BrewerFan

I probably overshot it as I was trying to come up with a team friendly deal that...would also be acceptable to Peralta, not a fair market deal. So make it 4 and 60. If Flaherty is getting 17.5 as a FA, Peralta shouldn't be getting more with 1.5 years of team control. I don't like the Severino comp(I don't love either but I get they're just from BRef). The next deal I'd give a pitcher would be a guy like Gasser. Give him what Ashby got adjusted for inflation. Misiorowski, Henderson, I'd try extending most of them...and maybe we do. Signing them early is rare but can be a huge advantage for the team as we're currently seeing.

Perhaps if they were about 10 games better and a threat this year...it'd be a discussion. Burnes goes down... which hadn't happened when you posted this... and they want to make a run this year. Realistically, the Padres are the team that seems to just constantly trade away future studs to make a run at it. Imagine that team if they don't trade Soto or...I don't know, make most of the trades they made(and still spent the money they did). I'd love someone to make me an all Padres team. Speaking of which...there's another arm who'll be back. Probably not this year in a impactful way, possibly out of the pen, but he should be good to go for next year.

Sure... I would still keep doing it the way the Brewers have. Just hypothetically, if we'd signed Peralta to the same deal and he lost 12-14 months with TJ, it's still a good deal. Ashby...hasn't been a good deal, but there's still time for it to be and it's hardly crippling if it doesn't work out. The next level would be signing a guy like Peralta now or Burnes/Woodruff when they had 3 years to go. Buy out the first FA year and then you get a couple of Team Options. I think that's usually worth it IF the pitcher will agree, but that deal will cost a lot more. What would you give Peralta right now(I'm not advocating extending him, just hypothetically). A 4 year 80M dollar extension? 5 years 88M left? Probably favors the Brewers but...I'd pass I think. Free Agency? The Brewers aren't even in the discussion for a pitcher of that caliber, so it's kinda moot.

I like him...he's a good defender at 1B, he can play in the OF and it's always nice to have LHed bat off the bench. I'd have guessed a higher wRC+....maybe 110 but then he was pretty bad the early half of last year...I think.

Bauers

This isn't that big of a deal unless it comes with "forearm tightness," or something like that in the following days. He'd been dominating. He's taking the mound and pitching regularly. He's maintaining his velo late into games. I'm thrilled with how he's been throwing this year. Coming into this start, he was down to 3.3 BB per 9IP, he had a 7 start stretch in which he gave up just 2 single HRs. I was all on board with keeping him in AAA for the full year, but he was so dominant, I thought he may force his way into the rotation. But I think it's better if he spends the full year in AAA...or at least until Sept, if he's throwing well again, has his 120 innings in and we can use him in a multi inning role. Things could have gone a little better, but...it's been a REALLY good season thus far.

Really? You had "no idea" why I'd talked about Middleton and that statement sounded...."drunk?" And I was "going on" about Middleton's past injuries? This is it. The extent of what I said about his injuries. They were +16 with Giannis+Dame+Middleton+Lopez on the floor.

Oh, and I just found this amusing, but does anyone listen to "Steve the Homer True" anymore? He wants to trade Jackson Chourio because...he doesnt' walk enough and doesn't justify his salary as it could be better used on going out and adding a piece that can help right now. He even added...we'd have to kick in some salary(as if...quite literally EVERY team in MLB would not gladly take on that contract to take him). Now, the later part, fair critique...of a 21 year old budding super, he has not walked enough, he's chased a LOT. Pitchers have the book on him and it's up to him to adjust...as he did last year. Just an aside, off-topic but amusing. Also curious when he became a Milwaukee version of Skip Bayless, but, that's for another thread.

Yes, I agree. I think for the Brewers to get back into it, you'll need to lean on your pitching AND the 3 hitters who've been struggling getting hot and being ~900 OPS guys the rest of the way(Yelly, Chourio, Contreras). Maybe it's .865 or whatever, but the're all too good to struggle too much. Ortiz is as well. He's clearly better than the type of player he's been thus far. But you get Woody back, even throwing ~95(and I suspect he'll get back to 96-97 as the year goes on and it heats up, but he's a bulldog. Civale helps, Carlos Rodriguez, Henderson and then Misiorowski late in the year will help. But I don't want to trade Mears and I don't want to trade Megill. A good rotation and an overwhelming bullpen, defense and just enough offense... And if I'm wrong and those pieces aren't coming together by the ASB...well, then sure. We have Uribe, we have guys like Hardin, we have other pitchers who can step up and step in down the road for, but make them overpay for it if we reach that point. Just the idea of a healthy Hall coming in and taking over for Myers or Priester, whoever...if they're just not on, going 2-3 innings. You have Mears, Koenig, Uribe, Ashby to mix and match until Megill. That's the formula..and we're not on course right now, but I still like this team and I'd viewed this year as when our "window" with this next group kinda starts to open and I even think you could get contributions from guys like Tyler Black.

Seriously? This is now the argument? You were talking about how it made PRE-arbitration players more expensive. Now it's about how the best players in pre-arbitration will make more money when they get to arbitration(as if that...hasn't ALWAYS been the case). But no, that money does NOT impact their contracts or their arbitration timelines. It's just a bonus pool handed out to players who win awards or perform the best from that year. It doesn't change anything once you get to arbitration... If a player wins an MVP in the first three years, he's going to start arbitration higher. Now under the current system, he's going to get money from the bonus pool. That's not costing the Brewers more money than it would have otherwise(beyond the 1.67M they pay into the pool). Ok...so then it DOES have something to do with the inflation of the top players salaries? Odd that you argued that point initially, but...there we go. We agree now. Yup. I'm...apparently missing that because I'm not upset about the variety? That makes absolutely no sense, but sure. And if they DIDN'T offer that variety, you'd bemoan the lack of effort to generate revenue. I don't even know what point you're attempting to make here. People go to the games, they sell things every game. What's the problem? What on Earth are you ACTUALLY complaining about? Then prey-tell, why don't you share your revenue generating ideas? I can see why this would be upsetting to you😉 And by that do you mean NOT spend time making contradicting arguments while bemoaning the market size that will invariably limit the Brewers revenue compared to the top teams? Yeah...I....I guess I will keep doing that.

Lets stop even bringing up Ty Cobb's name when it come to racism in general. It seems like outside of a drunk writing a fictional book, his family and he were both...the antithesis of racists. He defended a young black mascot for the Tigers on the road, met with Jackie when he was allowed to play(he advocated for integration)...his family had a history of fighting for black men's rights. His Grandparents were abolitionists(though mine were...pretty racist, so that's not the most compelling I suppose). There's a lot of other anecdotal evidence that suggests Al Stump just made up most of the stories. The beating of a black bellhop. I also realize the point was simply made that during the ERA in which he(and Reggie) played there was a great deal of racism... which is clearly true, but it doesn't feel accidental that Ty Cobb is mistakenly used as the poster boy for it when you could more easily argue he was well ahead of his time.

He did a really bad job of throwing those games.

Oh...I'm sorry. See, now I thought there WAS room for an opinion in discussing a hypothetical. My mistake. Yeah, they were losing by 3 points in the 1st quarter and had the ball in the game he went down. Not exactly "Losing badly," they were down by 2 points with 2:30 to go in the first game of the series he played....not exactly "getting clobbered." But hey, if it's your OPINION that being Down by 2 with 2:30 in Game 2(the 1st game of the series Dame played) and down by 3 when Dame got hurt is "losing badly," who am I to deprive you of your opinions. He was injured to START the series, so I kinda thought the whole "if healthy" thing was...obviously based on opinions(which there are no room for here I guess)... They also lost another game with him when they were up 7 with ~40 seconds left. So if I'm counting right, that's 3 games that were close, two with a STILL injured but playing Dame. So that's 3 games. Yes, I'm aware. But I did. See... was my opinion....which I couched by also agreeing with you that when you build an older roster, that's an inherent risk. But being as Lillard didn't play the first game and they were decidedly NOT "getting clobbered" when he went down and then given what happened to the Celtics, it seems like a moot point, but...kinda my apologies on thinking there...was "room for opinion."

I'm not sure about that. If they'd have just kept Middleton and then stayed healthy, the way things have worked out, I think it's entirely possible they could have won the East. The Pacers are no juggernauts and the Knicks are good, but...again... But Middleton was consistently hurt and we weren't healthy(part of roster construction as you pointed out). Look at Boston though. They looked like they had a 3-4 year run on their hands and now they lose in 6 and next year is a lost year as well. They may win 50 games, but...Jrue is old, Horford older, Porzingas injury prone. White and Brown. Two good players and closing in on 500M in roster costs.

Likely? I don't think they're as good as Houston...despite their awful OL and the Colts are talented. I hated that trade for the Jags. If they win the division it's because it's just a weak division, but they're not a good team. Hunter is really good, but I don't like trading up unless you're close to being a contender or it's for a REALLY good QB. The Browns are probably as likely to be picking atop the draft next year, so...fine, DT, OL, +1st and they got other picks as well. The only WR I'd consider moving up for like that would be Smith from OSU and he's not coming out until '27. But with 2 1sts, they can keep adding picks for future years and assuming they're picking 1st next year....which I would not count out, they could have enough to actually make a move when Arch and Smith come out in '27(assuming Manning is A-Good enough and B-Actually stays at UT for 2 more years). It at least appears as though they have a plan to build something.

Oh my! WHAAAT! We're in a small market! No!!!!! Has this EVER been disputed on this board by anyone? Everyone on this board has already acknowledged this and was having a bit more of a nuanced discussion about the spending in Baseball and how it's grown from the Yount, Molitor days when you claimed the Brewers also couldn't spend on more than 1 or 2 players(but they could) and the inflation in salaries that you said...didn't exist. I'm not even sure what you're saying right now other than the sky appears to be blue. Of course it's a small market. Green Bay is also a small market. Right...or I fundamentally disagree with you. Yeah...no. Starting backwards, the 50M dollar pool that each team pays 1.67M dollars into is what you're claiming raises the "salaries" of young players and funnels talent from the have nots to the haves? THEY'RE GETTING PAID OUT OF THE POOl. It's not doing ANY of that. Expanded playoffs are BAD...because depth is more important and as such...teams with money benefit? You're clearly arriving at a conclusion and working backwards. Here is the FULL extent of the argument that can be made that the 2022 CBA "Hurt" small market teams(if you're paying attention). The large market teams who pay into revenue sharing... each team contributes 48% of its local revenues—such as income from regional television contracts, ticket sales, and local sponsorships and they pool that money and distribute it. Those teams were complaining that there were other teams who were not spending that money and the luxury tax jumped up from 210 to 230 and then small increments. 233, 236...etc... They ALSO added two more thresholds to penaltize the top spending teams including the "Cohen" Tax, but that's the full extent of it. Trying to add on "higher salaries for pre-arbitration players," is...either you don't know where the money was coming from or you were being intellectually dishonest. The MOST it can cost a team is...again, 1.67M and it's not "funneling" young talent from the "haves to the have nots." Softening rebuilds with a lottery has nothing to do with large or small markets. It's a draft lottery. It's trying to get rid of tanking. Yeah, I don't need to ask myself why the Brewers and literally every other team in pro sports are trying to generate revenue via jersey sales. It's self explanatory and in absolutely no way addresses how the Brewers are "horrible" at marketing and have no heritage. As I said, that's such a silly thing to zero in on that it's not even worth debating, but NOW you're asking me why the Brewers try and sell different Jersey's? So is that them being horrible at their job or not? So...I guess they shouldn't be trying to sell jersey's because... I don't know, I've lost your point in here. It's a bad thing to try and sell 12 different uniforms, something you apparently believe is unique to the Brewers but also, they've exhausted all avenues to make money(which would infer they're doing a good job, but again, I'm just trying to follow this argument here). I'm honestly not sure what point you're making at the end of this.

Yeah...I don't know about that. Maybe because he was SOO much tied to Milwaukee. But to go to the Cubs? The...Cubs? C'mon...really?

1-Adames had ONE window to make his money. Counsell has a 20-30 year window(edit--a 20-30 year window on TOP of his MLB career). 2-The Brewers DID make a competitive offer to Counsell(5.5M) and he DID NOT LET THEM MATCH, instead claiming he "wanted a new professional challenge." He choose the Brewers most hated Rivals(well, not hated so much as pretentious). 3-Willy didn't grow up in Milwaukee, he wasn't raised in the Brewers clubhouse, he didn't present himself as the hometown boy who exceeded all expectations and came back to manage the team his dad worked for...only to leave to the highest bidder under the absurd premise of doing it...not for himself, but for every other one of those poor managers out there, managing Baseball games for less than 7 million a year! Righting such a grievous inequity that only our hero CC could do(though in fighting for managers, he was willing to screw a couple others over in the process...). Or...I could just as easily go with the fourth reasons; 4-Because I want to, I like Wily, but I don't like chicken little.

Well, that Suma%#$% definitely deserved it with that #$%$#$ move to those #$%$ Cubs. I'm not mad though...we got Murph! I'm...slightly less convinced about that than I was last year.

Sometimes it's so thick people don't put it in blue...but IS this sarcasm? Soto turned down a similar amount of money from the Yankees. Not the same, but similar. Adames said he'd take less, but it was never feasible. Why would I boo a guy who loved Milwaukee, Milwaukee loved him and we just didn't have the resources to sign? Nah, I'll be cheering him(I won't literally be as I'm probably not going, but...I would be...though obviously not rooting for him).

How is the last CBA relevant to that??? Or that Pete Crow Armstrong will hit ~45 HRs or that Carson Kelly will have an OPS over 1.000 I agreed with the rest but...I'm trying to be succinct(it's not a strong suit🤷‍♂️).

Yeah, you may be right. There is a lot of talk about MLB trying to impose a cap this year. At the rate things are going, I think you could set an inflated cap of...say 270M. I don't know if you make it a hard cap or not. But you're talking about a LONG lock out most likely. We've kicked this can down the road so far, I don't know if it's feasible to get it done, but you have even some of the wealthy owners who want it now. If there was a sport to have no cap, Baseball is the best option. And I am still optimistic the Brewers can win. It's going to take good luck, but I think 3-5 years down the road we could have a big window. I also think the best way to combat the salaries is sign guys early. You risk what with Chourio? You could be on the hook for ~80M over 8 years for a guy with poor plate discipline, power a good LFer who provides some value there, The upside...massive. Jesus Made...again, the floor is pretty high given he's a switch hitting MIF at this point. Pratt, Pena...pitchers are more unlikely, but we're coming out way ahead on Peralta+Ashby as of now. It's a very thin needle to thread, but I think given our resources, we're threading it as well as we can...

To point A-Who said that means the Brewers are generating double what it was 20 years ago? I'd guess we probably ARE generating close to double what we were 20 years ago, but...that's not the point. The difference is now the top teams are spending 4X at much as they were then. You have 4 teams over 270 in payroll and there was one team spending a ton in 2005(the Yankees) and then MAYBE you'd have Boston spending over 100M and everyone else was under 100M. The Dodgers are probably paying 5-6X more when you include the luxury tax. Hell, they paid more last year just in the luxury tax than everyone BUT the Yankees 20 years ago. So yeah...I think the inflation of the top players salaries and the inflation of TV deals have caused the gap. You made the claim the Brewers have NEVER been able to pay more than one player and then cited the Yount, Molitor days...and they were able to field a financially competitive team. They WERE able to pay 4-5 players among the top in the league at their position. Maybe not all at the VERY top, but it'd be like having 4-5 guys making 25-35M in this era. That's a pretty stark contrast. A top 5 payroll right now would mean we'd have ~150M more to spend. A stark contrast. 20 years ago we also weren't spending tens of millions of dollars in Latin America or in a new AZ facility that's helped us become one of the best teams at maximizing the pitching talent we have. I don't know how the last CBA "kills teams like the Brewers." If rewards them with draft picks if they have rookies who hit bench marks, it pools money to pre-arby players...it adds playoffs spots, it added the DH so Jimmy Nelson would have pitched at possibly an elite level for a period of time with Woody, Burnes and Peralta if we had that, but...that's not Brewers-centric. The ONE thing it did was take the teams like the Mets and the Dodgers and penalize them even MORE for their insane spending...which gets spread out. 9 teams last year were in the luxury tax. That benefits the Brewers. What part "kills" the Brewers? AS for the Brewers doing a terrible job, that's...I'm not even going to bother responding to that. I find it to be ridiculous and...I'm not sure what you're looking for, but no fan base in Baseball supports it's team at a PER CAPITA level like the Brewers. So...yeah, I don't care about Jersey's or anything else. I like going and watching the Brewers play. I like the things they're doing at the park. I'm not sure where you're getting that they're terrible at branding and have no heritage and I can't debate such a...subjective opinion, so I won't. I will say it seems like some people are so incessantly negative...it feels like you could look 90 minutes South and find a team that...they've got a whole Wrigleyville, they have "Heritage," I guess. And that's not me saying, 'why don't you go be a fan of the Cubs,' it's just me just not understanding how people can be so relentlessly negative about seemingly EVERY aspect of the Brewers organization. Kinda feels like they've been doing something right.

The guy who owns roughly 1/3rd of the team in the smallest market in baseball and who's net worth is less than at least two MLB players now? Why not blame Giannis? He's pulling in ~100M a year. The Uihlein Family or the Hawks owner Tony Ressler who are each worth ~11B dollars. Or the uncertainty of the Brewers baseball situation or revenue sharing or a million other things beyond the face of the owner not spending money for...what player? Who was the player that we should have signed? I'll assume it wasn't the SS who is currently putting up 0.0 WAR and signed a 7/182M deal(though I think we could have overpaid by less and gotten him for 7/170) for a guy who'll turn 30 later this season. They didn't have Braun, Cain and Yelich? It's got a little to do with inflation. The Brewers gave Yount the largest contract in MLB History at 3/9.3M, they had Stubbs as the largest FA signing for what seemed like a paltry 2/6M IIRC, Bill Wegmen was getting 2.4M, Teddy Higura had a deal in the 4/14M range, just shy of 5M a year, Molitor was being paid ~3.5M. This was the period where the salaries really started to explode and eventually led to the lockout in 1994. The Brewers in 1990 had the 5th largest payroll at ~20M and by 1992 despite continuing to spend, they were at about 31M, about average(Toronto was the leader at ~45M). And if you're just going back to higher end deals... they have outpaced ANY other manner of inflation, CPI or the Average Salary, the Minimum salary. You went from ~1M to start the 80s(Nolan Ryan 4/4.5M) to Young ~3/9.3M to 2000 Albert Bele 12M to 15M for Kevin Brown by 2010 Johan Santana was making 20M a year, Arod 33M, 2020-both leagues are about the same at ~37M, 2025 now we're got Soto making up to 805B over 15 years and Ohtani earning 70M a year and you can calculate that however you'd like as he's not going to have to pay Social Security, medicare, disability or the 13.3% state income tax as those are only collectible at the time paid. So he'll save 100M or more by deferring the money...obviously less than one could expect to earn on it, but as pretty significant jump. So yeah, a lot of it, especially for the top tier players is related to inflation in their salaries. To deny that is...to deny the sun is hot or water is wet.

No, they absolutely do not. They both had something wrong with their lower back. Bryant has a degenerative disc issue in his lower back. That's NOT what Yelich had. Yelich had a microdiscectomy. There isn't a procedure to fix Bryant's. The outlook for Yelich is a full recovery and regaining full mobility and strength. Bryant's is Ongoing chronic pain, mobility issues that continue to worsen.