UpandIn

And it's fully GTD.

Oh thank god. I haven't seen the reports, but I'm assuming you're not just reporting the "Wisconsin Heroics" that makes things up and there's a little more meat to it. Eric Stokes, Gary's health and how he returns and what else they do at edge/DL are all key, but with the pieces we have, old Jimbo fits the players far better. Stokes allowed 50% comp pct last year, 80 this year. Was #1 in press man coverage last year with a grade of ~80 by PFF. Tyson Campbell meanwhile, the GA CB who was expected to go in the 1st(as opposed to Stokes who was projected as a mid 2nd) has really emerged this year. The way Leonhard plays up front, he'll need those two pieces, in place. And I expect Quay will be used as he used Chenel...who on a side note is criminally mis-used in KC in that 4-3...he's a unique player. An elite run stuffer, great speed...great tackler, but not good in pass coverage...while also having the physicality to beat tackles on bull rushes and get to the QB. I'm not a "we need every Badger guy." In fact...there aren't many I think are good fits, but I'd sure love to see if KC would be willing to move off Chenel. Benton could also be a very nice addition(~4th round, maybe slips to 5th). There's also that big SOB from Baylor Siaka Ika who could be a very similar player to Vita Vea. Wanna get the most out of Clark, Wyatt, Quay and Campbell, get a 350 pound, mobile NT who can move the LOS and collapse the pocket. But really, just excited about the prospect of adding Leonhard.

I don't know...they haven't seemed quite as...effusive in their comments. They've left a little window open by saying, "that's an off-season discussion," while also saying, they surely want him back. They ALSO said they'd seen enough from Jordan Love in practice to decide on his 5th year option, that he was a starting QB and it certainly sounded like it was their plan to pick it up. I don't know that we should expect anything one way or the other. I'll just say...Love looked REALLY good. It was not garbage time. He looks different. He looked confident, he stepped in and let it rip. The ball to Jones vs Cover 2 was a throw few QBs can make. He's big, has all the tools. And I'm not getting excited by a stat line in a half vs the Eagles, it's about how he looked. All it means is that the talent is there and his confidence has grown(a lot) from the last time he saw the field vs KC. So if you keep Rodgers 2 more years, you could keep Love, pay them both a LOT of money in '24(more likely restructure Rodgers again, but still, pay Love 20M and probably 25M by that time). The cap is definitely taking a huge jump in '24. Not sure to in '23 though. If you can do it amicably, sit down and just talk to him and say, "we're not going to be able to retain everyone...kinda present it to him as the opportunity to finish his career elsewhere? I think Rodgers is going to play next year. I KNOW Rodgers can still be an elite QB. I think Love can be a very good QB. So the real question...seems to me to be do the Packers think they can get healthy, they can shore up the weaknesses, the defense was more schematic, can they bring back Jones, Amos(we'll know by the 1st day of the league year on a lot of those, especially Amos).

I think Cousins is. He's got that nasty slider. I dislike his cousin very much, but I'm a fan of his. Topa...he seems like one of those guys who could have a Corey Knebel like breakout or be DFA'd any day now. Wasn't his last pitch a fastball that hit him in the foot and forced him to leave the game? It feels like there's a pool of...20+ pitchers who could all play a big role in our pen this year. I don't think that's much of an exaggeration(I'm not even including Williams, Bush, Milner, the more obvious candidates). I like the talent they added. I'd like it a LOT more if they had that one more established late inning reliever. I'd love Aroldis Chapman...as wildly unrealistic as it is. I think he's a guy who's likely to bounce back and...MAYBE you get him on a 1/10 type deal. Still throws in the upper 90s. Not like he's lost his velo. Could earn another big deal. Give us that dominant lefty, last year it was primarily leg injuries that hurt him. And I'd be willing to bet he signs with the Dodger for 1/8M, goes out, puts up a 1.80 FIP and dominates.

They can talk about whatever they want. And I'm sure that'd include a playbook. The Packers obviously aren't going to be filling a tampering complaint in this possible scenario as they'd have literally given written permission for Rodgers to speak with the new team. LOL...I mean, c'mon, the aggrieved team here would be the team literally allowing the contact. Just because the CBA doesn't explicitly state you can legally tamper to speak with the coaches to discuss the scheme, only contracts, doesn't mean it's not legal. Stands to reason it would be, particularly in this scenario when all sides would be in agreement. And he can certainly work out with whatever WRers he wants to. So say it's LV. He can work out with Adams, Renfrow, Waller, Hollins(whoever he'd want) without violating any tampering rules. Of course this is a guy who's talked at length the past couple years about needing to get away from the game. Again, you're talking about missing probably ONE mini-camp(if Rodgers has any plans to show up in the off-season at all for anyone). This was the Raiders schedule last off-season(again, just using the current betting favorite to land Rodgers as an example) so he missed exactly 3 days.; OTA practices – May 23-24, 26, June 1-3 & 13-14 Mandatory minicamp – June 7-9 So he missed exactly 3 days. Packers 2022 season is exhibit 1 for losing the NFL's best WRer, the NFL's best LT not being healthy and in and out of the lineup, the NFL's #1 CB in coverage(overall) dropping off...I really don't think Rodgers not showing up for the off-season had anything to do with that. Jimmy G couldn't throw all off-season and the 49ers seemed to be doing just fine with him(until he broke his foot). It's NOT because Rodgers didn't show up until camp. How about Packers 2021? Yeah...BRETT FAVRE!!! The last time a situation like this played out. He wasn't traded until August. Baker Mayfield this past off-season...I'm sure there are a lot more, but I don't have an exact memory of when QBs in the past have been traded. I can also think of teams who WANTED to trade for QBs after June 1st...like two years ago when teams wanted Aaron Rodgers and trade rumors persisted well into June through July that he'd be traded. So teams were certainly willing to do it and they were willing to give the Packers a bounty. The rumored price then was 3 1sts and 3 day 2 picks. It's probably going to be a 1st this year. There's also a whole list of things that have never happened in the past 1 or so with regard to QBs being traded around the league that I could write about at length like Jimmy G taking a pay-cut, not working out or even being ABLE to throw a ball all off-season, coming back, having an outstanding season and then going down. The Browns traded for a QB, gave him the largest GTD contract EVER, 230M...and they were under the impression he wouldn't be available for half of the season, if not the whole season. When has that ever happened? I don't know what the Packers plan on doing next year...but the one thing I'm reasonably confident of...IF the Packers choose to trade him, another team that wants him isn't going to pass because he can't be there until June 1st and "learn the offense." Rodgers may not want to do that. He may be the issue there, but I sincerely doubt that will stop anyone from pursuing him IF they can come to an agreement with the Packers before the trade.

No...not really. I can imagine Rassmussen working out of the pen for the Brewers, MAYBE becoming a swing man. Can you imagine the Brewers winning the division in 2021 or being competitive in '22 or trying to be in '23 without Adames? Loved Rassmussen and was rooting for him during his long, arduous comeback. But he'd thrown ~115 innings in professional baseball and it seems like they sold him for about as much as they could have getting back a 25 year old SS who put up more WAR this past year than Rassmussen has in his entire career thus far. Also, Rasssmussen is primarily a 2 pitch pitcher who throws 5 innings. VERY valuable. Less valuable as a reliever(how we'd have used him) than an elite defensive SS who's put up a 122 OPS+ the past two years...and it doesn't feel particularly close. Sometimes things just works out for both sides. The Rays saw Rassmussen as a starter despite the TJ, subsequent TJ, then the 3rd surgery and thought he was worth the risk. The Brewers...who were scuffling, saw a team with a former top 20 prospect who could not hit well at the Trop and they had depth in their rotation. I'd love to have him as our 8th inning reliever. Not sure how much value that would have had without Adames though.

Or Phil Bickford or Corey Knebel or...I feel like there's another one we're missing. But the shoulder injury makes Nelson a good comp. Then again, Nelson was on his way to becoming a workhorse TOR type pitcher when he was injured.

And he had a .162 BABIP with RISP. You can make some stats say whatever you want. His slash line the last two months tells you he was anything but horrible over that period of time. And we should all be cognizant of how bad the eye test can be. I'd say the 6.2 WAR the last two seasons proves he...can and is that mainstay and strong contributor he looked like...just not at SS where we upgraded. Urias 2021-22 269 Games 6.2 WAR Turner 2021-22 279 Games 5.6 WAR I think one problem with Brewers fans is that we're so fixated on our own teams(understandably so) that we're ignoring offense around MLB. Offense was down everywhere, not just Milwaukee. Urias has been a very solid player. Unless you can acquire a player like Devers(which...the cost would be astronomical) I don't see a big upgrade. I think the best lineup would be Adames at 3B, Turang at SS and Urias at 2B, but...short of that, I don't know that we're going to get significantly better at 3B. The most obvious area's to improve this team would be the BP or a RHH 1B/DH/RF named Myers...if he could be had for a 1/8.5M type deal. And that's probably a little light. I would absolutely sign Justin Turner if he'd sign for a reasonable deal. But I also think he's a Dodger for life. As an aside, I really don't get what the Dodgers are doing. I get they want to reset the luxury tax, but they generate insane revenue and they haven't really been in on any of the top FAs. Again they've watched an elite SS leave.

I think you need to be on the OD roster get draft compensation. It's pretty hard to work all this nonsense out the CBA wasn't completed until they decided on the international draft and that factored into it in the original CBA, but...long story short, gotta be on the OD. Though you still get a full service year if you're in the top 3. So the Os don't get one. The Mariners I believe do and I don't think anyone else does. Not the Braves for Harris(top 100) or Strider(OD but not top 100...in fact, not top 20 on the Braves own just a year earlier). The O's don't get one for Adley because he wasn't there OD. This system needs some tweaks.

Maybe, but do they really place that much importance on HRs? He wasn't exactly Barry Bonds(size 8 3/4ths head size version) prior to 2021 when he was on the top 100. I think it's really just because...he's kinda boring. He was one of those guys who was projected as high as the top 5 at one point(seems like there are about 40 of them each year). He fell, mainly because he was just not spectacular, then the Brewers drafted him and he continued to be very young and solid at each level. So given how low he was, it was probably more just different players having breakouts, or the early picks. But if there's any year he deserves to be in the lower end of the top 100, it's coming off a .770+ OPS as a 22 year old who moved all over playing elite Defense and who got better the 2nd half of the year. I really don't think Wiemer should drop. He continued producing and had a really outstanding run at AAA. I'm not sure people appreciate his upside enough. Or maybe it's just the range out outcomes he's got. He could be a superstar or he could be a...Keon Broxton type. I really think we've got 3-4+ guys who should be top 100. The three who are, Turang, then Mitchell, Black and Quero could all be in that next group with Misiorowski a guy who could move VERY quickly and hit that top 100. I also think it's really just stupid how much importance these 100 lists play. Avina isn't even on our top 30 prospects on MLB.com. You could pretty easily argue he's a top 10 prospect in the system...but not even top 30. Really hope they go after pitching hard as they seem to be stacked with position players. Very underrated position prospects.

I don't really get what happened that caused him to fall off. He was on it...then as a 21 year old SS with plus defense in AAA hit like...what, ~.250/.380? Very little power, but speed an D at the 2nd most important position defensively. Hopefully his power surge at the end of last year puts him on some lists and...who knows.

You mean if he's capable of doing the thing that he...just did last year? Just maybe they should...and this is a CRAZY idea, I get it, I'm way out on a ledge here...but maybe they should see if he can on a regular basis? I know it's in direct contrast to the "put your player in the situations he's less likely to succeed" ethos, but...just might make sense going against the grain on this one.

I think this is a little reach. If he was just crushing it in the Dominican league, would you feel differently? It's just 90 ABs. I still like him and I hope he ends up back in the system. Still coming off a solid season in AAA for a 23 year old catcher, but easy to see why they let him go with Quero coming up behind him and Contreras on the roster.

Right...his arm isn't slipping. Give him an OL and skill players and he may well have another MVP type season. Which...is one of the reasons why I don't know if the Packers trade him. But I don't think he's dropped off from last year, I think he's been hurt and the talent has. And it looks like it's ticking up a bit.

Myers makes a LOT of sense. Turner of course does as well, but I see him back in LA on a ~8M deal. I suspect it'd take substantially more to get him to leave LA. I believe the Brewers could still add ~20M to the payroll this year(not a 20M a year type deal, 20 this year) give or take. More perhaps if it was a true difference maker and not just a nice sell to the fans like McCutchen. If they do or not...I don't care. They've already added an AS Catcher for nothing(in terms of money, Ruiz had value to us obviously). I also like May or Fulmer. Or Lugo any can be had in the 6-8M range.

Ok, well, we limited him to that and that was likely because we had Wong. That would seem like it may have been our mistake. Vs lefties, he should be out there at 1B(where he's a good defender and certainly has the frame) or 2B...where he's actually logged the most innings in Tampa. And you're right, that doesn't say a whole lot being the 2nd best...but it does say he's still the 2nd best unless the Brewers continue to add RHed hitters who can hit lefties. I mean, if they push Brosseau out, that's great. I just don't see Miller or any of the moves we've made doing that. I actually hope he gets more starts this year at 1B also. If Turang can hit lefties or stay in there vs them, that'd be our best IF defense vs LHPing without sacrificing much any offense. But they did just play him at 3B last year and I'm not entirely sure why that is(3 games at 1B, but I don't recall the circumstances surrounding those). So they probably need to make better use of him.

Yeah...that's how I remember it. Protection against Cain. He also didn't cost 12M in yr 1. He made 3.5M dollars that season. So he absolutely did NOT stop us from signing anyone. Also, what is this thread about? We traded nothing for an extra minor league player who may or may not play on the Brewers this year...a DAY after trading Ruiz(part of the Hader trade that was brought up) for a 24 year old AS catcher. I'm kinda amazing what people complain about. This reminds me of the Blake Perkins thread. Y'all know just because we trade for a player...as long as we're NOT trading "non-elite" type prospects like Sal Frelick, Brice Turang, or Garrett Mitchell, it's basically just taking a flier on a guy. I don't see why these types of depth moves are met with such vitriol? So the Brewers haven't spent. I don't count the off-season as a success or a failure based on total dollars spent. We've added Winker and Contreras. Winker was the 3rd best hitter vs RHPing in all of baseball two years ago. Contreras was one of the best offensive catchers in the game last year. Still don't like the Renfroe trade...but it's also December 14th. Why are we so mad again? I need to be reminded.

So you would have been happy trading a top 50(the elite variety) prospect who hit .365/.435/.508 for a guy with a 78 OPS+...after the fact, but anyone could have seen JBJ regression...despite being one of the most consistent players in baseball the previous 6 years? Man...imagine how well we could draft by picking out the players we should have acquired or not acquired a year or two later? Also...did you just compare CC Sabathia to...the likes of Jorge Soler?

JBJ had been worth ~18 WAR in the previous 6 seasons. Not one season below 2.0. 2.0 WAR in 2020 in 55 games. Yeah, a lot of people were happy about that and Red Sox fans were not among them.

He's played quite a bit of 2nd and has been +1 OAA or 0 for his career. He can also play 1st which could the whole IF defense. Also, while that wasn't a great OPS vs LPH that was our 2nd highest OPS vs lefties...IIRC. Renfroe being our highest. And his career line is ~.830, so seems like a safe bet he'll be at worst that next year. For a guy who can play an at least passable 1B/2B/3B...and even fill in at SS if needed...AND he's cheap? Seems like with our current roster, he should be a no-brainer. Hiura, I'd love to see him back, but it's gotten hard to justify. I think he's included as a throw in, or he gets camp to see if he can earn a spot(though at this point, he's guaranteed 2M, so I don't know what they'll do with him). Anyway, now we've got Contreras who hit over 1.000 vs lefties, but I wouldn't expect him to hit quite THAT well. It's still a pretty big weakness. That and the backend of our pen...which we seem to be kinda collecting power arms and hoping someone jumps out(not an unreasonable approach IMO).

I really hope not. I don't see a good reason to get rid of Brooseau. His ability to hit lefties is huge.

Range Factor while in the minors? That's what we're using to determine who's a CFer and who's not? So if Frelick payed behind pitchers who racked up more strikeouts...he's not as good in the field? Frelick was a DPOY in the ACC in CF. He's been a CFer coming up. Ruiz was a 2B. The only real reason so far to believe Ruiz can be a plus CFer is...he's really fast. 80 speed vs 70 speed. One has to develop as a CFer and the other doesn't...according to the scouts. I've never seen Ruiz play CF, so I don't know how good he is. I do know how many times he caught a ball in a small sample size in the minors and how many times he threw people out? That's not gonna tell ya much.

Yeah...but it really does. A player switching teams in and of itself doesn't mean anything other than...they've switched teams. Max Scherzer has been on 3 teams in his last 3 years. Is there literally ANY meaning in that? It's just a bad and kinda lazy argument. It's the same one he used with Renfroe. He just changes the number of teams and or years and that's his entire argument. Or how about Riuz? He's now on his 3rd organization in just a few months. Obviously if he was any good...he wouldn't be traded Lots of players change teams for a lot of reasons. Team control, number of options. Small market teams sign players hoping they'll have a good season so they can flip them. If that's the extent of your argument as to why a player isn't good...it's not a good argument.

It's not tampering if the Packers are allowing it. This has happened numerous times before, usually just giving a team a window for negotiations, but where they allow an Agent or player to speak with another team. So they wouldn't have to worry about tampering. And the new team could like for him to show up more. I'm pretty sure the Packers would have liked that. But that wouldn't be possible. And who said the SB team would "lounge around in the offseason and expect to suddenly turn it on in 4 weeks?" You think just because Rodgers wouldn't get there until June 1st the rest of the team would just be sitting by the pool? And it'd be quite a bit more than 4 weeks. He'd basically be missing the month of May and ONE OTA. The Packers 2021 OTAs started May 23rd, May 30th and June 13th. So you're saying a team that wants Rodgers is going to pass on him because he'd miss 1 and MAYBE two OTAs(depending on the schedule) and be there in time for the mini-camps? Packers 2022 season is absolutely NOT exhibit 1 of anything. This suggests that if only Rodgers had shown up and worked with OTAs the Packers season would have gone entirely differently. Would Watson have caught that 1st pass? Would he have been healthy rather than in and out of the lineup? Would the defense have been better? Holding up this past off-season as exhibit 1 of why a team can't win a Super Bowl with a QB missing OTAs is...an enormous reach. I don't think the Packers were just a few more reps with the WRers was the difference in literally anything. Not only is Rodgers on a pretty strict pitch count in the off-season(And even early into camp)...you've got 2 a days for a couple weeks and then an 18 weeks during the season. You're placing a silly level of importance on what amounts to like...6 team practices. We'll see though. I don't think a team that wants Aaron Rodgers is going to say, "well, if we can't have him until June 1st, we're gonna stick with...Ryan Tannehill or Derek Carr. And this also ignores the fact that about half the teams in the NFL run the same offense. So if for instance the Jets...who look pretty damn good. Same offense. Rams, 49ers, Vikings, Broncos...Bears, Bengals, Dolphins, Jets among others I can't think of off the top of my head. I don't have any clue if the Packers are going to trade Aaron Rodgers. I feel pretty confident the June 1st timeline is not going to stop the teams that want him from pursuing him.

And...again, that he's just here to annoy people. LOL...I mean, c'mon. We got a trade that's not only gotten universal praise by people who know Baseball and...pretty much everyone on this forum except for...ONE person. And again, this, "well he's been on X number of teams in X years," is...the dumbest logic. Who cares? Look at how a guy produces. If 5 teams acquired him, 5 teams wanted him. It's like taking a date to a 5 star restaurant, going to see a great show on show/movie/play, whatever...and then you ask for their opinion and they complain that the Uber took the long way home. THAT'S their takeaway. Some people just focus on the negatives...