BrewerFan

The Rays have a top 5 prospect and Mead to play SS. I don't think they're trading for a year of Willy. The Rays are likely trading Glasnow, but...I doubt they're in the market for a SS. I also have no clue what's going on with Franco. I haven't paid attention to that story at all, but even assuming he's done, I think they're fine there.

LOL...if he leaves after 9 years, it means he was lying and didn't really want to win a WS in Milwaukee, his words mean nothing and he was never "one of us?" He won't lose any respect from me. He was here for 9 years and if he decides he wants to play in New York(Where you've already got him signing as this is a mere formality) I'll still consider him "one of us," as he's lived here longer than I've been alive and he's...also a grown man who's earned the right to make that decision.

Yeah, winning SBs makes you a HOF caliber QB and Brady has also won 7 of them(and he wasn't HOF caliber the first several few when he needed Bledsoe to come into the AFCCG or was holding the Rams to 17 points, beating the Raiders with the Tuck rule). Brock Purdy would be my response to this general line of thinking. Or Jalen Hurts, but he's probably on his way to becoming a HOF-caliber caliber QB. The point is, a HOF QBs, they end up in the HOF as often because of the time because of team success. You're including 3 Manning runs in there, 2 by Eli who isn't a HOF caliber QB if not for two great defensive lines by his teams and Peyton when he didn't even start most of the year he won his last SB. But yeah, I said if Williams, you draft the QB. I've said as much about Williams since before Love took over. And everyone else knows who and what Caleb Williams is, so it seems unlikely that, A-we're going to pass up the Bears and Panthers in the "race" for Williams(I'd also include the Cards and a couple other teams in that group). And if it comes to trading up, you're most likely trading away massive draft capital, even if you're sitting at #5. The group of QBs that make you a SB caliber team just by virtue of their presence on a team is exceedingly small and we just had one for 15 years, but lost to inferior QBs regularly because...we didn't have that complimentary FB. We didn't have the defense or running games when Rodgers was losing to Wilson's who had a top defense 4 out of 5 years(#2 the other year) or Kaepernick/Jimmy G who had dominant defenses. As for College stats, I couldn't be less interested in what a QB did in College statistically. Josh Allen and Joe Burrow had a combined 1 year meeting your threshold as starting QBs and they're both QBs pretty obviously on their way to HOF careers. How they play, sure, but their stats? Case Keenum would be the greatest QB of all time if College States told you anything and June Jones would be the NFL version of Mike D'Antoni. If Jordan Love had gone to OSU, he probably have completed 70% of his passes and that wouldn't mean anything to me either.

"None other than Vrable!" LOL...that was a build-up but I'm not sure what! It sounds like Jim Garrison talking about the Grassy Knoll. But sure, it's Vrable. I'm not sure if that's a problem, part of the problem, or not. I don't have the first clue if this is WRers and their inexperience or poor coaching. It feels like when you have a good position group, that position coach is really good, when you have a bad one, they're bad. Was Edgar Bennett a great WR coach? I have no idea. I know people wanted Adams cut going into his 3rd year, so...I have no idea how to even begin to quantify how to divide up the blame, coach, players, youth, and natural progression...maybe Love called the play wrong. Maybe a WR broke off a route or is trying to get into an open area in the zone. I have no clue who's at fault here. Maybe you bring back Edgar? Or....I don't know. That's all beyond the purview of a fan IMO.

Sure. Your supporting cast can make you or break you. For an established ELITE QB, they can overcome it to some degree, but not to this degree and we don't have an established QB. As for Fashanu...yeah, it looks like he'll be gone. He could go...I guess as high as 2nd, but I don't think Chicago would take another OT, I think they'd trade the pick for a QB and would be more likely to take an Edge(Latu and or Verse could go). Maye, Harrison, and it's entirely possible a couple QBs go earlier. I wouldn't take him, but McCarthy could go(if for instance the Vikings ended up picking ahead of us...or NE). Pennix, Ewers. Or a couple could go back to school. But as of now, we should be in a position to get at least one of the 2.

I think several people have said they'll root for them and be on the bandwagon come March. We'll root for them. They're still not on top of mind when it comes to Wisconsin teams. Hell, the first person listed off "Wisconsin teams," in the next 2 years, they totally forgot Marquette and it took how many posts until someone pointed it out?

By the way...I don't recall anyone specifically complaining about Gary. IIRC, most of the usual posters were measured(I remember a couple were POSITIVE they could have traded back to 20 or so and still gotten him. But the main thing is I remember how many people were upset the 'Brilliant' Pats took Chase Winovich went in the 3rd round and we got the lesser of the two Michigan pass rushers at #12. Maybe a reminder for some that it's good to step back and now zero in so much on each game and take a look at the larger picture; https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/10/former-dolphins-patriots-de-chase-winovich-retires

Also keep in mind Barry wasn't his first choice. He was also forced to keep Pettine an additional year and wanted to hire Rizzi, the STs Guru that the Saints ended up paying like an NFL Coach. And also that this was a 6 win team when he took over. So we know that twice he didn't have complete autonomy over his Coordinators and a third he didn't get the Coordinator he wanted. I think these are growing pains made worse by again losing Bakh...Jenkins hasn't been back to normal and their young WRers/TEs look talented, but they're just young. As for him not being a "Sean McVay" hire, McVay was 5-12 last year. The Packers trounced him pretty good in the playoffs. If we had a healthy Bakh...I think MLF has a SB and all the cache, but it's a bit funny the degree of certainty we've got now that MLF ISN'T the guy. No, not a chance on McCarthy. I really doubt we're high enough to pick Maye and it'd be sillly...IMO, to give up on him with this youth and a terrible OL ONE season in. I guess you consider it if you can get Caleb Williams...maybe Maye, but nobody else is worth it. It also helps to really understand the problems, not just "offense sucks-QB sucks-coach sucks." Love has done enough that it's obvious he's capable of being a high-end starter. He's also struggled at times as....I think pretty much everyone expected. If you can't get one of the top 2...and I don't see how it's possible to finish below Chicago and Carolina, so it's really just the one at that point(and if Chicago is 1 and 2, they'd be wise to trade #2 to a team that needs Maye which means giving up future 1sts and less likely to be to GB) again, Other than that, you draft one of the OTs. At least one of the OTs and I'd draft Two in this class. Anyway, an actual breakdown on how 'bad' Love was.

Yeah, we talked about this a lot. I was hoping to see a OT drafted this past year, but understood this wasn't a great class and when Johnson went 6th overall, it became a long shot. I liked Wright...I like him even more now, I think Chicago hit there, but I wasn't sold at the time on a guy who's a RT only(I would guess he could play LT, but he's clearly more suited to RT). Broderick Jones is looking good, but this class is to OT what the '83 class was to QBs. I wouldn't "just" spend a 1st and a 4th on the OL. Ideally, I'd take Alt or Fashanu, both guys who are plug and play type players who could be PB and in Fashanu's case, an AP very early on in his career. And both fit this outside zone scheme perfectly. But you've also got guys like Mims, Fuaga, Latham, Barton(who's more versatile and probably more like a Tom type who can play all 5 spots)...you can go down and list 8 or 9 guys before you get to Jordan Morgan, a guy projected to be a 1st rounder last year before a torn ACL. So either take those 2nds, move back into the 1st around ~20 and get a guy like Mims, a big, monster who's agile and can move to play RT or see who's there in the 2nd. Morgan(and Barton) is the prototypical Packers type OL...the only problem with that, when you're not getting the premier talent, they're usually going to be much better in one aspect of the game and lacking in the other. We've prioritized pass blocking for obvious reasons, but a lot of these guys can do both. An OL next year of Alt/Jenkins/Tom/Myers-Walker-? with Mims or Fuaga at RT should solve your OL issues for the foreseeable future. Now...IF we're actually bad enough to be in position to draft a guy like Maye or Williams...I guess you'd have to but I have trouble envisioning a scenario in which we're bad enough that we end up with a top 3-4 pick and I also think a disproportionate amount of the blame has fallen on Love. I'd also disagree with regard to Walker. I don't think he jumped Tom. We went into the season with Tom having won a starting job, Bakh looked healthy and played well week 1 and Walker spent the whole pre-season preparing to be his backup. Obviously, there was the expectation he'd play some, but I think when Bakhtiari went down, it just made much more sense to keep Tom where he was, Walker at LT rather than ask each to play the other side. I also take your point with regard to Walker...I just think this class is so abnormally loaded with offensive tackle talent, rather than a 'wait and see,' type approach, I'd rather be aggressive. Lets change the identify of this team FINALLY. Even when we've been good, it's been a while since we've been a team that just dominated the LOS. For a while, Sitton, Linsley and Lang could certainly create holes inside with Bulaga and Bakhtiari outside. I hope Walker or Caleb Jones...who I'm a fan of, or Luke Tenuta...a guy the Packers are high on, I hope ONE of them comes on so strong they allow the Packers to be a bit more patient with the other OT(I think we all agree if one of the top guys is there in Rd1 we take him). It's just like a cheat code if you can throw out an OL like Philly has or Dallas has/had, the 49ers have. It takes sooo much pressure off the QB, it takes so much pressure off the RBs, your defense as you're not going 3 and out nearly as often. It opens up your entire playbooks. We can't do a damn thing right now. Any play that's a little slower developing is getting rushed and Love doesn't have the time to look off safeties. And it's not like we haven't seen what Love CAN do when he's playing vs a good secondary with time in the pocket. Chicago, ATL and NO, the later two both with good secondaries, but poor pass rushes, he sat back there for 3-4 seconds and looked calm, and patient and went through his reads and consistently made big throws on 3rd down. A dominant OL DRASTICALLY reduces the type of talent you need at QB. Brock Purdy is a nice player, but I will not be convinced he's a better or more talented player than Jordan Love...but he's certainly playing a much higher level. Beyond that, I don't see many needs on this team other than the OL. A new, more aggressive DC pushes this defense into the top 5, particularly if you have an OL that can run block. OL-Obviously #1 S-I'd let the season play out, but we finally start to have cap room and as good as this draft is in OT, Safety is the best position for Free Agency. Kameren Curl, the top graded under 25 player by PFF is a FA(estimates at 4/60). Budda Baker will be 28 years old, but is a legitimate super star. Antonio Winfield is one of my favorite players. His Dad was such a pain in the arse in Minnesota and he's the same in TB. He's tough, smart, very good in coverage. Kyle Dugger, like Curl, a bigger, more physical player. Jeremy Chinn, an interesting player if you were to bring in Jim Leonhard and want that bigger, physical safety. Jayron Kearse would be a cheap option. And I think Savage has really been good. The biggest issue is safeties just don't have the same value. RB-You definitely need a RB or 2. I think Emanuel Wilson will end up being a really good player. Aaron Jones will likely be back one more year, but a guy like Blake Corum, or the kid from Memphis, Watson. He's very similar to Antonio Gibson. These are 4th/5th round guys. MLBer-Smael Mondon is a guy I love from watching UGA to see Mims and Van Pran. He's stepped in for Quay Walker and you can see it. Not as physical, every bit as athletic, maybe a bit better in coverage. DE-You ALWAYS want DE. If Kris Jenkins would be an ideal pick. Culllen's nephew, he's a 2nd-3rd rd prospect. I'd just argue that when talking about which positions are a bigger priority, fixing this OL could potentially be the difference in the direction this entire franchise goes. If you have a weakness at safety and you have to start Ford and Douglas or whomever, you need your pass rush to be better and your CBs. Love's future, the guy we went all in on and created this chasm with Rodgers over, his future could depend on what we do with the OL this year.

That is a grossly overly simplistic statement. A rotator cuff, a torn labrum, a capsular repair, they're not all one in the same. There is a WIDE range of injuries with vastly different outcomes. In addition to what I just laid out, this is sniped from the newer, more innovative technique to repair this very type of injury that is less than 10 years old. 9 month recovery time. He should be fine. This is not "typically a career ender." This is not Jimmy Nelson's surgery or injury.

It's a gamble, but it's becoming less of one with this type of injury. And you're not talking about some 5/110M type deal, it's a 2/25M deal. I think that's worth the risk. Kendricks from the Cubs just had this...I think Urias had this done. In fact, this is becoming an increasingly successful surgery with a relatively new technique and while the sample size is limited, most pitchers come back to 100%. This is related to the type of surgery Woodruff is having. I'm not sure this injury is as big of a threat as is being suggested. ALL shoulder injuries can't just get lumped in.

Right. I feel like we've established they're good, they've got money...and yet there still isn't nearly as much interest in them. I don't know what we're arguing here. They hired Smart away from Texas, they have a good tradition. They're still not nearly as popular as UW. They also have a HUGE edge in recruiting with their academic requirements for athletes...and yet, Wisconsin seems to do just fine vs them year after year.

These are SOO stupid...I get it's a team account trolling another, but I remember that play. Giannis was coming over late and not really in a position to block it and everyone acts like Collins just "posterized" him. And I guess he did, but I'd rather have a guy who gets dunked on regularly and actually contests shots at the rim! One of the few joys on Twitter...watching other teams talk about how they're getting Giannis in 2022, 2024 when he asks out, 2025 when he's FA! I mean, it's already been a lock, he's going to Miami, Chicago, SA, Dallas, obviously the Lakers are just entitled to him and the Clippers were going to somehow swing it, Atlanta because...Milwaukee is too cold. I think the only fan base not talking about getting him are the other small market teams and Boston. And NOW...well, they don't really want him because he can't shoot and all he does is run and dunk and he's getting old anyway...at 28! The coping is funny!

He can do things to entire them like...give them a place to stay or let them stay at one of his houses(he's got a couple now I believe). But literally pay them? I'm guessing @LouisElysaid that a little tongue in cheek. That's a pretty obvious violation. I don't wanna say Giannis HAD to do this because...he's obviously free to do what he likes, but he did kinda owe it to the Bucks who have completely sacrificed their future to upgrade this team right now with Dame and trading Jrue away, PLUS what could VERY easily be 3 premium top 10 picks.

How are you using that? Playing a little moneyball is looking for an area that's undervalued and jumping on that. You're talking about signing high risk starters and hoping we can piecemeal a rotation together that combined with the loss of Burnes and/or Williams we'll make up for it. That's...very unlikely. There's a reason you're talking about getting back multiple top 100 prospects back for one year of Burnes. It's because he's really good. I think you're optimistic and that's cool. And MAYBE you're right...everyone thinks they're the realist and deems people more either pessimistic or optimistic based on their view. But I would look at next year as a transition year if we're doing this...and that'd be my preference. IF you can get Miley back, Ashby is healthy, Peralta, a deep pen, Gasser, Rodriguez, maybe you have a surprising season. Yeah, I understand your logic. I don't know that Porter is 2-3 years away. He was overwhelming and dominant in a full year of A-ball. He'll start next year in HiA and that could VERY easily be a mid-season promotion. If he spends the whole year in HiA, then he starts '25 in AA at worse(assuming health which for the sake of this argument, you always assume otherwise you could just as easily do so for Burnes). By that point, he's a phone call away. Leiter, he's in a hitter friendly league and the talent is unquestionably there and the Brewers manage to pull it out of pitchers. BUT, the prospects are just guessing. We just have a difference of opinion. I'm alright giving up on contending in '24 as I don't think it's worth losing Burnes for just a QO. You talk about a long way away, you're talking about an extra pick in the '25 draft. Porter is just the near ideal prospect IMO. If he was doing this in AA, he'd be a top 10 prospect and nobody would trade him for Burnes. So you give up a little longer wait for more upside. I'm sure you could get a Gasser type prospect(more specifically a Robbie Snelling for example). But I like the power righty with Cy Young potential even if it comes with a longer wait. I don't want to just fill a rotation though, I want to find Top of the Rotation type arms. They can obviously help develop arms, but there's always going to be a limit. And ideally, those arms line up with Chourio, Black...and all the rest. Misiorowski is one guy who COULD be an ace. He has a huge range of potential outcomes, but he's the one guy on this list you'd project to start a playoff series until you get to Knoth, a guy we just drafted out of HS. The Internationals? Absolutely some very interesting young arms, but again, a long way away. I see the trepidation about "wasting" the Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta era, I understand you don't want to punt on next year. I'm just as worried about having the exact opposite problem with the next generation and not having enough pitching when we finally have an offense with some studs in it. Re the BP, I agree, that we'll be fine on and you can always solve that when you need to if it's really an issue. I take your point, you should try and win while you can, but already being down Woodruff next year, I think stepping back and trying to regroup for '25-'30 gives us a better chance to win. Watching AZ go to the World Series though...it really does once again spotlight how young talent and getting hot at the right time can propel a team to the next level.

Read further back. "Everyone" is most definitely NOT giving JRJ a pass. Yes, we have two competent OL in Tom and Jenkins. I think Walker's going to be fine, but not at LT, he's more suited for G. I'm sure I've started to annoy people I've said we need to use our top 3 picks on the OL(though maybe just 2 if we keep losing). 1st-Whatever it takes to get Alt or Fashanu. That might take a 2nd to move up....and they're both elite OTs. 2nd-Another OT like Mims or Morgan depending on what the board looks like and move Tom to Center. But after the top ~10 the mock drafts are wildly inconsistent. If JRJ is the worst OL we've got, we're fine. The priority is getting one of the two LTs. If we can get one of the two just straight up with our 1st rd pick, then take both our 2nds and move back to ~20 and get the next BPA on the OL. But Runyan is definitely not given a pass, he's just not the biggest problem. LT and C are clearly bigger issues. Runyan at least doesn't blow his blocking assignments.

Yeah, I don't share the disdain for Marquette that a lot of people seem to, but it's not about their...Ken Pom rankings, it's just a much smaller school. They're a good team. I'll root for them. My Cousin went there for Track...but I can't muster enough to follow Wisconsin that closely anymore, much less Marquette. But I know they're doing well recruiting and somehow they're considered one of the best jobs in the Country($ plus no Football I guess). But sure, people just aren't as invested in Marquette...

Rasheed Walker(who's convinced people he's good instead of just...NOT a terrible backup), Josh Myers...who nobody is convinced is good, Zach Tom who's probably best suited to start at C playing RT and getting bull rushed into Love's lap. The Hamstrings on the Packers are apparently as tightly wound as a vegan Karen, so they're just snapping left and right. Uh...we don't allow anyone to take toradol which makes your knee, shoulder, whatever...feel good for about 3-4 hours and we're apparently the only team that doesn't do these(probably in the NFL or College). Jordan Love MIGHT suck...I don't know because he makes these absurd throws at times and then he misses Musgraves by 8 yards despite dude being 6'6 and then he throws a ball like he's in that movie where they "Bend the bullet" around pass rushing DL. I still don't know if he's good. I know he won't be really good as long as these WRer/TEs keep getting hurt AND he has no OL, but even in his good games, he has struggled to show up until the 2nd half. Oh, and.....Barry, Joe(I don't need to expand here, do I?)

I think looking at the dead cap is looking at it the wrong way. You look at the cap savings. Kenny Clark is a guy you could move off and save ~2M but you'd have a big dead cap. Preston Smith is a savings of ~2.3 They could fit these all in. Preston Smith for instance, his dead cap is already part of what his actual cap hit is. So of course you can fit in a trade in which you're only paying part of his total cap hit. Dead Cap=Sunk Costs The only time you don't make a trade due to dead cap is when it's prohibitive...like if the Cards actually play Kyler Murray this year and he gets hurt. Then his contract would be way too expensive for them to cut this year(not trade though). So it's not about dead cap(most of the time) it's about cap savings vs player value. You're also going to be taking on dead money in '24 with these guys. So Kenny Clark for example, you each about 10M dead cap this year and next and you save ~2M this year and ~17M next year. I don't think that's worth it for a 6th round pick...for a 2nd...that may be worth it. He's playing better. It's effectively do you want to pay Clark 19M the next two years or trade him and save close to the same and get a pick? It'd depend on the trade. The only player it'd cost us significant cap space are guys like Jenkins who we just gave a decent size signing bonus to. Pretty much everyone who's got the 3-4 void years would probably cost more vs the cap to trade(Savage, Nixon, Douglas) but it's minimal in those cases. Jordan Love. I don't think there's a lot of options though. We spent ~90M more on players contracts the last two years each than the cap allowed and this year we're paying players ~80M less than what the cap allows. It's the price. But next year there's quite a bit of daylight and the year after it's fine again. If there's a player it makes sense to trade...do it. Winning games at this point is only a real positive if it's because Love and the young skill players are getting in sync, but THIS is the year we suck it up and deal with our past spending. Get a top 10 maybe a top 5 pick, give Love another year with an fixed OL and spend wisely moving forward. Should have ~40M in cap space next year in a worst case scenario(before Gary and expensive rookies).

I don't think there have been a lot of training wheels. We can't run block so we're usually starting behind the sticks, Love is strangely more erratic on shorter throws than longer throws(relatively speaking) and we also can't pass block...but he's made some incredible throws. I just want to see more consistency. It was so obvious early on he was an NFL QB when he had time and he was doing a good job going through his progression and then coming back and finding the 3rd/4th option...but he's got less time, Jones hasn't really been there. They could trade Clark and get value for him. I don't know how much. Jaire...ya know, if you can get a 1st+, maybe you pull the trigger? Maybe he just can't hold up. Gary you might wanna figure out what he's going to take to re-sign(I suspect they know). You could a haul for him as well, but now you're really resetting.

Dude...we play the Bears again. Winnable games are TB, NYG, Carolina, Chicago...Minnesota is not good, so that's two more. We had an extremely weak schedule. It's getting a bit tougher, but the we play 3 teams who are picking ahead of us in the draft as of now. But it's fine. I didn't care about Wins or Losses this year. I cared about Love's development. That took a hit with Bakh, but hey, there are two great OTs in this class and we can get one of them. Or hell, get 2 of them, move Tom to Tackle.

Agreed. Payamps I think you could get a solid return for(not that solid, but solid). I don't think Wilson has much value going into a season. He has more for us based on the questions around our SPing. Williams, he should have more. Not AS much as I think has been suggested with multiple top 100, but I could see the Rangers being a good team to target. Their payroll jumped 100M this past year and is already in the ~230 range for next year. That's a team I'd look at IF they come up short. Hell, I'd love to expand it to Burnes+Williams for Porter, Lieter and...Dustin Harris or whoever. I still think if adding Williams with Burnes gets you a premier young pitching talent, you do it. Porter may not be ranked as high, but I could see him being a top 20-25 prospect next ASB.

It's REALLY nice to have young pitching, relievers or starters, but Bryce Wilson? Payamps for a guy like Jack Leiter? He's nearly 30, on his 6th team and he was very good last year...but the #2 pick in the draft a year ago? I can't imagine the Rangers giving up on Lieter for just about any reliever at this point(Uribe maybe). He's in a very pitcher friendly league(s) and he's struggled with his command, but his stuff is still elite. Tidwell isn't as highly touted, but he's roughly comparable to a Carlos Rodriguez. The Mets can go out and buy a BP(Diaz is coming back for one). I don't think they'd trade a MRP for a really good prospect. And I really don't think the Rangers are trading a player they've not long ago picked 2nd and who's reached AAA and has TOR talent. Unless you're talking about an elite young arm like Uribe, I don't see the Rangers dealing Lieter for a reliever...even after a really good season...

Oh...so it's the same old Bucks(but not the good old Bucks that were in the ECFs or won NBA Titles, just the same OLD Bucks from specifically 2023-24) because Stotts left for some reason that we don't know about... Gotcha! So no more responding to(or reading) my posts. So I guess we'll just have to wait for you to be proven right on EVERY Latin American player we signed and then you'll be in touch with me? Just kills me to think we paid 85K for Abner Uribe and we could give 10M to Matt Moore! Eh...you really sure I'm the one who's overly sensitive here? You're funny! It's a compliment! I love the Onion as well!

It's not just you, but again, we should remember they keep time on the field and the TV isn't always right. For instance, there was a play that...according to the TV ended with 27 seconds left. I don't recall which, but the next play ran and there was still 27 seconds left. If you listen closely, you hear the Head Umpire telling them to put the clock at 35 seconds(I believe, it was hard to hear). So maybe. That was the most egregious to the people I watched it with, but it SEEMS like there was an explanation there.