PeaveyFury

The Brewers are not going to win the division with what they have for pitching. Adding a guy that's questionable with the bat to an already inconsistent lineup doesn't seem like a recipe for winning the division either. And trading Hardy now wouldn't make much sense, as his value is greatly reduced by his play so far this year.

It's not that I don't think Escobar is a good prospect since he is, it's just that I think mentioning him in the same breath as Braun and Fielder is practically criminal.

A few years ago, Escobar would have been like losing Prince, Braun, Weeks, and so on. Escobar hasn't had even a FRACTION of the success in the minors as Prince, Braun, or Weeks.

Lastings Milledge = Brewerfan.net's 2006-2007 Golden Boy I believe Milledge was BASEBALL'S 2006-2007 Golden Boy, actually. Not sure why this site is singled out.

Washburn isn't any better than a healthy Bush Well, Bush isn't healthy and a second Bush would still be better than our current options at 5th starter.

According to Gord (through Tom H), the Brewers had interest in DeRosa, but the Brewers didn't have what the Indians wanted in return: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/49386227.html Sure doesn't make Cliff Lee seem like a viable trade for the Brewers, then either.

Famous pitch-man Billy Mays was found dead this morning at age 50. Fairly surprising again, as he was just on the Tonight Show last week advertising his reality show on Discovery, though he was on a plane that had a minor accident while landing in Tampa yesterday. http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/1642998,w-billy-mays-dead-062809.article

I think the huge debate behind the scenes right now is going to be how long they're willing to wait to make a move. If they want to avoid a few more Burns/McClung/whomever starts, they'll make a move soon, and probably be forced to look at solid if unspectacular guys like Davis. If they're willing to wait a few weeks and see where we're at in the race nearing the deadline and hope that more teams go into sell mode as they fall from the race, and also hope that some of the higher-tier guys with injuries like Bedard return to action by then as well. Of course there's a huge risk to each move- you'd hate to trade for someone now and give up prospects only to fall out of the race in the next 4-6 weeks (though we could turn around and flip whoever we traded for if we're out before the deadline, I guess), but the longer you wait, the more likely it is that we WILL fall out of the race if the pitching doesn't hold up. Ideally for me, it's wait two or so weeks and hope that Seattle falls out of the race and Bedard comes off the DL healthy, then go from there.

Couldn't the delay be due to the "honeymoon" of having the great new facility needing to wear off a bit first? Like, you build a new house and you're ecstatic about it, but you soon realize you hate the carpeting and wish you'd done hardwood floors That would be more likely if the players that were having issues with it had been here that entire time, IMO. But Braun and Fielder have been here and had success for a few years now, and it's just become an issue. I can't imagine they would have had a problem saying something a year or two ago, 6-7 years into the stadium's life.

The stadium was opened in 2001. How come this is all of a sudden a problem in 2009? My feelings exactly. It's a story now because the current players have made a couple of comments about it. If they were actually winning their home games, it probably wouldn't be an issue.

My point is he likely never will. Josh Hamilton looked like even more of a lost cause, and Tampa is probably sick over not having him in their lineup right now. What kind of example does this set for the rest of our legitmate prospects? He's forced to sit out the rest of this season and part of 2010- I'd hope that sets enough of an example for his teammates.

And what's your point? He'd then be someone else's problem. His point is probably that if the suspension actually causes him to wake up and realize what he's doing to his career, he's throwing 100 mph with a nasty breaking ball in someone else's organization, while NOT being a problem for them.

I heard about this last "night" but why does "everything" have to be accented in "blue" and in "quotes?" I think you completely missed what he was doing there.....

The prison system is big business and what better inmates to have than a constant flow of non violent stoners? Actually, many states right now are discovering just how huge an albatross the prison system is on state budgets as they desperately try to raise funds, so I don't think your point here is valid at all.

Whether the tests are right or wrong is irrelevant. Jeffress knew that by smoking grass, he risked losing his job. I can accept the first mistake, but the second time around is just plain stupidity. I think this puts it very well, and this is why I could never get on board with the 'oh, it was just marijuana' responses from the first positive test- it suggests that he's either not willing or bright enough to prevent a positive test going forward. Too bad Peavy and Bedard got hurt when they did, or Jeffress might have already been someone else's issue and had value to the Brewers.

Invader, do you have a couple of specific threads in mind? I think it'd be helpful for us to take a look at what may have happened. If you don't want to post it here, you could send a link via PM as well.

You cannot, unless on probation, get arrested for testing positive for a drug. But you can be fired by your employer, etc. So legally you won't get in trouble, but not necessarily otherwise. And please, let's not turn this into a debate about the drug itself here.

Kind of amazing that someone like Farrah can pass away and not be the top headline of the day.....

Despite all the well-publicized weirdness in his later career, a very sad end to an extremely talented person.

but throwing punches at your own teammate I believe he shoved him, not threw punches.

we have 2 players that between will be a significant upgrade at a position of need. IF they pan out. Both guys are still a couple of YEARS away from Milwaukee. It's a virtual certainty that some of the guys coming up will NOT pan out, and all of our prospects, even the very top ones, have significant flaws in some aspect of their game. Some will come up and be as good or better than expected (like Braun and Fielder), while some will come up and disappoint (like Weeks, Parra, and whatever has happened to Hart). I wasn't talking about Braun today, I was talking about Braun in 2007. How is that relevant, then? I'm talking about what we know TODAY. We know to some reasonable degree what Braun is going to do this year--- we had no idea that he was going to have a historic rookie season (in a number of ways). If Braun (or Gamel) were banked on to produce and Braun hadn't panned out, we'd be in some major trouble right now as a franchise. Again, it's another reason to go for it now if we remain in it- we know what we have and where our issues are, we don't know what the future holds, despite your confidence that our prospects will turn out as well as can be. Look, I'm not saying we should trade ALL of our prospects to fill multiple holes in the rotation, just that if they're really lacking the '2' in the necessary 1-2 punch, that guys are out there to help. And if nothing else, there are guys out there that can at the very least upgrade the rotation to fill the hole left by Parra's ineffectiveness (like Doug Davis). If we're determined to stay in it, there is certainly opportunity to fix the issues in the rotation to make this team more likely to succeed this year. you have to pick a side if you're a GM, fence riding gets you exactly where we are today, riding out Hardy and Fielder into FA with a very average rotation. Exactly the point.... don't ride the fence, make some moves and go for it. You're seemingly "hung up on" thinking this team can't be a contender with the rotation the way it is--- again, then go out and make the move or two needed to push them into the playoffs. Why does it have to be 'we've got mediocre pitching now, so we should wait for 2011-2012'? I just don't understand that thinking- go out and make your pitching better than mediocre (which was my point in the first place)! Again I think if you're DM you have to wait and see how things shake out into July, why dump any prospects to bail water on a sinking ship? I think that's the general consensus from those in the thread that aren't posting in a reactionary manner to the last couple weeks of play, so we're on the same page there.

Lets see what the Next 3 weeks bring with a bunch of home games before we decide to sell. Exactly brewmann... if the team is several games back in mid-late July, then it's probably worth re-evaluating. If they're still in the middle of the race, it's a moot discussion.

this may be an "opportunity", but it's a very limited opportunity Again, I really don't see how 1.5 games back in the division and .5 games back in the wildcard halfway through the season can be considered a "limited opportunity". It just doesn't make sense. Do we not have 2 offensive orientated catchers in our system right now? Yes, though Lou Palmisano was an offensive oriented catcher in our system 3 or 4 years ago as well. And while Salome is an offensive oriented catcher, he still has a long way to go before he's even Mike Rivera's level behind the plate. We saw how well the '.750 OPS, limited defensively' catching thing went back in 2007.... How is hoping Gamel works out any different than hoping Braun works out? Um, Braun is already producing at an All-Star caliber level, Gamel is not. Not sure why I have to clarify the difference there...

If this is our best opportunity we're in serious trouble as a franchise. No one is saying that this is our best opportunity, but that this IS an opportunity right now. There are ZERO guarantees that we have an opportunity 2-3 years from now. What if Escobar doesn't hit at a Major League level? What if Gallardo blows out his arm next year, putting our pitching situation in 2010 and 2011 into more turmoil than we're in now? There are no sure bets that we'll have a window in the future, all that is assured is where we are now, which is a whopping 1.5 games out of first, and a half game back in the wildcard, despite a very rough stretch of baseball over the last couple of weeks. How could we have realistic playoff aspirations with Bush, Suppan, Looper as the only established pitchers, needing Parra to take a big step forward, and hoping Yo would last the season after not pitching last year? All the more reason for you to get on board with upgrading our pitching situation at this point then, right? The difference can be made up via significant upgrades at other positions. For example, a serious offensive upgrade at C would more than make up for Fielder's absence. And it's more cost effective to acquire a serious offensive Catcher (arguably the most valuable commodity in trade or FA) than it is to acquire an upgrade at SP? I really don't see how that can work out. Yes, you may be more optimistic about our prospects, but regardless, you're basing your contention hopes on just that- the hope that guys come into the league and are good, productive players. I prefer to look at the current situation, which is based in actual production and a knowledge of what you actually have and actually need while knowing that almost halfway through the season, the Brewers are in contention, need some pitching help to push them over the top, and then going out and filling the holes. At this point, you don't even have an idea of what the holes will be in 2012.

No, the Brewer window isn't now, and we don't need Fielder and Hardy to get the playoffs. The system did not produce enough pitching to go with the hitting talent, and it produced to many of the same type of hitters. Many people are chasing something that isn't there in my opinion. All the more reason they should be trying to trade some of their farm system hitters to fill the holes in the pitching staff, then. Yes, the Brewer window is now. Otherwise, you're left waiting and hoping that the prospects become as good as what you already have now when they leave? Is Escobar going to be as good as Hardy? Taylor Green or Lawrie better than Weeks? Someone at first better than Fielder? Katin better than Hart? The problem is, there's no sure bet that their 2011 team will be as good as the one they have now. All the more reason to try to fix their holes while they're in it this year rather than to hope and pray for a better opportunity down the line.