BrewerFan

I'm with you on almost all of this, BUT...not the bolded section. That was a HUGE reason why we were so optimistic even after losing to the Dodgers. We had a pair of top 100 prospects who were coming in, throwing upper 90s and going 2-4 innings and just overpowering. Even that season when Burnes was all off, I've never seen a fanbase stick with a guy and still remain as confident in him. BUT, we saw him and saw what he could do. We didn't see Hall last year throwing out of the Pen, so I get why people wouldn't be quite as high. I'd imagine if we saw Hall throwing at his best, we'd have more people willing to go through these injuries and give him more turns in the rotation.

Just an...extra little bit about the recievers, Musgrave and Kraft playing together for another year is going to be huge as well. Obviously...Jacobs can catch the ball, Dillon(if he makes the team) is pretty good, hope Lloyd is, but I could see a pretty easy path for Love to throw for 5000 yards and only have 1 WR with 1000 yards, if that. I could see the top 4 and the TEs all in the 600-1000 range and Melton is such a wildcard. It was a small sample size, but it feels like he could get 600 this year. He was with the 1s quite a bit it sounds like for the OTAs and made some big plays. If things fall like they could, it's going to be so hard to game plan against this team on either side of the ball. 2 WR, 2 TE sets and you could easily run the ball, take deep shots. Defense, you've got guys who should be able to win one-on-ones all over the place. Very exciting season that can't come soon enough!

That's mostly fair. I think we really have to be cognizant of how young these guys are(not saying you weren't). 1-Obviously you're right Watson is the guy who has the most potential to be that #1. I think his impact was bigger in '22 because you had so few other weapons. Doubs was one, but Rodgers didn't trust young guys. He was a perfectionist and I think that's actually normal as you get older, but when he's healthy, he makes big plays. **The important thing here is Watson is SO explosive, he's got incredible suddenness from a 6'4 210-220 WR. He could be dynamic if they use him as the 2nd KR with Nixon(probably will be a guy like Lloyd, but still). So much hinges on he and Stokes getting the Hamstring issues worked out. I think it was a great first step. Finding out one was 20% stronger than the other leg. I've never heard of that, but I do remember Strength coaches talking about how you had to work on your non-dominant leg to prevent injury. But the detail has improved so much. Can he run that crisp 20-yard out or a seem to move where he sets his gup up and gets a clean release inside? That'll be the difference between a top 5-10 WR and just out #1. But he can make BIG time plays. #2-Wicks- Reminds me of Adams so much. But again, he's just in Yr2. I think he's going to just keep getting better and he may end up the #1 in terms of targets. #3-I like Doubs here. I don't think he plateaued, I think he got better, he just had so much more competition. Good speed, size, , though nothing extraordinary, but he's a smooth route runner like Jennings and he may have the best chance to come down with the ball out of any of them in a 50/50 situation. #4-Reed You could flip the last two, but we all saw what a thread this dude is. I think we all see it. #5-Melton Reminded me of Driver...and not like Wicks has some similarities to Adams or Doubs to Jennings, those are certain aspects of their games that are similar, but Melton looked like a Driver clone. Tough over the middle, hanging onto the ball after the hit, battling and slipping off for more yards, he ran great routes...just looked awesome. Toure-Time's up. He's been given a shot, we talk about him every pre-season(actually, the Packers do) and...he hasn't done much. Maybe another team. Heath-I think you're a little low on what he did. He was playing 30-50% of the snaps the last 5-6 weeks of the season and he made an impact. This is a position I think you go with 5 rather than 7 because I think you can get two or three guys on the PS. Dubose-He may be a real wild card. A lot of people were high on him last year going into the draft, a lot of people thought he may be a guy we'd draft. Good size, speed, hands...but we never got to see it. Yet despite being a 7th-round pick who got no run all year, he was there at the end of the year on the 53. Not great top end speed, but great quickness, explosive, physical... I think we either go with 5...if all of them are healthy. If not, I think Dubose could make up the ground. Still think they really like Heath and he's a really good, physical WRr, but the top 5 are just clearly better(I'm choosing to believe Melton's late last year is who we'll see). Also, none of the top 5 WRs really play STs save for maybe returning the ball. So Dubose and/or Heath could contribute in that manner. Probably like a lot of other fringe players. They make the PS unless they stand out and they get called up. But with the TEs and the WRs, this group could be a 2011 type offense. Especially if they can jut shore up that OL. If Morgan can come in and be at least an average starter(LT, LG, RG, anywhere) or if Walker takes a step and improves and earns the spot, if Dilard, who MLF spoke glowingly of if he can be a good swing tackle and almost as importantly as anyone, Myers needs to cut down on the mistakes. Also very interested to see how Jacobs plays. The one move I didn't like, getting rid of Jones. But if you have Jacobs, Lloyd and Wilson while Dillon squeezes his way in there, this offense is loaded. And the defense is built for a 4-3, I think they have been. Wyatt may be the most improved player on this team. The penetrating one gap vs a read and react two gap? It fits him like a glove. 8+ sacks for Wyatt this year, All the talent is there and this team seems to be focussed with leaders like Love and Jaire keeping the young guys on track(also, tip of the cap for Jaire coming in and stepping up the professionalism!

I would expect it to run up a bit more in the short term...or at least historically, that's what happens AFTER the stock splits...but it's run up so much as it is, I don't know. It is still "cheap" relatively speaking. A ~45 Forward PE is much lower than it's been in the past...but I could also see a pretty solid pullback. Maybe some out-of-the-money long spreads and if you get an interest cut or just the next earnings...which Hensen seems pretty confident about. It seems like many of the "cyclical concerns," have been eased...at least in near term and with Blackwell coming out(and now another Chip on schedule for next year as they enter a new era with a new Chip each year)...it seems as though people are really confident they can maintain their edge for the next ~3-5 years. If they can keep their margins in the high 70s and keep just...crushing their earnings(and more importantly, expectations) it's going to really do well, but the first time they've got a Quarter where they just hit earnings, that's effectively missing for NVDA. BUT...again, as of now, Huang said that the demand for Hopper GREW more than they anticipated after they announced Blackwell. The end of August is going to be a very interesting time for NVDA.

The fatalistic posts on here are...just kinda insane. You have more analysts and experts who believe we're just at the start of a bull market, that we're in a 21st century version of the "roaring 20s," and anyone who understands the Great Depression knows that Black Friday wasn't the cause of the great depression it was one of the worst ideas in the History of US Policey(Smoot-Hawley obviously) as the market was well on it's way to recovering(I only say that as the first response to the idea of a new 'roaring 20s is a comment about the ensuing great depression). https://www.businessinsider.com/economy-roaring-20s-rapid-growth-sthttps://fortune.com/2024/04/16/headlines-are-scary-right-now-but-ai-driven-bull-market-can-last/ock-market-analysis-ed-yardeni-2024-1 https://www.carsongroup.com/insights/blog/six-reasons-this-bull-market-is-alive-and-well/ https://www.fisherinvestments.com/en-us/insights/market-commentary/more-bull-market-in-store-for-2024 You have Amazon, Walmart, Aldi's, Target among others talking about the mistake they made in raising prices too much. https://qz.com/target-walmart-amazon-walgreens-price-cuts-consumers-1851507920 Go into a Walmart and you see EVERYTHING is cheaper in the...10 days or so since they announced this. And you have some of the most brilliant minds talking about how strong this economy is... And I don't know if there's been ANYONE more accurate than Bill Lee in the past few years. They're ALL seeing incredible growth and just the start of a bull, but you're talking about 2008 when we were on the verge of again, the great depression? C'mon...LOL...

Yeah...I don't play with that nonsense. That's a good way to take what you've earned or made and you're really just gambling then. I guess all stocks are a gamble, but at least an informed gamble. Trying to figure out what the hell Roaring Kitty will make a stock do...that terrifies me. But I get the allure. It runs up 20-30% and...that's fun. I'd just never be the guy who holds it and I never see when he starts it.

I think you're right to a degree. As I understood your point, it was that the BUCKS just have to get in and get in healthy and they have a chance in the future. Even Boston without KP...the Bucks would have been a problem for them if they were healthy. I agree with your point(assuming this is your point) that the focus needs to be more on lightening the workload, getting the young guys more minutes. Hopefully, there will be two more contributors. Once Tatum and Brown get a chip(if they get a chip) I think they're going to be even more dangerous and tough to beat. This could be the stat of a Celtic run where they get 2-3 chips in the next 4-5 years. I just want to see the Bucks squeeze in there and get one more.

The defense also. If they got those two cleaned up, each are healthy and they can get back to playing regularly, it's bigger for the offense, but another long, fast corner who excels in exactly what they WANT to do more of, that's going to be big also. The offense was really good without Watson. With Watson they were good. Wicks, Reed, Doubs, the LBers, I think Melton is really good. But Watson is just clearing out the field. I love the role Love has taken as well. It's going to be a fun team. OL is the biggest question mark and that's down to Walker and if he can hold off Morgan and if not, can Morgan play as well or be an upgrade over JRJ. The new Era of Packers FB looks like it'll be a fun one...and how fitting would it be to pick 32nd at the draft next year IN GB?

Eh, you said I cherry-picked examples...so I picked the whole bushel...not just guys like Hassan Reddick. And the "difference" is you believe they play with bigger DEs though their DEs will be the same as their OLB, so not really a change(not sure the difference of opinion at DT other than you think Slaton might be gone due to his size) and at LBer...IDK, I guess size again. We'll see I guess.

It's really not. Who is asking questions about Reddick playing DE? He's been playing DE the last several years. 73% of his snaps last year came at DE with the Eagles. Nolan Smith, played exclusively as a DE with the Eagles. They're both . His best careers have come as a DE. Philly runs a 4-3. He played 73% of his snaps at DE. Nolan Smith, again, he played DE. Neither played in a 3-4. Likewise with Leonard Floyd. He's coming off a 10.5 sack season as a 4-3 DE. You're using examples of guys who've not just played some DE, their best seasons have come as DEs. Hell, Reddick was nearly out of the league until he asked to kick outside. I think you have this outdated notion of 4-3 DEs being like Reggie, Bruce Smith, Richard Dent. Even though they were the outliers then, they were bigger. That was a totally different game. Guys who currently play or recently played at a high level in 4-3 schemes as a DE; Bryce Huff-250 The guy who's flipping places with Reddick, he's played DE his whole career. Von Miller-245 one of the all-time greats and one of the all-time great duos when he played with DeMarcus Ware(255) Brian Burns-250 DeMarcus Ware was a 255 DE Will Anderson just was DROY and an AP as a DE who was 240 on a good day Maxx Crosby- 255LB DE Micah Parsons, maybe the best DE in the NFL right now, he's ~245(and he's closer to 235 in season as he's talked about keeping weight on). He played 87% of his snaps at DE. You could do this all day and this is just with the elite DEs. Robert Quinn-100+ snaps in his career, 245 Khalil Mack- 251 LBs coming into the league, AP and DPOY as a 4-3 DE his first couple years. Ebukam-245 9.5 sacks last year in a 4-3 Jadaveon Clowney-255 LBs, been one of the best run-defending DEs during his career. The top Edge in this draft, Dallas Turner. 6'3 240. Drafted by a 4-3 team a year after Will Anderson(who was a little smaller was also drafted to a 4-3 team and excelled both vs the run and the pass). -Let's go back to what may have been the most DOMINANT DL in recent NFL history. The one that won not ONE, but TWO Super Bowls due to it's front 4. You had Michael Strahan, 255 and Osi Umenyiora, 255 pounds. Each were APs, Strahan won a DOPY, Osi led the Giants in sacks both seasons. That was, again, a 4-3. I feel like I could keep going. There's a reason these players are referred to as EDGES coming out. It's because there's not really a prototype for a 4-3 vs a 3-4....mostly owed to the fact that they're interchangeable. How many players have gone from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and made the move seamlessly? Khalil Mack, Joey Bosa(280 Joey Bosa), Von Miller, DeMarcus Wear, Clowney, JPP, Osi...teams don't care. It should be telling that the Packers ALREADY have in place probably the largest DE's...and they were all drafted to play a 3-4. So the idea that you can get by with smaller OLBer, but you need bigger DE's, it's an antiquated notion. For what it's worth, Cox weighed 259 at his Florida Pro-Day, and Enagbare is listed at 258, but let's go by Cox's listed weight. That's a 7LB difference. Again, we ALL want bigger, faster, stronger players. But when it comes to edge, MUCH more important than weight is bend, arm length, their first step, their hand fighting, how they can get inside and extend and then in the run game, it's anchor and disengage. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter if you're 240 or 260, you won't be playing. No. If anything, 4-3 DEs are going to see FEWER reps vs the Guards. Most of them will come either when they stunt or if the Guard doesn't have anyone and he slides out and that's exceptionally rare. Let me try and show you cap responsibilities for a 4-3. Left DE is playing a Wide9. If that's the 3-4, he's going to be lined up over the TE, not outside shoulder in running situations. But he's not dealing with the guard and he's specifically dealing with the TE. That OLB, he's going to be head up on the TE and anticipating the Tackle to come out and he's not going to get upfield as a FIRST priority, he's going to try and set the Edge. That means engaging with the TE and if he releases the OT. The 4-3 Wide 9 is just rushing up field. The 7 tech. Again, now dealing with the Guard. This is why I was trying to explain why Slaton was still an integral player in this 4-3. He's the 1 tech. Not the 0, not straight over the C, but on that A(or 1) gap. They're not dealing with Guards(and especially not in Hafley's scheme which has so many simulated pressures, but even aside from that). Now if this was a 3-4, you'd have the NT over the C, the 3 tech(Clark from last year) he'd slide out another cap and he'd be on the inside shoulder of the OT and the 3 tech would be lined up over the guard on the left as we're looking at it. But again, the key is what is their responsibility? To hold the point, occupy the OL and let the LBers fire if it's a run or then disengage and get up field if it's a pass. I tend to pick 15-20 examples of starters as I don't have every 2nd, 3rd, much less the 5th guy on a depth chart off memory. You tend to use this 1990s ideology because you compare the "average sizes" of the Packers fronts from the 90s Super Bowl teams to those from now. I'll ignore that Cox was NOT a UDFA because of his talent, he was an UDFA because he was kicked out of both UF and UT in College. He was a 5 star recruit who dominated, or that he weighed 259 at his pro-day, and that Enagbare is listed at 258 and I'll just go with the idea that Enagbare is big enough at 7 pounds heavier than Cox and that 250 pounds is not big enough(you also made the claim that there were questions about Hassan Reddick playing DE in the 4-3 when that's what he's played for 3 years and that's where he excelled). And I admittedly have gotten a bit frustrated because no matter how much evidence, you keep going back to this idea that 4-3 DEs are bigger like it's back in the day when you used to have an anchor and a speed end...and you ran the ball 55+% of the time. This kinda started with the idea that Slaton was "too big" for the 4-3....which was really confusing as you started this whole discussion comparing the Gilbert Brown Packers. Using George Koonce and Wayne Simmons as your reason for why hey 'like' small LBers now. This was in the Preson Smith discussion when you suggested he might play LBer... Either way, that's not the case anymore with shifting and not one single team with designed runs on more than 48% of the time and the majority at a 60/40 split, pass to run, you CANNOT have a designed Elephant end and a weak side end as they'll just move the TE over pre-snap. Willie McGinest was the last real "Elephant," end and that's back when the Pats won their 1st SB and then the Colts got the illegal contact rules changed and that was the final shot the passing game needed to become far more prevalent. But KC-Mike Danna 257-Starter AZ-BJ Ojulari 243 Dallas-Dorance Armstrong Jr.255(3nd most snaps at DE), DeMarcus Lawrence, a 251 LB at the combine and 2nd rd pick as well. Top3 DEs on Dallas. Sam Wiliams was their largest DE coming out at 261. Wash-Toohill became their #1 DE with KJ Hill the #4(#2 after the trades). 253 and 255. Armstrong Jr now their starter on one side. Philly-Covered the Eales Reddick led the team in snaps at DE. Drafted Nolan Smith to get snaps there. Cleveland-Ogbonnia Okoronkwo as their #3 at 250 Texans-Covered them. Jerry Hughes(254), Will Anderson(243), Sanders 248 Det-Charles Harris(250), James Houston-245 I could also go and start listing out 3-4 LBs(I'd start with ours from last year, go with Judon, Autry, Hoecht, Bosa(I know you don't like outliers). Sure...I won't be shocked to see him back on the PS this year until he's activated. I would guess that the Packers had some degree of confidence in him as they weren't certain they'd avoided major injury until recently(they hoped and he was rehabbing) and Edge is just a position they prioritize. My larger point was an edge is an edge. We'll be returning the same top 5 guys this year and we're going from a 3-4 to a 4-3. We had bigger OLBers than the Cowboys, Browns, and Eagles had DEs(by quite a bit). The size range for edges of ANY type of generally 245(maybe a bit lower) to ~260...with some freak athlete outliers and most of them aren't much bigger. Bosa(Nick) is nearly 20 pounds lighter and plays in a 4-3 vs his 3-4 brother. Reddick, Huff, two players that switched teams would both be 'undersized,' When guys like Jared Verse, Will Anderson, Dallas Turner, Latu to Kneeland come out, teams aren't taking them off the board because they run a 4-3 vs a 3-4 or vice versa. I'd actually argued with the 4 man front being played 80+% of the time, a larger 3-4 OLB matters now more than it EVER has before.

Moss? I'm thinking you mean Cox? Assuming you do...and I didn't miss something, he's lighter, but 250 is still well within the range for an edge. And in this system where they have less responsibility on outside contain(the LB on that side or the Safety often will) and they can just get up field, I don't think it's a huge issue. Gotta see Cox show that explosiveness and functional strength. There are obviously plays he'll get beat being smaller, but that happened to Clay...who was a little smaller and played in the 3-4 where you have more gap responsibilities and you can't just get up-field in your gap. There are plenty of smaller edges out there. Nolan Smith wasn't bigger than Quay unless I'm mistaken. Guys like Reddick or...whoever. For the 5th guy in the rotation, I look at it like a 290LB DT. He's smaller, but he can still make up that difference. Of all the guys I'm excited for though...I think Wyatt may be #1. This just suits him SOOO much better! It's a night and day difference...

NVDA just keeps CRUSHING it! You keep thinking they're going to slow down...and they're not! 26B and 6.15 EPS and a 10-1 split.

Tom tore his pec also. Sure hope this isn't the new Hamstring for the Packers. Wonder if this has something to do with the new Strength and Conditioning Coach. Maybe they changed too much too fast? Maybe I'm wildly speculating and I probably shouldn't? Who's to say(it's the 2nd one probably). At least those two will be back. Tom in time for the start of Camp, Kraft "if not by camp, then early into camp." So by that, you know Tom will miss most of camp and Kraft will be back by week 3.

Bud...you need to slow down. BLUE=Sarcastic. Chourio was signed as a SS. So it was SARCASTIC to suggest we move him back to SS to maximize his power. 2-Read the rest of the forum. This HAS been discussed...recently for that matter. There are conflicting reports about how willing he is to sign a contract. A report from last year suggested he was open to it. One from this year suggested he was not. Either way, the game is more complicated than signing the guy who's hot right NOW(when their value has skyrocketed). I think you just need to relax, sit back, see how the forum operates a BIT. As for the blue, let me provide a good example of how it works. See where it says Sa next to the icon to underline it? I use that and then say something like,'you are right...you have a really laid back and measured view of the Brewers that nobody else on here has. You should definitely be running the team.'

None of this is remotely true. 1-He has not hit .350 consistently. He's done it over a small sample size this season. 2-He's an outstanding hitter. You DO remember Prince, Braun, the current guy who's on the team who was a late season injury away from B2B MVPs? 3-You really do sometimes have to trade away MVP hitters. The Nats did it with Soto and they're set up to be a REALLY good team in the near future due to that ONE trade. If the Brewers could get 75% of that package? THAT is how the Brewers win. Now I'd be for extending him...at the right price...that's usually not in the cards. So in the meantime, I'll be a fan of him and the Brewers...and bud, ease into this. You don't need to police who the "real" fans are or what teams they should root for. That's...weird and annoying. And the "how Baseball is played in 2024," I think @Brewcrew82 has a pretty good grasp of that. I'm guessing he'd LOVE an extension where the Brewers buy out Conretreas Arbitration years and then get a couple of team options. But it IS 2024 and the Brewers bring in quite literally hundreds of MILLIONS less than the larger market teams. So smaller market teams trading away elite players, ESPECIALLY when they have one of the top prospects in the game coming up right behind him, that is exactly how the game is played in 2024 for the likes of the Brewers. And they've managed to play that game pretty well.

I like Myers. I think he's going to be a good pitcher. Between he and Gasser, I think they'll level out and both will be adequate starters who can eat some innings. Neither will be aces or a #2(maybe Gasser becomes a good #3). I liked his stuff the first time. He's just gotta cut down on the long ball.

Rate Cut coming in Sept...most likely. Dow crosses 40,000 for the first time ever...and the last of Magnificent 7 due to report on Wed(or the Fab Four, whatever). Seems to have weathered the conflict in the ME and inflation pretty...pretty well considering(Channeling my inner Larry David).

Because I watched the games. I don't care about their regular season record before Christmas, without one of the top 2-3 players in the NBA, it took the Pacers 6 games, one an OT game with like 5 straight offensive boards to beat the Bucks. That's also with Lillard not playing at his best, but setting that aside...they're not beating the Bucks in the playoffs with Giannis. I don't think the Pacers are making it to a 6th game with Giannis. If you're just going by the regular season, that'd probably mean you think the Bucks would beat Boston? They were...IIRC, 2-2, but beat them badly while Boston won a couple one-possession games. The Playoffs is different and Giannis' impact would have been enormous.

They did with a healthy Giannis. That Pacer team is good and talented and not beating the Bucks in 7 games if healthy. But...as Forrest Gump said...it happens in sports. We may not win our Title if the Nets are healthy, we may have won a Title when Middleton was hurt vs Boston. In BOTH cases the truly frustrating thing wasn't the injuries or the losing...as bad as that was. It was the veteran coaches just refusing to play the young guys bringing energy and extra possessions(while playing great defense). Jevon Carter was playing so much better than George Hill, HE may have changed a series(probably not, but possibly). And AJJ was playing so well that...you could have just picked one of 4-5 players and he'd have made a huge difference. Crowder(who I think is actually very useful relative to his salary, but not as a guy getting heavy rotation minutes, it's matchup-dependent). But Connaughton, Beasley, even Portis at times. When Dame and Khris were on the floor, you should have had AJJ on the floor.

Yeah...I don't agree with the take that it's like MLB...just get in. I think the "better team," wins far more often in Basketball than in MLB. That said...I think it's more about the Bucks just getting in...with their core healthy. That's the key. They're healthy and they're blowing the doors off that Pacer team. They were a possession away from winning one game when the Pacers got 5,6 it may have been 7 shots with ~3 minutes left and the game tied. Put Giannis in and he'd have dominated Siakam. We missed the window to be a dominant team and win 3 or more titles. That would have required beating the Raptors, then the Covid year. But we're still more than capable of getting hot, healthy and going on another run to win one.

I don't really see how. There's a salary cap and the revenue sharing. The Packers are probably generating tens(hundreds) of millions less than teams like the Cowboys or LV. The Cap and the TV deal means the Packers are and will remain competitive. Also, investment funds are going to want a significant return on their investment. The Packers money can all go back into the team. And at this point, they're doing so well, they've got their rainy day fund, their investments, etc... I don't think there's any issue here.

I'd be with you if this was just about Wilson. I'm a big fan, thought he was a great nickel backer and physical enough at the point. But...how can anyone say a guy was drafted a round or two earlier than they were supposed to go...-especially when we know the team that took Wilson, wanted Hopper. Or at the very least, there are reports the Eagles and Steelers were going to take Hopper. But, irrespective of that, I seem to remember the same things being said about Love, Gary among others. Maybe not that they could have gotten them a full rd later, but that they could have gotten them later, could have traded back, didn't need to trade up. He's not who I'd have taken, but that's been the case plenty and the only thing I know is that Gute is hitting for a much higher BA than I or most fans

Wasn't really about making me "happy." But man, what a mistake the Brewers made if they gave 82M GTD to a guy who was projected to be a corner OFer with a 45 grade bat who wasn't a power hitter...

Well, likely because there hadn't been an offer made. He'd previously said Milwaukee felt like home, no talks had begun, etc...that was the end of last season. But, I'd guess we're at a point of diminishing returns...signing him now...there probably wouldn't be a whole lot of room for surplus value. Certainly allows Quero time to recover and get his footing in AAA next year. And then after that, maybe get a package similar to what the Fins got for Realmuto(though I'd hope we'd develop the top prospects much better).