adambr2

I'm guessing it's because we failed to acquire better options in the off season and/or at the trade deadline. They could go with Woodruff who at least doesn't have control issues. They could have slotted Burnes right into the starting rotation where he had been his entire career rather than putting him in the pen where he's struggled. They could have skipped Freddy's starts with the off days this month. They had other options without watching this crap continue every 5 days.

Why exactly is Freddy Peralta still in the MLB rotation?

2 strikes through 8 pitches for Freddy, not a super promising sign. Although if I'm to believe Gameday Freddy got squeezed on 2 different pitches to Molina.

I'm kind of surprised how long of a leash they've given Peralta with his woes and young age. I can't see him getting another start if he puts up another dud tonight.

It's been a bit of a steady spiral. They went from best record in the NL, to best record in the Central, to top Wild Card, to barely hanging onto a Wild Card spot now. The big losing streak in July really hurt, and they haven't had anything that long since April -- typically even when they've gotten going, they've won 2 or 3 games before dropping one again, just can't seem to sustain a real solid streak. At some point, you're going to need to make a bit of a run here if you're going to play any October games. These are big games -- I won't call this series a must win, but at some point you need to start putting together something to feel good about again. They just seem to be stuck in neutral ever since the Twins/Braves homestand in early July.

No, again, the Rays have already elected to take the cash. https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/reminder-phillies-got-wilson-ramos-almost-nothing

This is my favorite thing about these threads. Nobody ever brings up the bad misses, only the hits. Just as many people wanted Cobb, Lynn, Darvish but we can bring up Arrieta in hindsight and say "hey, David...maybe you shoulda done this!." Nobody mentions Stearns holding off on unloading the farm for Archer, Quintana, Gray which many were clamoring for...only that Hamels has pitched well for 3 games. In fact, you say "in retrospect." I don't understand the point of these exercises. And it overlooks the hits. Many of us questioned the Cain signing -- where would we be without Cain this year? I'd also like to point out that Chacin has really similar numbers to Arrieta for a fraction of the cost, and way, way better numbers than say, Tyler Chatwood, who was a big wish list item here too.

So I guess another way of looking at this is, what did we do wrong in our last window? Or rather, did we not do anything wrong but simply didn't get lucky enough to take it all the way?

Well I believe it's by acquiring a frontline, "ACE" level starting pitcher to not only help us make the playoffs but to win multiple playoff series and get to the World Series. Obviously, I would say the Melvin acquiring CC Sabathia in 2008 and Zack Greinke in 2011 would qualify for this type of move. The Astros acquiring Verlander last year to win it all for the first time ever is another good example of a perfect "time to strike" that obviously paid off. While we didn't reach the World Series with either of Melvin's moves, I think those moves definitely gave us a fighting chance to do so at the time. That time will come most likely for Stearns. Maybe it's this offseason. This year I was still all for feeling it out. Chris Archer just went for 3 former/current prized prospects and he's clearly nowhere near Greinke or CC's stature. I was on board with Verlander thinking it was a unique salary dump type opportunity for a guy that turned it on for 2nd halves later in his career. I would guess 75+% of this board thought it was a bad move for the Brewers (hypothetically) or the Astros. Nobody could've imagined it turning out the way it did for the Astros. I still tend to very much doubt Verlander was ever going to come here. He was completely on the fence on even going to Houston and left it up to Kate Upton, his wife, who green lighted it in the 11th hour. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/kate-upton-helped-justin-verlander-trade-astros-happen-article-1.3896774 Seems highly doubtful to me, given Houston is at least in a more attractive location for most players and is far ahead of where we are as a franchise, that he would have come here.

Swing and a Drive, I don't mean to pick on you specifically because a lot of people feel this way, but some make it sound so easy. Just acquire an ace. If only it were that simple. Verlander had a full no-trade clause last year and basically his choice of destination. What aces changed teams this deadline? There's no one we could have realistically obtained to replace Jimmy -- not at last months deadline anyway.

I think the loss of Nelson for 2018 ended up really being devastating. Chacin has been really the only consistent in our rotation all year which has been basically piecemealed otherwise. Having Nelson at his 2017 level for this season would have been a game changer. Not only would it have pushed back the demands on the rotation, but also eaten up more innings and likely reduced the workload on the pen. I'm not going to say we would have won the division but I'd guess we'd be neck and neck with the Cubs for it with the Wild Card being a very likely fallback. It is what it is, unfortunately. All we can do is hope he is 100% for all of 2019 and able to pitch at his previous level.

How would this work? Wouldn't they need to put Pina on the 60 day to clear a spot on the 40 to select Bandy or Bethancourt? (Or trade for a C)

Probably want to hang onto that Sky Sox jersey, Zach.

Honestly? "Oh well, nothing really lost, it was a good risk to take for almost no cost with a potentially large payout." I get that there was a risk here and these aren't going to payoff every time, but the assumed risk was the only reason he was available for so cheap. Given the cost I think it would have been a good one to roll the dice on. Obviously, so far so good for the Phillies.

What surprised me a bit about the lack of connection to Ramos is that they reportedly were interested in a catcher before the deadline. Now maybe it was just smoke, but if they indeed were (Pittsburgh wasn't a seller at the time), Ramos you think would have made the most sense and it certainly appears they could have acquired him. Unless they were after a really big fish like Realmuto, but I doubt that they were looking at that route.

I was mostly on board with the other rental moves (although losing Medeiros hurt), and I thought we did so well in some areas to improve our team, but I definitely feel like we missed a good opportunity on this one. Considering that the Rays received only cash from the Phils for Ramos I think a prospect along the lines of another potential Rule 5 casualty, such as Bickford, probably would have been enough to deal with us over the cash for the Rays and I think that would have been a worthwhile investment. Our lineup would have been ALOTA better with the addition of Ramos, now add in the fact we coulda had him for little to nothing, that's the part that hurts the most. Catcher I agree remains a need. There might be one last really good option left -- Francisco Cervelli. He's about right up there with Ramos in many aspects IMO. The fact that he's in the NL, and comes with a bit of a heavy price tag, presents a chance for him to make it to us on waivers. The Pirates have been fading -- they're not contending. Like they did last year with Nicasio, they may rather dump some payroll the last couple months here if they can rather than bank on the minuscule chance of making a run. Cervelli would be a huge addition if obtained, and like Ramos, is by no means a poor defensive catcher.

I was mostly on board with the other rental moves (although losing Medeiros hurt), and I thought we did so well in some areas to improve our team, but I definitely feel like we missed a good opportunity on this one. Considering that the Rays received only cash from the Phils for Ramos I think a prospect along the lines of another potential Rule 5 casualty, such as Bickford, probably would have been enough to deal with us over the cash for the Rays and I think that would have been a worthwhile investment.

Lind was traded with 1 year of control and was below replacement level for Seattle in 2016. That trade was a win from the second Peralta set foot on a MLB mound. I agree with some of the points you've made Jopal, but you'd have been a lot better off leaving the Lind deal out of this.

Any player acquired for nothing is being acquired from the so called trash can, otherwise there would be an acquisition cost greater than zero. I thought we already had too many players like this & it reeked of desperation? That's what you got put of this topic? Ok, compared to the catchers we have now would you consider Ramos to be of the trash heap variety? I certainly dont.. The players we usually acquire from the trash heap that are bad are not only bad they are trash. Sogard, Miller, Z.. Ramos is anything but those... so.. Stearns is fine he doesn't need people on message boards to have his back. People keep taking me saying "I am not as high in Stearns as some" as me hating the guy. With as many people that gush all over Stearns, saying I'm not as high on him as some doesn't sound that bad. Heck maybe I like the guy, but just don't have a crush on him... It is ok to be critical of someone and not hate them....lol. This needs to be explained? Yep. Ramos is on pace to be about a 3.5 WAR player this year. His OPS is over .850. He plays a position of obvious weakness on the team. He is also a strong defensive player-- we are not talking about acquiring Johnny Estrada. He was acquired for nothing but cash. Considering what we were willing to give up for rentals at positions that we weren't weak at, I think it's very fair to question and be disappointed that we didn't do enough to acquire Ramos. Ramos is a top 5 player at his position. No one should consider him a trash heap player just because it was a trash heap price tag, to me that's just even more reason to think it was a big missed opportunity.

You've indicated that if Ramos produces at the plate, he would be a clear gain. When in fact you have no idea whether he'd subtract more than he'd add when his work with the pitching staff and behind the plate is factored in. There are also countless other things you don't know about what in terms of what other factors were weighed or what took place before the Rays ultimately sent Ramos to Philadelphia. We all have to base our conclusions on the information we have available, as none of us have access to every bit of information possible. I find your logic to be extremely poor -- if one were to use it, you could not argue for JT Realmuto over Erik Kratz as I can't be absolutely certain he will mesh with our current pitchers well enough to justify the bat upgrade. My opinion was simply that because of our lack of a good catcher plus the low cost and availability of Ramos, coupled with the fact that he's a very good offensive and defensive catcher, that he should have been pursued more aggressively. That's a perfectly reasonable opinion under our circumstances and I have every right to it. In my opinion you are vastly overcomplicating it. I don't think there are very many impartial observers who wouldn't conclude that Wilson Ramos is an upgrade over Manny Pina and makes the 2018 Brewers a better team than they are.

The main benefit for Tampa was unloading a few million, which we could have easily taken on. I've never heard of a "PTBNL or cash considerations" being anything of significance. In almost all cases, if a PTBNL is significant it is known ahead of time. It is going to be a light return. IF it ends up being a player, probably something along the caliber of a Yeison Coca PTBNL. The PTBNL in the Chris Archer trade was Shane Baz. 2017 first round pick and top 100 prospect. And we knew right from the start that the PTBNL in the Archer deal was going to be of significant value. Completely different. It wasn't "PTBNL OR cash". https://sports.yahoo.com/reminder-phillies-got-wilson-ramos-172611044.html Again, the Rays took the cash. So the PTBNL was indeed of no significance.

As you would have noticed if you had read through the thread, we already discussed the caliber of the PTBNL, which as I noted is basically a nothing burger, so yes, we were asking those questions. https://sports.yahoo.com/reminder-phillies-got-wilson-ramos-172611044.html The Rays took the cash, so that answers one of your condescending questions. There is no PTBNL. To answer others: Yes, there would be a significant net gain if Ramos hits. 300, as there would be for us over Pina. No, I cannot prove to you that Ramos would be better with a pitching staff any more than I can prove that Realmuto would be, even though the pitching staff has been awful in August. I don't know if the Brewers pitchers would be better or worse with Ramos, though it would be hard for them to be worse lately. To answer a final one, no, there is really no point in you having a discussion with people about anything if your only response is to belittle those who might disagree or question any possible move that the Brewers did or didn't make.

You guys are being wayyy too hard on Jopal, he brought up a lot of fair points and some of you just laughed him off like a raving lunatic. I don't know if I agree with the White Sox model comparison, but put together a decent team and hope to get hot and lucky, seems to be at least partially true. "They're not in a rebuild" ...well that's true, is it not? I think the Cain signing and Yelich trade, while still long-term deals, were certainly made with 2018 partially in mind. I would completely agree about Hiura and Ray being the only elite prospects in the system and I would probably say only Hiura. Absolutely no question the Cubs had better and more blue chip prospects in their system when they were in the midst of their rebuild, and they traded a couple more away. Yes, we should be drafting in the low 20s in the near future which does make it more difficult to acquire elite talent in the draft. Their long-term failure to develop front line pitching is what has held them back from taking that next step-- well of course it has. Does anyone honestly disagree with that? I have no idea what Jopal said to elicit the reaction from some people that it did.

The main benefit for Tampa was unloading a few million, which we could have easily taken on. I've never heard of a "PTBNL or cash considerations" being anything of significance. In almost all cases, if a PTBNL is significant it is known ahead of time. It is going to be a light return. IF it ends up being a player, probably something along the caliber of a Yeison Coca PTBNL.

Ramos went 3 for 4 with 3 RBI in his debut with Philly tonight in a 7-4 win over Boston. I really really wish we had been a little more aggressive here. It cost the Phillies basically nothing and he's one of the best catchers in baseball. It was a low priced lottery ticket with a big potential payoff with our catcher position being a black hole. A 2 week wait after the deadline would have been more than worth it.