BrewerFan

You ever have a boss or a coach who has absolutely no clue, but their poor performance reflects upon you? That's how you lose a locker room. And while I thought there's no point in firing Barry now...it's looking like it makes more and more sense. With a young team, culture is so important. It's a miracle we're 7-8.

Yeah...they're pretty much the same. All of Jaire's run ins with the Police and sideline tantrums, that makes sense...🙄

Well, Wilken, the all-time leader in HRs in the ACC, he'll likely start in AA. Boeve is looking at AA next year. Two advanced bats who can play 3B and two big power prep bats with massive upside on top of what we already had. Black might not have great power, but...I don't really care if he has a .370 OBP, steals 30 bases, and hits 15-20 HRs and 40 doubles. If Wilken develops as expected or as we hope, he's our 3B. Boeve, they're playing at 2B, but can play 3rd. He's probably more of a Cirillo-type player. But the big thing here...when Chourio and all the young OF prospects we've got are up and slugging in 2-3 years and we've got an elite offense, what we're going to miss then...is dominant starting pitching. We drafted heavily on the offensive side, taking an entirely different approach...which takes 4-5 years to pay off(longer with the international FAs, but after Lara, we lost our picks and sat out for two years before investing in the Dominican facilities and the scouting. So we've got the offensive prospects coming, and while I get the impatience, what we need are guys we can build into TOR-type arms...IMO. All that to say...we need pitching more than we need a 3B.

Did you hear his comments after the last last week? He was asked if he'd consider firing a Coordinator in-season and he said "this isn't the time to talk about that," and made other comments that were...not subtle. He made comments earlier in the season about the "definition of insanity." He's called out Barry numerous times. Not by name, but all but. Sure. I'd counter that the defense is STACKED with talent and that the offense is the youngest in the NFL...since the Merger and likely before, but they don't have average ages. So give Love the players around him and talent around him that the D has and I think they'd be elite. Just another year with the same group will push them top 5 IMO. You add a guy like Joe Alt(who I'd absolutely trade a 2nd+ to move up to get if we could) and then some players who fit this scheme like Jaheim Bell out of FSU(look up his tape at South Carolina from '22 if you need, but he's a 6-3 230LB H-Back/RB/WRer/TE...just a dude with size, athletic ability and jaw-dropping athletic ability that translates as he can track the deep ball down the middle). And then you keep adding talent at OG. I think Rasheed Walker can be a star there, Rhyan MAY be, but the point is even without upgrade to personnel, they should be better. The defense right now has the talent and experience to be excelling. This group would excel in Capers style. This group is perfect for his version of the 34. This defense effectively relies on the two-edge rushers to get home. You play 2 gap on your DL...so Wyatt isn't going to get those sacks where he just whoops someone unless he goes rogue. It's a .5 second delay for the DL. Then you have your DBs playing off in a soft zone... Agreed...and of course, we helped, but that kid looks like he could still be a helluva pick. You want to know who the great QBs will be(or more specifically WON'T be)...listen to Merril Hodge. That dude has been nailing it year after year. I grew up with him and I never really thought he was that great, but he breaks down QB play for kids coming out of College and he's been remarkably reliable. Said he liked Young, but wouldn't have a 1st round grade on him just because he's too small and that should be reserved for franchise QBs. Respected how people would say, "Look how tough that kid is," and how he kept getting up from big hits, but that's just not sustainable. CJ Stroud was the one guy he had a 1st-round-grade grade on this year...a guy a lot of people were pretty down on relative to your average top 3 QB pick. Then of course, the famous Johnny Manziel comments!

You're in the NFL, you can't be that delicate. The offense includes and ultimately the responsibility of MLF. He's not firing Barry at this point, he was getting questions about the defense. If THAT is an issue? Again, this was a big story for a POTENTIAL issue in 2019 when Murphy got involved. He was forced to keep Pettine and Barry wasn't his first choice. I'll have more confidence in the entire football operations once Murphy gets his nose out of things. Gutekunst has proven himself. I believe MLF has mostly. If we get Rizzi and don't offer to make him one of the lowest STC in the NFL, we win that SF game(presumably). Every coach is going to make "nepo," hires though. You hire guys you work with.

He runs the offense, he's just taking accountability...I wouldn't look much deeper into THIS specific statement. I still think he's gone, but this was a meaningless quote to me other than to take some of the public scrutiny off MLF.

I get it though. I could see the Brewers...*IF everything goes right with Pratt, Bitonti, Knoth, Misi, and the young guys...being in a similar situation, and I wouldn't want to trade a couple of future stars for a SPer. I didn't like the Sabathia trade when it happened. I wanted to see the Brewers trade for Grienke. I didn't like the Marcum trade. I think I was proven wrong on both(you could argue otherwise with Greinke, but that incredible run CC had was the most historic run for a VERY long period). They probably want to put a team like the Braves offense has on the field(they should start offering extensions now).

It was inferred, but it feels like Campbell's was something that was building and building and blew. I just hope MLF can get these guys back. MM may have gotten stale, but he had his guys motivated and behind him for the most part early on. Leaders like Wood, Pickett, Tasuch, Clifton, they certainly help, but a group this young? MLF needs to grab the reigns back.

You don't feel good about Wilken, Black, Boeve, Adams, Bitonti, Baez(further down, but still...huge upside, particularly with Bitonti). Black is a top 50 prospect, and Wilken will probably be a top 50 by the end of this year. We need to be forward-looking, not looking at what we've had in the past years. We have hitters coming up at EVERY position(a MIFer opposite of Turang would be great, though EBJ among others are also there). But we NEED pitching. We have a #2/3 in Peralta, a #1 to 50IP a season injury risk in Ashby and then 4's and 5's. Who cares what we've had the last 10? It's about this team, this system and this group. (Welcome to the board, just disagree with this argument...which you're not alone in).

That's funny...I never hated Jordan. Now I was 5 or 6 when he won his first title, but I was that kid(as I'm sure many others on here were) who watched Sports Center before school and learned to read on the sports section... I remember watching him play the Bucks and rooting for the Bucks, but just being mesmerized. He was different. I feel like you're a bit hard on LeBron...but it's also hard to argue with. I don't see how Jordan loses to that Dallas team for example. GSW? Sure...not Dallas or even SA. I think I'm more charitable with LeBron, though you look at guys like Beasley or other players and they play better elsewhere. It seems to me that if you're playing with LeBron, you're facing an immense amount of pressure that didn't quite exist when MJ played with Social Media and all that. Still extremely tough to play with MJ and the expectations. Maybe Krause was underrated as he did get a team that fit him so incredibly well. The shooters, Pippen who was an elite on ball defender so Jordan didn't have to be every play. A big who could rebound and defend like Grant and then Rodman. Big bodies so Ewing didn't just destroy them. I really can't tell if it's more MJ had teammates who GREW with him and spent time there while LeBron constantly demands turnover. If it's not working RIGHT NOW, he wants trades. Really interesting points though. That run the Bucks were on in the 80s...it seems so wildly underrated among Wisconsin sports fans. The golden era of the NBA. Magic, Bird, Jordan coming on strong, the Bad boys, Dominique, Moses, Dr. J, Cheeks and Barkley and the Bucks were regularly competitive with the top teams. Some years they beat Boston(or at least one) and they'd lose to Philly or we'd beat Philly and lose to Boston. Then it was the Pistons or the Hawks with one of the truly underrated stars in Dominique Wilkins.

Yeah...I remember that now. Still didn't feel like a shot at Barry necessarily... that's just kinda Jaire to your point. I guess if there were comments as pointed as Campbell's...we'd have talked about it much more. On second thought...I'm not even sure it matters if this is all directed specifically at Barry, the scheme, whatever. If your players, guys who are not trouble makers, if they're getting to this point where they're openly making comments about not playing because of issues with the staff, that undermines the HC. So if you fire Barry, you're going to need to earn back the respect in that locker room. You're 3 years in now. Det and Wash fired him after 2. I understand the priority was Love this year and the offense, but...it's been clear Barry needed to go since very early on.

NOW we're applying "logic" from the Angels end? Burnes is a star. If they were a logical, forward thinking franchise, they wouldn't have traded their top prospects and kept Ohtani and instead, they'd have garnered a unprecedented haul of prospects for a 2 month rental of a player. They didn't do that. There's a reason.

Joe Barry just sticking to his bland D. My memory isn't the same on that. I recall Jaire saying something, but I don't recall it being a subtle or not so subtle shot at Barry... But that's just worse. This has been growing for years then. There is someone in that defensive room who knows what the hell they're doing. You saw it with the scheme to beat Minny last year the 2nd time. You saw it with those fronts with the 3 DL, LVN with his hand in the dirt and then Gary/Smith or whoever lined up as an Edge with Quay lined up inside him and playing press vs Det. Good scheme vs KC. And despite those successes we invariably revert back to this conservative cloud type D.

Well...not really. That's the Vic Fangio D. It got more popular, but it's QUICKLY dying off as those schemes have like 7 of the 10 worst defenses. We had Jaire travel with Jefferson the 2nd game...and while you're never going to match a guy up every play and you'l have help, he was on Jefferson nearly every play. Other teams still do this, but it's teams with aggressive DCs who play man heavy schemes. But the more popular, "drop 7, let my front 4 get home/keep it in front of us," Cover 3, Quarters, those CBs don't travel. And it does make the game worse.

Oh...well, there ya go! Couldn't have been a good deal! He showed you how he went 1-7 and struggled the last 30 games!!! Not worth "cash considerations," which is probably 50K? Proof...🙄

I have zero doubt the Brewers could get a top 50 prospect for Burnes. This isn't like the Hader talks(where I agreed, we'd end up disappointed). Burnes is an Ace on the final year of his deal...so in a contract year and he's an incredible talent. They(Brewers fans) may be disappointed because I remember talk of Jackson Holliday and Grayson Rodriguez last year, but there's definitely a happy medium. I think the Phillies are the exact type of team that'd be willing to trade a Painter or an Abel for Burnes and since they lost Kimbrel, maybe you include Williams to pry Painter away. Again, make it a larger deal. They could also use a LFer... So Burnes, Williams, Mitchell for Painter, McGarry? Gives you a risky potential Ace(not much risk, just a TJ). And then gives you an elite arm that needs to be refined. Maybe the Phills are desperate enough to do it...and with Harper playing 1B, Schwarber at DH...they go all in this year trying to win. And then...they're trying to sign Yamamoto, so... They're aggressively pursuing Yamamoto at the moment, but if they miss out, they may want to bolster both their rotation with a dominant starter to go with Nola and Wheeler, pushing Walker into the 4th slot and Suarez into the 5th and Sanchez into their pen.

Why would you HAVE to take Story back and exclude Mayer from the trade? Story can play 2B(which he's mostly played in Boston). They got .599 and .633 OPS out of their SS/2B combo last year. And I don't think you have to exclude Mayer from the deal, but maybe expand it. Williams perhaps. They also have Rafaela who draws comps to Mookie Betts and can play CF, SS, 2B, 3B and play them all at a high level AND hit...and he's MLB-ready. There are a plenty of trades with Boston that'd work; Rafaela, Wikelman Gonzalez(seems like an ideal candidate for our pitching development with plus stuff), and Whitlock has a big ceiling and could certainly help. Hell, if they end up investing in another pitcher, Sale could be a potential trade option. There's plenty of talent in Boston. I just can't tell what direction they're moving in. The Betts trade, letting Xander leave...they seem half in, half out, but Burnes and Adames both seem like great fits for them and we can certainly add plenty of players for our system.

I agree on both counts, but depth is important...especially in your rotation. It's what kept us alive this past year. I hope Crow can add a couple of ticks, get up to 94MPH, his secondary pitches are his best pitches, but more FB velo is always nice. I just liked the SPing depth(especially IF they bring Burnes back, if not, I'd actually get it more). And I also think it's important to have a balanced lineup. Yelich, Frelick, Mitchell, Black, Turang, Bauers(all could be preferred starters) and then Perkins struggles vs LHPing and Dunn, potentially our top utility guy. We're LH heavy and this been an ongoing issue. If Wiemer, Chourio both hit this year, then we're good. Also, a Santana return would help. I do think something else is coming down the barrel though. We'll see what it is.

I may have missed it, but did players articulate their frustrations with Barry last year? I agree it was a mistake. I wouldn't have said colossal because I didn't think they had much of a chance to do anything this year(make the playoffs, but get spanked by a good team). But if that's the case, it's even worse. I had a hard time finding this, but I'm telling you, I don't think MLF has the autonomy people believe he does. https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/09/silverstein-critics-see-cracks-green-bay-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/#:~:text=He was supposed to have,decision-maker%2C sources said. We get FAR more from the NFL every year on the 1st day of the league year than we spend on players salaries(except for when we go nuts with these giant signing bonuses and even then I don't think we've spent more on players salaries+signing bonuses than their National TV Share). So the thought that we low-balled one of the best STC in the NFL the year before the 49ers debacle(that whole season really) or that keeping Pettine or Barry may be due to not wanting to pay 2 Coordinators...it's infuriating. And then there was Drayton. Did he get the job because he earned it...while coaching under the terrible Special Team Coordinators, or because he was on staff and cheap? I'm not saying I know, I'm just saying Murphy taking a larger role and sticking his nose into the hiring decisions other than GM...it's not good for the franchise.

Ok, well, that's not what you said...you said; His defense is his carrying tool. As for how he'll hit, you're guessing how he'll hit. .271/.362/.461 with a ~12% BB rate and a 18% K rate is pretty respectable...particularly given how his early MiLB career went. Drafted, Covid, skipped to AA. Seems like a pretty obvious late bloomer. In any event, he's not Scheiner because he has the same WRC+. The whole plus D at SS and 3B is a pretty big difference over a poor 3B who's more of a 1B/LF putting up the same offensive production.

Exactly. I don't hate this trade, but you nailed it perfectly.

Should start in AAA, clearly more of an IFer and I just went through this. sub .200 BA, well under .300 OBP and a .603 OPS vs LHed pitching. We've long struggled with lefties. This exacerbates that issue. But I'm with @wiguy94. If this is a sign we're looking toward 2025, fine. Makes sense. If we're trying to compete next year, it makes little sense.

I understand that, but as I said, you have Yelich, Mitchell, Frelick who are lefties and Perkins who was BRUTAL vs lefties. Taylor would and should have gotten ABs in '24(again, if he were on the roster). RHed bats have been a weakness. And with respect, I don't really care about Steamer(I know it's a valuable resource but with rookies?). But you have a LOT of innings to cover. Gasser could have pitched WITH Houser in the same rotation or as long men. It was never an either or. I'm fine with the idea of planning more for the future or just trading these players, but again, trashing them(not saying YOU are) or saying they had no value to the team....seems silly. I'm also not excited about a young soft tosser who's undergoing TJ. For as much as you want to say the Brewers produce pitchers, Stearns has been largely responsible for that. So he thought enough of Houser and apparently not a ton of Crow.

Well, that's misleading, but, it's a stupid metric either way(off-season spending). What did we spend on catcher last year? Many wanted to sign a guy...can't remember his name, but good catcher. Went to Chicago and we got this Contreras kid! 24, better than the 31-year-old and we got at least one SU man and quite possibly another who dealt with injury last year. SPENDING is not the end all be all. We've seen that...every year. I don't love this trade at first blush(I do trust Arnold). What I really hate is kinda kicking players in the arse on the way out saying they weren't any good anyway and overpaid...almost as much as the complaining about Attanasio.

YES-WE-DID. That's approximately their yearly value at a very low price. So yeah, that's the value we traded away. Having another young pitcher doesn't mean you have to "replace" Houser. Who is going to replace Woodruff, Burnes, and whoever else inevitably ends up traded or hurt? You're also assuming Gasser is going to just slide into MLB and pitch well despite the fact And Taylor very easily could have gotten opportunities because...again, as I mentioned, we need OFers who can hit RHed pitching and Yelich will DH plenty. Yes...players with his raw power and picturesque swing NEVER develop after LowA.