BrewerFan

YOU-ARE-THE-ONE-I-AM-TALKING-TO. You're just talking right past everyone and you refuse to actually engage, don't you? So since this is a strawman and you've declared that NOBODY but you(and a few other people) want to "make a few trades," I'll answer this question. Never. I don't EVER want to trade a guy who's on the same level as a prospect as Chourio but at SS and trade him for a 2 month rental. Since you can't answer that VERY simple question and refuse to say anything but parrot "make a trade...make a trade," I'll go to the other same braindead extreme. Seriously though... get over the Dodgers sweep. We were on a hot streak, they'd lost 10 of 12. That's not the point you're making it out to be. That's NEVER a reason to trade guys like Made, Pena, Pratt for 2 months of a guy. And I'm going to assume it would take players like that as you don't consider Priester a big trade and somehow think it matters that it's viewed most positively in hindsight than it was at the time! LOL...so what? That's literally the ONLY thing that matters. How it ends up working out.

Yeah, if it's Yoho, I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought. You have to pay more than the comp pick the D-backs are going to get for Suarez. That's... probably not going to do it. I'm thinking with all the teams that want Suarez and his numbers, you're looking at something closer to Henderson AND a lower level prospect or Wilken+. That's what I wouldn't do. But Yoho and Lara or Yoho and Boeve? That's an easy decision to me. I think it's going to take a lot more than that. The "it's time to go all in," is more the Cubs this year with Tucker set to be a FA and them making. That was a little desperate and now they really kinda have to pay him 500M+ or they traded for a year and a supplemental pick.

All you're choosing to do is complain on a message board that you're the only one who wants to win by demanding... someting. You won't quite say what or what we're supposed to give up, just... something. You've been asked, would you trade Made, Pena, Pratt, Quero, Henderson...for a rental. Is that smart. I've not seen an answer. You're not making any "choice" that involves the Brewers beyond that. My "choice" is to hope the Brewers DON'T trade players who could be stars for the Brewers for 7 years. This reminds me very much of the conversation from just last year where the argument was made that we'd be better off spending 10M more on payroll vs putting that money toward the IFA and DR Facilities. Just short sighted. But again, it's actually hard to say as you haven't actually said anything other than just repeating how we beat the Dodgers(over and over) and that means we need to make a big trade... but not sure for who. I haven't seen anyone here who's against a trade. I've seen people here who are against treating this as some unique season where you have to give up a top 10-25 prospect in MLB because... this is such a rare year and we beat the Dodgers.

According to the MJS, it's 35%-38%. I believe he originally purchased 45% and then as Rodgers or Giannis have come in, he's sold small % of his share, but still remains the principal owner.

You're wrong. His ownership stake is in the mid to upper 30s. 37% was last I heard. And he also said they can afford to add anyone at the deadline... just in terms of payroll. This, "the hell with it, what's the point, I'm sick of losing in the first round," ideology is...so deeply, deeply flawed. And you're using the sweep of the Dodgers as some proof that this is the year they NEED to add players. So then...what do you trade? Just whatever it takes? Does that guarantee you anything? We were nearly 10 games better than the Braves when we lost to them. Beating the Nats when they came back to beat us with Hader on the mound(also lost to the Braves with Hader on the mound). Here's the reality. These "go for it," trades you're talking about, it's a marginal improvement on their chances for this year, but if you give up a guy like Pratt of Quero, it's going to cost you for nearly 7 years. 6 years and 4 months of service time. So you want to trade a top 100 prospect for a 2 month rental of a guy who has hit 27 of his HRs in AZ and very few on the road? What trade would be good enough that you wouldn't blame Attanasio(who again, has already said they can afford financially to add ANY player this year)? It's going to be a VERY high standard as you've completely dismissed Priester as a big move.

Are you saying it's NOT? Yophery Rodriguez, the 33rd pick and a pretty good pitching prospect for Priester. If THAT isn't big, nothing is going to satisfy you... What do you think he'd cost now in a trade? 6 years of team control over a guy with an ERA in the low 3s who is going deep into games? But that's... not a big trade?

I'm sorry, but we can get Suarez in this scenario for Boeve and Myers and everyone wants to stand put? I have been saying don't give up big time assets for a rental, but... what are these two guys really worth? Tyler Black is suddenly VERY unpopular. Boeve seems like a less athletic version of Black. Myers...eh, saw something about him hitting 98 in AAA on here. That seemed hard to believe when I saw him throw a couple innings. It's not Logan Henderson. That's a trade I'd jump at. I think it's absurd to talk about Pratt, Quero(much less the top 2) or Henderson for a 2 month rental, but I'm 100% fine with that deal. Where is Boeve playing in the future? Not 2nd, not 3rd, he's likely a DH... who doesn't have great power.

If I was the GM, I'd have a lot more information regarding self scouting. But the #1 thing I'd be doing would be trying to build around Chourio. The other two professional sports teams in the state have given you the blue prints of how you DON'T do it. The Bucks pressed and now they're stuck in this purgatory with a superstar. Baseball is different. You can constantly make bad trades and there are so many ways to acquire young talent(as the Padres have shown) you can make up for them. Meanwhile, the Packers under Thompson were uber conservative. The thing is... we all know Baseball is different. In those sports, if you're the best team, you have a MUCH better chance of advancing. In Baseball, we saw a GG OFer watch the ball go under his glove to lose to the future WS champs in the first rd, we've seen Hader twice give up runs in the playoffs in a series deciding game, vs Washington and the Braves. We saw the Brewers get SO many men on base and just smoke the ball about a dozen times and hit LDs right at the D-Backs...who of course made a WS run and we were a late inning HR off Jeremy Jeffress, someone who'd given up a BA of like .120 on his splitter AFTER he walked in a run the previous inning(I'll never believe the Dodgers weren't one of the teams cheating that year when they cried foul about the Astros more egregiously cheating). So...PERSONALLY, while I want to win this year badly... and I think they have a very real chance, I'm really looking at surrounding Chourio with Frelick/Turant atop the order, Made the switch hitter who walks and hits for power batting 2nd, Chourio, the MVP caliber player by this point hitting 3rd, Yelly, Contreras and then Pena, Adams, Pratt, Collins rounding out that lineup. The way our farm system looks, we have 2-3 players at every position, so even with the normal rate of guys who don't develop, the GOAL should be to get to a point where you don't have a whole in your lineup and you don't need to get into a bidding war for a 2 month rental. So the bottom line is what are the chances we're trading a guy like Fernando Tatis Jr for a James Shields to try and give ourselves a 2% better chance of winning? Is if 5% better? What are the odd that Made, Pena, Adamczewski, Dinges, Quero, Pratt, Wilken, Adams become star players? It may be a cop-out, and I know this ideology pisses off many Brewers fans to no end, but if I think Adamczewski can be a .300 hitter, play CF/2B maybe some 3B and SS and be a super utility player while putting up several ~4 WAR seasons, I'm probably not doing it. If I think Collins is the type of player he'll develop into(but at an earlier age) I'm not pulling the trigger. If I think Fischer is really the best bat in this draft, I'm much more inclined to trade Burke, Adams or Wilken. So knowing what I don't know, the top tier players I'm willing to trade are; Wilken, Patrick, Myers, Areinamo, players on that teir for a rental. For someone with team control for 2+years(so say the Twins, I want to add Castro and Durhan and then you can always flip him) I'd go up to Henderson+Wilken+Yoho and probably dig a little deeper if you can get Durhan or Bautista from Minnesota/Baltimore. Castro is not a huge upgrade to me, his defense isn't good, but O'Hearns is a bigger one. So you'd addjust accordingly. It's not even a given Duran or Bautista are available. And I'm sure people will disagree, but I think the more likely and best avenue to really improving this team for a playoff run is another just dominant reliever. One you can use like we used Hader back in the day. Bring them in at any time of the game. Or just copy the Royals and have those three overpowering trio at the end of the game. Finally, I'd be open to trading Quintana. I don't think you're getting back alot, but if you can get a couple prospects that you can then throw into a trade, I'm more than happy to swap out Cortes for Quintana. Cortes should be ready soon as he just threw 93 pitches tonight. I know, a lot verbose and a bit vague, but I just don't think there are a lot of great fits and if we're going to and give up a top 100 prospect, I think a dominant reliever who can overpower guys is at least as valuable. Keep shortening the games, try and get a bat who can help vs RHPing and I think we're right in the race without giving up Pratt or Quero.

Well, that's a helluva lot better than throwing Pratt and Henderson into the conversation for a utility IFer who's not particularly great defensively, not likely to play at SS and effectively even with Durbin overall(though the splits help, they don't make up for the talent you're giving up).

Mears 2.54 ERA, .85 Whip and 2.73 FIP is a "back end" of the BP? Seems like he's the 3rd guy behind Megill and Uribe... Anderson has been very good as well, but he's also a former Texas Ranger. He's also been very valuable in his role for us. But fine... we could trade them. It's require us to go out and then replace them and do so from a position of weakness vs strength... and you think with all the relievers on the market, the Rangers would just...trade for a guy like Duran, Bautista, Clase, Griffin Jax or Helsley or just...so, so many relievers. But now here's where I'm really confused. We're going to trade a top 50 prospect as well as a very valuable young pitching prospect like top 100 prospect Logan Henderson, Chad Patrick or...Coleman Crow. And we're getting back a slightly better version of Durbin? This is all before we end up trading a young IFA who was IIRC, our top or 2nd top prospect and we're going to get back a reliever who's 31 or a young SS/P back? I'd do this if we get Seager and they are going to pay 120M of what he has left on his deal...while throwing in Adolis Garcia(who could actually help...good underlying metrics this year). But that's... how bad of a trade this could potentially be within the parameters of your proposal. He suggests Pratt and Payne in the same sentence. I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer those two to Adamczewski, but it's still a terrible deal.

Yes. I think this is a quiet need for the Brewers. Getting a bit annoyed with the use of Ashby. I argued with wieguy about the Brewers using him just fine... that he came back, they kinda eased him in. The Dodgers game, I was fine with keeping him in even up 7-0, but this last time, they were up 5 or 6-0 vs the Mariners? That's the type of game you have Anderson for. Anyway, Ashby could be another high leverage reliever, but a guy who slots in before Mears? Or allows you to bring Uribe in for the 5th or 6th inning in a playoff game to kill a rally. I'd be all on board for that.

My mistake, I thought he still had a couple years of team control.

It's pretty hard to compare the systems. I don't know anything about Seattle's depth. I know their top 10 is loaded. Are they as deep? Meccage and Gasser is giving up quite a bit. But Naylor has team control for a couple years. Also doesn't have to match exactly.

We could do a Bobby Bonilla like deferred contract! 5 million a year for the next 40 years?

No, not a shot. And sure he may be "years" away from Milwaukee. I'd expect him to move up to HiA this year. Maybe start in HiA next year and then move to AA next and...once you hit AA, you're on the verge, but probably 2 years away. You don't trade players like Pena or Made for a rental. And this is how you started this post. So Wilken is off the table, but Made(or Pena who some have ranked even higher) is? Made is a home grown power bat... at SS who walks and steals bases. This is like trading Chourio 3 years ago. Just a non-starter for 2 months of a guy who performing well above his career norms. Hell, If Aaron Judge was available... I probably wouldn't trade Jesus Made or Luis Pena(I'd definitely trade Wilken or Adams). But there's a direct contradiction here. It's just an issue of impatience on your part. Wilken...AA(though out for the year) and Made in LowA. Not a good way to determine value.

A little surprising that was the most given to an OL, but I'd guess that's because the Packers are pretty firm about not paying GTD money other than the SB. So they have a lot of large Signing Bonuses, but not as much GTD money after. Maybe some roster bonuses, but those aren't GTD at the time of signing. Anyway, I think this was actually a pretty team friendly deal. I don't see a big difference in value when you differentiate LT and RT any longer. I thought 25-28M could have been the target. 22-23M is a good number for the Packers.

I'm with you... other than Mitchell, I just don't see any trade value there, but Pratt has a ton. A 6'4 SS who is smooth with the glove and we'll have for almost 7 years. And then on top of that... he doesn't make you that much better this year...IMO. You can't try him at 3B. You could try him at 1B, but that's a waste of his athletic ability(though not 6'7 frame). I'd definitely prefer to do this for Cruz over Suarez though. This is really interesting question.

If they're getting Pratt back...it's probably not all that far off. I wouldn't trade Pratt but if Cruz was on the Brewers... it'd almost be like Chourio. You'd be thinking it's a matter of when, not if. He's GOING to break out and have that 40/40 season. And I don't care if he hits .230 doing it. Suarez hits for a low average, but he does a lot of damage.

I think you make that trade without a second thought. He's not that expensive and the guy has as much talent as anyone in the game. Just 5 tool player who needs to reign his game in a bit but absolutely has superstar potential. Best bat speed, arm, exit velo. A guy that hits the ball that hard would probably do well in Milwaukee. I imagine there's a lot of other teams drooling thinking about what could be with him. So I wouldn't trade for him as they'd almost certainly want a WHOLE lot more than C-Rod, Boeve, Black and Ernesto. They'd likely want a top 100 prospect and maybe a Boeve or couple other prospects. Teams would be trading for both what he is now...which is a flawed player who hits the ball harder than anyone in the game but doesn't hit it enough and not as a decent CF who is not good in the IF and has a lower 700s OPS. He wouldn't be close to as bad of a hitter over the course of the year as Ortiz. He's also been a better hitter than Contreras. Ranking hitters by BA is a terrible way to rank them and even in that category, he's better than Ortiz. OPS. OBP+SLG. The guy also steals a LOT of bases and I think he'll turn into an elite CFer with more time out there. But I don't think he can play SS.

Yeah, I know DRS has him grading out poorly... I just don't believe it. Two contrasting reference points. Baseball Savant places him among the elite defensive SS's. We've watched Ortiz. So my eyes and one set of metrics(the one I generally default to). Or Fangraphs DRS and I don't trust my eyes. That's my issue here. Suarez 100% looks like a "real difference maker." He does. Put him in this lineup with Yelich, Chourio both getting hot, hopefully Contreras heating up, still have some faith in Hoskins in a big spot and it's possible Black can be a bit of a spark plug for us(a non-zero chance anyway, he was right there with Frelick, Last 5 years, Suarez has a line of .229/.315/.439 and a 754 OPS, 107 OPS+ and ~26 HRs a year. This year, 36 HRs, .254/.325/.598 for a .924 OPS Are you giving up the player who'll be coming up next year and filling a hole at SS for the Brewers(or 3B). I'm guessing it's more likely 2027 or late next year in case of injury, but he's only 20. I look at all the teams, I think it's at least Pratt or Quero+ for either. That's really hard for me to justify, but I understand people want a bigger bite at that apple.

Yeah...I did not like that. I'm over it. Now... feels like you'd have to go Henderson MAYBE Quero/Pratt to get Suarez. I don't want that either. Maybe I'll be wrong on both counts, but Priester was a talented arm we were buying low on, but we had 6 years. You get Suarez, at BEST he's who he's been this year and particularly as of late. Most likely, he doesn't keep up this past and you may have traded an elite defensive SS who draws walks and hits for power. I'm glad it's not my call and I appreciate the fact we have Made and Pena(both of whom I'd put JUST behind Chourio and Misiorowski as nearly untouchable)... but we can keep winning because we don't blow our best young talent like the Padres do. And even then, they could sign Machado and Tatis, Boegarts, and then...whoever else. They've been outstanding as acquiring young talent. Just imagine if they were patient enough to let it develop? I ALSO think we gave up a lot for Priester and I think that is the result of having a deep and talented system. It's kinda hard to offer your 25th ranked prospect for a player you want... but there's less separation from the ~10th prospect to the 25th prospect that I can remember. My guess is the Brewers could swing a deal for Quero+Henderson for Suarez. Is that a deal people want? Otherwise Pratt and a lower level prospect. Maybe that is good enough. That's... LOT to give up. I do not think we're getting him for Chad Patrick, Tobias Myers or a pitcher like that. Too many teams could use 3B help and right now he's a top 10 hitter.

What metrics are we using here? When I see the metrics, they match what I see on the field. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/joey-ortiz-687401?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

They were both on the verge of a AAA promotion and leading AA by quite a bit in OPS. Adams had a .425 or so OBP. I wasn't expecting a promotion, but... it's hardly a stretch they get a call up if there is an injury at their position. If you hit well in AA, you're always close to being called up.

Luis Pena I get that Made is the bigger name, but Pena has 70 speed, he looks like a guy who'll hit .300, hit for... solid power and could be an outstanding defensive 2B(or stick at SS). Jesus Made Switch hitting power hitting IF'er. Giving me Jose Ramirez vibes. Cooper Pratt JJ Hardy with better plate discipline...and the ability to cover the inside part of the plate.Jeferson Quero Defensive first catcher who can hit .280 and hit for a little power?Braylon Payne One minor little tweak to his step that I'd prefer to see adjusted a bit, but it's nit picking. Right now he looks like a guy who can play an elite CF, steal some bases, he's got good plate discipline and decent power and with is frame, more could come. Not the 2nd coming of the Kid, but very impressive as an 18 year old in A-ball. Luke Adams I don't think he's Adam Dunn, but I think there's some similarity there(from the right side). Better athlete, but I think he's going to hit ~.220, walk 12-15% of the time and hit for a lot of power. One of my favorite prospects. Marco Dinges Offensive first catcher who looks surprisingly capable as a catcher given the limited PT there at FSU. Logan Henderson 8 seems a bit low for Henderson, but I love the guys above him. Robert Gasser Gasser has already shown he can pitch at this level. Andrew Fischer A pretty safe bat. If he can hit .250+ his power will make him an extremely valuable player. Brock Wilken Bad luck, but he's got huge power. He's not going to be Brooks Robinson at 3B, but he's got a big arm. And with #1, #2 and #3, he may be destined for 1B/DH anyway. Blake Burke Reminds me of Joey Votto when he was coming up. Very patient hitter, hits for average. May not be a prototypical power hitter...though I think he'll add some. Very suddenly 1B/3B seem to be deep in this system. Josh Knoth I'm still high on Knoth. Most pitchers will have TJ at some point. Knoth can touch 98 as a LHP with a developing repertoire. He might be the #1 pitcher on this list if he hadn't lost the season due to TJ, but I think he'll come back stronger as he fills out. Brady Ebel I'm kinda shocked we're at 14 and this is where I'm putting Ebel... I do value upside over proximity, but 6'3 left handed bat who looks like he's got the ability to stick at 3B and again, one of the youngest players in the draft. Oddly reminds me a bit of Tyler Black with the potential for more power and a more clear defensive home. Josh Adamczewski All he's done is hit. He's kept pace and then some with some of the top prospects in baseball in Made, Pena...lacks the positional versatility, but another player who can do it all. Bishop Letson Part of that incredible '23 class, Letson could be even higher if not for a shoulder issue that's kept him out since June. He's dominated HiA, also touching 98 this year. ANOTHER big cold weather guy the Brewers stole in the late rounds. Eric Bitonti Bitonti is a hit or miss guy and I could both put him 10 spots lower this year or 10 spots higher in years past. He's got such a smooth swing, if he can improve the hit tool just a bit, he's going to be an very valuable prospects.Bryce Meccage There just aren't enough spots. I liked Flores, the LHP who was committed to Kentucky in this range, but Meccage is again, a 6'4 RHP who has room to fill out, add velocity and refine his slider...which is his 4th best pitch at the moment. Tyson Hardin A plus FB and elite command give him a high floor. Brett Wichrowski With a FB that can hit the upper 90s, an advanced slider, my only concern is the relatively low K and BB rate in AA. Fallback is another flamethrower in the Brewers BP, upside is he a solid rotation arm if he can develop the cutter or change. Not having Lara on here feels a little silly. Boeve, Thompson, Flores... this is a deep system with ELITE talent at the top and so many top 20 worth guys being left off. Ethan Murray were he a bit younger would be around 15, but he looks like he's going to be a contributor nonetheless. This farm system reminds me of the Brewers with Prince, Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Braun... but we didn't create it with top 5-10 picks, we've done it will building a competitive team. But where that farm system was top heavy and you have to kinda search for guys who might, maybe could contribute a bit, this one has...so many who are going to be ready each year. We have the 55-60 FV prospects, we've got 50-55 FV, we seem to be loaded(IMO) in the 45-50 FV range. Misiorowski is gone, that may stop us from having the top ranked farm system, but what this front office is doing is amazing...and only watch these guys play a few times a game. What just affirms all of this is watching these scouts on Twitter raving about Dinges and having him as a top 5 catcher or people with no affiliation to the Brewers arguing why Pena should be the a top 3 SS prospect ahead of Made and Pratt. And we just keep adding guys with another deep draft where...hopefully, we can get 18-20 of these guys signed.

I don't think he's a better 1B much less far better. He's also hurt and they can play together. Second, while Woodruff, Quintana and Cortes will be gone in 2026...I wouldn't expect Peralta to be...there's just not a good reason to any longer. We've got a top...2-3 Farm system. We can afford to take the QO and add the draft pick rather than trading the ace of the staff in what should be a year wee compete. But you've STILL got Misi, Gasser, Myers, Patrick, Henderson, Priester, Ashby, Crow...perhaps Hall IF you did trade Peralta. I'm forgetting someone because that's how deep we are and then you have guys who are coming up in AA and throwing really well AND...it's not like Quintana was on the team. You added him. You'll also offer Woodruff the QO, he'll decline, but a post-season run would give us the ability to spend money(as well as having a little coming off). Not on a star, but the Brewers know where to pick their spots. So they can deal a pitcher or two if it makes their chances to win a WS significantly stronger. Those deals...would do that. I want another power reliever to move Mears down a spot. And while Ashby can be used in that role...he's also pretty valuable coming in for the tough lefties in the middle of the game with the game hanging in the balance. I did not like how he was used yesterday, yesterday I thought they should have brought Anderson in to begin with, but settting that aside, there's no a good reason to not go and add to your pen. In the post-season, say Misi doesn't have great command but he can get you through 4 innings. You can bring in Ashby for 2, Soto, Mears, Uribe, MeGill. That's a tough group of arms to get through. This is the type of move the Dodgers make year after year. We're not giving up guys like Letson and we're turning guys like Wichrowski and Hardin into real legit prospects who have big fastballs and are certainly good enough to be a 9th or 10th starter in an organization.