UpandIn

I believe he was talking about Weeks and Braggs. The guys who you cited as NOT making it...which is why he pointed out that they weren't even in the minors at that point(as opposed to Jr, Soto and Julio Rodriguez). Those guys are...well I wouldn't put Chourio in that group, but Ronald Acuna Jr or a tier or 3 below all time greats(and Julio Rodriguez)...

Ok...so the Tampa game? Then I'd point to the back to back possessions with a chance to take the lead off Jaire INTs where we went 3 and out. I think it's fair...if you want to put him among the greatest QBs of all time. He's gotta do more and passing off the blame it's not cutting it. He can't get almost literally ALL the credit without getting the blame. Certainly more of the blame than you or others seem to be willing to put on him. I also took exception to his comments about...Packers fans who are disappointed are like pigs in ****. They "enjoy" it or some such nonsense that left Pat and Hawk confused. I AM far more willing to deal with the arrogance and the...just nonsense when they're winning than when they're not. I also think his body language IS demonstrably worse this year.

I feel like I said it in my post. "competent" is kinda a silly understatement. Sal Frelick, Garrett Mitchell, Joey Wiemer, Brice Turang, Tyler Black, Jackson Chourio...I'd say they're doing a pretty good job of developing hitters. I didn't say a word about their "ratings." I specifically said "talent." And you went back to a farm system that'd be....16 years old if you're including the farm system going into the 2007 season with Ryan Braun...and that you needed to do that and then come up with these arbitrary measures to quantify them kinda makes my point. I'll take that bet though and we'll work it out in 25 years though...?

I'm relaxed. You claimed I was zeroing on on the last possession of the 49ers game. I'd like to know what possibly gave you that impression?

The Red Sox also got a 20 year old pitching prospect who started in AA for Boston and a 19 year old prospect. That they and Carpenter(who had TJ surgery shortly after being acquired by Boston) didn't ultimately have success doesn't mean the theory is "dumb." It's also not a theory given...it actually happened. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/09/latest-on-david-stearns-contract-status.html Yes...what a dumb..."theory." Edit- The "on a site where prospects are king," line also has me scratching my head. Were you NOT the one who wants Burnes, Woodruff and Adames traded and for the Brewers to model themselves off the Rays and the A's?

Kinda hard to list a trade as a flop when you take the return from that trade and use it to get a guy who puts up a ~1100 OPS the following two years and leads you to within a game of the World Series... The Brewers overhaul of the way they develop pitching, their LA signings...these things don't go into the positive side of the ledger? What the Brewers DO with the prospects isn't considered a success if they don't have success at the big league level regardless of what it brings to the Brewers? If the Matt Arnold trades Corbin Burnes, gets back 4 prospects and then turns those prospects into a Cy Young winning pitcher, I won't really care what those prospects do for another team. You also have arguably the most talented farm system in the last 15 years in Milwaukee under his leadership. The bottom line, Stearns took over a rebuilding team...one that appeared as though it was headed toward a LONG Baltimore like rebuild and they were competitive in year 3 and have been playoff contenders the last 6 years, making the playoffs 4 times and missing out on the post-season in the final week the last two. That and the fact that teams have repeatedly tried(to no avail) to poach Stearns from the Brewers would seem to indicate this is not just Brewers fans having low expectations...

You know this is real life, right? Not Major League? You've now accused of inferred Stearns has worked against the Brewers interests OR would do so in the future in a multitude of ways, the latest, advising a rival what moves to make... Stearns "type of moves" also doesn't make sense. Curtiss is a 29 year old reliever who didn't pitch this year who's on his 8th team. I don't think acquiring cheap BP arms for the minimum is a Stearns move. Vogelbach is on his 6th team in 3 years showing he's ALSO a journeyman and he cost next to nothing to keep. And Escobar was an All-Star switch hitter. None of those are moves that are in any way specific to Stearns of things an MLB GM needs to be "advised" on. They also made a TON of moves that were not Stearns type moves in any way. Lets say your theory IS right though...why in the hell would we just give Stearns AND the Mets what they want for no compensation despite these suspicions that he's been working on behalf of the Mets this past year? C'mon...it'd be laughable and would show poor judgement to hold the line for several years and NOW go, "hey, you guys waited long enough! You want him? He's all yours." You might as well at least get SOME compensation back or make them wait a year. Why make it easier for a team we'll be competing with to get the guy who built OUR team?

Ok...this is wildly moving the goalposts. Your last comment was; I didn't see you make the distinction between President and GM. You said he hadn't been coveted as there'd been "no whisper of anything regarding Arnold." Interviewing for a GM job and then being denied an interview request is not a whisper of anything it's a foghorn. I don't even remember when the Brewers went from their baseball being run by the POBO vs the GM...but I THOUGHT it was with Stearns...a move made to protect against him getting poached.

It means; That's just not what happened and leans into the old, "the Packers haven't spent a 1st on a WRer." There was no "insistence." They've invested HEAVILY in their OL. Bakh being a "crippled mess," isn't really something they "insisted on" when they made him the highest paid LT to protect Rodgers blindside, but of course they once again drafted OL in the 3rd, 4th rounds, they had Nijman coming back, they had a PB OL who's also played LT coming back. They spent a 2nd last year on an OL. So didn't really "insist" on constructing the team without an emphasis on the OL. WRer...again, Rodgers can take the loss of Adams and put that on himself as much as anyone else. If Rodgers hadn't done an about face in the last few years and started talking about retirement, Adams would most likely be here. If they'd have gotten things figured out with Adams earlier, MVS would still be here. Nonetheless, they did trade both 2nd round picks to try and move up into the 1st, then taking Watson in the 2nd as well as Doubs who Rodgers was touting as "different." They made efforts to appease Rodgers by going out and acquiring Cobb. Brought Tonyan back. They gave Jones a big contract to keep their pass catching RB in the fold, used a 2nd on AJ Dillon... So it means I don't think there was any "instance" upon the Packers to build an offense in which they required the top paid back to back MVP QB to be the best in the NFL. There has been an insistence by Rodgers to be the highest paid QB in the NFL...and when you account for the bonus money he got from the last 4 year deal that he would still be on if not for the trade demand and then mix in the new contract he signed, Rodgers needs to own a bit of that. Brady, Brees...they've taken MUCH-MUCH less near the end of their careers so their teams could build around him. Rodgers hasn't done that. So not only does Rodgers bear SOME responsibility for the loss of Adams...but if you're going to demand a restructured contract and then a new record setting extension and hem and haw about retirement causing the best WRer in the NFL to leave and limiting resources, then it's fair you get criticism when your play falls or, no?

I don't think that's actually too big of a stretch. Defense translates pretty easily from the Minors to the Big Leagues. It's obviously nothing like hitting. Mitchell was actually a little disappointing last year going back on balls from the limited time he got, but I expect he'll improve as he gets more comfortable. And you'd have guys flanking him who...are very likely to be GG CALIBER defenders. This would also require them to hit well enough to get on the field and play obviously and I don't know that Wiemer is going to do that by next year, but...we'll see.

I think it was 4, but France and Munoz alone make that trade a huge win already. I'm actually kinda rooting for the Pads to win one in the next 2 years(after the Brewers of course)...because in 3 years, they could easily be in the same situation the Angels are in(with their best players not being nearly as good) and there's a very real chance you could build a playoff caliber team from former Padres prospects. If they were just a little bit more patient...seems like Munoz could have been their closer this year. France seems like a logical trade chip and I don't recall how good of a prospect he was(not that it'd be hard to look it up). So some of the moves make some sense.

Who the hell is zeroing in on the games LAST possession? More like the last...8 or 9 possessions. You're the one saying they've built this team with the requirement that Rodgers must be PERFECT. Well...nah, not really. That defense last year was dominant. They scored 10 points. So that didn't require perfection. The year before, he got 3 picks by his defense, 2 by Jaire in the 2nd half and did what with them? It's not the "dagger point that Rodgers is this huge problem," it's the counterpoint to the "Rodgers has to be PERFECT" argument. Not that he's "THE problem." Talk about a strawman?

"We "insist" on constructing a team that requires him to be the #1 in the NFL?" Really? We're insisting upon that? We don't have Aaron Jones, AJ Dillon, we didn't have Davante Adams who left because he didn't know if Rodgers was going to be here? We're actively TRYING to make things tougher on Rodgers? C'mon...

I don't want to give up Wiemer or Frelick in a trade, obviously not Chourio. Wiemer because we have a lot of hitters who proviles to be high OB guys who put the ball in place, but not a lot of guys who hit for power...even fewer yet who hit for power from the right side and have his combination of tools. I also think he's a bit underrated, particularly using the tool you're using to come to this trade valuation. Taylor and Wiemer have roughly identical values. Taylor is Wiemer's floor...I think. Whereas his upside is .275/.360/.520 with plus defense and 30/30. I'd target one of ATL's catchers. D'Arnaud seems more likely...though he'd be costly as well...Williams Contreras would probably be buying high. I'd be fine running it back with Omar at ~5M for next year. I think he's giong to have a big bounce back year next year.

I think if you extended Adames long term, he'd likely be far more inclined to slide over and play 3rd. 3B should become even more important of a position defensively with the new shift rules. The SS is still going to be playing right behind 2B and the 3B closer to where the SS plays when they're straight up. The problem...while I do think he's more of the 2021 slash line when the BABIP is normalized, position players like Adames tend to get much longer deals. 8 years would be my guess at this point...whereas pitchers are generally a bit shorter. I'd give Willy a f ~5/80, see how it goes(but I'd also offer Burnes and then Woodruff deals first). See how they all turn out. If you could get Burnes, then you let the season playout, see where you're at with the other two. More likely than not, it'd be Woody or Adames...and at least you'd get a massive return for the first two.

I think if you extended Adames long term, he'd likely be far more inclined to slide over and play 3rd. 3B should become even more important of a position defensively with the new shift rules. The SS is still going to be playing right behind 2B and the 3B closer to where the SS plays when they're straight up. The problem...while I do think he's more of the 2021 slash line when the BABIP is normalized, position players like Adames tend to get much longer deals. 8 years would be my guess at this point...whereas pitchers are generally a bit shorter. I'd give Willy a f ~5/80, see how it goes(but I'd also offer Burnes and then Woodruff deals first). See how they all turn out. If you could get Burnes, then you let the season playout, see where you're at with the other two. More likely than not, it'd be Woody or Adames...and at least you'd get a massive return for the first two.

I hadn't heard anything about this, but...it'd probably help if they gave some sort of explanation. I'd guess he was a Captain or they needed some signature for something inane and procedural that they should explain. Honestly, I wouldn't even care if they asked for signatures. Players do it all the time, they swap jersey's. You can have a certain level of respect. Plus, if this was this past week, wouldn't it have been coming after a sound ass-kicking the Buccs were handed? So not much reason to suspect anything.

I can't even remember the list of absolute studs the Padres have traded away during AJ Preller's time, but it'd almost certainly be a comparable team to what they have now for about 100M less and they'd still have a great farm system to supplement their team. Balls of steal are a lot easier when you have another 100M in salary cap spaces and you can package players to dump bad contracts like Hosmer, Myers and others. Trea Turner, Max Fried, Ty France...hell, they had the best reliever in baseball in Emanuel Clase but they choose to trade him.

He literally JUST said today he had his best game of the year(when it was obvious he had several errant throws). That's NOT what he's saying. That's what he said after the 49ers game...a distinction I just made. Alexander was beat by a perfect throw to one of the best(and fastest) WRers in the NFL and was in NEARLY perfect coverage. Ahh...ok. So he's "earned" the right to berate younger players, but by god don't question him...on a Brewers forum with a Packers sub-forum? His teammates came up pretty big last year in the playoffs, no? In fact, our last two seasons ended with him and this offense and repeated 3 and outs with a chance to put away a game or to complete a comeback. So I'd say he's fallen short of perfection. And the situation with the young WRers and relying on them...that's in no small part on Rodgers. The sudden draft day trade demand, the restructured contract, the retirement talk leading to Adams wanting more security...because Rodgers couldn't commit to playing 3 more years. But NONE of the onus of developing young WRers falls on him? OTAs weren't important...fine. Didn't want to play in a pre-season game because "there's no point in playing just a couple of series." Ok, fine. But, in HIS words, he wants to get these guys to playing like they did when they were the "BMOC, that confidence that made them studs in great in College." ******** and berating them? That's the way to do it? Calling out Amari Rodgers for a "drop" on what would have been a circus catch because Rodgers didn't put enough under it, that's the best way to go about it? The WORST thing you can apparently do is question Aaron Rodgers...about anything... I couldn't care less about Brady. He's the QB of a whole different Bay team that I have absolutely no emotional(or financial) investment in. And Rodgers taking ALL of the heat? No, that wouldn't fix anything. Rodgers taking NONE of it this week? Is that fixing any of their issues? One of those guys making critical mistakes...is #12.

No...because it didn't look even remotely similar to what it does right now. He wasn't going on his talk show talking about how HE had his best game of the year, but it's everyone else. He also actually took responsibility last year(at least some). Virtually none this year. You don't see how that's poor leadership? Edit- If you DO require it, other executives and scouts seem to have noticed the same thing. https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/rival_execs_say_aaron_rodgers_body_language_is_worse_than_ever_looks_like_he_doesnt_want_to_be_there/s1_127_38027066

Yeah...you're right. I'm not capable of an independent thought...I can't come to my own conclusion from watching the game, it's from ESPN...something I haven't actually watched since the game, but...sure. Also important that Rodgers point out this past week was HIS highest graded game, so it's really everyone else's fault.

I'd argue deferring 135M that doesn't actually improve this team right now is a...bad idea.

Again...the people laughing at the Mets are doing so without a good reason. In THAT situation, it worked out well. Mets go to a World Series and they end up with David Wright as compensation for the player they got with the savings from the Bonilla deferred compensation. This also isn't even REMOTELY similar to Bobby Bonilla's deal. The Mets had Bobby Bonilla ALREADY on the books. They traded away a nearly 6M dollar contract to go out and add an ace who was the NLCS MVP and pitched them to the World Series. A guy coming off a 22-4 season 2.90 ERA ~6.7 WAR season in which he was a Cy Young runner up. The Brewers are deferring 90M here and they're not getting anything for it. Deferring 90M is more like the Nationals with Scherzer or Strausburg making it make less sense here than Bonilla. In this scenario, the Brewers just blow out the future for no actual upgrade over last year. Why would we do that?

Yeah, it's hard to take this seriously when you continue to refer to the return for Hader as a "bunch of garbage." 2-Players go through REAL **** during the season. Sick kids, family members passing. Again, someone leaving the team to go play in sunny San Diego and getting a guy back from San Diego...that's something PROFESSIONAL athletes need to get over. Hader didn't die, he didn't get sick...he got traded. I don't expect them to be robots. I don't expect them to take months to overcome the trade of a teammate. These aren't children, they're athletes who are paid handsomely to play a game. Josh Hader passing away in a tragic manner as the Angels players have experienced several times? Sure, that absolutely makes sense. Again, he's in San Diego, not dead. 3-The best reliever? We didn't have Clase or Diaz, so we didn't trade the best reliever. We traded a great left handed reliever for a good left handed reliever and then also added a good right handed reliever and then tried to add another. 4-Ask the players? So...moving forward, are the players just gonna vote on what trades are or aren't made? How exactly do you envision that going? 'Hey guys, could you all bring it in for a minute? We've got a trade over here and we're thinking about trading Eric. You guys good with that or?' Tell me what team in baseball does that?

It's just disappointing to hear Rodgers talk after the game and then today on the McAfee show. It's literally everyone else but him. He spent time talking about how guy should have snaps taken away, they need to "crack the whip," and then pointed out how yesterday was his "highest graded game." I don't know how much of the game plan is his or how much of the playbook. We've heard Mercedes Lewis say it was kinda 50/50 with Rodgers keeping in plays he likes or feels comfortable with. Whatever, that's fine. His body language on the field is absolutely terrible, he's taking virtually none of the blame despite numerous low throws or missed throws while also holding WRers to INCREDIBLY high standards(the Amari Rodgers play he called a drop). Rodgers may not be THE problem. The first issue has been OL play. Then WRer play and their youth. But he's also the MVP, face of the franchise, the guy who's supposed to set an example and I don't see that happening.