BrewerFan

Just curious what the thoughts on Misiorowski are on here. I remember last year...particularly when the Future Stars game performance went viral, there were a lot of people clamoring for him to be in Milwaukee. I've seen him mentioned as option to be a starter for the Brewers this year. Not one of the top 5-6, but high enough on the list that he'd likely make the start. I look at Misiorowski and it's impossible to miss the ridiculous upside. I could EASILY see him having a Uribe-like impact this year, BUT, is that the best use of a pitcher with his talent? He has a FB that seems to be high effort, but he's been able to maintain it deeper into starts(the few starts he went deep in). He's got a slider that is unhittable when he locates it and then another pitcher...I can't even tell what it is. A power curve maybe? One breaking ball at ~92, one at ~86 or so. And then a changeup that looks like he could become a weapon. The issue is if the Brewers use him out of the pen too early, he may end up like Hader and just stay there as a dominant multi-inning reliever. And while I'd never suggest Hader was a failure in anyway, he was a dominant reliever, he was similar in that he was a bit erratic, but his stuff was overpowering enough that he could get by in the pen, but needed to develop more in the rotation. I'd like to see him start the year in AA as a starter, try and get him to work deeper into games, work on his command, and not add him to the 40 or call him up just because he's the best reliever available, but allow him to develop, hopefully into our next TOR arm. Our next Burnes/Woodruff. Maybe a deGrom-lite. I'd be completely fine not seeing him in 2024 and waiting until 2025 to break in, or if we made the playoffs, get 3-4 innings as Burnes and Woodruff did. I'm seeing a lot of #3/4 type arms coming up, some guys who are too far away yet. And then Peralta(a #2/3), Ashby a complete question mark, but TOR-type stuff. What would everyone else like to see from Misiorowski? Bring him up this year if he's one of our best 7 relievers...or roll the dice a bit, put more inninggs on his arm(which comes with risk), and try and develop him as a starter?

Right. At best, he could keep the velo at ~96, use the Brewers to refine his pitchers. Just from a lazy glance at Fangraphs, his 96-97 MPH sinker(assuming the 3MPH hike is true) and his SL are his two best pitchers. You can get through a lineup twice with just two pitchers. I think 25 starts a 3.40 ERA and 120IP is the upside here(maybe a bit better, but that seems greedy). More likely, he gets 7-10 starts and then throws out of the pen as a long man and carries an ERA of ~4 Worst case, we wasted 1.75M. There are FAR bigger downsides. I'd probably lean toward option #2, but who ever knows.

I knew their Son(more through a friend of mine). He went to College with an old coach and friend. Only met them briefly, but the Mom seemed....pretty normal given their finances. Not sure it's going to have a significant impact on the Brewers payroll or finances, but one can hope. Now, my Uncle knew John Menard...as a VERY early customer back in the...60s IIRC up in Eau Claire. Hopefully my 3 degrees of knowing rich people will pay off and the Menard family will get into Baseball! Buy those Brewers!

I'm not talking about oWAR and how Prince was as a 1B as compared to Yount vs other SS/CFs or Molitor vs other...2B/3B. I'm talking about just offensive production. Prince; .282/.390/.540/.929 143 OPS+ WPA(27.5; 3.9 per season) Braun-.296/.358/.532.891 134 OPS+ WPA(33; 2.4 per season) Molitor- .303/.367/.444.811 125 OPS+ WPA(25.1; 1.7 per season) Yount-.285/.342/.430/.772 115 OPS+ WPA(20.1; 1.0 per season) None of these are adjusted for position, JUST strictly for a player's offensive production. I didn't say compared to other 1B or best player. Just the best offensive player. I emphasized the words; He's not the best player. JUST offensively; Right. I also added that the Brewers developed. WPA also works as it's Win Probability added for offensive players and also does not take into account position. I think you could argue Molitor was the best offensive player developed by the Brewers given the longevity. Yount you could certainly argue is the best overall. There was certainly no attempt to diminish other Brewer greats, but highlight exactly what an unattainable expectation it really ever was to replace Prince and what he provided. But JUST up there with a bat in their hand...I don't think they've had anyone better than Prince. The Walks, the power...while maintaining a pretty good BA. He was incredible.

No, I don't either. The 6 elite defenders were Chourio, Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Taylor and Perkins. That's why I said only room for 2 of them.

I think he's just mentioning the players that have been rumored to be part of trades. That'd obviously not be Chourio.

I hate the idea of giving up Frelick, but if they made either of these trades, you could slide Black into the OF in his stead(or play him at 1B or 2B if Gorman plays 3B). So I could definitely live with Marte for Frelick and I'd come around on Gorman real quick. I don't think I'd call him injury-prone just yet. Mitchell has been. The Brewers also seem particularly...cautious with their minor leaguers, but has he had a healthy season yet? Would '22 be the healthiest? Hard to say with these young guys and the MiLB injuries how serious they are given the lack of information and how serious they are, but he seems like he's been banged up more. I'd make both trades. I'd give up Frelick for either. I suspect the Reds would balk at that suggestion and the Cards would as well. They just traded away a good CFer because they said publicly they didn't have room for him. Jordan Walker, Lars Nootbaar with Edman in CF and Carson as their #4, I'm not sure they're looking to trade a young 2B/3B for an OFer. So I don't see a fit there and with the Reds, I think Marte...I think you're probably going to have to part with Burnes to get him. And Marte could very well end up as a Shortstop on another team that doesn't have a budding Superstar already playing SS. A guy who can hit 30 HRs. I'd be all for that. 3B or SS. In fact, his versatility would make him more appealing. Turang could stay at 2nd if Marte doesn't outgrow SS or you could have two really good defenders on that side. Sign me up for Marte, just skeptical that we're giving up enough to get him. Feels like you'd need to at least add a Payamps to that deal. Frelick+Payamps given the Reds are trying to compete and I'm not completely confident Payamps is going to be able to maintain his performance.

We'll find out later. Maybe it's Yelich not wanting to. Maybe they simply hadn't planned on the transition quite yet. Maybe they tried and he doesn't feel comfortable. 1B is the easiest position, doesn't mean it's an easy position. Maybe it is harder on his back and I was wrong(I think the torque and movement in the OF is tougher on your back, Brewerfan82 thought moving around at 1B was). I'm still hoping we'll see it in a year as it feels like a bit of a waste to have 6 elite defenders and only have room for 2 of them when we prioritize defense so much, but that's where we are. I'd also guess we'd see Yelich as the DH quite a bit more.

I'd like to see him start on opening day. If he struggles, you can always send him back down and rewind the service clock, but if he hits, give him an extension as well. 8/40M or whatever. Make the offer. But it'd depend on how he's doing it. Is he doing it like Mitchell did it, or is he maintaining an extremely high walk rate and making good contact, and playing well enough in the field that you'd feel good about him playing 1B or 3B moving forward. Or ignore all that and just allow him the opportunity to earn the job as it's another crack at the draft pick compensation for ROY top 3 finishes. .284.417.513 in AA/AAA last year with nearly identical numbers in AAA. .514 SLG, higher OBP, higher BA by quite a bit. I don't think he was abnormally lucky in either with a .320 and .34 BABIP at each level. For a guy with speed like Black has, he'll probably be in the ~320 range for the most part. Sure, Chourio was in a far different position in that he first hit AA at age 18. Then, on top of that, he also didn't quite hit the ground running in AA(the tacked ball or the fact that it's the biggest jump in levels until the jump from MiLB to MLB). I hope Wilken follows suit, I hope he's Pete Alanso but with elite defense at 3B with a monster arm and I hope he forces his way into the lineup this year. I didn't put a ton of thought into the "we won't see him for another year," I was just giving a general time line, not speaking in absolutes. I think it's pretty unlikely he's up this year, but...it'd mean he's earned it(or we're just that bad again and we're desperate).

And who was this?

Did Julien just kinda come out of nowhere? I'm looking at the Twins 2022 prospect list and he's not on there. I don't know much about him beyond the stat-line...which looks nice. But I also like Frelick a lot. I don't know if he's #2 to Chourio, or Wiemer is, but he's more of a sure thing, he brings a ton of energy and I think he's a winner. I'd feel much better if it was Mitchell+ another prospect, but I just don't know much beyond what I see on Fangraphs. So no strong opinion on him.

Based on what? I also didn't see him say he won't until he's 100%. I did see him say this two days ago;

I posted this last Oct before I knew he was transferring to a non-Juco.

No, I cannot, nor can you. And no, saying that salary and ticket prices have no correlation does not fly in the face of every business everywhere, it's basic economics. The owners aren't going to charge less than they can get irrespective of their expenses. This is the case in every sport, but particularly in Baseball. https://sheabridge.substack.com/p/payroll-doesnt-determine-ticket-prices https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/72886/veteran-presence-the-relationship-between-player-salaries-and-ticket-prices/#:~:text=Teams don't use analytics,t enter into that calculation.

The cost of games isn't the players fault. If you want to blame anyone, it's the fans fault. If the Brewers payroll was 20M or 200M, the Brewers would be charging the same for the team each year. Owners wouldn't sacrifice less money just because they had lower costs and they can't raise ticket prices because they have higher costs. The Guardians went from a nearly 160 in payroll to cutting it in half and they raised ticket prices. Owners are going to maximize profits no matter what...just like it doesn't matter that your Jordan's only cost 9 bucks to make, you're still paying 399 for them or your Iphone or whatever else it is that people are willing to pay for despite very low..."labor" costs.

Well, I would. But you don't have to. How pedantic can we make this? The point is we'll have seen Black play well before Wilken makes it up. Be it another year or a WHOLE month earlier by being a Sept call-up.

Cool. He played 6 games. Doesn't change the point I was making, which was that he won't be up for another year.

I remember arguing with someone on Twitter who said he wouldn't get 40M a year. I said I thought he'd get 50(which was hardly a rare take, it was the consensus) but I thought he'd get 12-13 years. To get 70M PER year? Even with the money he brings in and with the deferred money, it is insane.

The players union will certainly go for one of the two. But the ship has sailed on the other long ago. As a Packers fan, I think about what Wellington Mara and what he did for the NFL. How he made it grow and surge past MLB by not grabbing as much cash as he could at the time, and being open to revenue sharing. I'll always be a Brewers fan, but...deals like this show you're just in a whole other universe. Oh well, farm systems, player development win. I mean, signing historically great players for the GDP of most European countries helps, but, it's not the only thing. Yup...I'll keep convincing myself of that.

Sure, but Ohtani generates a massive amount of revenue being the biggest star from Japan. So that 70M a year...still an outrageous number, but I don't think it'd be like giving Soto 70M a year. You're making a LOT of money back from having Ohtani on your team. One article I just read estimated that Ohtani generated 20M a year for the Angels, a number that is expected to be much higher for the Dodgers, a more high-profile team and a 100-win-a-year team. Assuming "most" of the money is in deferrals, the contract becomes even more "less ridiculous," and starts coming...close to maybe making some sense.

What was the reason though? It seemed like it was largely a positional need with Turang/Adames at 2B/SS and Black in the upper levels. I don't Wilken isn't going to be up for at least a year, so they can see how Black moves on the dirt. These guys will mostly figure it out themselves. If Wilken is the next quick mover, he'll force his way into 3rd. You don't take a big dude who's athletic with that type of arm and plop him at 1B. Ideally Black shows off the Glove work and can play 2B when Adames moves on, but that doesn't feel like something we've gotta worry about right now. As for now, neither has hit MLB pitching and Wilken hasn't even hit AA. So they'll have time to figure it out. But Wilken is hopefully the answer to our 3B issue.

I've always thought the Giants made the most sense. They'd been looking for the next face of their franchise...they've been pretty good in this regard with Bonds, MadBum/Posey, but they missed on Judge, Correa and others. The Asian population in SF would seemingly also help, plus the park, staying on the West Coast, all those factors. I mean, if you get to pick from all these areas while making 500-600M(or more)...I'm not picking the Cubs and that dilapidated stadium or the weather. I'm guessing SF, LAD, and Tor...which may be stupid at this point as I know he's visiting Tor today. ,

Austin Riley and Gunnar Henderson. Those are the two guys that Nichols has in the same category as Pratt? That'll work!

Yeah, I missed that. That is a little bit of a head-scratcher. Even if you lose Burnes...and Williams, it's still not depth that you're in desperate need of, it's quality. Our BP is pretty good and pretty deep and there's reason to believe it'll be even better next year(namely Uribe). Our rotation didn't have Woody for much of last year as it was and that hurts and it may lose Burnes, and that'll hurt worse, but you do have two guys who should at worst be good depth pieces in Gasser and Rodriguez. Miley, Peralta, Ashby is coming back. Houser, Rea are both back. That's not exactly the 90s Braves, but it's a lot of depth. I think Ross is just a guy they think is back healthy and that they can work with to get the most out of. They've been pretty good in this regard. They're...bargain hunting for bats hasn't been particularly rewarding, but they've done well with pitching.

More than you are at 1B...and I'd actually say fairly often. It doesn't need to be slamming into the wall like Frelick did(several times) last year, but going back to the wall and jumping or just using it to stop your momentum, that's going to put a lot more stress on a back than catching a ball and occasionally reaching for it. And I also included the throws that put stress on the back. A lot more than bending down to pick a ball in the dirt. As for not knowing if he'll be a good 1B? Yeah, you can say that about anyone at any position. But there's a reason players more to 1B later in their career. It's the easiest position on the field to play...by a pretty wide margin. And I'd say if you can move other players there, good chance you can move a guy who was held in high enough regard to get drafted in the 1st round having played 1B in HS. But sure, maybe he isn't good. I don't think that makes it a "pipe dream." Trading Yelich...that's a pipe dream. Moving him from LF to 1B seems like a logical step as he moves into his mid 30s and the later years of his contract/career.