UpandIn

Why does "everyone" on this board act like "everyone" makes these statements that aren't remotely true? The overwhelming majority of the Burnes/Woodruff discussion has been centered around IF either would sign for comparable deals. Woodruff->Luis Castillo and Burnes in the deGrom 5/135 range. Who has said that it's just up to the Brewers if players sign extensions? In fact I'd guess the majority of people have said it's unlikely either would sign an extension at this point. Same with Abreu. We know three things now about Abreu with regard to free agency. His preference was to stay in Chicago. He is "a top priority for the Padres." And he wants to continue to play 1B. I don't know how the numbers work out to 1% chance that he signs with the Brewers or what that's based off, but it's kinda silly. Maybe "everyone" should just stop speaking for "everyone?"

Right...but is anyone assuming he makes the ML roster?

If you wait until they actually do it, it's not really a prediction or projection so much as an observation.

That's where Frelick should be huge for the Brewers. I just don't know what they're going to do to add right handed bats. Everyone keeps saying you can replace what Renfroe gave you by putting Frelick in there, but you can't. The power and...again, the ability to hit lefties is a big loss. We'll see where they end up, but that seemed like a very reasonable 1 year deal bridging the gap until Wiemer was ready. And I don't buy that because his chase rate was up from 33% to 34%, that's some indicator of things to come(especially as the point was made that his chase rate from '21 and '22 going up and the age of 31 being key indicators). It's a marginal tick up. Same with the BA with RISP. Yeah, you need to get guys who can put the ball in place, take an extra base, all those things. You could have added those things without getting rid of Renfroe. But until we see what this lineup looks like to start next year, I won't worry about it too much. But we're certainly not looking great at THIS moment. Expecting Wiemer to step in and replace what Renfroe did is asking a lot. I think Frelick as a whole can more than replace Renfroe, he was coming up either way. So again, I'll just wait and see how this off-season goes.

That's where Frelick should be huge for the Brewers. I just don't know what they're going to do to add right handed bats. Everyone keeps saying you can replace what Renfroe gave you by putting Frelick in there, but you can't. The power and...again, the ability to hit lefties is a big loss. We'll see where they end up, but that seemed like a very reasonable 1 year deal bridging the gap until Wiemer was ready. And I don't buy that because his chase rate was up from 33% to 34%, that's some indicator of things to come(especially as the point was made that his chase rate from '21 and '22 going up and the age of 31 being key indicators). It's a marginal tick up. Same with the BA with RISP. Yeah, you need to get guys who can put the ball in place, take an extra base, all those things. You could have added those things without getting rid of Renfroe. But until we see what this lineup looks like to start next year, I won't worry about it too much. But we're certainly not looking great at THIS moment. Expecting Wiemer to step in and replace what Renfroe did is asking a lot. I think Frelick as a whole can more than replace Renfroe, he was coming up either way. So again, I'll just wait and see how this off-season goes.

People keep stating this unequivocally. He may not be. He's on the 40 man roster. He hits righties. He's going to be in big league camp. It's hardly a stretch to see him breaking camp with the ML team...particularly as it would not look like Frelick, Yelich and Mitchell are in line for a LOT of playing time. Taylor is likely a lock to make it and then it'll come down to how ready they think Wiemer is and how this kid does in Spring Training, what they may do with a guy like Ruiz and who, if anyone else they acquire to play the OF. But at the moment, we're looking VERY weak vs righties and that just happens to be where he has excelled at the last two years. This was a signing that cost almost nothing. It won't be his fault if we lose Cam Devanney in the Rule5, they already made that call. He could be on another team by April, the 26 man or AAA. I sincerely doubt Chourio is going to force the issue in 2023. I'll be happy if he spends most the year in AA and he's healthy. He's an absolute stud...for a 18 year old kid who played at HiA this year, but it's premature to start talking about a place on the roster for him at this point. Wiemer is obviously a reasonable candidate. Wouldn't shock me to see him put up a 5 WAR season playing elite RF, stealing bases and if he gets hot, even putting up a .270/.350/.500 line. I could also see him being Jared Kelenic. I don't care if a guy strikes out 30% of the time if he's making loud contact and taking pitches...but Wiemer is also a guy who's up and down, has only 40 games at AAA. But of course, he could force the issue and take that RF spot and make the Brewers look brilliant.

Is that what they settled on? That makes more sense as Khris Bryant in particular was the type of situation they were attempting to remedy...making a player like that a FA a year earlier, but I've found contradictory statements. I'd nix the top 100 ranking and keep the full season credit. It really is nonsense that Brice Turang cannot net the Brewers a comp pick based on such an arbitrary set of rankings...and one that he's appeared on before. At least as of now. He may make one of the...three lists they go off. MLB, BA and...ESPN. That's an absolute joke. We may be subjected to the whims of Keith Law when determining who gets an extra draft pick and another...million plus in the bonus pool. Awesome. A guy who's so humble and willing to admit he's wrong... They also lose that year no matter what...So if you DID wait to bring Wiemer up(for example as he's one of the two players who'll be on top 100 lists that have any shot of getting called up next year) you could wait until June, he could have a Ryan Braun like rookie year and you both lose time AND you don't get a comp pick. That's kinda stupid. Give him the year of service time, but leaving Wiemer down in AAA isn't necessarily manipulating service time. Leaving Frelick down would be. So if I'm reading this right, both Burnes and Woodruff would have qualified for a PPI pick...but as you can get just the one, we'd have gotten one for Burnes while just missing out in 2020 and this past year. As an aside, it's nice watching two Cards cast offs finish 1st and 5th in Cy Young voting for different teams.

I get what you're saying...I'm thinking the fact that Beauchamp is now on the Heard and that's before we get Middleton back, the Bucks don't see him as being a rotational player in the post-season(at least as of now). I thought he'd played well enough that he'd earned 15-20 MPG with Middleton and Ingles out, but...they clearly see it differently. Definitely not against getting Crowder. He'd make this team a lot more versatile, I just thought the argument that we'll be able to do better at the deadline(whoever originally made it, I don't remember) was persuasive. Don't remember where it comes from, but it was a talking head that I actually respect. I also just can't wait to see Ingles. See HOW the hell he's a good defender. It has to be as a smart, help defender. His nickname was slow Joe BEFORE the torn ACL. Oh, and Carter is definitely not a great matchup on Tatum or Brown. They'll be able to shoot over him. But at least he'll bother them and stay in front of them better than Hill did last year. It's kinda like...Jrue on KD. If KD is on, as good as Jrue is, there's only so much he can do.

Perkins crushes Left Handed hitters whereas Mitchell doesn't. So he could slide into a platoon role IF he has a good ST'ing and they want to start the year with a couple of these OFers in AAA. 2022- .310/.406/.483 2021- .298/.412/.478 He's hit righties very poorly. So he fits with Frelick/Mitchell/Yelich...maybe buys them some time. Or maybe he's off the roster by January and they make a bunch of other moves. I don't know, at the moment, seems like a fine deal.

I don't disagree with what Brewcrew82 has said in this thread...but I'm also not sure how Perkins shows they're going for a different style of ball? He's a good athlete, walks a lot but strikes out and his hit tool is clearly his biggest hole in his game. He's a ~.245-250 hitter at the higher levels. We've clearly trying to get guys who can manufacture runs, use their speed, they make contact more. What I do like about him is that he crushes lefties. Which...as of now, we BADLY need.

Do they have to be on the OD roster though? They just have to be ranked in the top 100(so no chance for Turang...which makes it REALLY stupid IMO) and that's it...I think.

I would definitely improve the defense. I'm not that worried about Beauchamp getting the calls in the playoffs. He's a pretty disciplined defender(or I don't think Bud would be playing him). The concern there has to be that while he's looked better offensively than I think many projected...ideally you'd want someone who offers a little more on the offensive end. Carter is too small, but he's also so physical and so strong, he could at least present more of a challenge to Tatum than we could last year. Quick hands, he can get up into him...just bother him, annoy him like a Pat Bev(or a smaller PJ Tucker...which is what I think he is defensively). My issue is that you also have to include Ingles into that mix. He's a 6'8 wing who has never been an athlete, but always put up good advanced defensive metrics. And again, I just think you'll find a better fit. Crowder is really more of a 4 who can defend smaller players, but he's best defensing a Giannis or LeBron type on the block. I think we're pretty well set there. We've only got enough ammo to make one trade without dealing anyone from our core, so I just think we should wait. BUT, Crowder would make the defense much better and I take your point about Carter's size and Beauchamp's...youth. The Kings may be a team that's worth keeping an eye on. Harrison Barnes is someone reportedly looking to trade. I think he might be a better fit AND a player they could maaaybe extend? They want to make room for Keegan Murray, Terrance Davis and some of their younger/core players. He doesn't provide the physical play, but he's got the length and the scoring ability. Hopefully we get a few weeks of Ingles before the deadline. And if not...there's always the buyout market...which looks to be stronger this year than it normally is.

Crowder is a really nice player and would have been a really good fit early last year when we lost Tucker, but with Carter, Beauchamp, Ingles all coming back, Serge looks like he's moving much better(even Hill looks like he's healthy and moving better...even if that's not translating into actually hitting his shots). I'd rather wait for the deadline when I think there will be teams looking to dump a salary and take back a young player like Nwora, who has some upside, Hill, who is on an expiring and Allen who is on a very team friendly deal. Crowder definitely fits the bill as someone who can help defend and switch seamlessly, but I think we addressed that when we added Beauchamp and Carter to a degree and I really like the D at the moment. Two guys in the backcourt who can defend, Marjon can defend multiple positions. Middleton is a solid defender. It was a great fit, I just...again, think at the deadline there will be better players available.

Right...and again, to be clear, I wasn't actually suggesting I thought that deal would get it done. I guess it's possible as every team has their own scouting reports, but I'd think they could get better value and players who offer more immediate returns and certainty at the big league level as they look like they're a legitimate contender as of now.

Right...and again, to be clear, I wasn't actually suggesting I thought that deal would get it done. I guess it's possible as every team has their own scouting reports, but I'd think they could get better value and players who offer more immediate returns and certainty at the big league level as they look like they're a legitimate contender as of now.

I didn't say he was a "throw in" type player, I said I'd throw him into that deal as A-He fits what Toronto needs(they went out and got JBJ to get a left handed hitting CFer last year) and Lauer for Kirk is SOOO far away from being worth it for Toronto, it's not even funny. I don't think it'll matter though as I don't think the Blue Jays would seriously entertain Lauer, Mitchell and Wong for Kirk. They'd almost certainly want Frelick and even at that point, I don't know if they make that deal for Kirk and they definitely don't for Moreno.

I didn't say he was a "throw in" type player, I said I'd throw him into that deal as A-He fits what Toronto needs(they went out and got JBJ to get a left handed hitting CFer last year) and Lauer for Kirk is SOOO far away from being worth it for Toronto, it's not even funny. I don't think it'll matter though as I don't think the Blue Jays would seriously entertain Lauer, Mitchell and Wong for Kirk. They'd almost certainly want Frelick and even at that point, I don't know if they make that deal for Kirk and they definitely don't for Moreno.

Agreed...though I sure as hell wouldn't give a 2nd thought about dealing him for Kirk. I'd throw in Mitchell and Wong. Fill two more needs for the Jays, left handed bat and another good defensive OFer and a 2B. Right now, they've got 9 RHed hitters in their lineup. Moreno is ready to play right now. So they've got 3 catchers. I don't think any are getting dealt for that particular package save for maybe Jansen. Could solve the catching problem and our issues vs lefties. And, again, assuming it's Jansen as the other two seem just that much more valuable with their service time...even if Kirk is less than ideal as an everyday catch, it'd be a good bridge to Quero. Quero should start in HiA I'd guess...given the limited # of at bats. Gives him 2 years to be our primary catcher. It's a stretch, but if we're going to deal Lauer, it should be part of a package for a significant upgrade.

Agreed...though I sure as hell wouldn't give a 2nd thought about dealing him for Kirk. I'd throw in Mitchell and Wong. Fill two more needs for the Jays, left handed bat and another good defensive OFer and a 2B. Right now, they've got 9 RHed hitters in their lineup. Moreno is ready to play right now. So they've got 3 catchers. I don't think any are getting dealt for that particular package save for maybe Jansen. Could solve the catching problem and our issues vs lefties. And, again, assuming it's Jansen as the other two seem just that much more valuable with their service time...even if Kirk is less than ideal as an everyday catch, it'd be a good bridge to Quero. Quero should start in HiA I'd guess...given the limited # of at bats. Gives him 2 years to be our primary catcher. It's a stretch, but if we're going to deal Lauer, it should be part of a package for a significant upgrade.

Right. I don't believe they will non-tender him. You do. To recap this discussion, YOU listed the players we'd be "losing," I then said we wouldn't be losing them for nothing IF we did. Just...a hypothetical, from a Twins message board; So...basically, a AA reliever and a MLB reliever with a upper 90s fastball. Again, I don't see the Brewers dumping their best hitter from last year so they can go with 3 rookies and Yelich in the OF... 3.47 ERA and an ERA+ of 107 and 130 the past two years(with nearly a quarter of his Earned runs coming in two starts inflated even those numbers this year). That seems like a BIT more than a "back of the rotation, innings eater. Nothing more." That's definitely something...more than that. Again, you came up with the scenario in which the only way the Brewers could afford Abreu was this cataclysmic event in which we had to rid ourself of these players who...apparently don't have a whole lot of value in your opinion. Am I the only one who thinks that? Doesn't seem like I'm "the only person on the planet" who thinks the Brewers COULD sign Abreu given there is additional TV revenue coming in this year that more than makes up for it. OR they could still deal Wong as I've suggested since Turang is ready in AAA. I guess I'll just have to take your word for it that I'm the ONLY one in the world in a year with increasing revenue and Mark Attanasio saying they'll be "very active" this off-season while talking about building around the core of this team! Now, lets circle back; I guess if you don't think they should even bother to tender Renfroe and that Lauer is "Nothing more" than an innings eater, the answer would then be pretty obvious. YEAH. Abreu would most definitely be worth the upgrade. In particular, his ability to hit left handed pitching and the 137 WRC+. Feels like you kinda answered your own question here! Just needed to work it out I guess?

Right. I don't believe they will non-tender him. You do. To recap this discussion, YOU listed the players we'd be "losing," I then said we wouldn't be losing them for nothing IF we did. Just...a hypothetical, from a Twins message board; So...basically, a AA reliever and a MLB reliever with a upper 90s fastball. Again, I don't see the Brewers dumping their best hitter from last year so they can go with 3 rookies and Yelich in the OF... 3.47 ERA and an ERA+ of 107 and 130 the past two years(with nearly a quarter of his Earned runs coming in two starts inflated even those numbers this year). That seems like a BIT more than a "back of the rotation, innings eater. Nothing more." That's definitely something...more than that. Again, you came up with the scenario in which the only way the Brewers could afford Abreu was this cataclysmic event in which we had to rid ourself of these players who...apparently don't have a whole lot of value in your opinion. Am I the only one who thinks that? Doesn't seem like I'm "the only person on the planet" who thinks the Brewers COULD sign Abreu given there is additional TV revenue coming in this year that more than makes up for it. OR they could still deal Wong as I've suggested since Turang is ready in AAA. I guess I'll just have to take your word for it that I'm the ONLY one in the world in a year with increasing revenue and Mark Attanasio saying they'll be "very active" this off-season while talking about building around the core of this team! Now, lets circle back; I guess if you don't think they should even bother to tender Renfroe and that Lauer is "Nothing more" than an innings eater, the answer would then be pretty obvious. YEAH. Abreu would most definitely be worth the upgrade. In particular, his ability to hit left handed pitching and the 137 WRC+. Feels like you kinda answered your own question here! Just needed to work it out I guess?

None of us here are actually making any of these calls, so I don't know if "we" are planning on going into the season with Urias at 3B, but the top 3B on the FA market...is Jace Peterson. Who is the 3B we should be talking about? You want a catcher...cool. I'd gladly take Contreras as a FA. I don't think that's going to happen. So no 3B, SS is set. Wong or maybe Segura are the top 2B. Catcher is a possible position to upgrade. OR a 1B who just happens to fit into the lineup about as perfectly as possible. A guy who hits for a high average and crushes left handed pitching?

None of us here are actually making any of these calls, so I don't know if "we" are planning on going into the season with Urias at 3B, but the top 3B on the FA market...is Jace Peterson. Who is the 3B we should be talking about? You want a catcher...cool. I'd gladly take Contreras as a FA. I don't think that's going to happen. So no 3B, SS is set. Wong or maybe Segura are the top 2B. Catcher is a possible position to upgrade. OR a 1B who just happens to fit into the lineup about as perfectly as possible. A guy who hits for a high average and crushes left handed pitching?

Yeah, you really didn't though. In your world, Renfroe is getting non-tendered either way. So...how does his loss factor in? Lauer? It was laughable to call him a #3, right? So now it's a #4/5? I don't know what's NOT laughable to you. But a back of the rotation pitcher(per you) and Tellez vs Abreu. This is a circular argument as you're the one who made the claim they absolutely HAD to get rid of those players in order to add ABREU...so it started with your faulty premise, then I pointed out IF they did trade those players, they'd get talent back for them...and it seemingly went over your head.

Yeah, you really didn't though. In your world, Renfroe is getting non-tendered either way. So...how does his loss factor in? Lauer? It was laughable to call him a #3, right? So now it's a #4/5? I don't know what's NOT laughable to you. But a back of the rotation pitcher(per you) and Tellez vs Abreu. This is a circular argument as you're the one who made the claim they absolutely HAD to get rid of those players in order to add ABREU...so it started with your faulty premise, then I pointed out IF they did trade those players, they'd get talent back for them...and it seemingly went over your head.