BrewerFan

Yeah, but I'm always a little skeptical of the combine numbers vs the field. You spend so much time training for just those numbers. That is plenty fast if you've got a good OL and you're a one cut-and-go type back. I thought Bettis was pretty unique. He was great at ND, LA and then a perfect fit in Pitt. He had a good crossover with Dawson and Faneca, right? Plus Hines Ward and usually blocking TEs...and then elite defenses with edge rushers who created turnovers(Troy P). I think Bettis was just on another level, but the Steelers were perfect for him. Set the tone in the cold or wet weather.

I'm right there with you. It kinda feels like with Mitchell is maybe a bit overrated because he's had some big moments with the Brewers and his final line from his rookie year looked good(after a 3-hit game raised his OPS ~200 points). I like him, I'm not down on him and I can swayed as well(hell, I can be swayed on any player on any of my teams) if he performs. It's just the Ground Balls+the Ks to me don't suggest the same high offensive profile. Then you have the injuries...he's the #4 OF prospect for me(among the MLB-ready guys). Likely because we've seen him excel in the minors AND have hot stretches in the big leagues. Go listen to Tony Gwynn's comments about your stance or bat movement. I'll summarize. It's meaningless. It's all about where you are when the ball is released. If you're loaded and in a position to swing at that point. The rest is pointless. Maybe all of that stuff will help him identify the pitches better or maybe this is just his swing and he'll come around and he's being judged too harshly given he should have started last year and spent at least a couple of months in AAA, but was pressed into duty. But I don't pretend to be an expert on the mechanics of hitting. When I played travel ball, we all had the same swing...except the guy who was actually good enough to play in College and his was an open stance with his hands low.

Dayne was another guy who had exceptionally good feet, and patience and used his blockers so well. So many backs run past their blockers, but Dayne would slow down, set them up, and then kick it back down(Jones does this well). But he probably should have lost 15 pounds or so, and I'd guess he probably ran a 4.75. He was pretty slow for an NFL back. I think teams need to be smarter about how they use their backs. If you have a guy like Dillon, run some iso, and some power. Double-team at the point and let him take on the LBer in the hole. Especially with smaller LBers. Just running outside zone with him, it doesn't play to his strengths. Big backs can definitely have success, but making the right reads are that much more important for them as they often lack the quickness to make up for it and you need your OL to stop penetration. Saw this during the Titans game, but Henry averages .5 YPC when first contact is in the backfield, and it was like 7.5 when it's past the LOS. They need a little runway to get going. That should be obvious, but you can't just throw a big guy out there and expect him to lower the shoulders and pick up 2-3 yards if it's not blocked.

They've GOTTA be considering it. The upside of being able to throw out 5 guys who can play elite CF(and presumably elite LF/RF) is suuuch an upgrade defensively. It's not as if you just can't get by with Yelich in LF. He's been...good. Solid. But you saw last year how he was moving so much better early on and throwing the ball well and he just kept kinda progressively getting worse as the season went on. I'd also think Yelich and his range at 1B could be pretty solid. I don't expect him to be even last year Santana level, but he's played 1B before in HS he was a 1B, so he's not completely new to it. Or at least have him play MOST of his games as the LHed side of the platoon at DH. You can send Wiemer down, let him figure it out. I'm confident he'll figure it out well enough to be a .240/.330/.500 30/30 type RFer with elite defense, an incredibly valuable player. So I really hope they don't trade him. Frelick's defense was even more impressive IMO. The catches he made against the wall, his arm strength(a very underrated part of his game). Mitchell is an elite athlete, probably the one I'd be the most inclined to move off of due to his injury history, but I would want to. And then the 19-year-old savant. I guess he plays CF. Normally it'd be a no-brainer, but with 3 others, plus Taylor, I don't know that it really matters where they all play. The energy they bring on the bases and with those big catches, those are the types of things that really help you build a winner.

I think the Rays are probably fine with the decision. They made a Baseball decision that was the right one to make. If Franco has done what he's accused of, he'll be suspended and they'll be able to void that contract. And the Tatis Jr deal was after he'd proven he was a star SS...and I think it's Lazy to make the claim he "magically" turned into an upper 700s OPS player, inferring he was only hitting due to PEDs. He had a shoulder injury and seems likely that's why he took the PEDs. All these contracts have morality clauses in them. I can't imagine the Brewers would look at the Wander Franco situation, an exceptionally rare circumstance, and factor that in.

Damn...I knew the Pac-12 was hurting, but I don't think I realized it was THAT bad. I just haven't really paid attention that closely I guess. That's kinda sad though. That was a great conference. WE were all better off, IMO, when you had a strong SEC, B1G, SEC, B12, Pac12 and ACC. You could pick a year and the best team in CFB could legitimately come from any of those. Now it's really just the two and MAYBE a Clemson or FSU will have a big year, but it's too bad. Of course the Ivy League was once one of those dominant conferences. Things change and evolve.

*****...damn, we broke the system!

Yeah, it'd be nice if we could have won some of those earlier games, but...that's part of the process. I'm just impressed with how Love pulled this team out of a nosedive. We were trending toward a top 5 pick. In fact, if we lose to the Chargers, I think we'd have been sitting at 4th. With regard to Watson, frustrating as he may be, gotta remember that he ran fewer routes on pass plays in all of his HS and college career and the 1st year of his NFL career as the 'Bama and OSU WRers that went in the 1st rounds in 2021 and 2022 ran in ONE year of College(I'd assume minus Jameson Williams). That's an Andy Herman stat, so maybe I got it a bit wrong, but...close So he was raw playing for a small school, but also one that only threw the ball 20 times a game. Still frustrating how he's so hit or miss, but just something to keep in mind. Gary may end up the Packer's best homegrown defender since...Butler? Not saying he's passed Matthews yet, but man, he's on that trajectory. Van Ness had such a similar profile coming out, if he ends up just 80% of Gary, that's a young, dynamic pair of edge rushers for the next 7-8 years. I've been a Love and Gary fan, but I did not expect Gary to be quite this dominant and I definitely started to question Love(still not 100% sold, but plenty to be excited about). That HAS to be the thing that stands out the most to this front office. We have not played great defensive fronts, but when we've been able to slow the pass rush, Love has been great. You say most of the throws, I think he can make EVERY throw. Needs to make the deep throws more consistently, but he's been impressive. Again, the KC game with the way they pressure the QB, play Man across the board and send 5-6, it'll be a great test for him. Watson needs to build on his game, Reed needs to play well.

I don't think the scheme is a mess. I think it's a different style of play that relies on more backside help on penetration. I think we all understood that losing Jrue was going to be a MASSIVE loss on that side of the ball, but I think they're figuring it out and adjusting. It's definitely a team that even with Crowder, will have some holes...as opposed to the Celtics who, provided they stay healthy, should have a more well-rounded team. But come playoff time as more physical play is allowed and these guys have had another 4 months together, I don't think we're going to be a terrible defensive team. I do hope all the people who complained about Jrue now appreciate what a stud he was for us. I also hope that as the season passes, Marjon and AJJ can develop a bit more, Crowder comes back at full strength. I don't know if there's a trade the Bucks can still make to add a really good defensive guard. I see Caruso, Dort thrown out there. Who are we trading? Portis I guess? That could work with a healthy Crowder, but you'd have to likely add Marjon. Royce O'neal is another one. As I understand it, you can no longer add salaries to make trades if you're over the 2nd apron, and you can't take more money back(even the 120%+100K or whatever it is exactly). So again, Portis. I saw one proposal to get Caruso and it was a tough pill to swallow. It was Portis, Connaughton, Beauchamp+2 2nds for Alex Caruso and Kenrich Williams. That seems like a TON to give up, but to play devil's advocate, Williams can help cover Portis minutes. He may even thrive as he's a competent 3-point shooter, a solid defender. 28 years old, so not a future star. Caruso is nearly 30, but a really underrated player. It's an unrealistic trade, and while I think Beasley has generally been pretty good for the Bucks...this video alone makes you think, "yeah, maybe we do need to make a move!"

I disagree. USC is a sleeping giant and with Lincoln Riley, they're going to be a good team that should hold the Pac-12 up in the futu-....what's that? They're also jumping ship? Damn, forgot that. Yeah, the Pac12 sucks and is gonna be awful.

Dillon is Rd 2-3 from what I've seen. Then again, you know how these mocks work. There are 100 guys who are 1st rounders in mock drafts. I think Allen is a little better than Dillon the last 2 seasons. So I'll just compare him to the Dillon we have now, I'd take Allen. I think he's got much better feet, I think he's shown he can catch the ball well enough(turned into a strength of Dillon's game). The problem to me is that Dillon started to try and make guys miss. He there was a play this past week where the DL crossed Jenkins face, he kinda blows up the play, but Dillon still had a chance to lower his shoulder and get 2-3 and instead, he tried to bounce it outside like Jones and lose 2-3. I think Allen makes better reads, is more patient, and has better feet. I'll predict he is taken in the early 3rd and by a team that has solid backs(The Eagles are the type of team he'd really excel playing for). As a Packers fan, I'd MUCH rather see the Packers go out and get two guys like...Blake Corum(probably a 4th due to age, use, and injury) and another guy like Ray Davis(Kentucky). A couple of good backs, I don't need "Lightening and Thunder." Just backs who can pick up an LBer in pass pro, hit the hole, catch the ball. Hell, Blake Corum is thought of as a short yardage back. The "short yardage back," is antiquated. I know this is an Allen thread, but I think it's still 50/50 Jones is back another year(probably taking another haircut on his base). Wilson is a big back at 230 and he's got all the physical tools. They may want him to lose a couple of pounds, but I like him. And then there are a lot of good, solid backs who fit our scheme. If Allen does fall into the middle of Day3, I'd consider that, but I THINK @youroutmight be underestimating his value. Though It's so hard to tell before the combine and everything. I don't totally get the "if he were a TE he'd go earlier," comment. But as long as I made this about the Packers and the RB position, Jaheim Bell is SUCH a perfect fit for the Packers. He's a ~6'3 240 TE who's played FB, who's gotten carries, who's really good after the catch(relative to most guys his size). He could be a major weapon in our system and replace Deguara...who never really developed as a blocker or as a pass catcher.

I'm pretty impressed with Dame's level of effort on defense. Nobody will ever confuse him with Jrue, but he's getting deflections, he's playing hard in the post, caused a travel last night, drew a charge. The defensive issues just seem like a communication thing. Clearly we struggle stopping penetration, but with Giannis and Lopez, it should be better. I am seeing some pretty good stretches of play, but not putting it together. Losing Crowder hurts. I like the intensity on this team though.

That's true. It's also terrible for a fan base. Imagine if the Packers couldn't afford to keep Rodgers? The Bucks Giannis? You get a true superstar and you have to trade him before he's hitting his prime-prime years, that's not going to drive interest(just the opposite). I remember when the Brewers lost Molitor. It was a totally different set of circumstances, but it was brutal as a...~6-year-old fan(It was after '91, but I'd been watching him for a few years by then). Similar to losing Prince and we all knew that was coming(and VERY few people were advocating for an extension with him).

It's always worthwhile to reply simply to say I didn't read what you wrote. Here's the long of the short of it. I don't care if "people were saying," they didn't want to trade Hiura for deGrom(who was getting paid a LOT and was due to be a FA at that time, so...again, obviously). I don't need a lesson in how much people liked Hiura. I've been to hundreds of Brewers games, I've been following this team for a minute. Hiura is NOTHING like Chourio. I'll just get back down to the basics and if you want to get back to the whole preamble with the "but people were really excited about Hiura," fine. Nobody wanted to give him a 100M dollar deal(I can speak in those terms as well).

I was talking about Green Bay.

I think the biggest thing he'd have going against him is that he's a defensive coach and OSU likes offensive minded coaches. Beyond that, I think Leonhard is one of the top young coaches in CFB and could easily get a job as a DC for any of the elite programs looking or for multiple NFL teams. His scheme is proven, he can relate to kids and he had a long and successful NFL career. But I'm still hoping for a Wisconsin reunion.

I do not think we have a QB that looks better than Allar. He's got a very real chance to go 1-1 next year.

I was paying very close attention. He was hitting the ball well as a terrible fielding 2B who SEEMED to avoid TJ surgery for the time being. Not even remotely similar to Chourio. I don't know how to quantify how people "felt" to support an anecdote, but lets roll with this. Lets say Chourio hits like Hiura. He's STILL an elite defensive CFer with elite speed. So the "oh, what if he's Hiura," it's really not scaring me when you're talking about an elite defensive CFer who is going to hit for power, even if he strikes out at the rate Hiura does. His defense/base running even at Hiura's .238/.318/.453 line after his rookie year, that'd probably be a 4-5 WAR player(and again, this is your worst case scenario. Yeah, I don't know what the point of this was. Didn't he go back down for a couple weeks at the end of May, then come back up and hit even better? He spend like 3 weeks back down. But not sure what this has to do with your argument that Hiura is somehow comprable to Chourio. I don't know nor care to argue about these silly extreme and likely revisionist views you have. I did NOT say people weren't happy with him. I don't think there was the inference that he was better than deGrom. The "People" could be Clancy who still believes the great mistake of the Brewers franchise the past 25 years was squandering Braun at 3B and that we shouldn't do the same with Chourio at SS. So the "folks flipping out," at a trade for deGrom, my guess would be your dumbing it down significantly and it's as much about the monster contract that came with deGrom and the fact that the Brewers had pitching, but I don't know what point you're trying to convey. People really liked Hiura? AWESOME. So did I. That doesn't change the main point. HE IS NOT CHOURIO. HE WAS A BLACK HOLE DEFENSIVELY WHO PROVIDED NO VALUE ELSEWHERE. What disastrous injury? Like the torn ACL the unanimous Acuna Jr had this year? Yeah, he came back from that just fine. He's not a pitcher. And again, if he hits, you lose a perennial MVP candidate. If he's JUST Hiura, you're paying a little extra for an elite defender who hits for power and has exceptional speed. Downside-You get a 2-3 WAR player and you pay him market value instead of getting him cheap. The Upside-You get to keep a guy through the prime of his career on a significantly below market deal and the Brewers aren't in the same position the Braves WOULD be in right now with Acuna Jr. But PLEASE stop using, "people really liked Hiura, they wouldn't trade him for deGrom." By the way, just looking back, deGrom was in arbitration and due to become a FA at that time. I wouldn't trade Frelick for a pitcher who I know is going to leave and is a rental right now. That has literally zero correlation to signing Chourio.

IT doesn't suit the narrative.

I'd say Sheffield could be in that conversation...but Chourio has a much better attitude and the Brewers aren't in the same position. But that's it. The two prospects who are even remotely comparable through age 19 are two HOF-caliber players.

And...with those "struggles," we're a game out of the #1 seed. Gonna be a battle to avoid being that play-in team!

Just for ONE tiny, split second, stop and wonder if it's not everyone else who "doesn't get it," but maybe you? The Braves seem to "get it." The Pads seemed to "get it," with Tatis." The Mariners "got it," with Rodriguez. The latter two got it later than this, but they got it.

You don't see the downside in paying 300M in a year from now what you could get for 100M now? Man, I hope you're not a financial advisor...200M fewer dollars to build a team is a significant amount of "downside."

Nonsense. Chourio is going to have significant value even if he's NOT a 900 OPS hitter. Hiura had NO value. The two also just aren't remotely comparable beyond the both played the game of Baseball.

A-Please stop with the Hiura stuff. He's not part of the organization. B-The State fulfilling their duties as the landlord has NOTHING to do with how the Brewers allocate payroll. I don't go and spend money to fix the plumbing and put a new roof on an apartment and then browbeat the tenants because they buy a flat-screen TV. One is MY responsibility, the other is entirely their business. C-"could do this a year or two from now without costing us much?" That's just not accurate. If you do this now, you can bring him up and have him spend the entire year in the league, possibly earning another draft pick. Can't do that if you're doing the service time manipulation. But more importantly, if he has two big seasons, a top 3 ROY-type season, and then just a good but not great, season as a 21-year-old, it probably costs another hundred million to extend him. We just saw the Nationals offer Soto nearly 400M on a 10-year deal after waiting a couple of years and he turned it down. So yeah, it could VERY easily cost us to wait. Likely the opportunity to extend him altogether as you can't sign a player like this to a fair market deal, you have to extend them early. I'm baffled that people are against this.