BrewerFan

Gasser is in a totally different group from Misiorowski. Gasser is ready. He can get the call at any time. I suspect they'd prefer to get through this year without having to add him to the 40 man, but that's not a good enough reason to not bring him up. Misi, I already made my argument. I don't think it's good for his development. You're starting his clock and locking him into the 40 man at least a year before it actually makes sense to do so. And again, he's struggled at AA as a whole. He's shown great things when looking at him as a prospect. How overpowering he can be is exciting. But how wild he is-is a clear sign he needs more time to develop.

He has VERY seldom thrown a curve or really anything outside of a FB/SL. And it's certainly not an effective pitch at this point. This isn't a shot at Misiorowski. He's got almost generational type arm talent and I suspect with his spin rate, his cutter could be a Burnes type pitch...but he has to improve the command. The curve is more of a slurve, but he just doesn't throw it reliably yet. Ultimately, this is a guy who's in AA...who in 21 IP, he's walked 16 and hit another 11 batters. He's hit 2,4, 0, 3, 2 batters in those 5 games. 27 in 21IP, plus the 17 hits is why you have a ~5.60 ERA. I'm extremely excited about this kid, but I don't think he's all that close to where he needs to be.

I really think this was a product of styles. Wolf or Gutekunst as the GM most of his career and I think they'd have been much more aggressive...but Thompson just wasn't interested in FA much. Allen Robinson...who at the time was on par with Davante Adams, he turned down a deal that was reportedly 3/42 but with slightly less GTD money to sign with the Bears during the Packers big spending spree Gutey's first year as the GM. Anyway, just noticed that Clowney signed with the Ravens for 2.5M(up to 6M in ULTBE incentives). That's an outstanding deal at this time of the year. I'd have been on board with that type of signing and playing him more as a DE. He's quietly have a VERY good career despite being viewed as a bit of a bust given the ridiculous expectations, but he's rock solid vs the run year after year.

I really don't want to even plan on Misiorowski until '25, or late '24. He is just not close to being ready to be an MLB starter. Let him get some more innings in AA, then, in AZ, in the lab, he can work on that cutter, change and...maybe a CB. And then I'd start him in AA again next year. As good as these young guys are, IF they're better than who they'd replace on the roster isn't significant enough to start their clock and sacrifice their development. But if you bring him up now, he's not going to develop that 3rd pitch as it's sink or swim. You're not going to be giving him 4-5-6 innings, he'll be a reliever. And as electric as he is, his command isn't where it needs to be either. I like the aggressive promotion, but we really need him to develop into a starter. I feel like this would end up with him more likely becoming a reliever. And I get Burnes and Woody did it, but they were both 3 year College pitchers. He's already ahead of their schedule. That is a deGrom like arm and if things go according to plan, he steps in as a TOR arm for '25 when Burnes and Woodruff are likely to be gone.

??? That's in quotes...I missed that the first time through.

Ok, if that's all your getting for Adames, I think it'd make a lot more sense to keep him rather than selling low on him. And I do not think Williams would have more value. Sewald got a significantly worse return than Hader. They got a guy who's ~30 years old and a...4th OFer at best. A two guys in the 14-15 range for Seattle, not a particularly good system. That's not all that close to Gasser...plus getting back another closer and Ruiz who had quite a bit of helium. Hader has had one of the greatest starts to his MLB career for a reliever EVER. `285IP, 2.26 ERA, 15.4 K/9 He was even better in the playoffs with ~20IP, a 1.37 ERA, 1.22 FIP Devin Williams has been...GREAT. He hasn't pitched in the playoffs(injured both times) and I think we saw last year, that extra half year isn't that big of a deal. But I don't think you're getting a top 100 pitcher, a AA MIFer and then Church is a...Uribe type prospect for me. A level below, but I love that addition. I'm just struggling to see a top 100+2 more guys in AA and AAA for 2 years of Williams when we got Gasser(who is below Porter value wise). Foscue, a guy probably just outside the top 100 and then Church. I'd be thrilled though. The cost to Miller Park/Am Fam, whatever...those are gonna rise by another 200M after I start pounding on the door beating it down if they trade Quero! If you're trading a Catcher like Quero, I'm gonna want Caminero back instead. Mead is a 2B with his poor throwing arm. Maybe you throw in Lara or something, but that's who I'd wnt back. Developing catchers is 2nd only to starting pitchers and maybe more difficult. We've got a good one. I think a future AS. I don't want Mead...impressive though he may be. I don't think TB is moving off Caminero...especially with so much questions around Franco...which it SEEMS like this was from years ago, but...I don't know. I don't know how they keep developing guys like that. But assuming this WAS from when Franco was 18 and she's 19 now and her 2 year old isn't Franco's(early days, started with a Reddit post, so IDK)...but then myaybe they trade him. That'd answer 3B and then Black plays 2B and your lineup is set. Frelick/Chourio/Yelich/Caminero/Contreras/Black/Wiemer/Turang then Monastario at 2B., Black at 1B or Yelich at 1B and leave DH open or get a JD Martinez. Maybe Tellez, Hiura...IDK, but that's 8 spots set in stone for a long time...and I don't think we get Caminero back, but I'm stubborn on Quero. And I can see how much value Contreras could have in a year or two. He may be our ticket to getting a big pitcher. I'm more worried about filling in around our top prospects than trading a C for a 2B for a better fit unless you get a truly elite prospect.

As they were last year...and it was the Pads and Phillies in the NLCS. Even when we played them in '18, they were better in both facets of the game. #1 in runs, #1 in ERA. I'll roll the dice in a playoff series with Burnes, Woody, Peralta, Miley and then piecing together the back end of a BP. We've got a punchers chance. This was uncharacteristically bad defense, but...sooo many teams have won in the playoffs vs teams that were obviously MUCH better. We'll see. Uribe gives us another weapon. Lauer, maybe...IDK, any number of hitters. Black could be one or whoever. Not waving the white flag yet. Edit-Forgot about Ashby. IF-IF he comes back...that could be another multi-inning reliever who can throw in the upper 90s with some NASTY stuff(if he's actually all the way back).

LOL...ok bud. I'm sorry you don't get it, but...how long do you want to do this? How eager were you for this game to end? The Oakland A's "ceiling" over a 6 game stretch is 6-0. I honestly don't know how you don't understand this, but I'm also genuinely just not interested in this any longer.

I...I just can't help you understand what the word "ceiling" means in sports....at least anymore than I or everyone else on here has already tried to.

LOL...you still don't understand what "ceiling" means bud.

What do you think Willy goes for then? Coming off the season he's having? And what do you do with Woody? QO? Extend him if he's willing to sign for ~23-26AAV?

Well...a small distinction, the Woody deal would be kicking in next year, so he's 30.5. So you sign him now, you're signing him to the 5 year deal and you get him through 36. I feel like he's gonna be able to maintain his stuff. He's a workhorse. He's been as steady as can be minus the shoulder this year(which would be a big reason he'd take the deal). I take your point though I think he'll continue to be a very good starter. He's never really been worked real hard. He's thrown 180IP one year and then ~155. That cuts both ways though. Now...as for the Brewers not having to trade either, no, they don't. But are a couple of late picks really worth it? I guess it depends. You give me one of the Phillies top 3 pitching prospects plus a couple lower end, then do the same with Woodruff(but not as much back)...and that window with Chourio and company...it opens up MUCH wider. But maybe it all comes together next year like the Marlins with a 20 year old RHed savant or the Nats with a left handed stud? It COULD be our best chance for a WS. I don't want to trade any of them(Yelich included even though I'm the one who'd like to see an unlikely trade to clear his salary). But I'm trying to think what gives us the best chance at a Royals type run(or even a Giants type run). As for Williams, I think it depends on how we move him. By himself? I think he has less value than Hader. Not by much, but a little bit. So that's a nice deal, but there's no guarantee of a Contreras trade coming after. Gasser is great, but we need higher ceilings IMO. So that's why I'm packaging him. It's so much easier to sell a team(in theory) on a game 1 starter and a closer. That can be 8 innings of your pitching. Either way, I'm gonna be there for it.

Go back and look at how many really good to great players were drafted in the 21st round or later. This guy kinda reminds me of Mark Grace(the swing if he hunched over like Kirk Gibson and everyone from the 80s). But there's a guy in pretty much every round from 20-40 who's been a really good player. Here's a link. Not sure it's the most comprehensive link, but it gives some examples. I'm sure the list of guys who rose to become at least valuable prospects is much longer for each round; https://www.mlb.com/news/best-late-round-picks-in-draft-history-c182980276

Right...this would be the only reason I'd do it. Yeah, they could, but I don't think Payamps has anywhere near the value and he's not going to cost anywhere near as much as Williams moving forward. So I don't think the return or the savings would make that work. And again, it was more because I think teams that'll be in on Burnes like the Phils, Rangers...maybe the Dodgers, they'd be more inclined to trade an elite pitching prospect who's in AA if they're getting back 2 years of a closer on top of 1 year of Burnes. Painter+2/3 other younger arms or Porter or...whoever. This would be not punting on '24, but it's be approaching it more like the O's did to '22. Let the young guys play, get their feet wet and then hopefully the following year you're really hitting. Though for all the fans who think Mark A is cheap, the O's owner is worth 5X Attanasio, they generate more revenue and they're still not spending money.

I was 100% with ya until the "Looks like Loretta, only BETTER." C'mon. He's been an extremely valuable player. A nice utility player who can hit for a decent average...I don't think he's a career .295/.360 hitter and finished with almost 1800 hits. It's a lot to expect that or more from this kid. Hopefully he can continue to contribute and hopefully he's a utility guy for the next 5-6 years we've got him under team control. I'm not expecting him to be a regular who hits near .300 for 15 years.

Yeah, but Guerrero said a game. Now it's been a 3-4. The fact he's not on the even 7 day IL should tell you enough. They are uber cautious with their prospects...so imagine how they're treating the future of the franchise.

I'm not hanging it on Kraft, it was Clifford. But there was a play earlier in the game, Heath ran a comeback route. Came out of the break, the DB was about a yard behind him and on his back hip. The ball was inside a bit. If he sits and waits, looks to me like it's going to get broken up or it's a tough contested catch. It was with exactly 1:00 left in the 1st Q. Health works back to the ball. He used his body to shield the ball, came back to the QB about a yard inside and a yard back to the QB. I'm not saying that's a play I expect rookies to make, but when they do, it stands out. The pick was on Clifford...but the really good TEs and WRers make the game easier for the QB. Kraft DIDN'T use his body to shield the DB and didn't come back for it and Tycen Andeson took the ball away. It's not that it's Kraft's fault, it's just the type of things I'm looking for to see where Kraft's development is. It would have just been a really impressive play if Kraft could have worked back and used his body more...but again, I wouldn't put it at as a negative play for Kraft, just the potential to be a really positive play.

Yes...but that's NOT Turang's ceiling. This is the strangest argument I've ever seen. How did their ceiling go from 3-3 to now 4-2 is realistic? Is it because in less than a WEEKS worth of games...it's actually entirely possible that literally ANY team in the sport could win 6 in a row or that baseball is prone to incredibly fluky variations over short sample sizes(which is why Turang setting the HR record or going 81-0 is not the same as 6-0). You're confusing "ceiling" with likely outcomes or even better than likely outcomes. That's not what it means. Ceiling means the BEST possible range of reasonable outcomes. 81 straight games would be...unreasonable given literally nobody has EVER done it. It's SIX GAMES!!! LOL...of course it's not the most likely outcome. It's still the ceiling. This Brewers team's ceiling is World Series Champs....undisputed ceiling of this team. I think 6-0 with Burnes, Woody, Peralta, Miley going in 4 and then Houser the other two vs a rookie pitcher and then Max Scherzer...who we've faced twice this season, beaten twice 9-0(5 ERs allowed) and 3-2(2 ERs). I'll take 3-3 and be happy about it. I won't cry over 2-4 or dance circles if they go 4-2 I won't be dancing a jig. The ceiling though...is objectively speaking, 6-0.

I think he actually does. It's 6 games...our ceiling is definitely 6-0. Now if you were asking Game1 of the season what our ceiling was, if someone said 162-0, then I think you'd be right, but sweeping two three game series....though unlikely, is clearly their ceiling. And 0-6 is their floor. This one is pretty straight forward!

"So you're saying Gasser will make everyone forget about Burnes and Woodruff." Yeah...how ridiculous! I know you are, but what am I!

I've done this about 3 or 4 times now. I can explain it...helping you comprehend what you read...

I just said yesterday this is why I say outta the game threads, and off Brewers Twitter...and then tonight🤦🏽‍♂️

And I actually think it'll open wider...

Really? I thought you asked how we can win a WS in the future. I don't believe you limited it to Burnes and Woodruff as YOU'RE the one who's written this team off and already declared them done after one series in the post-season. I shouldn't say you're the "only one," I don't think anyone else has. Jopal may be in the chat. I've finally utilized the ignore user feature when people just continue to conflate arguments or create these nonsensical strawman arguments to make their points(which is probably the way to go here, but you're the wall I'm currently banging my head into for whatever reason).

The ONLY person still bringing up Ethan Small... For context though(and I'm sure you'll come away from this claiming I've anointed Small the next Koufax)...who was the biggest Ethan Small comp? Rich Hill https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hillri01.shtml So sure...MAYBE Small is one of those pitchers that helps us. He's not one anyone BUT you has mentioned, but to assuage your obsession...