UpandIn

Yeah...it's kinda silly and pointless, but this team is definitely making you want to live in a different Packers reality.

Well...yeah, if the players they want are sitting there. They tried to trade up this past year and take Watson in the 1st round but Minnesota didn't want to give the Packers that 5th year option on Watson(which...it might take until then to see him get on the field). I'm sure they'd have taken a WRer in the 1st this year if all those guys would have been on the board earlier(Williams, London, Olave, Burks...etc...).

Their physical attributes are almost identical across the board with Henry being a little taller, but their size, speed...nearly identical. His pass catching has been VERY good. As has been pointed out, he just wasn't asked to do it in College. Maybe it's more about patience than vision. If he's not waiting for the blocks to open up, it ends up looking the same...maybe it's more about him just pressing and trying to do too much. Some of it also obviously the Packers OL not creating the same holes they did last year for him. Maybe he's just the type of back who isn't very good when he's getting 5-8 carries a game and he needs to get into a rhythm. I don't know. Right now though, Dillon's just not reading the blocks well so far this year. He's still a nice player, but when you have Aaron Jones(slower 40 times) on the field with AJ Dillon, it feels like the contrast is pretty stark. He's one of the guys we really need to get on track and get going.

I was gonna put this in the Packers discussion thread, but I didn't want to derail it. With the Packers looking like just trash this year, I thought I'd go back and run the hypothetical; What if the Packers traded Aaron Rodgers after losing to Tampa Bay when he was requesting a trade. Denver was reportedly "desperate" to trade for Aaron Rodgers. The rumors at the time were 3 1st round picks+3 2nds. Davante Adams likely gets dealt then. Not worth speculating if we'd have gotten more if we traded him with a year left....though it would stand to reason. But for the sake of this discussion, I'm just going to keep him with Jordan Love(young QB needs a #1 WRer). Obviously there are an infinite number of variables, but the Packers shift from trying to supplement a roster in a win-now mode Instead of 13-4, I'll say the Packers go 6-11(not a knock on Love, Rodgers was 6-10 with a talented team as a rookie). That'd give them the 6th pick in this past draft. Make the Broncos 13-4 just for arguments sake, keep the Packers at #28 and the #22 pick for Adams. 2021 Season; Instead of 13-4, I'll say the Packers go 6-11(not a knock on Love, Rodgers was 6-10 with a talented team as a rookie). That'd give them the 6th pick in this past draft. Make the Broncos 13-4 just for arguments sake, keep the Packers at #28 and the #22 pick for Adams. Their picks in Rd 3-7 remain the same both years. 2021 NFL Draft- We acquire the Bronco's 1st round pick and their 2nd 2021-9th-(OT)Rashawn Slater- With Bakhtiari down with an ACL and with Billy Turner at RT, we start by 29th-(CB)Eric Stokes We still needed CBs and...this was a great pick. So I'm sticking with it. I'd probably go with Rosseau as we'd likely also be saying good bye to the Smith's and he'd be great on the other side from Gary, but...this was the original pick. 2nd From Den-(DE)Christian Barmore The Packers reportedly loved Barmore and there were rumors we were going to take him at #29. We didn't, he went early in the 2nd. 2nd(#62-)C-Josh Myers It's not a redraft, so trying to stick with what the Packers front office did. Obviously in a redraft...we'd take Creed Humphrey, but Myers has a ton of upside. 2022 NFL Draft With a 6-11 season, that puts us 1 spot ahead of the Falcons. Now, at this point, we're still looking at Bakhtiari and Jenkins to return, so OT isn't a need, but we've just traded Davante Adams, so WRer to surround Jordan Love obviously is. The Packers draft wasn't really a "win now" type of draft aside from trading the 2 2nd round picks for Watson and even that was for a player they knew was a bit of a project. I'm also just assuming the Broncos draft position resembled that of the Packers to make it simpler. 1st #8(our own)WR-Jameson Williams We can afford to take a WRer who has the most upside and has enormous upside. We could ALSO take an OT like Cross to pair with Slater(Which would be my preference, but unlikely as we'd have already invested a lot of money and draft capital in OT with Bakh and Slater). Drake London is another option. But Williams in this system is just too explosive and we have the luxury of waiting and giving him time to develop...though it may hurt Love's development. 1st-(from Oak)#22(Adams trade)MLB-Quay Walker Walker is going to be a star...IMO. But regardless, again, not re-drafting, just sticking with what we did. 1st-(from Den)#28-Christian Watson He's off to an ugly start, but after taking Barmore, we probably don't go DE in back to back years. Plus, the Packers apparently fell in Love with Watson for his blocking ability, run after the catch and the big frame and deep speed. I still think Wyatt's going to be a Quinnen Williams type 3-4 DE. He's that type of athlete and he's relentless. He is not however a finished product and he is 24 years old, so not sure the Packers come back and take another DE after Barmore the year before. At least not this high. Maybe at #38, but I think it's just as likely he'd be gone by then. 2nd (#38)S-Jaquan Brisker With Amos and Savage both still question marks, I'm gonna go with an athletic Safety. 2nd(#53) WR-Alec Pierce The Jordy Nelson comp. In this instance, we don't have to reach for Watson, so we let the board play out. 2nd(#59) Edge-Drake Jackson We address the edge position here with a great athlete, a younger guy with big upside. 2023 draft We'd have an extraordinarily young team. 2 Day One picks(assuming they don't add trade back...which they certainly could have). And then their own 2nd, plus potentially another from the Rodgers trade. You'd have 2 years to have evaluated Jordan Love and you'd be looking at an absolutely STACKED QB class if you'd decided he wasn't the answer. The Packers wouldn't have pushed ~100+M down the road, so they'd spend a year(or two) in salary cap purgatory, but would come out of the other side in outstanding cap shape. Gone from this years roster would likely be Preston Smith, Za'Darius Smith, Rodgers. Adrian Amos would likely be either cut or traded rather than restructured. He's an outstanding player, but we'd be looking at a youth movement. Watkins and Cobbs would likely be playing elsewhere. DeVondre Campbell and Rasul Douglas would likely have been signed last year. I'll assume they bring both back as they were both signed to VERY team friendly deals and Joe Barry is still our DC, this is still the scheme they rebuilt their value in. QB-Love/Kurt Benkert RB-Jones/Dillon/Hill WRer-London/Lazard/Watson/Doubs/Pierce/Doubs/Rodgers TE-Tonyan/Deguara/Lewis/Davis OT-Slater/Bakhtiari/Nijman/Tom/Walker/Jones OG-Jenkins/Runyan Jr/Newman/Rhyan C-Myer/Hanson NT-Clark/Slaton/Ford DE-Baramore/Lowry/Reed Edge-Gary/Jackson/Enagbare/Garvin MLB-Walker/Campbell/Barnes/McDuffie CB-Jaire/Surtain/Stokes/Douglas/Nixon S-Savage/Brisker/Carpenter/Ford The Packers would still be in rough salary cap shape, but next year they'd have Rodgers coming off, Bakhtiari's cap hit would be ~10M less. Jones, Bakh, Tonyan, Lazard, would all likely be traded/cut or just allowed to leave via free agency. Jenkins is a question mark in either scenario. But heading into 2023, the Packers would LIKELY have ~50M in salary cap space, they'd have 2 more 1st round picks this year including...again, most likely a top 10 pick, plus the Broncos pick and they'd have it in what some are calling the deepest QB draft class EVER; https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/college-football/nfl-gm-calls-2023-qb-draft-class-the-deepest-maybe-ever/ Whoever you decided would be your QB, moving forward with Love(who'd have one more cheap year) or using an early 1st on a QB, they'd have a lot of WRer talent and a very good and very young OL. The secondary would look elite. --- I was all on board with bringing Rodgers back despite the massive haul and reset the Packers could have gotten from moving on.

Yeah, but Rodgers got the ball out extraordinarily quickly. It was baked into the plan. I was very impressed by Tom...even if he got help all game long. Best DT duo in the league outside of Philly...IMO. They've got a great trio. But I'd been told that Tom wasn't big enough yet. That he had every other attribute you could want, but was lacking size/strength required. He certainly looked small, but athletic. He's not likely to get beat by many speed rushers...though guys like Bosa could give him a little more trouble. Either way, the OL wasn't a problem vs Washington, but I don't know if they were actually that great either...despite the good grades.

Why don't we mix the two and then add a 3rd. The OL isn't giving him enough time to allow for deeper throws. The throw to Amari Rodgers was a pretty good one. Great job by Amari to get behind the defense, but it was about 5 inches too long. IDK, he's rolling to his right and throws the ball, on the run. That was pretty damn accurate. To be able to judge his deep throw accuracy, we'd need to see actual designed deep throws. The vast majority are him throwing the ball up when we've got 1 on 1 on the outside and he's hoping someone catches a 50/50 ball. He did miss...6-8 short throws this past week and then on a couple others, Tonyan or Lazard took the ball off the ground. Then he comes back and drops a dime rolling to his left to Jones in the endzone. I don't think there's any one reason any part(every part) of this team is struggling. Hell, you could add a 4th with Rodgers. With DLs in his lap all day, he's also gone back to throwing from awkward platforms on a more regular basis. He's certainly talented enough to do that, but I think your accuracy comes and goes. I still think this team beats Buffalo. What'd be more appropriate than losing to both New Jersey teams, then the WFT...then beating the best team in the NFL(with respect to Philly...who is the matchup from hell for GB at the moment).

Yes...it's brutal. I didn't actually notice Daryl Johnston calling a bad game, but...ya know, I don't really notice what's going on in the background when I see something so vulgar on TV. It's like bird watching during a car accident. But I've never thought 'Moose' was a particularly great announcer.

Disagree. You need good vision to play in LaFleur's system. Dillon does not have that. He's better in a power scheme where they double and he can hit the hole running downhill. He doesn't have a great first step...unlike Jones. Rodgers fits literally every scheme save for some college like option scheme or RPO's where he's the R option. SF, LAR, they all wanted him for this system. The problem isn't his fit right now, it SEEMS like it's his ego. I'm not hearing him take any blame, I don't hear him shouldering the appropriate amount of blame and instead passing it off. But that's not a schematic issue, that's a 38 year old 2X reigning MVP Rodgers issue where he's just not being a great leader.

Amazing, isn't it? I never thought we'd see a Title in my lifetime(just like a Brewers WS). Yeah...you COULD trade that 2029 1st, but...damn that'd be dangerous. That'd be 1st draft without Giannis(in a worst case scenario in which Giannis leaves).

They're pretty much echoing the sentiments of Eric Nehm(Sp?) from the Athletic. I like Crowder...but he's not a great shooter and I don't know that he's actually an upgrade. Teams are going to be selling for maybe the best NBA prospect since LeBron in next years draft. You'll likely have more teams tanking this year than ever. Plus, if Joe Ingles comes back, then where's he going to play? It'd be nice to have Jrue, Crowder, Middleton, Ingles and Giannis on the court at times, but in a few months, you'll be able to include Nowra in a trade and other players they signed this past off-season. Allen is on a cheap deal, he's younger...hold onto him unless you can make a trade that significantly improves the team.

They did a great job trying to get the ball to Jones. I really have come to the conclusion that Dillon is a bad fit in this system. He does not have very good vision and he's not really getting any extra yards. Aaron Jones is SO much better right now. Maybe Dillon is just pressing...and he has been pretty good out of the backfield, but he needs to get the ball going downfield where as Jones can and should get it in any situation. I wanted Antonio Gibson coming out of College...and then I thought Dillon looked like a great fit and Gibson might be a little redundant with Jones. But AJ is just not getting better. He's not patient and again, he misses some OBVIOUS holes. Maybe the revamped OL starts creating more holes, but, but in 2003, we at least had an elite OL. This team doesn't until or if Bakh can stay on the field.

That said, when Rodgers was asked if he had confidence this offense could turn it around and they could go on a run, he said, "You're ******* right." So...I don't know, that's something. It doesn't match his on field body language, but it's something.

That's...Jesus. I love Rodgers, but how are you putting that on Amari? You didn't put enough under it. He had to lay out and if he makes that catch, we're talking about one of the best catches we've seen a Packer WRer make in a while. I'm not sure he can't be a solid WRer in the NFL after watching him today, I'm just pretty sure it WON'T be in Green Bay with Rodgers. The nerve to blame Amari there? That's not a play I expect either player to make. Rolling to your right, throwing it 45 yards downfield and dropping it right in there, but that's a play I expect Rodgers to make MUCH more than I expect Amari to catch it. The Packers issues right now; 1-Despite what I just said, our WRers aren't good enough. Defenses can crowd us and drop 7. We can't create much separation. 2-OL-With poor separation created, Rodgers needs a cleaner pocket. 3-Rodgers leadership I wouldn't normally speak on the last one because...I just don't know. But the body language, the comments after the game, not taking the blame(Even if it's not on you, you don't pass it off on someone else when you're supposed to be the unquestioned leader IMO...then again, Brady acts like a clown as well and he's been to 10 SBs. But when you've only been to 1, shut up, say it ends with me like Matt LaFleur does and sit down). Honestly...the last couple times I've had this little faith we could win a SB at this point in the season was...when we lost Jordy and James Jones was brought back. We had similar issues creating separation. And then maybe 2010 when it seemed like we were a year away given all the injuries. The good news, the 49ers and Buccs are also 3-4. -MAYBE they will actually stick with the plan and not have Bakh practice 3 days in a row(for whatever bizarre reason they had him practice the last 5 or 6 practices in a row the last couple weeks). -They could trade for an impact WRer. Someone like DJ Moore...if he's available or someone else who can beat man coverage. That AND Watson coming back and again, at least being MVS would be nice. I think the defense is mostly alright, they're just on the field so much for long stretches. I know Rodgers said the front office has been in touch with him and discussed some players they're targeting, but...you REALLY need some sort of commitment from him that he's going to be here next year. Love DJ Moore. He could be a big part of this team for the next 5 years. I do NOT love him enough to give up a 1st round pick and roll the dice it's going to end up being a pick in the 20s if Rodgers is going to walk away next year.

I watched this team for YEARS reach for high cieling HS arm after another...just hoping they'd hit on a couple. So many guys I was hopeful would develop. Jones, Rogers, Bradley, Arnett, Jungman, Peralta, Braddock, Parra...go back a bit further and Gold, Neugebauer, Sheets(hit). All guys with ace potential, but never realized it. Whatever they're doing right now in how they evaluate players...just leave it alone. They seem to have changed their ideology offensively(which is going to take a few years to see). Going from more pure toolsy type players like Corey Ray or Monte Harrison to Frelick, Black, Mitchell, Turang...and of course still incorporating those toolsy guys with the upside and questionable hit tools like Weimer, Ward, Gray. They're also turned the Latin American signings and Dominican Summer League teams into real, genuine talent steams rather than hoping, maybe...someone, sometime might develop like Arcia or Peralta(combined 3.8 WAR over ~10 seasons in Milwaukee). I haven't loved everything Stearns has done, but I'm fairly certain you could say the same about any GM. He's done an exceptional job turning this team around and building a sustainable system. And so long as he can keep identifying good pitching and they can keep developing it and he wants to be here, what's the issue? That he might, maybe leave? That applies to any executive.

....you need to read the WHOLE article. Not just decide you're right going into it. This was news to me. Looks like Attanasio's decision to block Stearns the past couple years has served the Brewers well. The Mets seem to be in good hands(hands filled with an apparently endless supply of checks from Cohen, but that's baseball).

Yeah...I did. I had a 4 way parlay. Badgers+the Over+Bama(+21) and the Under. I'd have been more annoyed if Purdue hadn't scored another late TD, but...still...would have been nice.

This is the more important point. Feels like we can rely on Attanasio and his wealth of experience to make the best decision for the organization.

There's also just the fact that Bucks fans are kinda getting spoiled. Years past, we waited for opening night. Now it's just kinda waiting until we get to April before some start paying attention.

There's no need to do anything. A-Do you actually know this is his final year? The Brewers have extended Front Office personnel in the past without anyone knowing about it. Most last year didn't know he was under contract through '23. B-Not having a contract in place doesn't mean he's "gone after the year," just as this POTENTIALLY being his last year didn't mean we needed to do anything last year. This could have very easily been his last year. In fact, if he wasn't concerned with what HE felt was best for the Brewers over the long haul, he could have vastly improved his chances by trading Chourio, Frelick...and others to get this team to the NLCS and add players with the short term in mind. He did the opposite. He was more concerned about this teams long term health than their short term health. So if anything, he's proven he's juuust fine to run this team for another year without acting in anyone's best interest other than the Milwaukee Brewers. There's no reason to not keep Stearns and if this is the last year of his deal, address it at that point. It's possible the Mets job is no longer available given their success this year. Also, you said it's "the time has come to discuss...." You've been discussing it all year.

Yeah, I don't know why they deviated from their plan to not have him practice more than 2 days in a row...and then had him go 5 straight practices after their recent travels(or why they don't give players Toradol shots like even College programs do for inflammation so players can play)...but it still makes no sense to move on from him.

They said the same thing about Moore. I doubt he's not available. Claypool would be a nice addition...certainly a lot easier to manage with the cap, but not sure he can beat man coverage quite like Moore can.

Yeah, that's fair. Wait to trade Burnes and the prospects you get are likely going to be diminished, but you should still be looking at a couple of top 100. Same for Willy and Woody. I still believe they'll push hard to re-sign one of the arms, but as long as they can keep their pitching development group around...even if Stearns leaves, they should be set up just fine. We may look at the prospect lists by the end of next year and see two top 50 pitching prospects(Gasser and Misiorowski wouldn't shock me if he moved up quickly) or if Ashby has established himself as a 3-4 WAR starting pitcher. The talent is certainly there. Or we may need to find them, but we've got the core in place in both the farm system and very valuable assets on the big league club. We should not go through any prolonged rebuild, but we've also been spoiled with Burnes and Woodruff. That said, Burnes

They were better than either of the teams remaining in Sept. The 2019 Nats had on of the worst BPs of anyone in the league in 2019. The 2021 Braves were a beat up team missing their best players. Again, to reiterate, this isn't even about the Brewers(for the...umpteenth time)...this is about how the game is played and the absurdity of saying the team we finished 1 game is SO much better or equipped and that it doesn't matter that we didn't make the playoffs because "we weren't going anywhere." Any gap between the Phillies and the Brewers is negligible. OR, put it this way, the Cardinals, the Braves, the Dodgers and the Mets were all MUUUCH better than the Phillies and the Padres. The gap was MUCH wider between those teams and the Brewers and the Phillies. Those "super teams." The Phills are on the verge of a WS.

He needs NBA minutes. ESPECIALLY in blowouts. I know we're still looking at trades and I'd guess we're trying to build some type of value for Nwora, rebuild Hill's value, but he'd likely be our best on ball defender on the wing(or at least when Jrue's not playing) and his shot looks fine. Obviously he's not a finished product or anywhere near it, but with Middleton and Connaughton out, he should be getting some minutes. Of course...we know Bud would rather have bamboo placed under his finger nails than play rookies. But for the oldest team in the league, it's important to actually develop him.

Agreed. I'm on board with the Friars. I'm gonna HATE the incessant rehashing of the Hader trade, but the Astros have recently won one. I don't particularly care about the cheating as I think other teams were cheating as well(the Dodgers have been accused in the year we lost to them in the NLCS and we've been accused...along with several other teams). Beyond that, imagine rooting for the Yankees for Phillies? I feel like I need a shower just thinking about it.