BrewerFan

I would say... you've GOT to find a way to not pitch Uribe...and I might even put him on the DL with a... "calf contusion" or something. We're overworking him and Mears WAY too much. But short of that, who else? I'm also curious how bad DL's injury is. I didn't even hear of that. Short of that though... I don't know what the alternative is. Not play to win the game in front of you? We HAVE had plenty of games where our top relievers weren't available. We're starting Berroa a guy who seemingly has no interest in swinging and the oddest approach at the plate I've seen in a while...basically the little league version of 'maybe showing bunt will distract the pitcher,' on EVERY pitch before 2 strikes. We've got Chourio, Hoskins, Hall, Henderson all out, Collins and Perkins are out temporarily... guys are playing well and the other teams are committing fluke errors. I do not believe we've had a better shot in Oct if we'd have gone 9-5 in the last 14 though. I think getting that first rd bye, setting up your rotation, it puts you in a position where... you've got a shot. That's all I want. We're seeing right now how the game is so prone to fluke outcomes, but you can't pocket those for later. This has been the most fun I've had watching the Brewers since... maybe '92 and I was about 7 and watched about 1 out of every 5-6 games on TV. This is great. If they win or lose in Oct, it's not going to change the enjoyment I'm getting out of this team RIGHT NOW.

Wait...I'm not following... I don't think. Say Imanaga, he has a 20M team option, 15M PO and then those options run out and he'd still have one year of service time. Are you saying in that first contract, they explicitly decline the right to exercise their right to take him to arbitration? That'd make the most sense, but then... wouldn't that basically be the same as saying Or you just making that distinction that the highly sought players have that clause written in, it's not automatic? I know I'm late in this whole thread, but given Pratt is possibly ready late next year, more likely a couple months into '27, it's sure nice that Ortiz APPEARS to be getting back on more solid footing than when this thread was made to bridge that gap himself. That was such a black hole at the time. Especially if you bought the poor defensive metrics(which I didn't, but the bat was still so poor, it was ugly).

I don't agree with this at all. I mean, they won't ALL be affordable, but saying none of them will be? The Brewers, especially coming off this season, what will hopefully be a good playoff run and running smaller than normal payrolls recently, there's no reason to think they can't add be back in the 140-150 range. Certainly there is no reason to bring Hoskins back at this point. Jansen, I'd definitely be open to bringing him back... but we'll see where we land with others. Quintana won't be needed, he'd be affordable otherwise. If we didn't have Gasser, Myers, Henderson, Misiorowski and others ready for bigger roles in the rotation(Ashby is still viewed as a starter per Murphy and Hall may be as well). Payamps will likely be non-tendered and let walk and by mid-year there could be quite a few players who have either made or will be making their debuts. guys like Whichrowski, Hardin, maybe Hunt... and several others who have the stuff, but haven't quite harnessed it, though we've seen how guys take jumps. I really wouldn't write Woodruff off. We have a roster full of young, cheap and affordable players. As Curt Hogg said, after pointing out why the mutual option won't be picked up; That last part about Matt Arnold can talk about that....that's not related to any ongoing contract talks, that was from 2024. But I think Woody is special and a big unique. I think he wants to be here, I think the team wants him to be here and listening to him talk... I do believe there's a very real chance they could work something out. What that may be, I don't know. Maybe 3/80 is more likely, 10M already due to him. So he takes 15M in 2026, 25 in '27 and '28 and they defer some money or the 4th year is a mutual option at 15M with a 7.5 buyout and 7.5M is deferred. We're a small market team, but we do get a pretty substantial chunk from revenue sharing. is it 225-240 at this point, I don't know. I know Forbes put us ~25M in the Black. I ALSO remember it was Attanasio who stepped in and in the past signed FAs to larger deals and that left Stearns with a tighter budget, but I feel like the value in keeping him goes beyond the obvious that he can bring to the team as a pitcher(all of this again, presuming that FB comes back a couple more ticks as... that's where I think he's worth 30M+ on the open market...should he choose to pursue that). But he and Yelich are the leaders, the veterans and perhaps given how the Brewers are so much more than the sum of their parts, that's something that should be taken into consideration. Again, quite a bit has to go right from now until then, but we have a LOT of very good, young players on their way up who should fill what few area's of weakness this team has. The city is beyond the Brewers. I don't know what the balance sheet actually looks like, if they still have a lot of debt from the facilities they've built in AZ or the massive campus in the DR, but we've got some very wealthy owners and it's not unreasonable to expect them to push a few more chips into the middle from time to time. This is also different than Adames, Hader, Burnes, Williams. I think Woodruff is more important. This is all moot if Woodruff is going for every last penny, but we'll have to see. Otherwise, I think you'll see some re-signing some players. I think Montgomery would be an obvious choice. It SEEMED like a potential byproduct of bringing him in now was to see how he was healing, bring him back on a cheap 1 year deal to rebuild value. They liked him a couple years ago. He should be healthy next year. He'd be an interesting piece. But hey, we just came back from 8-1 and won our 13th STRAIGHT game...so lets enjoy THIS season!

LOL... oh... that'd be fun. MAYBE a Historically dominant rotation. But that wouldn't get it done for Skenes. If I'm Pitt, I want Made AND Pena, maybe I decide I want Pratt, but realistically, I'd say, Made, Pena, Quero, Henderson, Fischer, Knoth, Letson and then one of Patrick, Myers. They may want Priester, but that'd be weird. That'd be what I would demand if I was running the Pirates. And then I may extend it a touch perhaps. I don't know what they'd have, but a reliever or someone who could help them more now. That'd give the Pirates the #1 Farm system by ALOT. #2 wouldn't be close. They'd have a window opening is ~3 years with all their young pitching already and our Soto-esque haul would only add to it.

Man, this is... REALLY hard. 1-Turang -I've been on the Turang-Train for a LONG time. I've said he reminded me of Trea Turner for a long time... but added the caveat he'd be a better defender and he wouldn't be as good of a hitter. But similar games. Well...maybe I underestimated him. Still, for the team impact and the stability he provides, I'll go with a player I've been wrong about. I wanted the Brewers to TRY and trade Yelich not last season, after the prior. But he got a back surgery, they said it was a pretty simple surgery...and he's been in there everyday, a really good and productive player. And while his WAR is lower because he's a DH, when Murph talks about how he impacts those around him, I'll trust him. So I'll go with cornerstone player as the #1. 2-Turang here, but Collins is the most pleasant surprise. He has to be top 2 in ROY(and I feel better rooting FOR a Brewers player to win it vs against Misiorowski to). 3-Chourio Again, hate knocking Collins down, but Chourio brings more... Gravitas to the lineup, he influences the lineup more and what I think he can do better than anyone else is hit the best pitching. 4-Frelick Energy, contact, great defense. He plays almost too hard...I'd like him to stop running into the wall in foul territory, but you don't want to take that away from a guy. 5-Collins I guess. I can't make a top 5 without him. I want to put Priester here as he changed our lineup(and I HATED that trade) or Woody as he, again, has been a leader, though not someone who's taken the ball every 5th day. When he leaves, I'll be happier for him to sign a massive deal than any other Brewers player ever(while irrationally holding out hope...he will remain a Brewer). I do not have a pitcher in the top 5. Playoffs, that'll change, but this is regular season. I think if you take out... Peralta, we're still leading the division. Priester.... he may have jumped Peralta just because him coming in was SUCH a stabilizing presence. Woody, Megill, Uribe(he's been big. He's matured this year. I knew he could be a great reliever...I think everyone did, but he just had to...calm down). When you're 10 starters deep and you can't find a spot for Civale, Cortes, Myers, Patrick(who was leading or among leaders for ROY voting)... or Logan Henderson. He started in AAA after 4 starts he was 3-0 with a 1.71 ERA in. I just feel like we'd be worse without one, but they haven't been our MVPs this year. To make a run in the post-season, we'll need a couple of these guys to be.

Yeah, you're right. I said I thought it was possible Chourio was better in CF, but then misspoke here. It's tougher to get a read in the CORNER than in CF. You see the ball better where corner OF takes more reps. I know Yount said it, but before he played CF, he played LF and thought that was harder. I personally thought that... but I played like one year in HS in the OF before playing catcher. Plus... it's HS Baseball... in Wisconsin, so Yount may have a touch more credibility in this area!

IDK, Chourio started the year in CF and Frelick in the corner OF spots. It was loong before his knee issue. And yes, Perkins will get time there, but I'm thinking about the main lineup down the stretch and post-season. *It is possible Chourio is better in CF than the corner OF spots. It's harder to get a read in CF than the corner. The ball slices more and while it's always hard when a LD is hit right at you and that can get any OFer... it's either that, or they just have Chourio penciled in as their primary CFer for a decade. Lets just hope we have everyone to choose from, including Hoskins. I think he's still got a role to play. Bat off the bench? Whatever it may be, he's been in big spots and he's still a nice power bat.

I'm not entirely sure why they choose to go with Frelick in RF rather than CF? At the time I just thought it was because they knew Chourio was the future and we weren't quite so sure about Sal. We thought so... Now I'm thinking I'd rather see Chouio RF, Ferlick in CF. At least immediately upon returning. Then... swap 'em back. A little less intense running(unless you're a psycho from Boston and you're just gonna run into the wall eveytime there's a ball within 20 rows of the field anyway).

I made that mistake as well, but I think it'd really just be each guy playing and a pretty regular rotation. Maybe even Collins playing some 2B. But yeah, you have to at last put him out there every day. .300/.400(almost).... and GG defense and he's a winner. I spent so long denying chemistry in Baseball because of stories I read about teams that hated each other, but... Jeff kent and Barry Bonds were all-time greats and rare. Guys who grind and scratch and claw for every inch and you throw in some talent and stars like Chourio will be when he's an MVP candidate next year, that stuff matters. Collins starts, Mitchell gets some games vs RHP and then the players will figure it out with a hammy here or a quad there and hopefully Mitchell can stay healthy and make it really difficult. But hey.... we are 5.5 GAMES BETTER than ANY OTHER TEAM in Baseball an we've just gone 26-4 in the last 30 games, including a month in which...I thought we'd be playing good ball if we went .500. So screw next year. We've got Ueck in the OF, no longer in the Cheap Seats and.... we'll worry about DEFENDING our Title next year!

This is where I'm at. 7 years, 200M is probably fair. I HOPE he just loves Milwaukee and he's willing to sign here. The Braves would be a great fit for him, don't know if they can afford him(the Mets as well). 4 and 80... that'd be a gift and I don't even know if that'd be a gift we'd accept as silly as that sounds. That's another big commitment. I cut it at 3/60 because that's really 3/70 and that shouldn't matter, but it's still real cash that has to be paid. I'm also struggling. Would it be better to give Woody that money or would it be better to line up extensions for Misiorowski and give him at 10-15M signing bonus(that could help signing him a LOT as he's not waiting). Turang-I've been saying he's a poor man's Trea Turner since he was in AA and I'm starting to think.... he may not be so poor. 6years 60M? Probably too light. Frelick-No clue. Not a 2B so less value, but a winner. I may go close to Turang TBH even though he's not as valuable. I'm also trying to get Uribe to sign an Ashby type deal and Megill to sign for a 4/20 type deal. I suspect I'll get pushback, but these guys are SO fun and they're great. Outside of Misiorowski, it's probably just coping with the fact that Woody is likely gone.

"At his age?" He's 32 years old. Have you been watching what they pay pitchers? Wheeler just for 42M dollars over 3 years. Now he has been a workhorse, but the rest of the pitchers on these list have had more injuries than Woodruff. 25 starters make 20M a year or more(and that number is skewed with the deferred money). As we were talking about the total the Brewers would be paying Woody NEXT year which includes the 10M he's going to get either way, he'll definitely get that. I also said I don't think he'll take the hometown discount. He could sign a 3 year deal in which...I'd be shocked if he doesn't break 30-35M or he can take a long term deal in which case...7-210 is well within reach. It's expensive, but Max Fried has been riddled with injuries and he got 8 years and 218 dollars. Wheeler-42 deGrom-40.1 Glasnow-32.25 Blake Snell-Got two 30M+ deals. 34M with the Giants 5/145.6 with the Dodgers and he's had two really good years and then a LOT of injured years. Those two are certainly not the picture of health. Scherzer was making 37M at 34 with the Nats, then signed a deal for 43.3 for 3 years Verlander- was making 28M in 2015, he had TJ surgery, came back and signed for 25M after missing a full year with TJ and then made 43.3 the last two years. Greinke signed a deal for ~35 million a YEAR for...I believe 6 years. Ages 32-37(little injury history) Kershaw has signed multiple 30M a year deals. Strausburg and his length injury history got 7/240 Rondon is just shy of 30M at like 28.7 or whatever, he's about a year younger. Yamamoto got 12 and 325 before throwing a pitch. Of course Burnes just got 35M, Cole got 36M, they were healthy. And again, I was referencing an ideal world, IF Woodruff came back what our total obligations would be if he signed some team friendly deal of 3/60 which I think is very unlikely, we'd be paying him 30M next year which just changed some of the calculus on Danny Jansen and spending around the fringes, but Woodruff has had one injury and he's come MOST of the way back from it and he's really only halfway into his season. I expect him to be hitting 96-97 in the post-season. If Woodruff goes for the most money he can get(Which... as a Brewers fan I don't want to see, but as an adult now with a family...I understand and even as a diehard Brewers fan, I'd probably take the most) it's just a matter of the structure. 3- years, as we were discussing, he should get easily get 30M. 7 or even 8 years(8 years would be a waste or an option and a way to defer some money) then I'd expect 25-28 based on what he's showing RIGHT NOW. But look at the market, look at the last 5-10 years. PITCHERS can continue to throw and have success well into their 30s. Far more than hitters. Also, Woody comes back and he is throwing in the mid to upper 90s...with his command, you already know he's a pitcher that will age well. His reputation as a leader and the antithesis of a clubhouse cancer, but someone who mentors pitchers and WANTS to be around the team, those aren't things that get you paid 30M, but they are things that can push a team who is considering 5/125 to 5/150...IMO. Especially given the desperate need for SPers out there. We live in a utopia where we keep finding them, but even then, Woody may be the best pitcher in Brewers history when you look at his consistency, leadership, everything. I would actually argue looking at the list of pitchers, Woody is younger than when a LOT of them got 30M, a lot got just shy of 30M(27, 28 like Fried) and the BIG notch in Woodruff's column is he doesn't HAVE to come back and throw 97-98 to be worth it. I still think the further away from shoulder surgery he gets, the more likely, but he's proving he's expanded his repertoire and he can hit his spots. And he'll give up some HRs...who doesn't. But they're RARELY with men on. He's not giving you free passes. He's attacking. Finally, I think the shoulder injury should be a relatively minor concern by the end of the year. Once you come back from it, you're in good shape. You come back, rebuild the strength, you're not at any more risk than anyone else(which to be fair, is always a good amount, but it's no higher than any other pitcher). So I'd say give Woody 30M before Glasnow or whoever else will be getting it this off-season or next. I'd take Woody moving forward over Burnes and TJ is a surgery most come all the way back from.

Man, I don't know... I felt like I was about 2-8 the start of the year. I feel like I'm 39-0 the second half of the year. I've only been to 19 games. I'm gonna guess 14-5 in Milwaukee 1-0 in Chicago

Yeah, he may not have taken the best care of his body, but he went out there and threw... and even when his shoulder was bad, he went out there for the team and it may have cost him his career. THAT... FA or not, I'd also hope we wouldn't do. I mean...maybe in the WS and elbow, but not shoulder. He did get paid after that IIRC. 10M by Oak and then a couple more years. So...that was...something. Done by 28 though. That command and that 12/6 hammer. Nasty.

It goes even further back than that(as it always will for developing pitchers). Jones and Rogers had great stuff. But this organization with Sheets? He's not throwing 153 IP his first year in Pro-Ball and then 675 from 23-25. They may have added a Change. Parra... he had great stuff. That was supposed to be Sheets and Yo and then we trade for CC(and Yo did come back...kinda). But maybe Sheet's arm doesn't fall off, Para develops. But all the trial and error and even Gilber Lara got us here. To 2-3 of the top ~20 prospects, not 4/5ths your class on one Salas type player(unless it's Sasaki) and hope you hit. I thought back then it was better to trade for Greinke vs CC. Both were rumored to be available, one had team control. Maybe we get a couple more runs with Greinke. We ALMOST certainly don't get THAT run with him.

Yes, I forgot about Collins. I don't think they'll trade Mitchell to start the year. He's got so little value and so much talent. I think it's more likely they give it another go and hope he can stay healthy. If he can't, he'd be done. If he can... well, I think he'd be done in Milwaukee. If he had a big year, I think they'd likely trade him. They can go with Collins, Mitchell, Perkins, Chourio, Frelick and Lockridge can start the year in AAA. Yelly is likely the full-time DH until someone forces the issue. That was also obviously not the season opening lineup as I don't think there's any chance Wilken goes from AA injury to MLB next year. They'll at least give him 2 months of ABs...or Adams. Or maybe Fischer is that good and he pushes for a spot. -As for Murphy moving Turang off of 2B, his natural position is SS. He was drafted as a SS, he won the job as a SS and he got a dead arm. That's pretty common in ST'ing. Murphy had even said that Ortiz at 2B and Turang at SS was "better for both people." Then came the dead arm and they went back to Ortiz to SS and Turang to SS, but I can't possibly see why that would be a permanent placement. His arm go tired... it's not much. If it comes down to Turang and Durbin vs Ortiz and Turang. If the later duo is better, that's what I think they'll go with. If it's the prior, that's what they should go with. I think it'd be kinda silly to not move him. Ideally, Ortiz would hit and we'd have even more options. You could play Collins, Turang and I guess Durbin at 2B vs RHPers. Or just swap out Ortiz and Turang vs LHPing. This scenario also came down to Wilken playing 3B and Adams at 1B...so it's at BEST a couple months into the season and most likely... not how it'll play out. But Wilken is the MORE likely player to make it up and I'm just going off the lineup this year(minus the glaring omission of a .290/390 GG caliber LFer). Best case scenario? Ortiz hits like last year or like he has for a while now this year. .265/.306/.400 and a .706 OPS. That's good enough. He's really bad vs RHPing though... so I could still see him getting some days off vs righties in the future. No, Jansen will be declined. I'd said I hope they bring him back on a ~6M type deal. Maybe a 5M with a mutual and a 1.5 buyout. I'm not sure what the market will be, but I don't think it's going to be all that strong and that Appleton kid may want to stick around for another year. A lot of these deals would be contingent upon the small likelihood they work something out with Woodruff. You'll be paying him 30M next year IF he takes a team discount...so if that happens, the Brewers made a historic run to the World Series and generated tens of millions of dollars AND players want to come back. If by some shock they bring Woody back, then... I'd assume it'd be Hasse as the backup C, I'd also imagine they would add very little else. I'm not sure they need to add much. Shelby Miller might be nice, but he'd likely come in around 7-8M next year at least. I to think Jansen taking some games at catcher has helped Contereas take a little break.

The 10M buyout isn't a problem so much as... a sunk cost. He's getting that either way. So the contract he'd sign would be entirely separate from that. They could restructure I suppose. Make it 3/75 and defer some I suppose. Woodruff would really have to want to stay in Milwaukee though.

It certainly couldn't have hurt, but I don't recall much about any of them. Their spin rates or... even what they threw. A big part is identifying the right players. The one guy I think they could have really hit on is Wily Peralta. Upper 90s with that sinker that had a lot of movement plus a slider that was good... at times. He's the main guy I think they could have really helped, but I'm sure if we'd have taken those guys, we've have gotten a lot more out of them.

This also reminds me of a discussion we had regarding IFA money. Should we be spending 10M on the IFA infrastructure and signings or add that one FA each year. Who was the guy this year we almost all thought they should sign? Yoan Moncada. Nobody is trading Made, Pena, Uribe and Chourio(this last year during his rookie season) for 1 year of Yoan Moncada playing 3rd. Now, if Nestor Cortes had had a normal Nestor Cortes like season, this trade would look even more ridiculous(still don't like giving up Quintana, but we've established...I'm wrong about trades this year). But we got a 2.2 WAR upgrade for the league minimium. https://stathead.com/baseball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=moncad000joh&year_min=2025&player_id1=durbin000cal&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_id=durbica01&utm_source=br&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison

My keyboard and mouse are... acting weird making it difficult to type. I hadn't really finished my thought, but the economics aren't so different that what Bando did with Molly was justified. He wanted him to take a paycut and really, just didn't want him back. They were cutting spending after several big signings(for the period) like Higuera, Stubbs, maybe Wegmen, IDR all of them, but it was 5 maybe 6 guys who were making good money(Pleasac was making a couple M which... it's almost like 1M then is equal 10 in today's money. BUT... the important part here is the part in bold. They are making an investment in more than just scouting and signing draft picks, they're really invested in the infastructure of developing the players and they're all in on maxing out their bonus money/IFA money. I did wonder if maybe trading pick #33 was because they were going to be close to 20M and that was just more than they wanted to spend... but you watch Priester pitch and... nope, I was wrong. I thought Civale was just a deal to move him for the first player with a comparable salary and maybe it was and they're that lucky, but I suspect it's as much do to with a VERY deep pro personnel department that is a step ahead of most everyone else. You wonder who is looking at Priester and saying, 'nah, we can fix that, go give up a borderline top 100 prospect, the 33rd pick and a pitcher for this 1st rd bust, or looking at Vaughn and think he's worth taking a shot at trying to get him to be more selective. Another thing about Attanasio, he's got a reputation for giving younger guys a chance, he pays them above market rate and he's loyal...and since Lohse, he's stayed out of the decision making(or his well intentioned meddling is a better way to put it perhaps). But right up there with extending young players, I'd be making sure our scouts and those pitching coaches and Charlie Moore are being compensated well enough as I'd be poaching them if I were any other organization.

They let arguably the most popular player in Brewers history go(not counting Braves player or even Aaron as "Brewers" players) go in Molitor over less than 800K. And they made the offers. I don't know that they did this ever, even when they were bad, but if they were going cheap in the first round signing a guy like Payne(which they still need to pay 75%)... just to save money, not to spend money later, that'd be a problem. They're just weren't able to spend above their bonus this year or last, but not due to lack of effort. And even those bad teams, I wouldn't even say they didn't go after high upside players, but they put so much on the backs of prep pitchers. Huge risk/reward there. Gold, Neugebauer, Sheets, Rogers, Jones, the list is loong. There was no real Latin American program. I don't know how they signed Teddy Higuera, but take the LA players out of the equation here and this is a good, not great team and the future... it looks...alright. That LA system seems like it gives the Brewers more room to work in the draft...if that makes sense. They can take a couple chances...and they're working out great. And yet...they STILL find these guys who hit WALK OFF HOME RUNS... like it's nothing. Just pick up a LFer who takes the first 100m closer deep...things like that!

I said this for the last month. 'Great, Vaughn's up... rally's over.' And then he gets an RBI double with 2 strikes or he hits a 3-run bomb. Some players, being on good teams keeps them more dialed in vs being on historically bad team last year... now a just awful team. I'd imagine it's an entirely different approach. That could explain some of the improvement in swing choices. Maybe he just figured it out later. Maybe we just happened to get him when he was on a Geoff Jenkins like burner. The upshot is, Hoskins should be back and next year... hopefully Wilkens, Adams will be healthy to provide some depth. If Vaughn can keep up his plate discipline, that's better than anyone we could have added.

Adams has the higher walk rate, the higher projected walk rate by Steamer, he hits for much more power. And...AGAIN, he's not a prospect in the Milwaukee Brewers farm system. So we're going to have to trade quite a bit to give up a guy who's 4th-to 6th(again, in every ranking I've seen) in a top 10 systems top 10. And Adams has played primarily 3rd base until Wilken bumped him off it and he's stolen 30 and 28 bags the last two years. So I'm not real concerned with his glove at 1sts and I certainly think it's ridiculous to say "Morgan gets on base without getting hit," which is more sustainable while ignoring who walks more. There's also the power and that's not even comparable. No, not really. Diaz is likely gone. It's strange you think he's this perfect fit, but you wouldn't think Tampa Bay would? You think they'll choose a 33 year old making 12M, a player who has been part of trade rumors for a couple years or do you think they'd go with the guy who can play both corner OF spots, where they have an 83 OPS+ and a 90 OPS+. It's not like Tampa Bay is overflowing with talent there... so 4 spots in the lineup for him to play. I don't think there are a lot of bodies blocking him. I'm more than happy to take a walk rate over ~20% for a K rate of ~26% ... especially when it comes with massive power. In any event, skepticsm is fine. That's probably why we've drafted a 1B and 3B in the first rd the last two years(a 3rd if you include Ebel, though he's on a different time line from the two College bats we took). Just throwing him into a group of prospects with Carlos Rodriguez, Yoho, Tyler Black... who is definitely undervaluing him. Carlos Rodriguez really isn't a highly rated prospect. Tyler Black is a LHed hitting 1B/DH and maybe Corner OF. Lockridge is a RHed hitting 70 grade speed CFer and can play all 3 OF spots. I don't see Black being passed over for Lockridge. I also didn't like trading Quintana... not sure that means you could have just swapped Black in or... how this really pertains to what I was saying. I didn't like that deal. I also said I didn't like the deal for Priester and I didn't like getting Vaughn back. So I'm gonna trust Arnold as he seems to be doing fine. But sure... trading an 18 year old SS didn't feel necessary. They may have think much higher of Lockridge than we have. Right... and I agree he'd be a nice addition. I'm just not sure why the Braves will be looking to move off him. And Durbin doesn't need to play SS. We've still have Turang and Ortiz. I don't think Alvarez is viewed as someone who can do more than just fill in at short with his defense, but... I'd also like him. I think he'll be much more expensive than Castro however. I suspect you'd have to give up a fairly substantial package to acquire him and... by this time next year, we're going to have a whole lot of players pushing for playing time across the IF. But if Yoho, Carlos Rodriguez and Tyler Black gets it done, I would be thrilled. No, it's not, but when talking about trading for prospects, I think it makes sense to try and view it from the other teams perspective. Also looking at if that trade is necessary given in-house options. And yes, there's plenty of make believe... and this is generally how we talk about them. For instance, when people were talking about a "Yelich like trade," and suggesting we give up a Made or Pena for Abrams or Henderson. That was certainly an appealing idea... but it was pointed out Washington didn't seem like they were in a position to trade away their young, controllable SS. I believe we've long been interested in Ramirez. I think that's a trade we'd have made work... but he seems happy there. But sure, that's a player I'd be happy giving up one of the 18-year-olds in Appleton for.

Yeah, I was thinking about 1B and how they(Vaughn and Adams...Jesus...I still wasn't clear when I clarified) would split the time there at 1B, basically just thinking about how much credence I'd put in Vaughns 3-4 week stretch now and then I went back and added Ortiz. So I definitely meant Ortiz would play SS, just misspoke. We brought Back Betancourt to play 1B after his Gold Glove caliber 2011 season, right? Talking about Ortiz playing SS on NEXT years team would be... up there with that! LOL...so yes, that was a mistake.

I didn't see others had replied, but...he kept arguing. Well... they're a top 5 farm system by most mid-season rankings. #2 by Kiley and Bleacher Report, #4 by Fangraphs... If you're talking about Carlos Rodriguez, sure. I don't know what you mean about "the worth of pitchers that are strictly relievers in the minor... that no one reads AA or A pitcher to be named later." I have no idea what that means? They have maybe one guy in their top 30 who is a "strictly reliever," and that's Yoho and his change and similarities to Devin William and just the movement on that Change has him worth a LOT more than a PTBNL. Alverez would be a great addition, but I think Durbin will eventually be that utility guy. I don't think we'd trade what it costs to get him. He was a top 100 prospect and he may have lost some value but the Braves are a team that's going to be competing next year. With the injuries to Albies, Riley, and just lack of offensive ability at SS...where the Braves started playing him more and he held his own. I think he'll have a big role for ATL. Beyond that, I think Durbin is our future Utility player. He can play 2B, 3B, Turang can play SS. Wilken likely takes over at 3B. He was probably close to getting a callup this year, leading AA in OPS by a wide margin(ahead of Luke Adams who was 2nd) and hitting 18HRs, again, far and away the league leader prior to his injury, again ahead of Adams. His AAA promotion was even leaked. So Wilken spends a couple months in AAA, he hits, he gets called up this Sept as a power bat off the bench. He's got more upside than Durbin and Durbin doesn't have the power. His best role is as a utility player. I like Tre Morgan as well... but again, he's not going to be cheap. I don't know that we're going to give up the prospect capital to add a 1B when we have multiple guys ready to take over 1B in the next year. Luke Adams... athletic, big 1B who has been playing 3B. Big time power, he's young, walks a ton, hits for power and gets on base. Burke, hitting over .300, Fischer is a guy who'll move fast... he's either a 3B or 1B. Someone will have to DH. Maybe that's Yelich, it'd be nice if a couple of those guys lived up to their projection and could be .240./400/.500 guys like Adams/Wilken or .275/.375/.500 guys like Fischer or a .300/.370./.430 guy like Burke. But... as we know, that seldom happens. Bitonti is not far behind. He seems like a .220/.350/.500 and 30 HR type bat, but Corner OF/1B. Either way, LOTS of power bats. The Willingness to include Wilken so easiyly AND put him in a group with Yoho, Black and Carlos Rodriguez should be a pretty good sign that we're underrating our power. Wilken was leading the Southern League by...again, a lot in OPS and HRs. More when you take out the guy he who was #2 was also a Brewers prospect. .392 OBP, .550 SLG and 18 HRs(Adams=.241/..422/.477 and a 900 OPS with 11 HRs). You really want to trade Wilken or give up a bunch when...both those problems could be solved by June. 1-Frelick-RF 2-Chourio-LF 3-Yelich-DH 4-Contreras-C 5-Turang-SS 6-Vaughn/Adams 1B 7-Mitchell-CF(for however long, then Perkins, a switch hitter and hell, maybe Lara by the end of next year/) 8-Wilken-3B 9-Durbin Bench Jansen, Tyler Black(1B/Corner OF), Ortiz(He'll probably start most game at 1B if he can get his OPS back to 700), Lockridge(CF/LF/RF), and I'm thinking Siegler(C, 3B, OF) or Adams rotating in at DH/1B/LF I'm not real confident in Lockridge, but I was been strongly disliked and hated the Priester trade, the Vaughn trade, absolutely dumbfounded that we had to give up Quintana and Cortes for a AAAA type prospect, but...just means he'll become PCA with a better OBP.

Carols Rodriguez has no value in a trade at this point. Do you think that may be why you want to trade him for everyone? You realize that? He's a guy with a ERA well over 4 in AAA. We've needed guys who could throw a couple innings or protection numerous times and if we had any confidence in him, we'd have gone with him rather than having to add a guy to the 40 man and use an option. You're not getting a guy with a 60 grade bat and a potential GG 1B... and a guy who can competently play in the OF for that. He's a top 4-6 prospect in the Rays system. They have a top 10 system. He profiles VERY much like a Rays player...a guy who can hit, a little unorthodox for a 1B without great power. They need 1B/DH/Corner OF. I'd expect them to move Yandy Diaz this year as that's how the Rays operate. An older hitter, 12M, final year of his deal... probably not a QO guy(but could be)...Aranda is a 1B/2B/3B guy, not Morgan, but if they move Morgan, they're not giving him away for our scraps. If we could deal Carlos Rodriguez for anyone who was useful in any role... I suspect we'd have done so. He's a guy we trade for another teams scraps if we find a lefty who's flamed out and has something we think we can turn around. He's not the guy you trade for a top ~5 prospect(minus the '25 draft, he's up to 4th in the system, I'd imagine he drops to 5-8 after they had a very deep draft) in a good system. Are you giving up Mike Boeve or...hell, Brock Wilken for pitcher who looks like he MIGHT crack a bad MLB rotation at some point, but more serves as the long man on a bad team.