nearly as much for him as you would now. I realize guys like Skaggs and Davidson are "just prospects" but at some point every player is just a prospect. Gallardo was just a prospect at one point. A reasonable person would look at this franchise and realize they are two to three years away from contending so you need to try to find guys that could help two to three years from now. It could be Gallardo but you'd have to resign him and give him something like $12 million a year. More likely though it won't be so take him and move him for players that will be able to help in two to three years. I am not a "the sky is falling" type person. I am a "the sky has been dropping pretty steadily the past two years and nothing in the organization makes me believe it's going to stop so let's see if we can change that but acquiring high ceiling talent" type person.

I just guess my question is why? Maybe it's not a big deal, even though he's been switched back and forth what, three times in the past year + ? But what is the need to switch him so often? Is there nobody else they can call up that can pitch multiple innings? Mike Fiers? Chris Narveson? Even Kyle Heckathorn.

Because, long term, imo his role will be in the bullpen. So I want to see him get acclimated to that asap. Up until this season he has excelled as a starting pitcher. Why not let him start until he proves he can't cut it as a starter? And no, half a season of struggling as a starter does not prove he can't cut it as a starter. For a franchise that is so pathetic at developing their own pitching it sure seems like they refuse to learn their lesson.

Just because a few of our "top" prospects are OF doesn't mean we are by any means over-crowded with MLB-caliber starting OF, But when we have all of these other holes to fill, namely starting pitching, third base and maybe even first base I don't think you should be using the few decent trade chips you have to acquire players at positions you already have mostly covered. 2/3 of your starting OF will be back next year and Aoki could easily be back as well. Schafer Davis and Gindl are all players who have seen time in the OF this year and are under control for several seasons. Next season Kentrail Davis will be at AAA as well. While none of these guys profile as all-stars and may even top off as platoon players, they are good enough while the team is rebuilding. The fact is if we don't find better pitchers you could throw Mays, Mantle and Aaron out there and this team will still have a hard time competing. If Melvin trades Gallardo for a package that includes an outfielder I'll be furious.

I am so sick of this. I understand that he has struggled a bit this year but he was your top prospect going into the season. How many times are you going to switch him between the rotation and the bullpen? Listening to Roenecke it sounds like he wants to keep Thornburg as a long reliever for awhile. The season is over. They are going nowhere. You'd think at the very least they could stop messing with Thornburg and just let him start. They're doing it with Peralta. Why can't they do it with Thornburg?

I would be really surprised if Corey Hart didn't sign a one year deal with Milwaukee. I don't think they'll be willing to go with Morris or Halton at first. Plus it's really the only chance they get something for Hart. I can't believe (actually I can) how badly the Brewers screwed up the Hart situation. He should have been traded years ago. Maybe this will finally open their eyes about relying on older players and hanging onto players for way too long (Hart, Weeks, McGehee, Axford, etc)

The Bucks would do well to try to trade this pick for a 2014 first rounder.